[micky]

I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

[chaniarts[_3_]]

On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

my corvette convertible glass window came unattached from the top, which
is some kind of plastic coated fabric cloth.

i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
to reposition it.

[Steve W.[_2_]]

chaniarts wrote:
On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

Most of these use the PVB that is sandwiched between the two panes of
glass that make up the window.
It is then bonded to the top. The catch is that it doesn't really hold
up that well exposed to air/cleaners/acid rain and such.



The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

If I was doing the repair I would probably make up a frame out of
stainless that would clamp the top material and a lip that the glass
could be bonded to with urethane.

--
Steve W.

[jim beam]

On 10/24/2011 01:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

3m make a range of appropriate adhesives. online sellers like summit
have some of the commonly used automotive ones to browse.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , Steve W. wrote:
If I was doing the repair I would probably make up a frame out of
stainless that would clamp the top material and a lip that the glass
could be bonded to with urethane.

RTV will stick to glass very well, and will stick to many "rubber" materials.

The urethanes are stronger (mostly because RTV has poor shear strength) but
don't stick as well to glass. Still, I'd try the 3M Weatherstripping Adhesive
(the yellow stuff) experimentally to see.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[jim beam]

On 10/24/2011 05:14 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In , Steve wrote:
If I was doing the repair I would probably make up a frame out of
stainless that would clamp the top material and a lip that the glass
could be bonded to with urethane.

RTV will stick to glass very well, and will stick to many "rubber" materials.

doesn't stick to natural rubbers very well. organics and silanes don't
play well without an organo-silane in the mix!



The urethanes are stronger (mostly because RTV has poor shear strength) but
don't stick as well to glass. Still, I'd try the 3M Weatherstripping Adhesive
(the yellow stuff) experimentally to see.
--scott



--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[Tony Hwang]

micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.
Hi,
Goop has a glue called stick anything to anything something like that.
Can be found at auto parts shop. I'd try that.

[Bob F]

micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Superglue works very good on rubber, so maybe a superglue designed for glass and
rubber.

[micky]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:04:23 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:



micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.
Hi,
Goop has a glue called stick anything to anything something like that.
Can be found at auto parts shop. I'd try that.

I'm wary about things that claim to glue anything,. but I will look
for it anyhow.

Thanks and thanks to everyone.

Still open to other suggestions.

[micky]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:58 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:

On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

my corvette convertible glass window came unattached from the top, which
is some kind of plastic coated fabric cloth.

i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
to reposition it.

Well, based on your experience and what you say and what I've been
reading now, it sounds pretty good.

Does it have a liner on both sides, so I can cut it to fit without it
getting stuck on the scissors? And so I can put it on with less
trouble? (I would make my own liner for the unlined side, but I
guess it would stick to the tape!)

And is there any way I can get some without spending 72 dollars?
Although I will if I have to.

Now much did you buy, and if it wasn't that much, where did you buy
it? Maybe they only sell one kind, which would make it easy for me.

Also, there seems to be at least 15 kinds. Black and clear (and
white), different thicknesses, conformable, and bond specific
surfaces.
http://www.packagingtapedepot.com/3m...hbondtape.aspx
Do you know what exactly you used? I'm sorry I'm such a pain.
If it weren't so expensive, I wouldn't ask so many questions.

3M has this page:
http://services.shop3m.com/search/?k...952-8TRTQKPDT3
I clicked on sort by price, but it didnt' sort by price. It had a
few reolls for under 50 dollars. Also it shows non-tapes, but I
couldn't get rid of them.

Googling, I find a lot of people trying to find small amounts, and
other people recommending 3M molding tape, but you have to let it set
overnight, without any moving. I doubt I can do that. .



The 72 dollar roll is narrow too. 1/4 inch? I'd rather have a shorter
roll of wider stuff. If I run two narrow strips side by side, and
they don't match perfectly, do you think it will be very visible
(very? at all?) through the glass (I won't buy white) ?


Thanks a lotl

P.S. Office Depot has it, but it costs between $700 and $2500!!

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:27:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:58 -0700, chaniarts

my corvette convertible glass window came unattached from the top, which
is some kind of plastic coated fabric cloth.

i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
to reposition it.

Well, based on your experience and what you say and what I've been
reading now, it sounds pretty good.

Does it have a liner on both sides, so I can cut it to fit without it
getting stuck on the scissors? And so I can put it on with less
trouble? (I would make my own liner for the unlined side, but I
guess it would stick to the tape!)

And is there any way I can get some without spending 72 dollars?
Although I will if I have to.

Now much did you buy, and if it wasn't that much, where did you buy
it? Maybe they only sell one kind, which would make it easy for me.

