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#41
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jun 29, 9:21*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message ... On 6/29/11 6:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, *two acres of which are cleared and developed. *I have areas away from the house area in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. *Ideally, I would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400 feet away from the house. I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of *"T's" * add several branches *(hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas. But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it all seems so *"temporary." I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? *(The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). * *Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something. Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? thanks *!! James * * I wonder if you could find some used hand move sprinkler line. The stuff I'm thinking of is 4" aluminum and has a coupler for a sprinkler at each joint. * It usually came in *30' or 40' sections. * You could just pull it apart to drain it or put a valve at a joint now and then. * One drawback might be its temptation to thieves. Good Lord. *That stuff would now have antique value wouldn't it Dean?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Used all the time in farm irrigation. Also in the recycling business - very popular with the midnight recyclers. Harry K |
#42
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jun 30, 4:50*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. As to winter, may be able to to blow it out with compressed air, and leave it dry. I laid a "temporary line" some 200 ft with a 50' side branch with mostly 3/4" PVC (white) on top of the ground to water newly planted trees in 1977. Pulled it about 15 years later. Had a few leaks each spring but fittings are very cheap and patching is nothing but a hacksaw and tube of glue. Currently using pieces of that same pipe for another 'temporary' line to bypass a busted frost free hydrant (can't replace without digging through a mass of tree roots). That lien is also above ground and only needed one patch this spring (usually there are several). Line has been in place over 10 years. Harry K |
#43
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 6/30/2011 11:00 PM, Bob F wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc. Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose. OR you could use a larger garden hose. duh. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#44
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, SMS
wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...ef=pd_sim_ol_2 Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. |
#45
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 19:31:53 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote: "Bob F" wrote in message ... Stormin Mormon wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. Most Pex is easily damaged by UV. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. It's not rated for that. Which brings us back to black poly pipe. Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black polypipe hadn't made it to US. Plenty black poly in the US, used for about every automatic sprinkler system... but in most all cases it's completely buried so UV is not a problem. |
#46
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 06:10:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote: On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... Stormin Mormon wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. Most Pex is easily damaged by UV. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. It's not rated for that. Which brings us back to black poly pipe. Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black polypipe hadn't made it to US. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible. I never heard of buried poly moving from being pressurized... perhaps your system was prone to air locks, which is easy to eliminate by installing a simple device that cushions the system. Anyone installing an irrigation system from their domestic water needs to install an anti backflow valve or they are looking for big trouble. |
#47
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote: On Jun 30, 9:12*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. Why not? *Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter matters. Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch. A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature? Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation tubing. Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters would use something else. I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to water their garden. However gals like fire fighters watering their gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage in their drawers. LOL-LOL |
#48
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
In article ,
"James Nipper" wrote: I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, two acres of which are cleared and developed. I have areas away from the house area in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. Ideally, I would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400 feet away from the house. I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of "T's" add several branches (hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas. But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it all seems so "temporary." I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something. Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? thanks !! James Use drip irrigation! -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug |
#49
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 11:37 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 06:10:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... Stormin Mormon wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. Most Pex is easily damaged by UV. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. It's not rated for that. Which brings us back to black poly pipe. Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black polypipe hadn't made it to US. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible. I never heard of buried poly moving from being pressurized... perhaps your system was prone to air locks, which is easy to eliminate by installing a simple device that cushions the system. Anyone installing an irrigation system from their domestic water needs to install an anti backflow valve or they are looking for big trouble. Oh it had a check valve at the pump but the pipe went straight for a distance then down into a gully where the spring was located. No matter what material a pipe is made of, it's going to move when pressurized. Pipe will also move with a change in temperature. Look at how metal pipe is supported in different situations. The longer the pipe the more movement becomes a problem. TDD |
