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plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.
It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 22, 11:05*pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. * It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... You wouldn't be using Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease for that purpose at all... The Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease you refer to above is used to keep valve stems lubricated... The only thing you might use teflon tape on near a valve stem is as a temporary repair to the packing to stop it from leaking before you either properly rebuild the valve or replace it... ~~ Evan |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 22, 8:05*pm, J Burns wrote:
The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. * It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief & recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief& recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Here's grease sold as a sealant: http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating. Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the housing was pitted. The valve grease completes the seal between the o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. It may also prevent further pitting. A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. I used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. This helped me screw it in tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. In the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable grease, instead? It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
Evan wrote:
On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 3:25*am, J Burns wrote:
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J *wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.. * *It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief& *recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Here's grease sold as a sealant:http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating. Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the housing was pitted. *The valve grease completes the seal between the o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. *It may also prevent further pitting. A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. *I used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. *This helped me screw it in tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. *In the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable grease, instead? *It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available anywhere. Don't see why anyone would want to use anything else. What does the grease container say? Website? |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 5:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One major reason for not using teflon tape in certain applications is the small pieces that get cut loose during the threading operation and screw up equipment down stream. Thus it is bad to use it in hydraulic systems. I used to work in a farm equipmen manufacturing plant. We learned not ot use it on the hydraulic systems frothat reason. Had seveeral returns where we had to tear down and overhaul hydralic pumps due to teflon in the close tolerance places. I suppose the same would be true for gas lines. Harry K |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On 10/23/2011 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief& recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote:
1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches. Oops, I must be dyslexic today. I looked at it again and someone must have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked :) Sorry for the rant. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 5:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Hey Bub- Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information? "avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint." In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION. The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK. Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal. I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 9:26*am, Art Todesco wrote:
On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches. Oops, I must be dyslexic today. *I looked at it again and someone must have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked :) *Sorry for the rant. Art- Actually, I can see why you thought that. Two of the pipe wraps are clearly correct but the one with the tape roll is very misleading in that the roll of tape and the "loose end" are in visual conflict. If the "loose end" in the illustration were removed it would be visually correct. Looks like the graphic designer / Adobe Illustrator jockey doesn't do much thread wrapping. cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote:
Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. No. The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal. Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant) to any small leaks. Jon |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:46:54 -0400, J Burns
wrote: I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. It's sticky, inert, and heat resistant. Later, I thought it would be just the thing for plumbing. (It is used for plumbing at sea.) I use silicone lube for pool valves, O-rings, etc., exposed to chemicals in the pool. As for plumber's grease, I understand it is a lube used in sink faucet repair -- water supply in food preparation areas -- "food grade". The grease is a lube not a sealant. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
That could explain thier problems, you think? Nothing like
having your underw^h^h^h^h^h teflon tape in a bunch. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Art Todesco" wrote in message ... 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
..doog lla s'tI .melborp oN
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Art Todesco" wrote in message ... Oops, I must be dyslexic today. I looked at it again and someone must have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked :) Sorry for the rant. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