Also, there seems to be at least 15 kinds. Black and clear (and
white), different thicknesses, conformable, and bond specific
surfaces.
http://www.packagingtapedepot.com/3m...hbondtape.aspx

BTW, all the tapes on this page have model numbers starting with 49.
49nn, that is. But I see some other tapes marked 9460PC that are
called VHB transfer tape, whatever that is.

Some that are called acrylic foam, some of which are marked clear!


I'm makiung progress on ebay so please don't waste your time googling,
but if you know the answers to my questions, that would help a lot.

Thanks a lot.


P.S. A lot say "[PRICE is per ROLL]" because I'm sure people think
they'll get several rolls for the price. ;-)


Do you know what exactly you used? I'm sorry I'm such a pain.
If it weren't so expensive, I wouldn't ask so many questions.

3M has this page:
http://services.shop3m.com/search/?k...952-8TRTQKPDT3
I clicked on sort by price, but it didnt' sort by price. It had a
few reolls for under 50 dollars. Also it shows non-tapes, but I
couldn't get rid of them.

Googling, I find a lot of people trying to find small amounts, and
other people recommending 3M molding tape, but you have to let it set
overnight, without any moving. I doubt I can do that. .



The 72 dollar roll is narrow too. 1/4 inch? I'd rather have a shorter
roll of wider stuff. If I run two narrow strips side by side, and
they don't match perfectly, do you think it will be very visible
(very? at all?) through the glass (I won't buy white) ?


Thanks a lotl

P.S. Office Depot has it, but it costs between $700 and $2500!!

[---MIKE---]

I would try U-Glue - about $10 from Amazon. Walmart had it for a while.

---MIKE---

In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44� 15' N - Elevation 1580')

[chaniarts[_3_]]

On 10/24/2011 10:42 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:13:58 -0700, chaniarts
wrote:

On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

my corvette convertible glass window came unattached from the top, which
is some kind of plastic coated fabric cloth.

i used 3m VHB tape. it comes in a roll, is double sided, and very
sticky. if you put it somewhere, it will NOT be coming off or allow you
to reposition it.

Well, based on your experience and what you say and what I've been
reading now, it sounds pretty good.

it's been 4 years now, in phx, so has a lot of heat/sunlight but not
very much rain. it's still 100% stuck, and waterproof.

Does it have a liner on both sides, so I can cut it to fit without it
getting stuck on the scissors? And so I can put it on with less
trouble? (I would make my own liner for the unlined side, but I
guess it would stick to the tape!)

it has a wax paper type on both sides. you peel off one side, lay it in
place, peel off the other side, and touch the 2nd surface. press down a
bit, and it's stuck. no need for clamping or any great pressure.

And is there any way I can get some without spending 72 dollars?
Although I will if I have to.

i use it in my glass work, so had some although i'm out currently. i use
it to attach glass art pieces to backing (metal, granite, etc) displays.

Now much did you buy, and if it wasn't that much, where did you buy
it? Maybe they only sell one kind, which would make it easy for me.

i used
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-17457/3M-VHB-Tapes/3M-4622-VHB-Double-Sided-Foam-Tape-1-2-x-36-yards

you probably don't need 36 yards though. you could always sell the rest
of the roll on ebay per foot and make back more than it cost. lots of
people need this but don't want a whole roll.

you might try calling a car window repair shop, or if near a large body
of water, a place that repairs boats. it's used to hold boat and car
windshields in in some places.

Also, there seems to be at least 15 kinds. Black and clear (and
white), different thicknesses, conformable, and bond specific
surfaces.
http://www.packagingtapedepot.com/3m...hbondtape.aspx
Do you know what exactly you used? I'm sorry I'm such a pain.
If it weren't so expensive, I wouldn't ask so many questions.

3M has this page:
http://services.shop3m.com/search/?k...952-8TRTQKPDT3
I clicked on sort by price, but it didnt' sort by price. It had a
few reolls for under 50 dollars. Also it shows non-tapes, but I
couldn't get rid of them.

Googling, I find a lot of people trying to find small amounts, and
other people recommending 3M molding tape, but you have to let it set
overnight, without any moving. I doubt I can do that. .



The 72 dollar roll is narrow too. 1/4 inch? I'd rather have a shorter
roll of wider stuff. If I run two narrow strips side by side, and
they don't match perfectly, do you think it will be very visible
(very? at all?) through the glass (I won't buy white) ?


Thanks a lotl

P.S. Office Depot has it, but it costs between $700 and $2500!!

[Ron]

On Oct 25, 1:27*am, micky wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:04:23 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:











micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. * What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? *If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.

My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. * The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. * Maybe they used heat
alone?? *It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. * Good idea?

Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. * I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. * *Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. * I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.
Hi,
Goop has a glue called stick anything to anything something like that.
Can be found at auto parts shop. I'd try that.

I'm wary about things that claim to glue anything,. but I will look
for it *anyhow.

Thanks and thanks to everyone.

Still open to other suggestions.

I just went through this with a Miata. Goop Automotive does NOT work.
I also tried GE Silicone II and Shoe Goo. No go.

I saw 3M VHB tape mentioned through Google searches, but it was only
recommended. I couldn't find one site were someone had actually tried
it. I didn't want to take a chance on a $75.00 roll of tape that I
would probably never use again so I bit the bullet and had the top
replaced.

I found someone that does upholstery work out of their home (had to
close his shop because of the overhead) and got it replaced for
$750.00 cash. All of the other quotes were from $925.00 to $1,300.

Good luck.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27*am, micky wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:04:23 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:











micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. * What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? *If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.

My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. * The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. * Maybe they used heat
alone?? *It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. * Good idea?

Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. * I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. * *Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. * I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.
Hi,
Goop has a glue called stick anything to anything something like that.
Can be found at auto parts shop. I'd try that.

I'm wary about things that claim to glue anything,. but I will look
for it *anyhow.

Thanks and thanks to everyone.

Still open to other suggestions.

I just went through this with a Miata. Goop Automotive does NOT work.

Good to know.

I also tried GE Silicone II

I think I once tried that.

and Shoe Goo. No go.

I've used that on my shoes.

The stress on the window is pretty high, and they are pretty heavy
too.

I saw 3M VHB tape mentioned through Google searches, but it was only
recommended. I couldn't find one site were someone had actually tried
it. I didn't want to take a chance on a $75.00 roll of tape that I
would probably never use again

I know exactly how you feel, but I've got Chaniarts. I'll try to
post in about a year to let you all know how it works for me.

so I bit the bullet and had the top
replaced.

I found someone that does upholstery work out of their home (had to
close his shop because of the overhead) and got it replaced for
$750.00 cash. All of the other quotes were from $925.00 to $1,300.

I only asked one shop so far for a pirce and it was 650 for the rear
window/curtain, and 1710 for the whole thing. a 2000 Toyota Solara.
Maybe Baltimore is in the high rent district.

Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.

[jim beam]

On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27�am, wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.




try this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/



--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[micky]

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:11:24 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

chaniarts wrote:
On 10/24/2011 1:03 PM, micky wrote:
I need to glue glass to neoprene or maybe it is is some other black,
glossy, flexible, rubber-looking substance. What glue etc. should I
buy?

Is it worth trying to rough up the glass? If so, should I use
sandpaper, emery paper, etc?

I don't know yet if I can clamp the two things together.


My new-to-me 2000 Toyota Solara Convertible all of a sudden came
unglued at the top of the rear window. The window is glass and shows
no sign of any adhesive having been used. Maybe they used heat
alone?? It's in the 60's here for a few more days, and I have a heat
gun if you think that will help.

Most of these use the PVB that is sandwiched between the two panes of
glass that make up the window.
It is then bonded to the top. The catch is that it doesn't really hold
up that well exposed to air/cleaners/acid rain and such.

This might be the original window, 11 years old. I've found that tops
last me about 7 years and windows last through 2 tops. )The top still
looks very good,)

My own experience has been that none of the 3 convertible windows I've
had break had iiuc an inner layer. That is, all three shatttered
into many pieces about the size of a raisin. The first was a 65
Pontiac that got broken during the middle of the day, maybe by kids
playing ball. The pieces were all over the lower boot. Then I had a
73 Buick with a scissors top and a guy was jabbering at me and the top
was screwed up, the sides were out of sync, and I broke the window
myself lowering the top**, and the third came from an 88 LeBaron, I
had a new top and window put on and I had him save me the window, so I
coudl see for myself how hard they are.

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

***I think maybe my home and storm windows flex too. I'm not sure. No
thermopane (except the sliding doors), separate windows, and I'm
pretty sure one bends, which would mean they all do.


**Scissors tops were only used on Buicks and Cadillacs I think (and
Chevys or Olds?), from '73 to 76, when GM thought that the NTSB was
going to require roofs to be strong enough to support the car. They
were a terrible design and the NTSB never requried that. So thiis is
not an issue many people face.

Thanks.



The other piece would be under tension if I glued it just where it
was, but if I leave 1/2" not glued, it will reach.

Alternatively, I could maybe find some thick black plastic sheeting
and glue one end to the window and the other end to the neoprene.
Which is better?

