[miamicuse]

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have both
walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling, depending on
what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that it's
cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example, one room
I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the electricians
did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so they punched
random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits. They told me it
would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the sheetrock guy says they
are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not be as good looking and it
will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly more
than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that ceiling down, I have to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. This is a
mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. I thought framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of the
top plate?

[chaniarts[_2_]]

MiamiCuse wrote:
snip
This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to
free the sheetrock. This is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond
blade to cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is
slow and dusty. I thought framing of the walls is done before
sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of the top plate?

walls were added after the house was built. now is the time to remove them
if you want.

otherwise, just cut the paper with a knife and leave what's on top of the
top page there.

[Eternal September]

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling,
depending on what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example,
one room I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so
they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits.
They told me it would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the
sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not be
as good looking and it will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly more
than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that ceiling down, I have
to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. This
is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. I thought
framing of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on
top of the top plate?
Patch the walls with 1/2" rock but fur out the studs and plates first using
1/4" plywood strips first.

elk

[[email protected]]

On Dec 14, 6:19*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house..
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. *Some rooms have both
walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling, depending on
what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that it's
cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. *For example, one room
I had five holes in the ceiling. *I did not make the holes, the electricians
did. *When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so they punched
random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits. *They told me it
would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. *Now the sheetrock guy says they
are not easy fix. *He can do it but it will not be as good looking and it
will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. *In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. *He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. *I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. *About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly more
than 3/4". *He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. *Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. *For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. *So to take that ceiling down, I have to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. *This is a
mess. *Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. *I thought framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? *How can sheetrock be on top of the
top plate?

i would gut everything which will make insulating very easy and
uncover any hidden problems that may be lurking under the surfaces to
be removed.

the job will look better if its all the same

[[email protected]]

On Dec 14, 7:09*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 14, 6:19*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:





This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. *Some rooms have both
walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling, depending on
what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that it's
cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. *For example, one room
I had five holes in the ceiling. *I did not make the holes, the electricians
did. *When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so they punched
random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits. *They told me it
would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. *Now the sheetrock guy says they
are not easy fix. *He can do it but it will not be as good looking and it
will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. *In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. *He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. *I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. *About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly more
than 3/4". *He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. *Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. *For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. *So to take that ceiling down, I have to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. *This is a
mess. *Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. *I thought framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? *How can sheetrock be on top of the
top plate?

i would gut everything which will make insulating very easy and
uncover any hidden problems that may be lurking under the surfaces to
be removed.

the job will look better if its all the same- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Without actually seeing it, of course, it's hard to give an accurate
opinion. But I tend to agree
that it's probably better to tear the rest out in any areas where
there are lots of holes,
height mis-matches, etc. Pros can put up new drywall really fast and
the material is not that costly.
I suggest you spell out that they use screws, not nails to install it,
so you don't have to deal with
nail pops over the years.

For the sheetrock to be embedded across the top plate, the wall would
have had to have been
added after the house was built. Either that or very strange
construction.

[Evan[_3_]]

On Dec 14, 6:19*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. *Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. *For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. *So to take that ceiling down, I have to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. *This is a
mess. *Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. *I thought framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? *How can sheetrock be on top of the
top plate?


OMG, ROFL...

Dude, this is another one of your bone head posts that leads anyone
with
actual remodeling and construction experience to question whether or
not
you should even touch tools...

It is 10 times easier to completely sheetrock bare walls and ceilings
than
it is to patch and paste and mud joints and scratch coat to end up
with
as flat as can be ceilings and walls when you are done... It is a lot
of
artful labor to blend in older walls with new work and is better done
with
one clean boundary joint in mind rather than a series of patches...

As to your removal method being dusty and slow, I would suggest that
you are not doing it properly and require at least one helper to
assist
your demo work by using a vacuum hose positioned close to where your
cutting tool is being used to cut down on the dust... You could demo
that stuff quicker with the right demo tools than making perfectly
square
cuts in something which you could break out close to the wall and then
hammer it from one side to pop out on the other...

In this case since you are again not using the proper tools or
techniques
and are out of your elements, this might be something you want to
contract out to someone good at doing demo... Removing the remaining
40% of the interior sheetrock in a home should not take days upon
days...

~~ Evan

[gls]

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ck-609698-.htm
gls wrote:
Miami, I've got the exact same deal as you; "mud" walls (3/8" gyp board
with a scratch and finish coat; about 3/4" thick) INCLUDING the hack where
a wall was added after a ceiling was done! I'll muddy the waters a bit by
saying that these are great walls that beat drywall in a lot of ways.
They are strong, smooth, and quiet. I like them better than sheetrock.
For small holes, I have used 5/8 drywall with a layer of compound over it
to bring it up to the thickness of the old wall. Where you have a large
amount of material to replace, you'll probably want to just rock the whole
thing. Either that or find a real plaster guy who can build the same kind
of wall, but that's probably big bucks. Good luck with it.

[miamicuse]

"chaniarts" wrote in message
...
MiamiCuse wrote:
snip
This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to
free the sheetrock. This is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond
blade to cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is
slow and dusty. I thought framing of the walls is done before
sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of the top plate?

walls were added after the house was built. now is the time to remove them
if you want.

otherwise, just cut the paper with a knife and leave what's on top of the
top page there.


That's the puzzling part, it looks original from the first construction,
unless they put up ceiling sheet rock then framed the interior.

[miamicuse]

"Eternal September" wrote in message
...

