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#82
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
Here is a good primer on soldering and tinning (using conduction
soldering - i.e., a simple soldering iron) http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13553662...ing-Techniques |
#83
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
I usually screw up when I'm under tension, going around an edge, and
some inner surface rips all my clothes off. Don't you usually trim text? -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:47:11 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/30/2010 7:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:02:14 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 11:53 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:12:57 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:13 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:55:01 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 29, 12:51 pm, Steve wrote: On 11/29/2010 7:14 AM, Hank wrote: On Nov 29, 12:26 am, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. Also, when 1 solder two wires together, I twist the wires together, then hold the iron to one side of the wire and hold the solder to the opposite site. The wire should get hot and soak up the solder, right? I've been practicing but it seems to be hit or miss so far. Bonnie As one beginner to another..... First, I don't know much if anything about soldering, but I do solder wires wires together pretty often. Second, I only solder either aluminum or copper wires, which are easy. Third, the advise you have received here is good, but they didn't mention that the wire has to be clean too. If the wire is old and oxidized, it has to be clipped off or cleaned too. Fourth, use a resin core solder. Fifth, I scape off my tips with a knife. I have even used a bench grinder to grind them back to a point. Then I heat up the iron and melt solder on the tip which helps clean it, then wipe off the excess solder. Hope these little tips help. Hank~~~assuming it is a Pencil type soldering iron you don't solder aluminum. You might think you are, but no, you're not. -- Steve Barker Like I said, I don't know much about soldering. I'm pretty sure the wire is aluminum and stranded. It is high quality aircraft wire. It is silver in color. Maybe its some alloy. Anyway, what I'm doing is working for me. :-) Hank Aircraft wire is silver plated or tinned copper - and one of the easiest types of wire to solder - it is "pre-tinned" The stuff with the Teflon insulation? TDD Virtually all of it. Teflon, Tefzel, and all the other fancy schmansy stuff. I love that wire for electronics work and surprise, it's the best wire in the world for soldering to those Bendix aerospace connectors and making wiring harnesses. :-) Teflon insulation doesn't burn but it does creep. It's not good around anything even slightly sharp. You mean it will slowly flow apart if it rests on a sharp edge and cause a short circuit? Yep. We used to have that problem with teflon insulated wire-wrap wire. The Gardner-Denver machines could work with it reliably, but it was easy to screw up by tightening the wires too tight. The intermittents would drive ya' crazy. The tough nylon jacket on THHN seems to resist that sort of break in the insulation. Geez, I just thought of the thousands of feet of that stuff I've pulled into conduits and cable trays over the years. :-) It generally happens when its under tension going around an edge. |
#84
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
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#85
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
In article ,
Tony Miklos wrote: On 11/30/2010 12:39 AM, Smitty Two wrote: In , Tony wrote: Well it's been 31 years soldering electronics for a living for me, and sorry, I don't use, nor need liquid flux. Soldering electronics for a living, or making a living that involves some soldering? I've had the liquid flux debate a number of times over on s.e.r., and I'll say it again he If you don't use liquid flux, you don't know what you're missing. Or, you don't really solder all that much, and time and quality aren't all that important. Some things, some times, sure, the flux core is enough. Nevertheless, go to *any* facility where hand soldering is done on a production basis, and you'll find a flux bottle at every workstation. Those little bottles aren't there to gather dust. Well I'm open to trying something new (to me anyway). What brand and where do you buy the liquid flux you use? Is it supposed to be washed off like rosin? I buy it from distributors in my area who sell to industry. Mostly EIS, and Wassco. For hand soldering, Kester 1544 is a good formula. It's an RMA flux (RMA standing for Rosin, Mildly Activated) It does not need to be washed off, but can be cleaned off with isopropyl and a Q-tip if you like. The dispenser bottles are little plastic squeeze type with a fine gauge stainless needle. |
#86
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:24:27 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: I usually screw up when I'm under tension, going around an edge, and some inner surface rips all my clothes off. But you've never been wrapped four times around a .025" post. Don't you usually trim text? Sometimes, if the history gets unwieldy, always with you because of your dumbass posting style. |
#87