#50
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:50:51 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote:
On Jun 29, 6:30*pm, "James Nipper" wrote: I have a vacation property in the mountains, of about six acres, *two acres of which are cleared and developed. *I have areas away from the house area in which I need water access for watering plants, flowers, etc. *Ideally, I would love to have about three faucets in areas that are up to about 400 feet away from the house. I can purchase 500 to 600 feet of hoses, and with the use of *"T's" * add several branches *(hoses) to allow me to water in several selected areas. But, if I use high quality hoses, this would be pretty expensive, and it all seems so *"temporary." I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? *(The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). * *Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something. Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Why not set up a system for gravity flow irrigation, like the farmers that grow rice have? All you need is a laser level and some sheet plastic for ditch liners. Or if you simply prefer to spend money, have a small well drilled at the site needing the water. You slip that in so nonchalantly... there is no such thing as drilling a small well on the cheap. |
#51
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
James wrote:
thanks for all the helpful posts....... I think that the 1 inch polypipe is the way to go !! James James Could I make a couple of suggestions. Don't change nyms from one part of a thread to another, nobody will know that you are the OP. Answer some of the questions and provide more information. You haven't said where the water is coming from or how much you need at the destination. You haven't given us enough to make a guess if 1" polypipe will in fact be adequate. You don't want to go to the trouble of buying and laying the pipe to discover that it doesn't work. If the inlet pressure is not very high 1" may be too narrow to give the outlet flow you want, if it is going up hill you might get a tiny flow at the outlet or none at all. Also 1" has a tendency to kink and get flattened very easily. If using 1" DON'T use push fittings (bayonet fittings) they will pop off all the time if put under pressure, use the more expensive fittings that clamp the pipe with a nut. A knowledgeable irrigation equipment supplier will be able to advise you correctly, whether such is available near you is another issue. David |
#52
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Thanks David, and the others. First, I don't know what a "nym" is, but
sorry.... My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. I get good pressure (60 psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill. As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses around. That is all that this is about. I do appreciate all the help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps 3/4 inch. BTW, I don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some light watering. James |
#53
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 11:00 PM, Bob F wrote: Steve Barker wrote: On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc. Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose. OR you could use a larger garden hose. duh. Do you have a 1" or 1.5" garden hose? |
#54
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Brooklyn1 wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, SMS wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...ef=pd_sim_ol_2 Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. That's poly, not PVC. |
#55
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
James wrote:
Thanks David, and the others. First, I don't know what a "nym" is, but sorry.... My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. I get good pressure (60 psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill. As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses around. That is all that this is about. I do appreciate all the help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps 3/4 inch. BTW, I don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some light watering. My recommendation - stick with the 1". You won't get much pressure/volume through the 3/4". The cost difference is not that big. |
#56
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...ef=pd_sim_ol_2 Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. That's poly, not PVC. I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it every couple of years. If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks. It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted. Flexible PVC would also work, but it's not intended to be under pressure all the time, and it's for non-potable water. 100' lengths. It's pretty expensive though. It'd be the easiest to install. I often see very long runs of pipe in state parks where they are running water to a campground. It's always iron pipe. http://flexpvc.com/ |
#57
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Very clever idea. A planned leak, but good for slow
watering. Thank you. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message ... If you drill a 3/16" hole on the side near the bottom of the bucket it will drip water for a plant for several hours. |
#58
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
I've seen 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. What other sizes have you
found, for garden hose? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve Barker" wrote in message ... A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc. Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose. OR you could use a larger garden hose. duh. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#59
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
Thanks for the field report. Maybe it does last a while?
