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Blown in cellulose in new construction



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 30th 11, 02:31 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 97
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?

I heard most places who cell cellulose insulation rent the blower for
free. Does HD or Lowes rent it? Can one man operate it?
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  #2  
Old June 30th 11, 03:56 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 11,580
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?


Not cellulose. The stuff you see squirted into an open wall is polystyrene
foam (think Great Stuff).

Sprayed foam has superb insulating qualities (R=6+/inch) and not cheap.
Fiberglass is about 2/3rds (R=4/inch) the insulating qualities of foam.
Cellulose has about the same R-value as fiberglass, but is typically applied
in a thinner layer resulting in an overall lesser R-value than fiberglass.

You can't easily use blown-in cellulose on a wall. To do so, you have to
finish the wall, open a hole, fill the cavity, then patch the hole. One hole
per stud. After that, the cellulose will settle with time and you'll end up
with only 3/4 of the wall insulated.

In your case, I'd recommend fiberglass batts and a sharp knife to mold it
around pipes and wires.


  #3  
Old June 30th 11, 04:09 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 6,757
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction


HeyBub wrote:

ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?


Not cellulose. The stuff you see squirted into an open wall is polystyrene
foam (think Great Stuff).

Sprayed foam has superb insulating qualities (R=6+/inch) and not cheap.
Fiberglass is about 2/3rds (R=4/inch) the insulating qualities of foam.
Cellulose has about the same R-value as fiberglass, but is typically applied
in a thinner layer resulting in an overall lesser R-value than fiberglass.

You can't easily use blown-in cellulose on a wall. To do so, you have to
finish the wall, open a hole, fill the cavity, then patch the hole. One hole
per stud. After that, the cellulose will settle with time and you'll end up
with only 3/4 of the wall insulated.

In your case, I'd recommend fiberglass batts and a sharp knife to mold it
around pipes and wires.


Actually, they do indeed do cellulose based blow in insulation in open
wall cavities and screed off the excess flush with the studs. The
cellulose is I think lightly dampened for application and I suspect has
some light tack binder added. At any rate from what I've seen it works
well and should be much easier to fish wires through later if needed
than the spray foam or fiberglass batt insulation. For new construction
I still recommend installing strategically placed conduit since 3/4" PVC
conduit is very inexpensive and installing it in new construction will
take all of one evening and cost $20 or so.
  #4  
Old June 30th 11, 04:11 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4,982
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction



ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?

I heard most places who cell cellulose insulation rent the blower for
free. Does HD or Lowes rent it? Can one man operate it?

Hi,
Moisture is biggest enemy of that and wall? it will settle over time.
  #5  
Old June 30th 11, 09:56 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 11,580
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

Pete C. wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and
second floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of
pipes and wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better
value then fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many
obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video
when they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed
to screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it
to ceiling will it stick and not fall down?


Not cellulose. The stuff you see squirted into an open wall is
polystyrene foam (think Great Stuff).

Sprayed foam has superb insulating qualities (R=6+/inch) and not
cheap. Fiberglass is about 2/3rds (R=4/inch) the insulating
qualities of foam. Cellulose has about the same R-value as
fiberglass, but is typically applied in a thinner layer resulting in
an overall lesser R-value than fiberglass.

You can't easily use blown-in cellulose on a wall. To do so, you
have to finish the wall, open a hole, fill the cavity, then patch
the hole. One hole per stud. After that, the cellulose will settle
with time and you'll end up with only 3/4 of the wall insulated.

In your case, I'd recommend fiberglass batts and a sharp knife to
mold it around pipes and wires.


Actually, they do indeed do cellulose based blow in insulation in open
wall cavities and screed off the excess flush with the studs. The
cellulose is I think lightly dampened for application and I suspect
has some light tack binder added. At any rate from what I've seen it
works well and should be much easier to fish wires through later if
needed than the spray foam or fiberglass batt insulation. For new
construction I still recommend installing strategically placed
conduit since 3/4" PVC conduit is very inexpensive and installing it
in new construction will take all of one evening and cost $20 or so.


I saw that, but the "dampened" cellulose takes up to a YEAR to dry...

Good idea about the PVC "conduit" (a regular hunk of PVC should work).


  #6  
Old June 30th 11, 11:22 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,158
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

On 6/30/2011 9:31 AM, ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?

I heard most places who cell cellulose insulation rent the blower for
free. Does HD or Lowes rent it? Can one man operate it?


Since all the walls are open, I'd price pro-applied spray foam as well.
Superior insulation, and it acts as its own vapor barrier. Probably
higher up front cost, but quick payback in heat/cooling costs. But why
insulate above basement, unless it is gonna be finished living space and
you are looking for sound deadening?

--
aem sends...
  #7  
Old July 1st 11, 12:18 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,158
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

On 6/30/2011 6:56 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:22:35 -0400,
wrote:

Since all the walls are open, I'd price pro-applied spray foam as well.
Superior insulation, and it acts as its own vapor barrier. Probably
higher up front cost, but quick payback in heat/cooling costs. But why
insulate above basement, unless it is gonna be finished living space and
you are looking for sound deadening?