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 11/30/2010 9:33 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In , Tony wrote: On 11/30/2010 12:39 AM, Smitty Two wrote: In , Tony wrote: Well it's been 31 years soldering electronics for a living for me, and sorry, I don't use, nor need liquid flux. Soldering electronics for a living, or making a living that involves some soldering? I've had the liquid flux debate a number of times over on s.e.r., and I'll say it again he If you don't use liquid flux, you don't know what you're missing. Or, you don't really solder all that much, and time and quality aren't all that important. Some things, some times, sure, the flux core is enough. Nevertheless, go to *any* facility where hand soldering is done on a production basis, and you'll find a flux bottle at every workstation. Those little bottles aren't there to gather dust. Well I'm open to trying something new (to me anyway). What brand and where do you buy the liquid flux you use? Is it supposed to be washed off like rosin? I buy it from distributors in my area who sell to industry. Mostly EIS, and Wassco. For hand soldering, Kester 1544 is a good formula. It's an RMA flux (RMA standing for Rosin, Mildly Activated) It does not need to be washed off, but can be cleaned off with isopropyl and a Q-tip if you like. The dispenser bottles are little plastic squeeze type with a fine gauge stainless needle. I probably have a small brush in top bottle of liquid flux somewhere that I used when repairing cold solder joints on circuit boards when I did it for a living. Quite often no extra solder was needed, just a smidgen of flux and touch from the soldering iron. The bit of solder on the tip of the iron would usually take care of it. There are times when I'm suspicious that the weight of a unsupported component is the cause of the problem, a hot melt glue gun is also a useful thing to have on the repair bench. I had guys in the repair depot think I was nuts for slamming portable equipment down on to my workbench after repairing it. I had to explain that the gear was going to get a lot rougher treatment out in the field. :-) TDD |
#88
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
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#89
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
"Jeff Thies" wrote in message ... On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. If you have trouble tinning it is either because you can't get the solder hot enough or the tip is not clean enough. Sounds to me that you are using the wrong solder, too large and wrong type. This 95 SN 5 SB stuff may be the European solder. From what I have read they have gone lead free in the electronics soldering. Also you are not suspose to mix the two when repairing the equipment as they do not work well together. I don't even like that sn/sb for soldering pipes. I still have a couple of pounds of the 50/50 tin/lead solder for my pipes if I need it. About 30 years ago my wife and I were watching tv about the moonshine makers. They mentioned the lead in the pipes and I told here one day the trr huggers would say not to use the lead solder in the pipes. Sure enough , they have. |
#90
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/1/2010 10:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message ... On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. If you have trouble tinning it is either because you can't get the solder hot enough or the tip is not clean enough. Sounds to me that you are using the wrong solder, too large and wrong type. This 95 SN 5 SB stuff may be the European solder. From what I have read they have gone lead free in the electronics soldering. Also you are not suspose to mix the two when repairing the equipment as they do not work well together. I don't even like that sn/sb for soldering pipes. I still have a couple of pounds of the 50/50 tin/lead solder for my pipes if I need it. About 30 years ago my wife and I were watching tv about the moonshine makers. They mentioned the lead in the pipes and I told here one day the trr huggers would say not to use the lead solder in the pipes. Sure enough , they have. Moonshiners were/are using car radiators to distill their product which was imparting all sorts of toxic substances into their mountain dew. TDD |
#91
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff Thies
wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. ROSIN CORE solder is NOT plumbing solder. If you have trouble tinning it is either because you can't get the solder hot enough or the tip is not clean enough. Sounds to me that you are using the wrong solder, too large and wrong type. Lead free electronic solder is a royal pain - period. I always just used a damp folded up paper towel to wipe the tip. You can sand or file the tip if you need to get one more use out of it, don't otherwise. Also, when 1 solder two wires together, I twist the wires together, then hold the iron to one side of the wire and hold the solder to the opposite site. I heat the junction and feed in the solder at the junction, not on the tip. But close to where everything meets. I was in the electronic repair business just about forever. I wound up soldering stuff I could barely see (SMD LSI) even with reading glasses! Jeff The wire should get hot and soak up the solder, right? I've been practicing but it seems to be hit or miss so far. Bonnie The wire should get hot and the solder should wick up the wire. Putting the solder at the junction of the iron and the wire - or on a printed circuit, more correctly at the junction of the pad and the iron, enhances the heat flow. When the solder wets the pad, you slide the iron against the component lead, and the solder should very quickly wet the lead as well, forming a smooth fillet from the pad to the component lead (or wire). I know Smitty will likely argue with me, but tough. |