Maybe I can put a couple pillows on top of the rear seat, and lay a
2x4 (or 1x6 which I would have to buy if you think it's worth it) on
top of the pillows, and gently lower the top so that the neoprene/
glass rests on the wood board, and then put weights on top of the
glass while it sets. Good idea?


Every other convertible I've had had a vinyl "lower boot" under the
rear window, which safely collected the water. I pioneered putting a
drain hose in the boot, when I r ealized leaks could not be avoided.
Years later, the '84 Lebaron came with drain hoses factory installed,
and the 88 and 95 had them also. Unfortunately, the lower well in
this car isn't vinyl but is that fuzzy-covered cardboard, and it won't
do well if it gets wet, plus it will leak into the areas below it. I
think Toyota didn't plan ahead.

Thanks.

If I was doing the repair I would probably make up a frame out of
stainless that would clamp the top material and a lip that the glass
could be bonded to with urethane.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:29:27 -0700, jim beam wrote:

On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27?am, wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.




try this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/

Thanks.

[Ron]

On Oct 25, 9:22*pm, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

I found someone that does upholstery work out of their home (had to
close his shop because of the overhead) and got it replaced for
$750.00 cash. All of the other quotes were from $925.00 to $1,300.

I only asked one shop so far for a pirce and it was 650 for the rear
window/curtain, and 1710 for the whole thing. * a 2000 Toyota Solara.
Maybe Baltimore is in the high rent district.

Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

I'm in Orlando. I called a LOT of places before I found the guy that I
used. The top on your car is a lot bigger, so that might be one reason
for the higher price (plus you've only called one place). Also, a
cloth top is more expensive than a vinyl one. I went with vinyl.

While I was researching a possible fix for my top I didn't see any
mention of the 3M tape being UV resistant. Since I live in FL that is
another reason that I didn't buy it.

[Ron]

On Oct 25, 9:29*pm, jim beam wrote:
On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27 am, *wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.

try this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/

That will not stick to glass.

[Ron]

micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.


--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22*pm, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

I found someone that does upholstery work out of their home (had to
close his shop because of the overhead) and got it replaced for
$750.00 cash. All of the other quotes were from $925.00 to $1,300.

I only asked one shop so far for a pirce and it was 650 for the rear
window/curtain, and 1710 for the whole thing. * a 2000 Toyota Solara.
Maybe Baltimore is in the high rent district.

Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

I'm in Orlando.

Good to know.

I called a LOT of places before I found the guy that I
used. The top on your car is a lot bigger, so that might be one reason
for the higher price (plus you've only called one place). Also, a
cloth top is more expensive than a vinyl one. I went with vinyl.

I always had vinyl before, but I have no imagination so since this car
came with canvas, that's probably what I'll get, eventually.

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

While I was researching a possible fix for my top I didn't see any
mention of the 3M tape being UV resistant. Since I live in FL that is
another reason that I didn't buy it.

I've been to Florida. You have a lot more sun than we do.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:32:43 -0400, Ron wrote:

micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.

And that's good, since I don't have to worry about every little thing
breaking it. I used to fear that at first.

[jim beam]

On 10/25/2011 07:18 PM, Ron wrote:
On Oct 25, 9:29�pm, jim wrote:
On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27 am, �wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.

try this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/

That will not stick to glass.

it's not listed for that application, yet if you get it on glass, you
have a devil of a job getting it off. so i guess we're down to whether
or not we're actually speaking from experience rather than reading from
a non-manufacturer website, and the definitions of the word "stick".


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[jim beam]

On 10/25/2011 07:32 PM, Ron wrote:
micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.

ever seen the little safety hammers by bus and train windows? they
weigh less than 1lb, but will smash tempered glass with ease because
they have a hardened point that will initiate cracking, and with
tempered glass, that crack instantly progresses into the thousands of
small pieces that the glass then becomes.

if you have to smash tempered glass, get a piece of broken spark plug
insulator, place that on the glass sharp side down, then strike that
with a hammer. works every time.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[Ron]

micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, micky wrote:

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

That's IF the 3M tape will work. You would think if there was a way to
repair the glass on these tops when they fail that the top/upholstery
shops would repair them. EVERY person that I spoke to told me the same
thing, "the glass and top is laminated together when they are made, and
we have no way to do that". There is at least one company now that is
making tops and giving a lifetime warranty on the glass coming loose. It
is a company called UltraMaxx http://www.gahh.com/ultramaxx.php.

--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

[Ron]

jim beam wrote:
On 10/25/2011 07:18 PM, Ron wrote:
On Oct 25, 9:29�pm, jim wrote:
On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27 am, �wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.

try this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/

That will not stick to glass.

it's not listed for that application, yet if you get it on glass, you
have a devil of a job getting it off. so i guess we're down to whether
or not we're actually speaking from experience rather than reading from
a non-manufacturer website, and the definitions of the word "stick".