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I
should fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling,
depending on what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example,
one room I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so
they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits.
They told me it would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the
sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not
be as good looking and it will be more expensive then using new
sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat", then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a
pain to patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly
more than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and
the result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet
rock - all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and
new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free
the sheetrock. This is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to
cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and
dusty. I thought framing of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can
sheetrock be on top of the top plate?
Patch the walls with 1/2" rock but fur out the studs and plates first
using 1/4" plywood strips first.

elk

Yes that can be done. They sheetrock guy was telling me it's cheaper to
just go with a complete redo then spending a lot of time patching and fixing
things at different thicknesses and depth. I have looked at the walls in
different rooms, and it seems some walls are thicker than others. That
brown coat is not always the same thickness. He has a point but man this is
a lot of sheetrock to tear down and dispose. These are much heavier.

[miamicuse]

wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 7:09 pm, " wrote:
On Dec 14, 6:19 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:





This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I
should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both
walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling, depending
on
what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's
cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example, one
room
I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians
did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so they punched
random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits. They told me
it
would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the sheetrock guy says
they
are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not be as good looking and it
will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly
more
than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet
rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span
into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that ceiling down, I have
to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. This is
a
mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. I thought
framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of
the
top plate?

i would gut everything which will make insulating very easy and
uncover any hidden problems that may be lurking under the surfaces to
be removed.

the job will look better if its all the same- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Without actually seeing it, of course, it's hard to give an accurate
opinion. But I tend to agree
that it's probably better to tear the rest out in any areas where
there are lots of holes,
height mis-matches, etc. Pros can put up new drywall really fast and
the material is not that costly.
I suggest you spell out that they use screws, not nails to install it,
so you don't have to deal with
nail pops over the years.

For the sheetrock to be embedded across the top plate, the wall would
have had to have been
added after the house was built. Either that or very strange
construction.

Thanks for the screw reminder. I'll make sure to discuss that point with
him.

It could be both strange construction AND the walls framed after. The house
has a small span because it's a wrapped around house an interior courtyard,
so all the interior walls are non-load bearing, most of them are just there,
standing free without anything sitting on them. The walls are all framed to
be 100" tall. At the base is a 4" wide piece of wood, the three ply sheet
rock sits on top of this strip of wood, making the total height 100". The
wood is 3/4" thick, matching the rock thickness. I guess the wood makes
nailing baseboards easier.

[Dan Lanciani]

In article , (MiamiCuse) writes:

| He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that it's
| cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It's true. Putting up drywall from scratch is (at least for the pros) an
incredibly fast and efficient process. When I had cause to gut a small
room I was thinking of drywalling it myself but the quote was around what
I expected to spend for tools and materials. That said...

| The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
| sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
| then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
| patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

I have this on my ceilings and several variations (mostly without the metal)
on the walls. I like it a lot better than drywall. It has all the advantages
of old-style plaster combined with the inherent regularity provided by the
drywall base. In particular it does not dent if you bump it with a hard
object. Unless I were gutting for some other reason I'd try to keep this
for the walls. I don't bump the ceiling often so I wouldn't mind drywall
there as much.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

[Evan[_3_]]

On Dec 14, 10:27*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:


That's the puzzling part, it looks original from the first construction,
unless they put up ceiling sheet rock then framed the interior.


It is not that puzzling when you factor in that load bearing
partitions
go up in a building first, to carry the load of the floors or roof
above...
It is less laborious to sheetrock large square shaped areas and
install non-load bearing partitions after the ceiling has been
sheetrocked than it is to deal with maneuvering large 12' long
sheets in and out of a warren of smaller rooms... The additional
labor required by using smaller sheets or cutting down the longer
ones to make getting it in the rooms creates more non-factory side
edge to side edge joints which are more labor to properly tape and
mud...

How many penetrations from the walls put in after the ceiling
sheetrock went up through the ceiling for wiring and such are there
in those walls up into the attic or roof framing are there? Or does
all your wiring route around the exterior walls to get back to the
main panel?

~~ Evan

[Evan[_3_]]

On Dec 14, 10:31*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
"Eternal September" wrote in message

Patch the walls with 1/2" rock but fur out the studs and plates first
using 1/4" plywood strips first.

elk

Yes that can be done. *They sheetrock guy was telling me it's cheaper to
just go with a complete redo then spending a lot of time patching and fixing
things at different thicknesses and depth. *I have looked at the walls in
different rooms, and it seems some walls are thicker than others. *That
brown coat is not always the same thickness. *He has a point but man this is
a lot of sheetrock to tear down and dispose. *These are much heavier.



Yes, it is cheaper, because the large uncut sheets can go up VERY FAST
compared to having to measure and cut each sheet to fit around
whatever
patches of old stuff are left...

Not to mention all the fussing with scratch coating that will have to
happen
to blend in the materials of differing thicknesses...

Some walls are thicker than others because they were plastered by
different
people... One plasterer was clearly better at doing it because he or
she used
less material to finish the walls...

ROFLOL... How large is this house you are remodeling... Throwing
away
a bit more material should be nothing -- you should have a 60 yd. open
top
construction debris dumpster on site anyway for such an extensive
job...

Your time is better spent hiring someone to demo all this stuff for
you and
letting the sheetrock pros handle redoing your bare stud rooms...

~~ Evan

[Smitty Two]

In article
,
Evan wrote:

Your time is better spent hiring someone to demo all this stuff for
you and
letting the sheetrock pros handle redoing your bare stud rooms...

Uh, his time is better spent hiring people to do the work? So then he
can do what, exactly?

This is a DIY group, Evan. We do have quite a few professionals in one
field or another, and some who aren't professionals but like to play one
on usenet. Some of them are here to be helpful. This isn't a group
reserved for tradespeople to insult one another, nor to scoff at the
DIY'ers who come here for advice of various kinds.

The occasional smart ass remark is fine, but you seem to take particular
delight in picking on Miami. He's doing an *extensive* remodel. He's
been at it for a few years now (far longer than you've been around this
group,) has asked many questions about many things along the way. You're
right, he has little experience and some of his questions seem naive.
All the more reason to admire his courage. Judging from the many
pictures he's posted, his total project is way beyond what any lesser
DIY'er would have begun to attempt.