#92
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. ROSIN CORE solder is NOT plumbing solder. You are right, I missed that. If you have trouble tinning it is either because you can't get the solder hot enough or the tip is not clean enough. Sounds to me that you are using the wrong solder, too large and wrong type. Lead free electronic solder is a royal pain - period. I imagine! I always just used a damp folded up paper towel to wipe the tip. You can sand or file the tip if you need to get one more use out of it, don't otherwise. Also, when 1 solder two wires together, I twist the wires together, then hold the iron to one side of the wire and hold the solder to the opposite site. I heat the junction and feed in the solder at the junction, not on the tip. But close to where everything meets. I was in the electronic repair business just about forever. I wound up soldering stuff I could barely see (SMD LSI) even with reading glasses! Jeff The wire should get hot and soak up the solder, right? I've been practicing but it seems to be hit or miss so far. Bonnie The wire should get hot and the solder should wick up the wire. Putting the solder at the junction of the iron and the wire - or on a printed circuit, more correctly at the junction of the pad and the iron, enhances the heat flow. When the solder wets the pad, you slide the iron against the component lead, and the solder should very quickly wet the lead as well, forming a smooth fillet from the pad to the component lead (or wire). I know Smitty will likely argue with me, but tough. FWIW, I'm with you on this. Jeff |
#93
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 11/30/2010 12:57 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/29/2010 9:23 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:01:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:41 AM, homer wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:26:05 -0500, wrote: snip That's what the wet sponge is for. A little tray in my 40 year old Weller temperature controlled soldering station. I have some 40 year old tips for it that are still working fine. I bought it new and have replaced a few parts over the years but it ran 8-12 hours a day for years when I was doing bench work with few problems. 40 seems like a lot, but now that you mention it, those Weller irons are workhorses. Tips lasted a long long time and you could replace whatever part needed it. I have some vague memory of needing a new "body" every dozen years or so. Never had more than a WP25, maybe the temp control lasted longer! The Ungars were terrible. Jeff http://www.action-electronics.com/pd...ntechsheet.pdf TDD |
#94
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/2/2010 1:01 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 11/30/2010 12:57 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:23 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:01:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:41 AM, homer wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:26:05 -0500, wrote: snip That's what the wet sponge is for. A little tray in my 40 year old Weller temperature controlled soldering station. I have some 40 year old tips for it that are still working fine. I bought it new and have replaced a few parts over the years but it ran 8-12 hours a day for years when I was doing bench work with few problems. 40 seems like a lot, but now that you mention it, those Weller irons are workhorses. Tips lasted a long long time and you could replace whatever part needed it. I have some vague memory of needing a new "body" every dozen years or so. Never had more than a WP25, maybe the temp control lasted longer! The Ungars were terrible. Jeff http://www.action-electronics.com/pd...ntechsheet.pdf When I accidentally dropped the iron on the plastic case, it melted a grove in it and Weller replaced it at no charge back in the 70's. I replaced the heater element once and of course several tips but that's all. The soldering station is still working like new. The replacement for it has a sponge tray and iron holder that can be snapped onto either side of the transformer housing. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qfRFCKv4L.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg http://www.parts-express.com/images/.../372-140_s.jpg TDD |
#95
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
Good grief what a lot of posts, all about anything but what the OP asked as
far as I can see. To tin a soldering iron get a wet sponge. Let the solder tip reach full temperature. They make little trays with sponges in them just for ths purpose at Radio Shack & other electrical supplies & box stores. Wipe the hot tip on the sponge, moving it fast enough to not burn the sponge (the water makes it easy) & dislodge the oxidation. If a wet sponge doesn't work well enough, it might be necessary to gently scrape the tip with a knife or any blade, held at right angles to the tip. Then a few swipes across the sponge again on the tip, and it should take a tin nicely. It's in "good shape" when resin-core solder covers the tip in a nice, usually shiny coat of solder. Shake off the excess solder. Done. It'll do a much better job of transferring heat to whatever you are soldering if the tip is clean and tinned. Many people get the little tray with sponge and set it near the work so if/when oxidation starts, a wipe or two on the sponge will renew the tinning quickly. Ths same informatioin is available many places on the web; especially soldering tutorials. HTH, Twayne` |