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Harry K" wrote in message ... I laid a "temporary line" some 200 ft with a 50' side branch with mostly 3/4" PVC (white) on top of the ground to water newly planted trees in 1977. Pulled it about 15 years later. Had a few leaks each spring but fittings are very cheap and patching is nothing but a hacksaw and tube of glue. Currently using pieces of that same pipe for another 'temporary' line to bypass a busted frost free hydrant (can't replace without digging through a mass of tree roots). That lien is also above ground and only needed one patch this spring (usually there are several). Line has been in place over 10 years. Harry K |
#60
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
... On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... Stormin Mormon wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. Most Pex is easily damaged by UV. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. It's not rated for that. Which brings us back to black poly pipe. Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black polypipe hadn't made it to US. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible. That's interesting and different from our experience. We use 2 inch poly runnin goff the pump on our dam and leading up to the tank on the hill to gravity feed for the toilets and the garden and it'd be about 200 yards in distance. It's not buried , must have been there about 20 years by now and we've never had any trouble from it. We dont' ever run that pump flat out though - just putttering alone at about half speeed (dont' ask me why because I don't know). The ants use teh poly as an ant superhighway, but I guess their tracks aren't doing anything much to wear it. The only trouble we've had with any 2 inch poly was buried and was in the gravity feed section. It started leaking and had to be dug up and fixed and then reburied, but I think it might have been a tree root that caused it to rupture. I'm a huge fan of polypipe as I can repair most of it myself without ever having called upon Himself to do it. |
#61
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"Colbyt" wrote in message
... "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message u... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ... First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. I have black polypipe that's been in the sunlight for up to 20 years. The biggest danger to my black polypipe has been from my garden fork and frost popping the connectors off. quoteBlack HDPE pipe containing 2 to 2.5% carbon black can be safely stored outside in the sun without damage from UV exposure. /quote source: http://www.polymoldproducts.com/PE_PIPES.htm Some poly pipe can take it and some apparently can not. It'd be as useless as tits on a man's back if it couldnt' be used out in the sun in Australia. |
#62
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"James" wrote:
My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. I get good pressure (60 psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill. I am talking about watering a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses around. That is all that this is about. I don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some light watering. For what you describe it would be asinine to install a grid of piping all over six acres... your idea is way over kill, it's beyond over kill, it's as stupid as stupid gets... you're not growing crops. And with shrubs and trees once they're established it's not a good idea to water them unless there is a protracted dry spell or young plants won't develop a strong deep root system... when properly planted and mulched you really shouldn't need to water such plants after the first growing season, unless as I've said, there's a real dry spell... and native wildflowers need no watering, most do better if not watered. A newly planted sapling/shrub doesn't need much watering, five gallons once a week is all, and that's if it doesn't rain. And you don't want to water fast and heavy, you want to water slowly, so it can sink in and not run off. And from experience I can tell you that it never fails, right after you finish a whole lot of watering because everything is so dry the sky opens up and there's a deluge. All you need is a garden tractor, a cart, and a bunch of buckets, a riding lawn mower will do for occasional water hauling. And with six acres a tractor and cart is manditory to save your legs, it will probably get used every day hauling you and a mess of tools and materials to do some project, but you'll hardly ever water that smattering of plants, once growing probably never. I were you I'd be much more concerned about critters eating your plants... and if you water you'll attract more critters, critters would much rather dine on the juiciest plants. Most critters are nocturnal, while you're sleeping they'll be ferreting out those nice moist soft spots you left them, they will dig down and eat your plant's roots, you won't even know until one day you notice your plant is dying. Oh well, most everyone learns the hard way. |
#63
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 7:13 PM, Bob F wrote:
Steve Barker wrote: On 6/30/2011 11:00 PM, Bob F wrote: Steve Barker wrote: On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc. Exactly. That's why you use larger poly or PVC than the common garden hose. OR you could use a larger garden hose. duh. Do you have a 1" or 1.5" garden hose? Have some 1". yes. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#64
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 8:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've seen 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. What other sizes have you found, for garden hose? it also comes in 1" -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#65
Posted to alt.building.construction,alt.home.repair,rec.gardens