So why not man up, and give him something useful instead of constantly
telling him he isn't qualified to operate a screwdriver and a hammer.

[[email protected]]

Instead of removing all the old, is it possible to just put a new layer over
it?

--

dadiOH


get a quote for demo and debris removal, a quote to do a comlete new
drywall job, and a seperate quote for patch repair replace as needed.

get a seperate quote for a dumpster if needed and invite some friends
over to help with demo

you could go with blueboard and skim cote plaster, it costs more but
is far harder.

in any case all new will get you a far better looking job.

think of this how many times will you be doing this?

long term the rules on lead in paint will only get more strict, if you
replace everything all your walls will be lead free, a positive at
home sale time

[HerHusband]

MC,

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes,
that it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For
example, one room I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the
holes, the electricians did. When they rewired they did not get into
the attic, so they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the
wires and conduits. They told me it would be easy fix for the
sheetrock guys. Now the sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. He
can do it but it will not be as good looking and it will be more
expensive then using new sheetrock.

It might be worth it to patch one or two holes, but when you've reached
your swiss cheese state I would agree it would be easier to just gut and
start fresh.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not
typical sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a
"brown coat", then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said
it is a pain to patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

I've patched plaster and lath walls with layers of sheetrock. It's doable
when needed, but takes a lot more work and is difficult to blend.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to
free the sheetrock. This is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond
blade to cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is
slow and dusty. I thought framing of the walls is done before
sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of the top plate?

Demolition is messy work, no matter what you do. Tape plastic sheeting
over the doorways to keep dust out of the rest of the house, open the
window, lay down drop cloths to protect the flooring (and make cleanup
easier), and cover any duct openings. Of course, wear a dust mask and
safety glasses.

Then grab hammers, prybars, or whatever and start ripping things down.
Don't worry about being neat, it's going to be messy. Stop every now and
then to haul debris out of the room so it's not a tripping hazard or
getting in your way. Take it out the window, if possible, to avoid
tracking dust and dirt through the house.

As for the sheetrock over the walls, score the wall/ceiling corner with a
utility knife before pulling down the ceiling. It should break fairly
cleanly. If not, use a reciprocating saw to cut through whatever lath,
mesh, or whatever is in the way.

Since this is a DIY newsgroup, I would gut one room at a time, add
insulation if needed, then install the sheetrock myself using screws.
It's not that difficult, and sheetrock is fairly cheap if you do mess
something up. Even if you rent a drywall lift for the ceilings, it should
be cheaper than hiring out, and you won't have the entire house in a
state of demolition at the same time. You can hire out the joint taping
and mudding if you wish, but it's a fun skill to learn that you'll
probably use again later on. Start in the least visible room (utility
room, closet, etc.), and develop your skills as you move to more visible
rooms like the living room and kitchen.

Good luck,

Anthony

[[email protected]]

On Dec 15, 11:56*am, HerHusband wrote:
MC,

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes,
that it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. *For
example, one room I had five holes in the ceiling. *I did not make the
holes, the electricians did. *When they rewired they did not get into
the attic, so they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the
wires and conduits. *They told me it would be easy fix for the
sheetrock guys. *Now the sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. *He
can do it but it will not be as good looking and it will be more
expensive then using new sheetrock.

It might be worth it to patch one or two holes, but when you've reached
your swiss cheese state I would agree it would be easier to just gut and
start fresh.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not
typical sheet rock. *In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a
"brown coat", then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. *He said
it is a pain to patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

I've patched plaster and lath walls with layers of sheetrock. It's doable
when needed, but takes a lot more work and is difficult to blend.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. *Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. *For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. *So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to
free the sheetrock. *This is a mess. *Using a grinder with a diamond
blade to cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is
slow and dusty. *I thought framing of the walls is done before
sheetrock? *How can sheetrock be on top of the top plate?

Demolition is messy work, no matter what you do. *Tape plastic sheeting
over the doorways to keep dust out of the rest of the house, open the
window, lay down drop cloths to protect the flooring (and make cleanup
easier), and cover any duct openings. Of course, wear a dust mask and
safety glasses.

Then grab hammers, prybars, or whatever and start ripping things down.
Don't worry about being neat, it's going to be messy. Stop every now and
then to haul debris out of the room so it's not a tripping hazard or
getting in your way. Take it out the window, if possible, to avoid
tracking dust and dirt through the house.

As for the sheetrock over the walls, score the wall/ceiling corner with a
utility knife before pulling down the ceiling. It should break fairly
cleanly. *If not, use a reciprocating saw to cut through whatever lath,
mesh, or whatever is in the way.

Since this is a DIY newsgroup, I would gut one room at a time, add
insulation if needed, then install the sheetrock myself using screws.
It's not that difficult, and sheetrock is fairly cheap if you do mess
something up. Even if you rent a drywall lift for the ceilings, it should
be cheaper than hiring out, and you won't have the entire house in a
state of demolition at the same time. *You can hire out the joint taping
and mudding if you wish, but it's a fun skill to learn that you'll
probably use again later on. *Start in the least visible room (utility
room, closet, etc.), and develop your skills as you move to more visible
rooms like the living room and kitchen.

Good luck,

Anthony

it sounds like the home is near gutted already, so colateral damage
isnt such a big concern.

[Don Phillipson[_3_]]

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
. . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

[DD_BobK]

On Dec 15, 3:56*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*Evan wrote:
Your time is better spent hiring someone to demo all this stuff for
you and
letting the sheetrock pros handle redoing your bare stud rooms...

Uh, his time is better spent hiring people to do the work? So then he
can do what, exactly?

This is a DIY group, Evan. We do have quite a few professionals in one
field or another, and some who aren't professionals but like to play one
on usenet. Some of them are here to be helpful. This isn't a group
reserved for tradespeople to insult one another, nor to scoff at the
DIY'ers who come here for advice of various kinds.