#96
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. ROSIN CORE solder is NOT plumbing solder. You are right, I missed that. If you have trouble tinning it is either because you can't get the solder hot enough or the tip is not clean enough. Sounds to me that you are using the wrong solder, too large and wrong type. Lead free electronic solder is a royal pain - period. I imagine! The big problem is that it's impossible to tell if the joint is good. They all look cold. It's a good excuse to get our technician to do all my soldering now. ;-) snip |
#97
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, "
wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. |
#98
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. |
#99
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, "
wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. |
#100
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless. |
#101
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:40:33 -0600, "
wrote: You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? And to repair something with a damaged component, what do you do? Wave your magic wand? You REPLACE the part - which DOES require reflowing the parts. And mixing the two solders is NOT recommended practice. And if the RoHS compliant part you use for replacement is not tin coated (and very many parts today are ONLY stocked in RoHS, and a large percentage of them are NOT tin coated), you will not get proper component lead wetting at leaded solder temps, and higher temps will often cause flux problems (black scale from flux overheating). Like I said - you can get lucky sometimes - but repair of RoHS equipment with leaded solder is NOT recommended, or best practice. Not smart either. You are a HACK. |
#102
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Dec 3, 4:40*am, "
wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in *for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. *It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics *like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. *There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. *Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. *Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. *The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. *You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. *The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation *on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - *SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components *MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. |
#103
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/3/2010 4:02 AM, harry wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:40 am, zzz wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. I have limited experience with lead free soldering copper plumbing. The melting point is higher and I think it's too close to the highest temp the flux can stand. A little too hot and the flux is shot. I have had good luck using 60/40 rosin core to tin the copper pipes, then used the lead free to solder the joint. It wicked it right in an never any leaks. Yep I admit it, I put lead in potable water lines. Probably 1 or 2% lead in the end. We lived this long with 60% lead, I don't think the tiny amount I added will make a difference. |
#104
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/2/2010 2:29 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/2/2010 1:01 AM, Jeff Thies wrote: On 11/30/2010 12:57 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:23 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:01:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:41 AM, homer wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:26:05 -0500, wrote: snip That's what the wet sponge is for. A little tray in my 40 year old Weller temperature controlled soldering station. I have some 40 year old tips for it that are still working fine. I bought it new and have replaced a few parts over the years but it ran 8-12 hours a day for years when I was doing bench work with few problems. 40 seems like a lot, but now that you mention it, those Weller irons are workhorses. Tips lasted a long long time and you could replace whatever part needed it. I have some vague memory of needing a new "body" every dozen years or so. Never had more than a WP25, maybe the temp control lasted longer! The Ungars were terrible. Jeff http://www.action-electronics.com/pd...ntechsheet.pdf When I accidentally dropped the iron on the plastic case, it melted a grove in it and Weller replaced it at no charge back in the 70's. I replaced the heater element once and of course several tips but that's all. The soldering station is still working like new. The replacement for it has a sponge tray and iron holder that can be snapped onto either side of the transformer housing. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qfRFCKv4L.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg http://www.parts-express.com/images/.../372-140_s.jpg TDD I think I have the next model up, "Weller EC 2001" adjustable and with digital temperature readout. Great tool! It's over 20 years old and there were many times it was on 8 hours a day. I think I replaced the whole heater and cord once, lots of tips. My old Pace solder sucker went through a lot of heaters, the second one I bought is much better, (Pace ST115) I think it's been about 8 years with no problems. I love to desolder a 40 pin IC and have it litteraly fall out of the board. |