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 8:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've seen 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. What other sizes have you found, for garden hose? http://www.factorydirecthose.com/sit...2/page/3845476 http://www.gemplers.com/product/1258...en-Garden-Hose http://www.nextag.com/1-inch-water-hose/products-html http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CGgQ8wIwBA -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#66
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
"SMS" wrote in message
On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, or use ? Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...ef=pd_sim_ol_2 Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. That's poly, not PVC. I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it every couple of years. Poly is not PVC. Poly does not have problems from UV and doesn't need replacing every few years. I have poly that has been in use above ground for 20 years. If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks. It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted. Everyone has recommended that the OP use poly not PVC. Poly is short for polyethylene. |
#67
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 9:07 PM, FarmI wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message ... On 7/1/2011 4:31 AM, FarmI wrote: "Bob wrote in message ... Stormin Mormon wrote: First thing comes to mind, is sunlight and the UV rays. So, what you use should be UV resistant. White PVC tubing might work for a while. The cost of fittings might add up. Typically sold in 10 foot lengths, and the tubing is relatively rigid. White PVC will be weakened by UV. Works great buried. The new "Pex" stuff they sell for indoor water tubing may work, but not sure how UV resistant it is. Most Pex is easily damaged by UV. They also sell some grey tubing for electrical conduit, which might be more UV resistant, but not sure it's used for outdoor water. It's not rated for that. Which brings us back to black poly pipe. Ah! Thank you for mentioning it. Given all the other posts where there has been no mention of black polypipe except for a very early post, but some other things I've never heard of and UV, I was beginning to wonder if black polypipe hadn't made it to US. Back in the late 1950's and early 1960's, 2 inch black poly pipe is what my father used to get water from our spring's pump house to the water system at our home on the farm. We had to make sure the buried pipe was in a bed of sand because 200 yards of plastic pipe will move when pressurized. On more than one occasion a small stone would rub a hole into the pipe so we had to dig it up, patch the pipe with a plastic coupling then rebury it with sand around it. I remember the pipe as having a fairly thick wall and not being very flexible. That's interesting and different from our experience. We use 2 inch poly runnin goff the pump on our dam and leading up to the tank on the hill to gravity feed for the toilets and the garden and it'd be about 200 yards in distance. It's not buried , must have been there about 20 years by now and we've never had any trouble from it. We dont' ever run that pump flat out though - just putttering alone at about half speeed (dont' ask me why because I don't know). The ants use teh poly as an ant superhighway, but I guess their tracks aren't doing anything much to wear it. The only trouble we've had with any 2 inch poly was buried and was in the gravity feed section. It started leaking and had to be dug up and fixed and then reburied, but I think it might have been a tree root that caused it to rupture. I'm a huge fan of polypipe as I can repair most of it myself without ever having called upon Himself to do it. My dad never knew I was responsible for leaks in some of the hose that was coiled up and not installed. It seems that a .22 bullet will travel a long way so you better know what's behind your targets. ^_^ TDD |
#68
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 1, 6:31*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Thanks for the field report. Maybe it does last a while? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "Harry K" wrote in message ... I laid a "temporary line" some 200 ft with a 50' side branch with mostly 3/4" PVC (white) on top of the ground to water newly planted trees in 1977. *Pulled it about 15 years later. *Had a few leaks each spring but fittings are very cheap and patching is nothing but a hacksaw and tube of glue. *Currently using pieces of that same pipe for another 'temporary' line to bypass a busted frost free hydrant (can't replace without digging through a mass of tree roots). *That lien is also above ground and only needed one patch this spring (usually there are several). * Line has been in place over 10 years. Harry K It for sure gets brittle but doesn't seem to bother as long as it isn't moved. Brittleness shows when it breaks due to frost, fractures propagate down the line for several feet at times. I would probably go with black poly if I didn't have the stock of PVC. I think poly stands freezing a bit better. Harry K |
#69
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 1, 5:37*pm, SMS wrote:
On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. *You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...rrigation/dp/B.... Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. That's poly, not PVC. I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it every couple of years. If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks. It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted. Flexible PVC would also work, but it's not intended to be under pressure all the time, and it's for non-potable water. 100' lengths. It's pretty expensive though. It'd be the easiest to install. I often see very long runs of pipe in state parks where they are running water to a campground. It's always iron pipe. http://flexpvc.com/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the entire line until spring so I could dig it up. Harry K |