The occasional smart ass remark is fine, but you seem to take particular
delight in picking on Miami. He's doing an *extensive* remodel. He's
been at it for a few years now (far longer than you've been around this
group,) has asked many questions about many things along the way. You're
right, he has little experience and some of his questions seem naive.
All the more reason to admire his courage. Judging from the many
pictures he's posted, his total project is way beyond what any lesser
DIY'er would have begun to attempt.

So why not man up, and give him something useful instead of constantly
telling him he isn't qualified to operate a screwdriver and a hammer.

Smitty-

Thanks for you commentary...... it was what I had in mind but mine
would not have been as well said.

Evan- Give the HVAC group a try, you'll fit right in.

cheers
Bob

[EXT]

What you have is most likely gypsum lath (not really called sheetrock) with
plaster. This is small 16" x 48" x 3/8" gypsum sheets (made to be plastered)
with brown coat base plaster covered with white finishing plaster. There
should not be wire mesh over the whole area, it was typically placed on
outside and inside corners and over areas prone to cracking such as the top
corners of doors and openings.

Unless you only have a couple of patches, it would be simpler to gut and
install regular drywall sheetrock. This is the ideal time to fix/add any
wiring, lights, switches, plumbing adjustments, and to upgrade the
insulation and install a code specified vapor barrier.

Rooms with minor fixes, could be patched, other areas with lots of openings
should be gutted. New drywall is relatively easy to install.


"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling,
depending on what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example,
one room I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so
they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits.
They told me it would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the
sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not be
as good looking and it will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly more
than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to span
into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that ceiling down, I have
to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. This
is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. I thought
framing of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on
top of the top plate?

[Oren[_2_]]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:44:13 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

Evan- Give the HVAC group a try, you'll fit right in.

Oh no! A place back behind the down yonder. Give 'em Swill. Hang 'em
from the shackles.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:30:18 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
. ..

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my house.
. . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

A valid point. A sheet rocker, drywaller, and a plaster are different
animals.

ISTR the op's house is in Coconut Grove, just off Biscayne Bay.

Many of these homes are still repaired, trying to keep in favor of
historical features.

Jose and Hose B can hang sheet rock!

[miamicuse]

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. . . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


I do believe him, of course it is easier and cheaper to have a fresh canvas
to hang new sheetrock. However, I have to factor in the cost of demolition
and disposal, as well as resetting depth of electrical boxes and recessed
lights that will now protrude outside of the new 1/2" sheetrock, as well as
window sills and doors that would be impacted by this. It seems to trade
one headache with another. Cost and time aside, the new sheetrock will look
better, but the exterior walls will be thinner, and less sound proofing.

I guess another thing is I should have asked the electricians run the wiring
in the attic instead of pounding holes wherever they feel like, or at least
insist that they cut neat holes instead of using a hammer and pound it out,
in some cases all they need is a hole the size of a fist, but they pound and
cracked an area 18" wide. The drywall guy says these holes are a pain in
the butt.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010275.jpg

Last time I hired a demo crew, after they took down three 18' dumpster full
of the marked ceilings and walls, they left me with nails and staples spaced
8-10" apart along every furring, stud on every wall and ceiling. It took
myself and a helper 2 days to pull all the nails and staples out afterwards,
I had a sore neck for days, so I am not looking forward to it, that's all.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010313.jpg

[miamicuse]

EXT, this sounds about right. Here is a picture.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1000573.jpg

The bottom layer looks like gypsum, it has a paper backing, I can see from
the backside of it it is in panels. The layer above it is darker in color
and slightly thicker. At first I thought this is another layer of gypsum
board, but if you can see, this layer "fills" in the joint between the two
panels. So this is applied on top of it. Then there is a layer of white
plaster as thin as eggshell on top, under the paint.

Here is another picture, except this one shows the middle coat has the
embedded wiremesh. It seems to be more than just at corners, but yes
definitely at the joints and corners.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1000574.jpg

This stuff is impossible to cut with regular saw blade. The typical
recipricating saw's metal blade does nothing to it. A carbide blade will
cut better, but dulls after a few cuts. The only thing I can get to cut it
is using an angle grinder with a diamond blade, that would chew through the
brown coat and mesh good.


"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
What you have is most likely gypsum lath (not really called sheetrock)
with plaster. This is small 16" x 48" x 3/8" gypsum sheets (made to be
plastered) with brown coat base plaster covered with white finishing
plaster. There should not be wire mesh over the whole area, it was
typically placed on outside and inside corners and over areas prone to
cracking such as the top corners of doors and openings.

Unless you only have a couple of patches, it would be simpler to gut and
install regular drywall sheetrock. This is the ideal time to fix/add any
wiring, lights, switches, plumbing adjustments, and to upgrade the
insulation and install a code specified vapor barrier.

Rooms with minor fixes, could be patched, other areas with lots of
openings should be gutted. New drywall is relatively easy to install.


"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I
should fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling,
depending on what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example,
one room I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so
they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits.
They told me it would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the
sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not
be as good looking and it will be more expensive then using new
sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat", then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a
pain to patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly
more than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and
the result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet
rock - all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and
new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free
the sheetrock. This is a mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to
cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and
dusty. I thought framing of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can
sheetrock be on top of the top plate?

[Joe]

On Dec 15, 4:23*pm, Oren wrote:


snip

Jose and Hose B can hang sheet rock!

Any faster than Hozsee and Hose D?

Joe

[Dan Lanciani]

In article , (MiamiCuse) writes:

| Here is another picture, except this one shows the middle coat has the
| embedded wiremesh. It seems to be more than just at corners, but yes
| definitely at the joints and corners.