#105
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 01:02:19 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:40*am, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff Thies wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in *for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. *It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics *like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. *There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. *Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. *Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. *The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. *You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. *The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation *on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - *SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components *MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. We have lead-free solder for copper pipes, as well. He's right, they don't mix well. Nonsense. Electronic solders work fine for either. Mixing them in a process can cause problems, but repairs are not "mixing". The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. Right, which is why I use leaded solder even on RoHS boards (as long as they aren't shipping to a customer, marked as RoHS compliant). It works fine. Claire is a moron. |
#106
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
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#107
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/3/2010 5:50 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/3/2010 4:02 AM, harry wrote: On Dec 3, 4:40 am, zzz wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. I have limited experience with lead free soldering copper plumbing. The melting point is higher and I think it's too close to the highest temp the flux can stand. A little too hot and the flux is shot. I have had good luck using 60/40 rosin core to tin the copper pipes, then used the lead free to solder the joint. It wicked it right in an never any leaks. Yep I admit it, I put lead in potable water lines. Probably 1 or 2% lead in the end. We lived this long with 60% lead, I don't think the tiny amount I added will make a difference. I'll share my secret weapon for using lead free solder on copper potable water pipe. It's "Oatey lead free tinning flux" and it's available in a small tube, can or tub. It's flux with powdered lead free solder mixed in. I recommend to everyone who's working on copper water pipe. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2favjw6 TDD |
#108
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/3/2010 5:50 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/3/2010 4:02 AM, harry wrote: On Dec 3, 4:40 am, zzz wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. I have limited experience with lead free soldering copper plumbing. The melting point is higher and I think it's too close to the highest temp the flux can stand. A little too hot and the flux is shot. I have had good luck using 60/40 rosin core to tin the copper pipes, then used the lead free to solder the joint. It wicked it right in an never any leaks. Yep I admit it, I put lead in potable water lines. Probably 1 or 2% lead in the end. We lived this long with 60% lead, I don't think the tiny amount I added will make a difference. Here's the kit you should obtain to get you started. Once you get the hang of it, you'll have no problem using lead free solder again. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2g7t3ec TDD |
#109
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/3/2010 6:13 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/2/2010 2:29 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 12/2/2010 1:01 AM, Jeff Thies wrote: On 11/30/2010 12:57 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:23 PM, wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:01:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 11/29/2010 9:41 AM, homer wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:26:05 -0500, wrote: snip That's what the wet sponge is for. A little tray in my 40 year old Weller temperature controlled soldering station. I have some 40 year old tips for it that are still working fine. I bought it new and have replaced a few parts over the years but it ran 8-12 hours a day for years when I was doing bench work with few problems. 40 seems like a lot, but now that you mention it, those Weller irons are workhorses. Tips lasted a long long time and you could replace whatever part needed it. I have some vague memory of needing a new "body" every dozen years or so. Never had more than a WP25, maybe the temp control lasted longer! The Ungars were terrible. Jeff http://www.action-electronics.com/pd...ntechsheet.pdf When I accidentally dropped the iron on the plastic case, it melted a grove in it and Weller replaced it at no charge back in the 70's. I replaced the heater element once and of course several tips but that's all. The soldering station is still working like new. The replacement for it has a sponge tray and iron holder that can be snapped onto either side of the transformer housing. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qfRFCKv4L.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg http://www.parts-express.com/images/.../372-140_s.jpg TDD I think I have the next model up, "Weller EC 2001" adjustable and with digital temperature readout. Great tool! It's over 20 years old and there were many times it was on 8 hours a day. I think I replaced the whole heater and cord once, lots of tips. My old Pace solder sucker went through a lot of heaters, the second one I bought is much better, (Pace ST115) I think it's been about 8 years with no problems. I love to desolder a 40 pin IC and have it litteraly fall out of the board. I love those vacuum desoldering stations, I had one sold by ECG back in the late 70's and like you said, a DIP chip would often fall out in your hand after sucking the melted solder off the circuit board. The ECG unit was affordable by just about any electronic tech back then. TDD |
#110
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/3/2010 9:32 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/3/2010 5:50 PM, Tony Miklos wrote: On 12/3/2010 4:02 AM, harry wrote: On Dec 3, 4:40 am, zzz wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. I have limited experience with lead free soldering copper plumbing. The melting point is higher and I think it's too close to the highest temp the flux can stand. A little too hot and the flux is shot. I have had good luck using 60/40 rosin core to tin the copper pipes, then used the lead free to solder the joint. It wicked it right in an never any leaks. Yep I admit it, I put lead in potable water lines. Probably 1 or 2% lead in the end. We lived this long with 60% lead, I don't think the tiny amount I added will make a difference. Here's the kit you should obtain to get you started. Once you get the hang of it, you'll have no problem using lead free solder again. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2g7t3ec TDD If I see it in my travels I will buy it. I noticed it said "Low melting point of lead-free solder is ideal for copper plumbing installation". Does that mean low melting point compared to lead solder, or compared to other lead free plumbing solders? Any idea what the actual melting temp is? |
#111
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/4/2010 9:57 AM, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 12/3/2010 9:32 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote: On 12/3/2010 5:50 PM, Tony Miklos wrote: On 12/3/2010 4:02 AM, harry wrote: On Dec 3, 4:40 am, zzz wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:56:15 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 21:23:45 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 22:07:07 -0500, wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 18:25:07 -0600, " wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:43:38 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 12/1/2010 5:56 PM, wrote: On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:15:47 -0500, Jeff wrote: On 11/29/2010 12:26 AM, wrote: How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. This is plumbing solder, get some designed for electrical. Something fairly small. 60/40 tin/lead (or is it the other way). Use the right solder for the application. Not necessarily true - the lead free solder madness has hit electronics like a frieght train. Lovely. Looks like I got out of the repair business in time. Lead-free solder isn't required in the US, yet. There is still plenty of leaded stuff around. It IS required if the device is assembled with lead free - the two don't mix very well. Bull****. Leaded solder works just fine with unleaded parts. Better, in fact, because you can use lower temperature. The parts, and tools, will be "contaminated" but that doesn't matter for US consumption. California has RoHS laws on the books since 2003 - with compliance required by 2007 - so you do see lead-free solder mandated in parts of the USA And as far as you "bull****" is concerned, you are WRONG. Hate to tell you this, but you don't know as much as you think you do. You're full of ****, as usual. Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. You really are stupid. You don't need to reflow the lead-free parts. The subject is using leaded solder for repairs, remember? This is from Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp You can read "the rest of the story" at: http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_39990.shtml The article by Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation on the same page agrees. Lots of other expert opinion out there agrees with me - SOME RoHS (lead free) compliant components MAY work OK with leaded solder, many will not - and anyone who is not aware of the consequenses of using the wrong solder with the wrong parts should not be working on newer electronic equipment. They do, and will. Just because you guys have never seen a problem does not mean it doesn't exist - it just means you've been, up untill now, VERY lucky. You're completely clueless.