_If Walls Could Talk_ ... 31% of all air leakage can be attributed to
walls, floors and ceilings.

http://www.icynene.com/homeowner/

A fellow I know built new, had Icynene sprayed in and never looked
back. Only positive stories about his comfort and lower utility bills.

I would certainly use the stuff if I ever built new, for sure.


My point being that a properly-built and dry basement (which usually has
first-floor ducts running through it) is part of the heated envelope
anyway, or pretty close to it. I'd insulate basement sidewalls below
frost depth before I insulated basement ceiling, unless I really needed
the sound deadening. Even in an unheated house, basement slab is usually
well above freezing from ground warmth. And in summer, it is usually a
lot cooler than the rest of the house. Makes life a lot easier for your
HVAC and wallet. Basement is sorta like an earth-bermed structure.
Smaller delta on the temp swings, and buffers the daily temp changes.

--
aem sends...
  #8  
Old July 1st 11, 01:15 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 46
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

aemeijers wrote:
On 6/30/2011 6:56 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:22:35 -0400,
wrote:

Since all the walls are open, I'd price pro-applied spray foam as well.
Superior insulation, and it acts as its own vapor barrier. Probably
higher up front cost, but quick payback in heat/cooling costs. But why
insulate above basement, unless it is gonna be finished living space and
you are looking for sound deadening?


_If Walls Could Talk_ ... 31% of all air leakage can be attributed to
walls, floors and ceilings.

http://www.icynene.com/homeowner/

A fellow I know built new, had Icynene sprayed in and never looked
back. Only positive stories about his comfort and lower utility bills.

I would certainly use the stuff if I ever built new, for sure.


My point being that a properly-built and dry basement (which usually has
first-floor ducts running through it) is part of the heated envelope
anyway, or pretty close to it. I'd insulate basement sidewalls below
frost depth before I insulated basement ceiling, unless I really needed
the sound deadening. Even in an unheated house, basement slab is usually
well above freezing from ground warmth. And in summer, it is usually a
lot cooler than the rest of the house. Makes life a lot easier for your
HVAC and wallet. Basement is sorta like an earth-bermed structure.
Smaller delta on the temp swings, and buffers the daily temp changes.


Best return on investment? Some think so,
Cellulose,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ybp93Jx6Tg
  #9  
Old July 1st 11, 03:31 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 11,024
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:56:36 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

ls02 wrote:
I am thinking about using blown in cellulose insulation for new
construction: walls, attic as well in floors between first and second
floor and between first floor and basement. I have a lot of pipes and
wires so I suspect blown in cellulose will provide better value then
fiberglass batts which hard to put around so many obstacles.

Has anyone done this?

What's the cost of blown in cellulose vs fiber glass batts?

What's the best way to apply it to walls and floors? I saw video when
they blow it to wall open cavity then use some sort of screed to
screed excess flush with walls. What about floors? If I blow it to
ceiling will it stick and not fall down?


Not cellulose. The stuff you see squirted into an open wall is polystyrene
foam (think Great Stuff).


No, he is right - spray cellulose IS used - a LOT in some areas.
Polystyrene foam is NOT sprayed in place. Urethane foam is.
Personally I don't like the cellulose, and prefer the urethane foam.

There is standard wet applied cellulose, and stabilized cellulose -
both of which seal quite well and do not suffer from settling - as
long as they stay dry after application. Both require a minimum of 24
- preferably 48 hours drying time before covering with wallboard.

Stabilized cellulose is generally used in ceilings and on the bottom
of roofs.
Sprayed foam has superb insulating qualities (R=6+/inch) and not cheap.
Fiberglass is about 2/3rds (R=4/inch) the insulating qualities of foam.
Cellulose has about the same R-value as fiberglass, but is typically applied
in a thinner layer resulting in an overall lesser R-value than fiberglass.

You can't easily use blown-in cellulose on a wall.


He is NOT talking old school blown in, or "loose fill" cellulose.
This stuff goes in wet and sets up like a combination of felt and
papier mache.

To do so, you have to
finish the wall, open a hole, fill the cavity, then patch the hole. One hole
per stud. After that, the cellulose will settle with time and you'll end up
with only 3/4 of the wall insulated.

In your case, I'd recommend fiberglass batts and a sharp knife to mold it
around pipes and wires.

That works too - but does not seal air or sound as well as spray
cellulose - which does not work as well as spray urethane foam for the
same job, but costs less and is easier to remove if required for
renovations/repairs/other access.
  #10  
Old July 1st 11, 03:34 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 11,024
Default Blown in cellulose in new construction

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 09:01:50 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 06:31:29 -0700 (PDT), ls02
wrote:


I heard most places who cell cellulose insulation rent the blower for
free. Does HD or Lowes rent it? Can one man operate it?


I recall HD does have the blowers, not sure it if it free use or a
rental fee.

Two people are needed to use the machine. One man operating the
blower hose and one man on the machine. The insulation is tightly
packed in the bags, so it needs to be broken down well going into the
blower.

You are not talking about spray cellulose - you are talking blown
loose-fill. TOTALLY different process.
 




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