I have the wire mesh over wood on the ceilings; not so much on the walls. I
think one wall actually has wood lath. Some walls have a type of board with
a shiny metallic covering (vapor barrier?) as the base. This was all done
at original construction (~1959) so I think they were experimenting with
different materials. I have a collection of core samples from the various
holes I've made over the years.

| This stuff is impossible to cut with regular saw blade.

It also chews up hole saws. I get maybe one or two holes per saw with
typical bi-metal blades...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Dec 15, 6:34*pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:
EXT, this sounds about right. *Here is a picture.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1000573.jpg

The bottom layer looks like gypsum, it has a paper backing, I can see from
the backside of it it is in panels. *The layer above it is darker in color
and slightly thicker. *At first I thought this is another layer of gypsum
board, but if you can see, this layer "fills" in the joint between the two
panels. *So this is applied on top of it. *Then there is a layer of white
plaster as thin as eggshell on top, under the paint.

Here is another picture, except this one shows the middle coat has the
embedded wiremesh. *It seems to be more than just at corners, but yes
definitely at the joints and corners.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1000574.jpg

This stuff is impossible to cut with regular saw blade. *The typical
recipricating saw's metal blade does nothing to it. *A carbide blade will
cut better, but dulls after a few cuts. *The only thing I can get to cut it
is using an angle grinder with a diamond blade, that would chew through the
brown coat and mesh good.

"EXT" wrote in message

anews.com...



What you have is most likely gypsum lath (not really called sheetrock)
with plaster. This is small 16" x 48" x 3/8" gypsum sheets (made to be
plastered) with brown coat base plaster covered with white finishing
plaster. There should not be wire mesh over the whole area, it was
typically placed on outside and inside corners and over areas prone to
cracking such as the top corners of doors and openings.

Unless you only have a couple of patches, it would be simpler to gut and
install regular drywall sheetrock. This is the ideal time to fix/add any
wiring, lights, switches, plumbing adjustments, and to upgrade the
insulation and install a code specified vapor barrier.

Rooms with minor fixes, could be patched, other areas with lots of
openings should be gutted. New drywall is relatively easy to install.

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
. ..
This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I
should fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. *Some rooms have
both walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling,
depending on what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. *For example,
one room I had five holes in the ceiling. *I did not make the holes, the
electricians did. *When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so
they punched random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits..
They told me it would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. *Now the
sheetrock guy says they are not easy fix. *He can do it but it will not
be as good looking and it will be more expensive then using new
sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. *In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat", then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. *He said it is a
pain to patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. *I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. *About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock..
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly
more than 3/4". *He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and
the result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet
rock - all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and
new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. *Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span into other rooms. *For example, one interior wall's top plate
actually is below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched
between the top plate and the bottom of the joist. *So to take that
ceiling down, I have to make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free
the sheetrock. *This is a mess. *Using a grinder with a diamond blade to
cut through this sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and
dusty. *I thought framing of the walls is done before sheetrock? *How can
sheetrock be on top of the top plate?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We have plaster directly over 1/2" sheetrock. Sometimes a pain, but
we love the additional soundproofing you get with the plaster, both
from outside noises and from adjacent rooms inside the house.,

[benick[_2_]]

wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 7:09 pm, " wrote:
On Dec 14, 6:19 pm, "MiamiCuse" wrote:





This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house.
After he looked it over he gave me some valuable advice and said I
should
fix a few things first then call him to do the job.

So here are some of the things I am fixing.

In my house, about 60% of the sheetrock were removed. Some rooms have
both
walls and ceiling removed, some only walls, some only ceiling, depending
on
what was being modified.

He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's
cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch. For example, one
room
I had five holes in the ceiling. I did not make the holes, the
electricians
did. When they rewired they did not get into the attic, so they punched
random holes in my ceiling to pass the wires and conduits. They told me
it
would be easy fix for the sheetrock guys. Now the sheetrock guy says
they
are not easy fix. He can do it but it will not be as good looking and it
will be more expensive then using new sheetrock.

The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat",
then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

Same with a hallway. I have one hallway that is fifty feet long. About
thirty feet of this sheetrock was removed and now we have to put new.
Again, he said, rip out the other twenty feet, put new 1/2" sheet rock.
Otherwise, I will have to match the old "thickness" which is slightly
more
than 3/4". He said it would be expensive to mix 1/2" and 3/4" and the
result may be questionable.

So in a null shell, he is recommending that I demolish ALL my sheet
rock -
all walls, all ceilings instead of dealing with a mix of old and new.

This week, I started to look at demolishing one room's ceiling, and
immediately ran into problems. Some sheetrock in the ceiling seem to
span
into other rooms. For example, one interior wall's top plate actually is
below the sheetrock, meaning the sheetrock is sandwiched between the top
plate and the bottom of the joist. So to take that ceiling down, I have
to
make a cut on both sides of the top plate to free the sheetrock. This is
a
mess. Using a grinder with a diamond blade to cut through this
sheetrock/brown coat/plaster/wire mesh is slow and dusty. I thought
framing
of the walls is done before sheetrock? How can sheetrock be on top of
the
top plate?

i would gut everything which will make insulating very easy and
uncover any hidden problems that may be lurking under the surfaces to
be removed.

the job will look better if its all the same- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Without actually seeing it, of course, it's hard to give an accurate
opinion. But I tend to agree
that it's probably better to tear the rest out in any areas where
there are lots of holes,
height mis-matches, etc. Pros can put up new drywall really fast and
the material is not that costly.
I suggest you spell out that they use screws, not nails to install it,
so you don't have to deal with
nail pops over the years.

For the sheetrock to be embedded across the top plate, the wall would
have had to have been
added after the house was built. Either that or very strange
construction.



Nobody has used nails to install sheetrock since the invention of the
screwgun...LOL...And you still get pops sometimes...Things STILL move...