It will not stay stuck to glass. When I was in the glass business
people (DIYers) would try to reglue door glasses that had come loose
from the channel with it.

--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

[Steve W.[_2_]]

Ron wrote:
micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.



And actually MUCH easier to destroy the whole piece at once.
Just chip the edge or create a rapid high stress point on the surface.

The high stress point has to be a POINT though, even a hammer head
diffuses the impact enough.

Use a sharp pointed hammer though and it will take out the glass with a
mild tap.

We use glass hammers, spring punches and even car antennas to take out
glass during extrication.

For laminated it's harder, especially some of the new structural support
glass. With that a sawzall and a glass blade work well. Evan the glass
master is hard to work with on that stuff.

--
Steve W.

[Ron]

jim beam wrote:
On 10/25/2011 07:32 PM, Ron wrote:
micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.

ever seen the little safety hammers by bus and train windows? they
weigh less than 1lb, but will smash tempered glass with ease because
they have a hardened point that will initiate cracking, and with
tempered glass, that crack instantly progresses into the thousands of
small pieces that the glass then becomes.

if you have to smash tempered glass, get a piece of broken spark plug
insulator, place that on the glass sharp side down, then strike that
with a hammer. works every time.



A piece of spark plug ceramic itself will break a piece of tempered
glass for some strange reason. Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner. And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:23:44 -0400, Ron wrote:

micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT), Ron
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, micky wrote:

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

That's IF the 3M tape will work.

That's right. If it doesn't work, it will last me even longer.

You would think if there was a way to
repair the glass on these tops when they fail that the top/upholstery
shops would repair them. EVERY person that I spoke to told me the same
thing, "the glass and top is laminated together when they are made, and
we have no way to do that".

Shops don't want to do a job that might fail soon, because even if you
warn customers, a lot of them will complain. They prefer to do the
job the way they know will work.

When the pipe broke off from my cat. converter, every muffler shop I
went to in my n'hood wanted to install a new cat. No one would weld
the pipe back on. So I went half way to t he center of town, to a
lower middle class n'hood, or upper lower class. (It's hard to tell
because the commercial street looks a bit run down, but the street
with the houses a block away looks nice.) and the first muffler shop I
went to was happy to weld it for me, put two beads all around the
pipe, and charged me iirc 30 dollars. I gave him 40. His repair
lasted for years, until I got rid of the car for other reasons.

So that doesn't mean this tape will work, but that shops don't want to
do it doesn't mean it won't.

There is at least one company now that is
making tops and giving a lifetime warranty on the glass coming loose. It
is a company called UltraMaxx http://www.gahh.com/ultramaxx.php.

I'll bear this brand in mind, in case I need a window. (I had a back
up plan in mind if this tape doesn't work on my car (maybe the window
is taller and heavier than for a Corvette) but now that I find the
window bumps into the rear seat back, my back up plan isn't as likely
to work.

BTW, it says that with glass windows, sewing was out of the question.
At the start, sure, but by now, can't they make a window with a row of
holes around the perimeter?. Then sew the canvas on. That would take
the strain and some lightwieght glue could glue some fabric over the
stitches.

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:34:41 -0400, Ron wrote:



A piece of spark plug ceramic itself will break a piece of tempered
glass for some strange reason. Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner. And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

I didn't believe spring-loaded center punches would work in metal,
until I tried one.
--
Grab your gun and bring the cat in.

[jim beam]

On 10/25/2011 08:34 PM, Ron wrote:
jim beam wrote:
On 10/25/2011 07:32 PM, Ron wrote:
micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.

ever seen the little safety hammers by bus and train windows? they
weigh less than 1lb, but will smash tempered glass with ease because
they have a hardened point that will initiate cracking, and with
tempered glass, that crack instantly progresses into the thousands of
small pieces that the glass then becomes.

if you have to smash tempered glass, get a piece of broken spark plug
insulator, place that on the glass sharp side down, then strike that
with a hammer. works every time.



A piece of spark plug ceramic itself will break a piece of tempered
glass for some strange reason.

it's not strange, it's just outside most people's experience. it's all
perfectly normal if you're a fracture mechanics and stress
concentrations geek.


Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner.

edge effects. glass surfaces are flawed. flaws can propagate into
cracks. tempered glass works by using tensile stress within the core to
compress surface flaws so they don't easily progress into cracks. but
you can't compress an edge because one of your three dimensions is
missing. on a corner, you're pretty much removing two of your three
dimensions. so, no compression means easy crack propagation.