Working in a modern power plant for 30+ years we used nothing but teflon tape in the instrument dept. HP steam which condensed to h2o at pressures up to 3-5000 psi on our instruments, and hydraulic pressures on the turbines that approached 10,000 psi teflon was an excellent choice. Quality of np threads is essential for a secure connection. Case in point a few fittings from Lowes (made in Chine) purchased for a home plumbing job could not seal, I decided to allow the drip to seal itself as it did. Thread quality is what it's all about On 10/22/2011 11:05 PM, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote: Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Hey Bub- Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information? "avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint." In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION. The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK. Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal. I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information. Sigh. "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia. "For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1 |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote: Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Hey Bub- Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information? "avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint." In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION. The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK. Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal. I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information. Sigh. "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia. "For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already. Harry K |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 9:22*am, Art Todesco wrote:
On 10/23/2011 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J *wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease.. * *It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief& *recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! *Or are they using reverse threads? *I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That's correct. Example. Hold pipe in left hand with threads sticking out to the right. Wrap tape around with right hand rotating over top to the outside (or 'right'). Wrapped the other way will usually wind up with all the tape pushed right off the threads. Harry K |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 11:36*am, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 23, 9:26*am, Art Todesco wrote: On 10/23/2011 12:22 PM, Art Todesco wrote: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Now I'm not an expert, but that web site shows the teflon tape all wound in the wrong direction! Or are they using reverse threads? I was always taught to wind it such that the female fitting would tend to tighten the teflon rather than push it backwards and possibly gather it in bunches. Oops, I must be dyslexic today. *I looked at it again and someone must have inverted the picture from the 1st time I looked :) *Sorry for the rant. Art- Actually, I can see why you thought that. Two of the pipe wraps are clearly correct but the one with the tape roll is very misleading *in that the roll of tape and the "loose end" are in visual conflict. If the "loose end" in the illustration were removed it would be visually correct. Looks like the graphic designer / *Adobe Illustrator jockey doesn't do much thread wrapping. cheers Bob- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Dunno why the artist put that full, closed roll where he did. the 'loose end' is from teh wrap around the pipe and doesn't even go with that roll. Harry K |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 12:41*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote: On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote: Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. No. *The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal. Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant) to any small leaks. Jon Jon- You (as others) are repeating an incorrect urban / suburban legend. Tefon tape is just a different form of pipe sealant. Lubricant ALONE grease or oil, non solids, is will seal properly cut NPT threads. Take a look in Machinery's Handbook (or any mechanical reference) and examine the NPT thread forms. There is not complete metal to metal contact, the thread crests & valleys never contact each other ..... no matter how how tight the joint is made. Thus a spiral leak path exists. Without something to seal this leak path, the joint will leak. cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 12:41*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote: On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote: Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. No. *The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal. Additionally, the material itself, be it PTFE tape or the grease that the PTFE is suspended in, provide an additional highly viscous barrier (sealant) to any small leaks. Jon Jon- "The main reason people use PTFE is to lubricate the threads so that the fitting can be tightened tightly enough to provide a seal" I can't know "the main reason people use PTFE" but...... If we are referring to NPT threads (the kind used in normal piping applications & found by the 100000's in plumbing depts) .....lubricant alone will not seal them, no matter how tightly they are torqued. NPT threads are not designed to interfere. The NPT thread forms have a "designed & mfr'd"crest to valley clearance. This clearance forms a spiral leak path........sealant required. Only NPTF (dry seal tapered pipe threads) are meant to be uses w/o sealant... complete metal to metal contact. Check out the NPT thread form (Machinery's Handbook or other ref) & you will understand the leak path. Complete metal to metal contact does not happen. cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 6:54*pm, Harry K wrote:
On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote: DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote: Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Hey Bub- Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information? "avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint." In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION. The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK. Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal. I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information. Sigh. "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia. "For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already. Harry K ........So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thread "deforms"? ...... Additional confirmation that NPT threads do not "deform" in use. cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 6:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 23, 5:01 am, "HeyBub" wrote: Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Hey Bub- Why do you insist on spreading this wrong information? "avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint." In several previous A.H.R threads it was clearly established that........ NPT threads DO NOT SEAL BY THREAD DEFORMATION. The design & mfr of the threads create a spiral leak path between the thread crests and valleys. NPT threads, correctly cut, MUST HAVE A SEALANT TO NOT LEAK. Only NPTF threads (dry seal) depend on thread deformation to seal. I am amazed by your inability to absorb new information to replace wrong information. Sigh. "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia. "For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1 And what is your point? "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." Wikipedia. The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote: "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." is wrong.......... as it relates to NPT threads ("normal" pipe threads). NPT threads are probably the only type encountered by readers of this newsgroup. The frequency of use of NPTF pipe threads is vanishing small..... this being a residential newsgroup most readers will seldom, if ever, encounter them. NPTF thread are typically used in systems where tape & dope are prohibited. typically hydraulic systems with close clearance "servo" valves. This quote "For NPT threads a sealant compound or Teflon tape must be used for a leak-free seal. For NPTF no sealant is needed for a sealing." ANSI/ASME B1.20.1 is correct. And will notice there is no mention of lubrication. cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 18:58:27 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote: That's correct. Example. Hold pipe in left hand with threads sticking out to the right. Wrap tape around with right hand rotating over top to the outside (or 'right'). Wrapped the other way will usually wind up with all the tape pushed right off the threads. Most of the thin tape I've used can be stretched as it's put on. Goes deep into the threads and the torn end disappears with a twist of the fingers. It won't unwind or "bunch up" if put on backwards. Some of the older thick tape would though. --Vic |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 3:46*pm, J Burns wrote:
On 10/23/11 10:02 AM, wrote: On Oct 23, 3:25 am, J *wrote: On 10/23/11 1:36 AM, DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 22, 8:05 pm, J * *wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. * * It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. *The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. *Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? This grease is not an appropriate *substitute for teflon tape. This grease is a lubricant. Teflon tape's major role is that of sealant. Contrary to the belief& * *recommendations some: 1) NPT threads (national pipe threads -tapered) require the use of sealant; dope or tape 2) *the right spec of teflon tape is just fine for gas http://www.imacsystems.com/Gas_Seal_...hread_Tape.pdf cheers Bob Here's grease sold as a sealant:http://www.superior-industries.com/s...oduct_241.html Another product is Dow Corning 111 Valve Lube Sealant Novagard G 624 is another grease sold for sealing and lubricating. Water was leaking around the valve cartridge in my shower because the housing was pitted. *The valve grease completes the seal between the o-rings on the cartridge and the housing. *It may also prevent further pitting. A few years ago, the 9" pipe for the shower head got thin and broke. *I used teflon tape to screw in a new pipe. *This helped me screw it in tight, helped it seal, and could make it easier to unscrew later. *In the case of that shower pipe, what would be wrong with using a suitable grease, instead? *It could be easier and more foolproof than teflon tape.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The standard for water plumbing is to use either teflon or pipe dope, both of which are cheap and available anywhere. *Don't see why anyone would want to use anything else. What does the grease container say? *Website? Thanks, I think I'm getting somewhere. I had used silicone sealing grease in the military. *It's sticky, inert, and heat resistant. *Later, I thought it would be just the thing for plumbing. *(It is used for plumbing at sea.) It came to mind when my cartridge leaked. *I came across the term "plumber's grease" online and thought it must be similar. *The tube of Harvey's said it could be used in steam systems up to 350F. *I thought, "That's it!" It worked, but in taking a second look, I found that it smells like petroleum grease and isn't as sticky as silicone sealing grease. *The MSDS says it's general purpose lithium grease. I've had good luck with teflon tape, but sometimes I've had to try again because I'd applied too much for a good mechanical connection. *You need the right tape for the application. *It takes two hands, and you could end up with a bit of tape in an orifice or valve. *If I applied sealing grease to the male threads, it seems I could do it with one hand, it wouldn't interfere mechanically, and any excess would be squeezed to the outside, not the inside. I've never used pipe dope because it used to harden. *That could make a joint hard to unscrew and leave the contents of a container useless. Now I see they have non-hardening dope. *I wonder how it differs from sealing grease. Yup... Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them moving freely... The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during the times the system is providing heating energy... You need a grease or lubricant which won't cook off... ~~ Evan |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote: Yup... Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them moving freely... The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during the times the system is providing heating energy... You need a grease or lubricant which won't cook off... ~~ Evan Might be true for some applications, but I never heard of lubing steam valves. I worked as a Navy boilerrman for 3 1/2 years. Steam systems don't like any type of oil contamination. All the steam valves I worked with - a lot of them - used graphite infused packing around the stems. --Vic |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 8:01*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote: On Oct 22, 11:05 pm, J Burns wrote: The other day I bought a 1-oz tube of Harvey's Faucet and Valve Grease. It's little like vaseline but stickier and more viscous. The tube says it resists high temperatures. I can imagine several plumbing applications for it. Has anyone used grease instead of teflon tape? @J Burns: In what application ? Using teflon tape on threaded pipe fittings to provide an extra level of sealant in the threads is the primary application of teflon tape... In some applications like gas piping, pipe dope is required in place of using teflon tape... The avowed purpose of Teflon tape is to make threading the pipe easier by providing a slippery surface. It is the deformation of the threads that provides the sealing of the joint. Teflon tape does provide SOME sealing, but can't be counted on to provide a complete one. If it did, pipe dope would not be required for certain application. Yup, that would be the difference between something which must be liquid tight and something which needs to be air tight to contain a gas... Some plumbing codes require the use of pipe dope on natural gas piping even though there is a teflon tape which is allowed for that use in other jurisdictions... ~~ Evan |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
In article ,
Harry K wrote: ...snipped... So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already. Harry K I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the fitting is unscrewed. -- Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
I think Young's Law needs a correlary for teflon tape.