[benick[_2_]]

"Dan Lanciani" ddl@danlan.*com wrote in message
...
In article ,
(MiamiCuse) writes:

| He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's
| cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It's true. Putting up drywall from scratch is (at least for the pros) an
incredibly fast and efficient process. When I had cause to gut a small
room I was thinking of drywalling it myself but the quote was around what
I expected to spend for tools and materials. That said...

| The reason he said these are hard to patch, is because it is not typical
| sheet rock. In some areas he said I have sheet rock, then a "brown
coat",
| then plaster, with embeded wire mesh in them. He said it is a pain to
| patch, and difficult to patch perfectly.

I have this on my ceilings and several variations (mostly without the
metal)
on the walls. I like it a lot better than drywall. It has all the
advantages
of old-style plaster combined with the inherent regularity provided by the
drywall base. In particular it does not dent if you bump it with a hard
object. Unless I were gutting for some other reason I'd try to keep this
for the walls. I don't bump the ceiling often so I wouldn't mind drywall
there as much.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com



It is called Plaster Board or Blue Board with Basecoat Plaster and Finish
Coat Plaster and it is probably the best you can get...Trying to patch it
with plaster is a PITA and VERY expensive and messy...

[benick[_2_]]

wrote in message
...

Instead of removing all the old, is it possible to just put a new layer
over
it?

--

dadiOH


get a quote for demo and debris removal, a quote to do a comlete new
drywall job, and a seperate quote for patch repair replace as needed.

get a seperate quote for a dumpster if needed and invite some friends
over to help with demo

you could go with blueboard and skim cote plaster, it costs more but
is far harder.

in any case all new will get you a far better looking job.

think of this how many times will you be doing this?

long term the rules on lead in paint will only get more strict, if you
replace everything all your walls will be lead free, a positive at
home sale time


Skimcoat plaster is only done by HACKS...Basecoat with Finish Coat over
Plaster Board is the proper way to go...

[benick[_2_]]

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:30:18 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
.. .

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house.
. . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

A valid point. A sheet rocker, drywaller, and a plaster are different
animals.

ISTR the op's house is in Coconut Grove, just off Biscayne Bay.

Many of these homes are still repaired, trying to keep in favor of
historical features.

Jose and Hose B can hang sheet rock!

"A valid point. A sheet rocker, drywaller, and a plaster are different
animals."

Well you're ALMOST right..A sheetrocker and drywaller are the same thing and
refers to installing both sheetrock and plaster board which is the same
proceedure...A Taper tapes the sheetrock with joint compound..A Plasterer
puts the plaster on... Some including me can do ALL the above...Been at it
25+years...

[benick[_2_]]

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. . . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


I do believe him, of course it is easier and cheaper to have a fresh
canvas to hang new sheetrock. However, I have to factor in the cost of
demolition and disposal, as well as resetting depth of electrical boxes
and recessed lights that will now protrude outside of the new 1/2"
sheetrock, as well as window sills and doors that would be impacted by
this. It seems to trade one headache with another. Cost and time aside,
the new sheetrock will look better, but the exterior walls will be
thinner, and less sound proofing.

I guess another thing is I should have asked the electricians run the
wiring in the attic instead of pounding holes wherever they feel like, or
at least insist that they cut neat holes instead of using a hammer and
pound it out, in some cases all they need is a hole the size of a fist,
but they pound and cracked an area 18" wide. The drywall guy says these
holes are a pain in the butt.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010275.jpg

Last time I hired a demo crew, after they took down three 18' dumpster
full of the marked ceilings and walls, they left me with nails and staples
spaced 8-10" apart along every furring, stud on every wall and ceiling.
It took myself and a helper 2 days to pull all the nails and staples out
afterwards, I had a sore neck for days, so I am not looking forward to it,
that's all.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010313.jpg



You should believe him as he is correct..Trying to patch up old plaster
walls and ESPECIALLY ceilings almost never ends up looking good and will
cost you just as much.I hope you didn't pay the hacks you hired to do your
last demo as it includes pulling the nails..Atleast all the demo guys I have
hired...HTH...Good luck with your project...

[Evan[_3_]]

On Dec 15, 6:56*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*Evan wrote:
Your time is better spent hiring someone to demo all this stuff for
you and
letting the sheetrock pros handle redoing your bare stud rooms...

Uh, his time is better spent hiring people to do the work? So then he
can do what, exactly?


So then he can spend less time asking elementary questions on
newsgroups and trying to come up with ways to do manual work
with power tools that require flat bars and sledge hammers...

He can spend time doing what home owners should be doing,
looking in showrooms at interior finishes for the tradesworkers
doing the remodeling to install when the project gets to that
point...

So then he won't come back on here complaining about how his
neck or his knees hurt... Or how the fancy new power palm nailer
he bought wasn't able to nail what he wanted to nail with it...

Its clear that MiamiCuse *thinks* he can act as his own G.C.
but he clearly doesn't possess all the skills and physical
endurance he needs to do that sort of thing...

It is cheaper for him to stop the nickel and dime games and
asking his weird little questions of all the people he calls in
for estimates... He needs to either do the work himself or
pay the contractors what they quote him...


This is a DIY group, Evan. We do have quite a few professionals in one
field or another, and some who aren't professionals but like to play one
on usenet. Some of them are here to be helpful. This isn't a group
reserved for tradespeople to insult one another, nor to scoff at the
DIY'ers who come here for advice of various kinds.


A DIY'er is one thing -- but this project is clearly more than that...

To ask silly questions about how to attach this or that to the wall
or describing the asinine way he is experimenting to work around
not having to swing a hammer and pry bar to do the demo work
himself is enough... You don't need to re-invent the wheel...


The occasional smart ass remark is fine, but you seem to take particular
delight in picking on Miami. He's doing an *extensive* remodel. He's
been at it for a few years now (far longer than you've been around this
group,) has asked many questions about many things along the way. You're
right, he has little experience and some of his questions seem naive.
All the more reason to admire his courage. Judging from the many
pictures he's posted, his total project is way beyond what any lesser
DIY'er would have begun to attempt.