#70
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 1, 9:58*am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter matters. Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch. A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature? Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation tubing. *Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters would use something else. *I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to water their garden. *However gals like fire fighters watering their gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage in their drawers. LOL-LOL Stretch out 500 ft of hose under 60psi and see what you have at the end when the water is running. Harry K |
#71
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jun 30, 8:36*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 6/30/2011 9:22 AM, Bob F wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. it'll pass as much water as a same sized poly or pvc. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email Didn't know you could even buy w5/8" polyi or pvc. That's mighty small hole to push water that far. There is a reason why plumbing tables increase pipe size for distance. Harry K |
#72
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 1, 7:16*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
On 7/1/2011 8:28 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: I've seen 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. What other sizes have you found, for garden hose? it also comes in 1" -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email I hardly think anyone would classify a 1" hose as a 'garden hose'. Harry K |
#73
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On 7/1/2011 9:52 PM, Harry K wrote:
I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the entire line until spring so I could dig it up. PVC is really the only good option here. It's very cheap, 500' of 1" would probably cost under $200 with all the couplings and glue, depending on where it is all purchased. It can be painted for sun protection if the o.p. doesn't want to bury it. |
#74
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 1, 12:58*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 07:22:22 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 07:22:08 -0700, "Bob F" wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: 80 cents a foot? That's more pricey than garden hose? A 500 foot garden hose isn't going to pass much water. Why not? Hose length has no bearing on water volume, only diameter matters. Because friction in the pipe will reduce pressure by a bunch. A "bunch"... is that universally recognized scientific nomenclature? Internal turbulence does not occur to any appreciable degree in typical hard pipe, especially not with smooth plastic irrigation tubing. *Fire hose is coarsely woven cloth so is rough and does cause turbulence but still reduction in volume is negligible considering the very high pressure pumps used for fire fighting... were it presenting a water volume problem you could bet your bippee that fire fighters would use something else. *I can't imagine anyone using fire hose to water their garden. *However gals like fire fighters watering their gardens because of their big rough hoses with all their volume and high pressure... and especially how they fold up so neatly for storage in their drawers. LOL-LOL I hook up 50 ft of 5/8" garden hose to the sill cock at my house and measure the water that flows out over 1 minute. I do the same thing with 500 ft of the same hose. According to what you're claiming when I measure it over 1 minute, the same amount of water will flow. You have much experience here on planet Earth? |
#75
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
James wrote:
Thanks David, and the others. First, I don't know what a "nym" is, but sorry.... You started of as James Nipper now you are just James My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. I get good pressure (60 psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill. As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses around. That is all that this is about. I do appreciate all the help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps 3/4 inch. BTW, I don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some light watering. James I was suggesting that 1" could be too small not too big. 3/4" will flatten and kink more than 1" and has about half the capacity. It's the area of the pipe cross section that is important so the capacity varies as the square of the diameter. Go see that irrigation specialist. D |
#76
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something. Investigate underground piping, and associated valves. There is one that opens a valve in the ground below freezing level, and when the water is turned off, drains the water in the stand pipe to keep it from freezing. No need to totally drain the lines if you put them in deep enough. Not sure of their name, but I have seen lots of them in freezing country. They are red, and have a crooked handle top. Steve |
#77