And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

often, yes. harder to get wrong if an operator is panicking.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[jim beam]

On 10/25/2011 08:28 PM, Ron wrote:
jim beam wrote:
On 10/25/2011 07:18 PM, Ron wrote:
On Oct 25, 9:29�pm, jim wrote:
On 10/25/2011 06:22 PM, micky wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 1:27 am, �wrote:
snip
Where do you liive that even your high prices are so much cheaper?

Good luck.

Thanks.

try this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TRM-8008/

That will not stick to glass.

it's not listed for that application, yet if you get it on glass, you
have a devil of a job getting it off. so i guess we're down to whether
or not we're actually speaking from experience rather than reading
from a non-manufacturer website, and the definitions of the word "stick".



It will not stay stuck to glass. When I was in the glass business people
(DIYers) would try to reglue door glasses that had come loose from the
channel with it.


i've found it to work well enough on rubbers, the op's application. but
you're right, it wouldn't be great on solids like window hinges.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[chaniarts[_3_]]

On 10/25/2011 9:09 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:23:44 -0400, wrote:

micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, wrote:

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

That's IF the 3M tape will work.

That's right. If it doesn't work, it will last me even longer.

You would think if there was a way to
repair the glass on these tops when they fail that the top/upholstery
shops would repair them. EVERY person that I spoke to told me the same
thing, "the glass and top is laminated together when they are made, and
we have no way to do that".

Shops don't want to do a job that might fail soon, because even if you
warn customers, a lot of them will complain. They prefer to do the
job the way they know will work.

When the pipe broke off from my cat. converter, every muffler shop I
went to in my n'hood wanted to install a new cat. No one would weld
the pipe back on. So I went half way to t he center of town, to a
lower middle class n'hood, or upper lower class. (It's hard to tell
because the commercial street looks a bit run down, but the street
with the houses a block away looks nice.) and the first muffler shop I
went to was happy to weld it for me, put two beads all around the
pipe, and charged me iirc 30 dollars. I gave him 40. His repair
lasted for years, until I got rid of the car for other reasons.

So that doesn't mean this tape will work, but that shops don't want to
do it doesn't mean it won't.

There is at least one company now that is
making tops and giving a lifetime warranty on the glass coming loose. It
is a company called UltraMaxx http://www.gahh.com/ultramaxx.php.

I'll bear this brand in mind, in case I need a window. (I had a back
up plan in mind if this tape doesn't work on my car (maybe the window
is taller and heavier than for a Corvette) but now that I find the
window bumps into the rear seat back, my back up plan isn't as likely
to work.

BTW, it says that with glass windows, sewing was out of the question.
At the start, sure, but by now, can't they make a window with a row of
holes around the perimeter?. Then sew the canvas on. That would take
the strain and some lightwieght glue could glue some fabric over the
stitches.

if it was tempered (and a previous post said it was), holes would be a
stress point and would shatter pretty easily during normal service if
anything hit it around that edge. you'd need to have rubber inserts on
the holes to prevent that.

[jim beam]

On 10/26/2011 07:59 AM, chaniarts wrote:
On 10/25/2011 9:09 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:23:44 -0400, wrote:

micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, wrote:

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

That's IF the 3M tape will work.

That's right. If it doesn't work, it will last me even longer.

You would think if there was a way to
repair the glass on these tops when they fail that the top/upholstery
shops would repair them. EVERY person that I spoke to told me the same
thing, "the glass and top is laminated together when they are made, and
we have no way to do that".

Shops don't want to do a job that might fail soon, because even if you
warn customers, a lot of them will complain. They prefer to do the
job the way they know will work.

When the pipe broke off from my cat. converter, every muffler shop I
went to in my n'hood wanted to install a new cat. No one would weld
the pipe back on. So I went half way to t he center of town, to a
lower middle class n'hood, or upper lower class. (It's hard to tell
because the commercial street looks a bit run down, but the street
with the houses a block away looks nice.) and the first muffler shop I
went to was happy to weld it for me, put two beads all around the
pipe, and charged me iirc 30 dollars. I gave him 40. His repair
lasted for years, until I got rid of the car for other reasons.

So that doesn't mean this tape will work, but that shops don't want to
do it doesn't mean it won't.

There is at least one company now that is
making tops and giving a lifetime warranty on the glass coming loose. It
is a company called UltraMaxx http://www.gahh.com/ultramaxx.php.

I'll bear this brand in mind, in case I need a window. (I had a back
up plan in mind if this tape doesn't work on my car (maybe the window
is taller and heavier than for a Corvette) but now that I find the
window bumps into the rear seat back, my back up plan isn't as likely
to work.