Yup... And oddly enough there is this little thing called a search
function and I have read most of his posts... The ones I am most
familiar with were from the alt.locksmithing newsgroup where he
came to ask rather insane questions about some door locks he
wasn't familiar with where he first explained the odd ways he has
with contractors and tradespeople...


So why not man up, and give him something useful instead of constantly
telling him he isn't qualified to operate a screwdriver and a hammer.


Well, if you add up all the questions he has ever asked on UseNet
about everything he has ever asked he really isn't...

I don't give any quarter to people who get in over their heads and
then expect other people to help them out for free, especially when
MiamiCuse clearly has the means to afford hiring contractors to
do the work he either doesn't know how to practically do or doesn't
want to have a sore neck/back/knees after doing...

To hear him whine and moan about the cost of a construction
dumpster to remove additional debris and many of his other
issues is amusing... He made his choice to get into this project,
when he comes running here asking for what amounts to step by
step directions to deal with his latest oversight, he gets what he
gets... Its like when the electrician or plumber sends their new
apprentice to the supply store to get a wire or pipe extender tool...
Ask stupid repetitive questions that demonstrate a clear trend and
you invite backlash...

He is an engineer who thinks that because he can see how everything
relates to each other in the system of a house that he will be able to
figure out the techniques to do the actual work required of a given
project...

He also has demonstrated a clear tendency to want the cheapest
possible solutions at every turn... Well you either pay with your
wallet or with your blood, sweat and tears in construction... There
is no cheap way to do home improvement work other than to not
do it or somehow magically get free building materials to do your
project with...

~~ Evan

[miamicuse]

"benick" wrote in message
. ..
"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

This week I had someone come and bid on installing sheet rock on my
house. . . .
He said that in some rooms, where I asked him to patch some holes, that
it's cheaper and easier to gut and replace then to patch.

It sounds as if you disbelieve him. A second local estimate
may help you decide.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


I do believe him, of course it is easier and cheaper to have a fresh
canvas to hang new sheetrock. However, I have to factor in the cost of
demolition and disposal, as well as resetting depth of electrical boxes
and recessed lights that will now protrude outside of the new 1/2"
sheetrock, as well as window sills and doors that would be impacted by
this. It seems to trade one headache with another. Cost and time aside,
the new sheetrock will look better, but the exterior walls will be
thinner, and less sound proofing.

I guess another thing is I should have asked the electricians run the
wiring in the attic instead of pounding holes wherever they feel like, or
at least insist that they cut neat holes instead of using a hammer and
pound it out, in some cases all they need is a hole the size of a fist,
but they pound and cracked an area 18" wide. The drywall guy says these
holes are a pain in the butt.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010275.jpg

Last time I hired a demo crew, after they took down three 18' dumpster
full of the marked ceilings and walls, they left me with nails and
staples spaced 8-10" apart along every furring, stud on every wall and
ceiling. It took myself and a helper 2 days to pull all the nails and
staples out afterwards, I had a sore neck for days, so I am not looking
forward to it, that's all.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/P1010313.jpg



You should believe him as he is correct..Trying to patch up old plaster
walls and ESPECIALLY ceilings almost never ends up looking good and will
cost you just as much.I hope you didn't pay the hacks you hired to do your
last demo as it includes pulling the nails..Atleast all the demo guys I
have hired...HTH...Good luck with your project...

Thank you, the ceiling has a texture now, not popcorn but a circular
sweeping brush finish which I do not like, so that's another benefit I guess
is I get to have new smooth looking ceiling.

[Colbyt]

"MiamiCuse" wrote in message
...

"benick" wrote in message
. ..
I do believe him, of course it is easier and cheaper to have a fresh
canvas to hang new sheetrock. However, I have to factor in the cost of
demolition and disposal, as well as resetting depth of electrical boxes
and recessed lights that will now protrude outside of the new 1/2"
sheetrock, as well as window sills and doors that would be impacted by
this. It seems to trade one headache with another. Cost and time
aside, the new sheetrock will look better, but the exterior walls will
be thinner, and less sound proofing.


You are thinking "inside the box".

I have demoed many a plaster wall and gone back with drywall. One need only
fur out the studs or joists to achieve the proper finished height. You can
buy 4x8 sheets of 1/4, 3/16, 3/8, 7/16 or 5/8 plywood or osb and run them
through a table saw to create a furring strip of the proper height. This is
just no big deal. They install really fast using a nail gun as they only
need to be tacked into place. The 1-5/8 drywall screw will go all the way
through to the stud behind.

The cost of the wood is far less than moving all the boxes and modifying the
jambs.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

[Oren[_2_]]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:51:12 -0500, "benick"
wrote:

Nobody has used nails to install sheetrock since the invention of the
screwgun...LOL...And you still get pops sometimes...Things STILL move...

When in my teens we hung with "blue nails" and used a lath hatchet
with the blade on it.

At the end of the day, our lips were blue from the nails held in our
mouth. Spit a nail out, tap and sink it. You get fast at it G.

[Vic Smith]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:23:33 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:


I do believe him, of course it is easier and cheaper to have a fresh canvas
to hang new sheetrock. However, I have to factor in the cost of demolition
and disposal, as well as resetting depth of electrical boxes and recessed
lights that will now protrude outside of the new 1/2" sheetrock, as well as
window sills and doors that would be impacted by this. It seems to trade
one headache with another. Cost and time aside, the new sheetrock will look
better, but the exterior walls will be thinner, and less sound proofing.


Good points.
The studs will have to be shimmed to reproduce the old plaster depth.
I had an adjuster fix my house after a fire, came home from work, and
found the kitchen drywalled and doors and windows cased.
The casings had a 1/4" gap to the drywall.
Made them tear it all out and shim.
That was a nightmare, but any good drywaller can shim easily enough.
Doesn't add much to cost.
I won't even mention how I had to show the adjuster's "carpenter" how
to cut stair stringers.
It was a "learning experience" for everybody.
You want to avoid that by getting the right people.