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We have both in the UK. The leadfree is primarily for copper potable water pipes. He's right, they don't mix well. The leadfree is a pain in the arse to use, the temperature has to be far more exact and the fluxes aren't as good. I have limited experience with lead free soldering copper plumbing. The melting point is higher and I think it's too close to the highest temp the flux can stand. A little too hot and the flux is shot. I have had good luck using 60/40 rosin core to tin the copper pipes, then used the lead free to solder the joint. It wicked it right in an never any leaks. Yep I admit it, I put lead in potable water lines. Probably 1 or 2% lead in the end. We lived this long with 60% lead, I don't think the tiny amount I added will make a difference. Here's the kit you should obtain to get you started. Once you get the hang of it, you'll have no problem using lead free solder again. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2g7t3ec TDD If I see it in my travels I will buy it. I noticed it said "Low melting point of lead-free solder is ideal for copper plumbing installation". Does that mean low melting point compared to lead solder, or compared to other lead free plumbing solders? Any idea what the actual melting temp is? I don't know without looking it up but I do have experience with the product which makes using lead free solder for copper plumbing very easy. The addition of powdered solder to the flux assures a reliable joint without wasting gobs of solder and flux. With a tight fitting, I've found that there may be no need for additional solder. TDD |
#112
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:44:24 -0600, "
wrote: Claire is a moron. I don't know who this Claire is - might well be a moron. However, This from an expert: Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp Mr. Dixon has been in the electronics field for over twenty years and is the Global Marketing Director with the electronics group of Henkel. Prior to joining Henkel, he worked for Raytheon, Camalot Systems, and Universal Instruments. I'll take his word over someone ( a usenet engineer) who fudges his ID on usenet. And another expert agrees: Many of the components manufactured in the last few years have been lead free, especially surface mount chip components as they are Tin plated. Can you solder these with 60/40 tin/lead solders, the answer is yes and millions of solder joint have been soldered this way for years. The problem however is some of the Lead-Free component plated RoHS components have a SAC alloy for a lead coating and this is the issue. The 60/40 alloy will not be hot enough to melt the SAC alloy to create a sound joint. Yes, many papers have been are being published stating that this will work, but keep in mind the thermal profile and the length of time the solder joint needs to be above the reflow temperature to all complete dissolution of the Tin/Lead into the SAC alloy coating or solder balls on the components. This is much different than what was used to the low temperature Tin/Lead alloys and dwell times above the reflow temperature is going to have to increase to create a sound solder joint. Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation At EPTAC Corporation, Mr. Lambert oversees content of course offerings, IPC Certification programs and provides customers with expert consultation in electronics manufacturing, including RoHS/WEEE and lead free issues. Leo is also the IPC General Chairman for the Assembly/Joining Process Committee. Again, I'll take the word of an acknowleged expert in the field over that of the unknown usenet engineer. If you are 100% certain your RoHS compliant components have tin coating, you CAN use leaded solder. If you are just ASSuming all RoHS compliant components have tin coated leads, you are treading on extremely thin ice. I have stated that using leaded solder with RoHS compliant components is "not best practice" and can lead to product failures. I'm not saying you can't get away with it some or most of the time - I'm saying it is not correct, and it is wrong and dangerous to say it is "safe" or "proper" to solder RoHS compliant components with regular lead-based solders. Recommending it is not being responsible, without at least adding the possibilities of the "gotchas" which are well documented and recognized by the experts, and which I have provided cites for. |
#113
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
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#114
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Nov 29, 12:26*am, wrote:
How do you know when your soldering iron is tinned? I keep mine plugged in *for 5-10 minutes then when I try tin it, the solder beads up and just drips offs. *It doesn't seem to "wet" the tip. Is it suppose to wet the tip of the soldering iron? I'm using non lead solder, 95%Sn, 5% Sb (Tin/Antimony). Rosin core. Also, when 1 solder two wires together, I twist the wires together, then hold the iron to one side of the wire and hold the solder to the opposite site. *The wire should get hot and soak up the solder, right? I've been practicing but it seems to be hit or miss so far. Bonnie SIMPLE ENOUGH....ALL THE HYPE IS SIMPLY MARVELOUS.... CLEAN THE TIP OFF WITH STEEL WOOL, THEN APPLY SOME LIQUID FLUX LIGHTLY, FOLLOWED BY SOLDER AND WALLAH! IT IS TINNED...A CHILD CAN DO IT, NO NEED FOR 100+ RESPONSES TO GET THAT. PATECUM |
#115
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
WALLAH! Just what the hell is "WALLAH" anyway? |
#116