From: "Stormin Mormon" Subject: Young's Law of Usenet Date: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:55 PM Is WD a lubricant, or.... Young's Law of usenet: After Nazis have been evoked and called forth from the spirit world, someone is sure to mention WD-40. The debate "is it a lubricant or water displacer" is not complete until someone explains what the letters abbrev. for. Points are earned by quoting usenet posters of old, Aristotle, or your own personal experiences with WD-40. Web pages abound, and are on topic for the debate. Regardless of how worthy an argument is, no one is allowed to change sides. The debate must continue to eternity. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Larry W" wrote in message ... I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the fitting is unscrewed. -- Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
DD_BobK wrote:
The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote: "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." is wrong.......... Are you INSANE? The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion around it! Friggin' pagan! |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
Evan wrote:
Some plumbing codes require the use of pipe dope on natural gas piping even though there is a teflon tape which is allowed for that use in other jurisdictions... Personally, I gave up on teflon for gas pipe. The dope is way more dependable. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 24, 2:52*am, (Larry W) wrote:
In article , Harry K wrote: ...snipped... So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already. Harry K I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the fitting is unscrewed. -- * * *Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. * * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org Surrre it fixes itself. Harry K |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 24, 2:52*am, (Larry W) wrote:
In article , Harry K wrote: ...snipped... So just why can you unscrew and resuse iron fittings numerous times if the thead "deforms"? *I am still resuing fittings I salvaged 30 years ago that were probably reused at least once already. Harry K I'm not commenting either way (yet) on whether teflon tape is designed to lubricate or seal, but I will point out that deformation can occur well before the yield limit of a material, IOW is reversed when the fitting is unscrewed. -- * * *Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. * * *Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org Now we're going to get into the mechanics of materials? These are NPT threaded joints we're discussing..... Elastic / non-yeilding deformation vs plastic / yielding deformation is irrelevant to the discussion. Look at the thread form of NPT threads....they need a sealant. Look at the joint torques for common NPT thread sizes. Harry K's comment was spot on...your comment is splitting hairs at best cheers Bob |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 24, 7:16*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote: The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote: "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." is wrong.......... Are you INSANE? The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion around it! Friggin' pagan! You never addressed my question... "And what is your point?" with respect to showing the wikipedia quote, Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage or to show the source of your misinformation? Instead you resort to comedy....... How about ...... "I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT threads. NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant alone." It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation. Try it. People come to A.H.R for information. Spreading your misinformation is a disservice. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 24, 7:16 am, "HeyBub" wrote: DD_BobK wrote: The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote: "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." is wrong.......... Are you INSANE? The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion around it! Friggin' pagan! You never addressed my question... "And what is your point?" with respect to showing the wikipedia quote, Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage or to show the source of your misinformation? Instead you resort to comedy....... How about ...... "I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT threads. NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant alone." It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation. Try it. People come to A.H.R for information. Spreading your misinformation is a disservice. I was NOT wrong. The Wikipedia entry speaks for itself. It does not mention NPT threads, champagne corks, wooden pegs, nails, ordinary screws, or glue. I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases. That you are looking for some nit to pick may give you great pleasure. I am glad I was able to feed your hobby. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 24, 4:43*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
DD_BobK wrote: On Oct 24, 7:16 am, "HeyBub" wrote: DD_BobK wrote: The Wikipedia "entry" that you quote: "The use of [Teflon] tape in tapered pipe threads performs a lubricating function, which more easily allows the threads to be screwed together, to the point of deformation, which is what creates the seal." is wrong.......... Are you INSANE? The Wikipedia entry is on the INTERNET, for God's sake! You can take it to the bank! You can let your sister marry it! You can build a whole religion around it! Friggin' pagan! You never addressed my question... "And what is your point?" * with respect to showing the wikipedia quote, Was it to bolster your incorrect understanding of NPT behavior & usage or to show the source of your misinformation? Instead you resort to comedy....... How about ...... "I was wrong. A complete metal to metal seal cannot occur with NPT threads. *NPT threads need a sealant. They cannot work with lubricant alone." It won't kill you. It's so much easier than tap dancing & obfuscation. Try it. People come to A.H.R for information. Spreading your misinformation is a disservice. I was NOT wrong. The Wikipedia entry speaks for itself. It does not mention NPT threads, champagne corks, wooden pegs, nails, ordinary screws, or glue. I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases. That you are looking for some nit to pick may give you great pleasure. I am glad I was able to feed your hobby. "I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases." Nice tap dance........ but despite your "performance" any tapered pipe thread joint, other than NPTF (dryseal), needs a sealant. Which would be teflon tape or dope. Teflon tape is a sealant not merely a lubricant. To continue to insist that pipe threads do not need sealant is to mislead & misinform. |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
On Oct 23, 11:25*pm, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan wrote: Yup... *Valve stems on steam valves need lubrication to keep them moving freely... *The steam piping gets and stays quite hot during the times the system is providing heating energy... *You need a grease or lubricant which won't cook off... ~~ Evan Might be true for some applications, but I never heard of lubing steam valves. I worked as a Navy boilerrman for 3 1/2 years. Steam systems don't like any type of oil contamination. All the steam valves I worked with - a lot of them - used graphite infused packing around the stems. --Vic That might be the case on a Navy ship boiler system where the steam is being used for very sensitive applications like the expanding steam turbine turning gear for propulsion... But in a home or commercial heating system using steam -- there is a lot more harmful stuff in the _water_ than a bit of grease getting past a failed gasket on a valve at a radiator... ~~ Evan |
plumber's grease instead of teflon tape?
DD_BobK wrote:
"I took it to be a generalized statement, subject to refinement for specific cases." Nice tap dance........ but despite your "performance" any tapered pipe thread joint, other than NPTF (dryseal), needs a sealant. Which would be teflon tape or dope. Teflon tape is a sealant not merely a lubricant. To continue to insist that pipe threads do not need sealant is to mislead & misinform. Heh! Nice tap dance... I never said that pipe threads do not need a sealant. To claim that I did is far worse than claiming I misinformed. |
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