--Vic

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:34:09 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
wrote:

You should believe him as he is correct..Trying to patch up old plaster
walls and ESPECIALLY ceilings almost never ends up looking good and will
cost you just as much.I hope you didn't pay the hacks you hired to do your
last demo as it includes pulling the nails..Atleast all the demo guys I
have hired...HTH...Good luck with your project...

Thank you, the ceiling has a texture now, not popcorn but a circular
sweeping brush finish which I do not like, so that's another benefit I guess
is I get to have new smooth looking ceiling.

Those brush strokes were placed on using a wet bristle brush (c.
40-60's). One could select the texture as a border (ceiling or wall or
both for a border). Many ceiling rooms were completely brushed by
using various patterns. Even have a ceiling wagon wheel around the
light fixture. Sure sign of plaster, imo...

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:44:12 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

That was a nightmare, but any good drywaller can shim easily enough.
Doesn't add much to cost.

In my area, tall walls are _shaved and shimmed_. One man on the
drywall crew uses an electric hand planer, long level and shaves the
wall stud edge a bit for plumb or staples on dense cardboard shims
(days ahead of the hanging crew). With 14 ft. ceilings it really takes
out all the waves or imperfections.

[JIMMIE]

On Dec 16, 1:15*am, Evan wrote:
On Dec 15, 6:56*am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,

*Evan wrote:
Your time is better spent hiring someone to demo all this stuff for
you and
letting the sheetrock pros handle redoing your bare stud rooms...

Uh, his time is better spent hiring people to do the work? So then he
can do what, exactly?

So then he can spend less time asking elementary questions on
newsgroups and trying to come up with ways to do manual work
with power tools that require flat bars and sledge hammers...

He can spend time doing what home owners should be doing,
looking in showrooms at interior finishes for the tradesworkers
doing the remodeling to install when the project gets to that
point...

So then he won't come back on here complaining about how his
neck or his knees hurt... *Or how the fancy new power palm nailer
he bought wasn't able to nail what he wanted to nail with it...

Its clear that MiamiCuse *thinks* he can act as his own G.C.
but he clearly doesn't possess all the skills and physical
endurance he needs to do that sort of thing...

It is cheaper for him to stop the nickel and dime games and
asking his weird little questions of all the people he calls in
for estimates... *He needs to either do the work himself or
pay the contractors what they quote him...

This is a DIY group, Evan. We do have quite a few professionals in one
field or another, and some who aren't professionals but like to play one
on usenet. Some of them are here to be helpful. This isn't a group
reserved for tradespeople to insult one another, nor to scoff at the
DIY'ers who come here for advice of various kinds.

A DIY'er is one thing -- but this project is clearly more than that...

To ask silly questions about how to attach this or that to the wall
or describing the asinine way he is experimenting to work around
not having to swing a hammer and pry bar to do the demo work
himself is enough... *You don't need to re-invent the wheel...

The occasional smart ass remark is fine, but you seem to take particular
delight in picking on Miami. He's doing an *extensive* remodel. He's
been at it for a few years now (far longer than you've been around this
group,) has asked many questions about many things along the way. You're
right, he has little experience and some of his questions seem naive.
All the more reason to admire his courage. Judging from the many
pictures he's posted, his total project is way beyond what any lesser
DIY'er would have begun to attempt.

Yup... *And oddly enough there is this little thing called a search
function and I have read most of his posts... *The ones I am most
familiar with were from the alt.locksmithing newsgroup where he
came to ask rather insane questions about some door locks he
wasn't familiar with where he first explained the odd ways he has
with contractors and tradespeople...

So why not man up, and give him something useful instead of constantly
telling him he isn't qualified to operate a screwdriver and a hammer.

Well, if you add up all the questions he has ever asked on UseNet
about everything he has ever asked he really isn't...

I don't give any quarter to people who get in over their heads and
then expect other people to help them out for free, especially when
MiamiCuse clearly has the means to afford hiring contractors to
do the work he either doesn't know how to practically do or doesn't
want to have a sore neck/back/knees after doing...

To hear him whine and moan about the cost of a construction
dumpster to remove additional debris and many of his other
issues is amusing... *He made his choice to get into this project,
when he comes running here asking for what amounts to step by
step directions to deal with his latest oversight, he gets what he
gets... *Its like when the electrician or plumber sends their new
apprentice to the supply store to get a wire or pipe extender tool...
Ask stupid repetitive questions that demonstrate a clear trend and
you invite backlash...

He is an engineer who thinks that because he can see how everything
relates to each other in the system of a house that he will be able to
figure out the techniques to do the actual work required of a given
project...

He also has demonstrated a clear tendency to want the cheapest
possible solutions at every turn... *Well you either pay with your
wallet or with your blood, sweat and tears in construction... *There
is no cheap way to do home improvement work other than to not
do it or somehow magically get free building materials to do your
project with...

~~ Evan

I am witness to a 5 ft tall 100 lb girl tearing out all the lathe and
plaster in her old farm house she bought and replace it with drywall.
She had never done anything like this but was determined to have her
own house. She shimed everthing that needed shiming and got it as true
as any pro could have. The only thing she hired out was the mud work.
She could have done that but it was getting to be a bit much for her
physically.After the walls were finished she painted the walls and
refinished the wood floors herself. Old concrete swimming pool had a
crack all the way across it, everyone told her to fill it in. She
chiseled out the crack by hand and patched it with hydraulic concrete.
She did eventually fill it in because she relized it was a saftey
hazard and liability when her niece got hurt in it..I believe with
determination and patience a DIYer can often do as well as the pros.

Jimmie