BTW, it says that with glass windows, sewing was out of the question.
At the start, sure, but by now, can't they make a window with a row of
holes around the perimeter?. Then sew the canvas on. That would take
the strain and some lightwieght glue could glue some fabric over the
stitches.

if it was tempered (and a previous post said it was), holes would be a
stress point and would shatter pretty easily during normal service if
anything hit it around that edge. you'd need to have rubber inserts on
the holes to prevent that.

rubber is used to prevent stress concentrations from the fastener, not
so much that they themselves are the problem.

now, the holes /can/ be a problem, but there are rule as to drilling
method, size and placement that pretty much remove risk. i forget the
numbers now, but as you say, you have to keep certain distances from
edges, use holes above a certain size relative to glass thickness, make
sure hole edges are smooth and that they don't get overly stressed.
done right, you'll not notice any difference in service strength.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[micky]

On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:

On 10/25/2011 08:34 PM, Ron wrote:
......
Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner.

edge effects. glass surfaces are flawed. flaws can propagate into
cracks. tempered glass works by using tensile stress within the core to
compress surface flaws so they don't easily progress into cracks. but
you can't compress an edge because one of your three dimensions is
missing. on a corner, you're pretty much removing two of your three
dimensions. so, no compression means easy crack propagation.

So I gather, prior to getting the tape I need, if I continue to let
my window go thump when the top edge of the window passes the top rear
edge of the rear seat, I have a greater risk than normal, a pretty
high risk, of the window breaking. ??


When the Lebaron separated from the curtain, it was at the bottom of
the window and the top went down and up as usual. In fact, after
trying 2 or 3 times, I eventually realized I didn't even have to fix
it, because the rain ran down the window, into the vinyl lower boot,
and out the drains.


And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

often, yes. harder to get wrong if an operator is panicking.

[Jim Yanik]

jim beam wrote in :

On 10/25/2011 07:32 PM, Ron wrote:
micky wrote:

First, they all flex some, amazingly since they are glass***. I
stsood the window in a garbage can and whacked it about 10 times, each
time harder, until finally I used a hammer iirc and wacked it really
hard and it finally borke. Like the other two, all the pieces
separated. I don't think they were even very sharp, some how.

It's tempered glass and it's 7 times stronger than non-tempered glass.

it's tempered glass because in a collision,it breaks up into little pieces
instead of dangerous big shards that will cut you.

ever seen the little safety hammers by bus and train windows? they
weigh less than 1lb, but will smash tempered glass with ease because
they have a hardened point that will initiate cracking, and with
tempered glass, that crack instantly progresses into the thousands of
small pieces that the glass then becomes.

if you have to smash tempered glass, get a piece of broken spark plug
insulator, place that on the glass sharp side down, then strike that
with a hammer. works every time.



a spark plug is what thieves use for their smash-n-grabs.
or a spring-loaded centerpunch.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[chaniarts[_3_]]

On 10/26/2011 8:25 AM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:35:22 -0700, jim wrote:

On 10/25/2011 08:34 PM, Ron wrote:
.....
Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner.

edge effects. glass surfaces are flawed. flaws can propagate into
cracks. tempered glass works by using tensile stress within the core to
compress surface flaws so they don't easily progress into cracks. but
you can't compress an edge because one of your three dimensions is
missing. on a corner, you're pretty much removing two of your three
dimensions. so, no compression means easy crack propagation.

So I gather, prior to getting the tape I need, if I continue to let
my window go thump when the top edge of the window passes the top rear
edge of the rear seat, I have a greater risk than normal, a pretty
high risk, of the window breaking. ??

you can hit a tempered window with a baseball bat numerous times, and it
won't usually break. the hitting is not cumulative. you can scratch it
with a nail and it will shatter the first time.

tempered glass is formed by cooling the outside faster than the inside,
putting the outside in tension and the inside in compression. glass is
very strong in compression, very weak in tension. the differing force is
released during a scratch on the surface or edge.

it's great fun to set off a tempered sheet of glass, but you'd be
picking up glass chunks for quite a while. i use shattered tempered
glass to build art pieces.


When the Lebaron separated from the curtain, it was at the bottom of
the window and the top went down and up as usual. In fact, after
trying 2 or 3 times, I eventually realized I didn't even have to fix
it, because the rain ran down the window, into the vinyl lower boot,
and out the drains.


And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

often, yes. harder to get wrong if an operator is panicking.

[jim beam]

On 10/26/2011 08:42 AM, chaniarts wrote:
On 10/26/2011 8:25 AM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:35:22 -0700, jim wrote:

On 10/25/2011 08:34 PM, Ron wrote:
.....
Tempered glass will break easily if you
tap it on the edge...especially the corner.

edge effects. glass surfaces are flawed. flaws can propagate into
cracks. tempered glass works by using tensile stress within the core to
compress surface flaws so they don't easily progress into cracks. but
you can't compress an edge because one of your three dimensions is
missing. on a corner, you're pretty much removing two of your three
dimensions. so, no compression means easy crack propagation.