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 1 Jul 2011 21:52:35 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote: On Jul 1, 5:37*pm, SMS wrote: On 7/1/2011 5:23 PM, Bob F wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 22:42:57 -0700, wrote: On 6/29/2011 4:30 PM, James Nipper wrote: Any ideas of what I should look for, *or use ? *Any general ideas of how to accomplish what I am trying to do ? Remember that PVC pipe deteriorates in the sun unless painted. Buy 20' lengths of 1" PVC at an irrigation supply house, don't go to Home Depot or Lowe's. For a large job such as described by the OP 20' lenghts will cause lots of leaking problems, and short lengths can't be laid by machine... Home Depot, Lowes, and any plumbing supply emporium sells tubing in spools of several hundred feet. *You can buy 300' rolls of 1" PVC from Amazon with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Genova-Product...rrigation/dp/B... Would still be easier and less costly to haul water as needed. That's poly, not PVC. I would definitely avoid the poly unless he wants to be replacing it every couple of years. If you glue couplers properly there will be no leaks. It's UV deterioration that he needs to worry about. When PVC is installed exposed to the sun it needs to be painted. Flexible PVC would also work, but it's not intended to be under pressure all the time, and it's for non-potable water. 100' lengths. It's pretty expensive though. It'd be the easiest to install. I often see very long runs of pipe in state parks where they are running water to a campground. It's always iron pipe. http://flexpvc.com/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the entire line until spring so I could dig it up. Where do you live that you're irrigating in winter... and if you live in a warm clime where one irrigates all year WTF mention winter, and if it's warm enough to irrigate WTF would you need to wait until spring to dig... are you fibbing? From reading your posts you're just making it ALL up... "iron" irrigation fittings your ass. |
#78
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 2, 3:30*am, "David Hare-Scott" wrote:
James wrote: Thanks David, and the others. *First, I don't know what a *"nym" is, but sorry.... You started of as James Nipper now you are just James My faucets at the cabin are based on the cabin water system, which is a well, with a pressure tank in the basement. *I get good pressure (60 psi), and the poly pipe will not go uphill. As for drilling a new well, come on guys, I am talking about watering a few plants and bushes, I just dont' want to constantly drag hoses around. That is all that this is about. * I do appreciate all the help, and I think that the polypipe is my best bet, although David's last comments may make me consider smaller, perhaps *3/4 *inch. * BTW, I don't need much pressure at the end, just enough to do some light watering. James I was suggesting that 1" could be too small not too big. *3/4" will flatten and kink more than 1" and has about half the capacity. *It's the area of the pipe cross section that is important so the capacity varies as the square of the diameter. *Go see that irrigation specialist. D Agree that 1" is the minimum for the length of run he's working on. No reason to use anything smaller, the 1" is cheap and readily available. |
#79
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Jul 2, 7:14*am, "Steve B" wrote:
I am wondering if it would be more economical to run a main line of about 500 feet, using some sort of plastic pipe (cannot remember the name of the current most common), and then run my hose branches from that ? (The main line would have to lay on the ground, through the woods). Whatever I use, I need to be able to drain the line during winters, but I suppose I could get fittings for this equipped with a drain screw or valve or something.. Investigate underground piping, and associated valves. *There is one that opens a valve in the ground below freezing level, and when the water is turned off, drains the water in the stand pipe to keep it from freezing. *No need to totally drain the lines if you put them in deep enough. *Not sure of their name, but I have seen lots of them in freezing country. *They are red, and have a crooked handle top. Steve That would be one hell of a project, running pipe below the frost line through mostly wooded areas. Around here, even if it's just open space, poly pipe is just pulled to bury it, almost never buried 3 ft deep, for obvious reasons. You just blow it out with a compressor at the end of the season. That's what is done with almost all the lawn irrigation systems. With some small percentage the pitch allows for self-draining. |
#80
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Rural Irrigation/Remote Faucets Methods ??
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:16:27 -0700, SMS
wrote: On 7/1/2011 9:52 PM, Harry K wrote: I ran 1" PVC about a 1/4 mile buried in 1976. Still in service today with no leaks. Same for all my sprinkler lines. Only leak I have had was one fitting where I made the misstake of using a female PVC/male Iron fitting. NEVER do that! Always use a malepvc/female iron. Much fun as it broke in the middle of winter and I had to shut off the the entire line until spring so I could dig it up. PVC is really the only good option here. It's very cheap, 500' of 1" would probably cost under $200 with all the couplings and glue, depending on where it is all purchased. It can be painted for sun protection if the o.p. doesn't want to bury it. Being so "cheap"inexpensive (as you say) I can't imagine anyone painting plastic tubing rather than occasionally replacing a portion... and it's not like it's going to deteriorate from UV within a short time... if not abused by kinking and driving vehicles over PVC it will last well over 10 years outdoors (no one paints their PVC drip systems either). And no one would use glue for an irrigation system, every professionally installed system I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of them and installed several myself, holds it all together with stainless steel crimp clamps, not screw type hose clamps, they use a stainless steel ring and crimping tool (fast, inexpensive, and neat - screw type hose clamps are expensive, difficult to work in dirt, and present a hazard due to the loose end). Gluing makes it difficult to make changes/repairs. http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/St...amps-s/189.htm |
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