So I gather, prior to getting the tape I need, if I continue to let
my window go thump when the top edge of the window passes the top rear
edge of the rear seat, I have a greater risk than normal, a pretty
high risk, of the window breaking. ??

you can hit a tempered window with a baseball bat numerous times, and it
won't usually break. the hitting is not cumulative. you can scratch it
with a nail and it will shatter the first time.

tempered glass is formed by cooling the outside faster than the inside,
putting the outside in tension and the inside in compression.

other way around - the core is in tension, outside in compression.


glass is
very strong in compression, very weak in tension.

yup. and tempered glass is strong because the tensioned core is not at
the surface where the flaws are.


the differing force is
released during a scratch on the surface or edge.

it's the tension force. if you introduce a flaw deep enough that it
reaches the core, then it goes.



it's great fun to set off a tempered sheet of glass, but you'd be
picking up glass chunks for quite a while. i use shattered tempered
glass to build art pieces.

have you ever played with "prince rupert's drops"?




When the Lebaron separated from the curtain, it was at the bottom of
the window and the top went down and up as usual. In fact, after
trying 2 or 3 times, I eventually realized I didn't even have to fix
it, because the rain ran down the window, into the vinyl lower boot,
and out the drains.


And I believe those hammers
were phased out by spring loaded center punches.

often, yes. harder to get wrong if an operator is panicking.




--
nomina rutrum rutrum

[Ron]

On Oct 26, 11:20*am, jim beam wrote:
On 10/26/2011 07:59 AM, chaniarts wrote:









On 10/25/2011 9:09 PM, micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:23:44 -0400, wrote:

micky wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:16:18 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Oct 25, 9:22 pm, wrote:

I'll call more when the t ime comes. Since she was on the phone
already, I just wanted to be reassured t hat 100 dollars for tape is
still a good deal. (and tonight I found only 36 yards instead of 72.

I figure if a rear window starts to fail at 11 years, than 36 yards at
one yard per car will last me 393 years.

That's IF the 3M tape will work.

That's right. If it doesn't work, it will last me even longer.

You would think if there was a way to
repair the glass on these tops when they fail that the top/upholstery
shops would repair them. EVERY person that I spoke to told me the same
thing, "the glass and top is laminated together when they are made, and
we have no way to do that".

Shops don't want to do a job that might fail soon, because even if you
warn customers, a lot of them will complain. They prefer to do the
job the way they know will work.

When the pipe broke off from my cat. converter, every muffler shop I
went to in my n'hood wanted to install a new cat. No one would weld
the pipe back on. So I went half way to t he center of town, to a
lower middle class n'hood, or upper lower class. (It's hard to tell
because the commercial street looks a bit run down, but the street
with the houses a block away looks nice.) and the first muffler shop I
went to was happy to weld it for me, put two beads all around the
pipe, and charged me iirc 30 dollars. I gave him 40. His repair
lasted for years, until I got rid of the car for other reasons.

So that doesn't mean this tape will work, but that shops don't want to
do it doesn't mean it won't.

There is at least one company now that is
making tops and giving a lifetime warranty on the glass coming loose. It
is a company called UltraMaxxhttp://www.gahh.com/ultramaxx.php.

I'll bear this brand in mind, in case I need a window. (I had a back
up plan in mind if this tape doesn't work on my car (maybe the window
is taller and heavier than for a Corvette) but now that I find the
window bumps into the rear seat back, my back up plan isn't as likely
to work.

BTW, it says that with glass windows, sewing was out of the question.
At the start, sure, but by now, can't they make a window with a row of
holes around the perimeter?. Then sew the canvas on. That would take
the strain and some lightwieght glue could glue some fabric over the
stitches.

if it was tempered (and a previous post said it was), holes would be a
stress point and would shatter pretty easily during normal service if
anything hit it around that edge. you'd need to have rubber inserts on
the holes to prevent that.

rubber is used to prevent stress concentrations from the fastener, not
so much that they themselves are the problem.

now, the holes /can/ be a problem, but there are rule as to drilling
method, size and placement that pretty much remove risk. *i forget the
numbers now, but as you say, you have to keep certain distances from
edges, use holes above a certain size relative to glass thickness, make
sure hole edges are smooth and that they don't get overly stressed.
done right, you'll not notice any difference in service strength.

The back glass on the '82 - '92 Camaro and Firebird is a perfect
example.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/382708...w/100_0427.JPG