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On 12/6/2010 4:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote:
WALLAH! Just what the hell is "WALLAH" anyway? I think it is a type of onion.. http://www.sweetonions.org/ |
#117
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
Tony Miklos wrote:
WALLAH! Just what the hell is "WALLAH" anyway? A halal form of walhalla?? |
#118
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 23:38:31 -0600, "
wrote: On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 22:41:14 -0500, wrote: On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 18:44:24 -0600, " wrote: Claire is a moron. I don't know who this Claire is - might well be a moron. Misspelled, *that* wasn't intended as a slight. However, This from an expert: Traditional tin-lead materials are not compatible with lead-free device finishes. Other than BGAs, one doesn't reflow the part, dummy. The solder paste gets reflowed. ...and once again, we were talking about *repair*. Because proper reflow for lead-free materials can only be achieved with higher temperatures, attempting to process lead-free terminated devices in 183?C tin-lead conditions leads to incomplete wetting and the related issues of voiding and opens. Wrong. As long as the solder paste is appropriate, it doesn't much matter whether the part is tin, tin-lead, or gold (or any other commonly used finish) tin-lead solder will wick just fine. ...better than lead-free solder will on the same parts, in fact. Doug Dixon, Global Marketing Director Henkel Corp Mr. Dixon has been in the electronics field for over twenty years and is the Global Marketing Director with the electronics group of Henkel. Prior to joining Henkel, he worked for Raytheon, Camalot Systems, and Universal Instruments. You can't read. I'll take his word over someone ( a usenet engineer) who fudges his ID on usenet. Yes indeed, who would believe a Usenet liar, like Clare? And another expert agrees: Many of the components manufactured in the last few years have been lead free, especially surface mount chip components as they are Tin plated. Indeed, almost all *are* tin plated. Can you solder these with 60/40 tin/lead solders, the answer is yes and millions of solder joint have been soldered this way for years. The problem however is some of the Lead-Free component plated RoHS components have a SAC alloy for a lead coating and this is the issue. The 60/40 alloy will not be hot enough to melt the SAC alloy to create a sound joint. Yes, many papers have been are being published stating that this will work, but keep in mind the thermal profile and the length of time the solder joint needs to be above the reflow temperature to all complete dissolution of the Tin/Lead into the SAC alloy coating or solder balls on the components. This is much different than what was used to the low temperature Tin/Lead alloys and dwell times above the reflow temperature is going to have to increase to create a sound solder joint. Nonsense. It works fine. Untill it doesn't. Leo Lambert, Vice President, Technical Director EPTAC Corporation At EPTAC Corporation, Mr. Lambert oversees content of course offerings, IPC Certification programs and provides customers with expert consultation in electronics manufacturing, including RoHS/WEEE and lead free issues. Leo is also the IPC General Chairman for the Assembly/Joining Process Committee. Again, I'll take the word of an acknowleged expert in the field over that of the unknown usenet engineer. If you are 100% certain your RoHS compliant components have tin coating, you CAN use leaded solder. They *all* are. Yes, I have checked all of our parts because that's part of what I do. Back to the original point, *REPAIR*. Leaded solder is just fine to repair RoHS gizmos. If you are just ASSuming all RoHS compliant components have tin coated leads, you are treading on extremely thin ice. Clueless Clare. I have stated that using leaded solder with RoHS compliant components is "not best practice" and can lead to product failures. Again, clueless. Repairing RoHS boards with leaded solder is, in fact, better than using lead free precisely because of the difference in temperatures and better wetting. I'm not saying you can't get away with it some or most of the time - I'm saying it is not correct, and it is wrong and dangerous to say it is "safe" or "proper" to solder RoHS compliant components with regular lead-based solders. Recommending it is not being responsible, without at least adding the possibilities of the "gotchas" which are well documented and recognized by the experts, and which I have provided cites for. Clueless Clare backpedals more. No backpdaling at all. I said in the beginning you will often get away with it, but it is not the "recommended" way, it is not "best practice" and in some cases it WILL bite you. In your case you have double checked and all your components are tin coated leads, so for you it will work. Some components are NOT tin coated, and those can cause problems. Everyone on the list is aware of it now , and knows your opinion. They also now know that there CAN be issues - so they can do as they like, and take their chances in situations where they are not sure of the coating if they want to. |
#119
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
In article ,
George wrote: On 12/6/2010 4:46 PM, Tony Miklos wrote: WALLAH! Just what the hell is "WALLAH" anyway? I think it is a type of onion.. http://www.sweetonions.org/ It is another spelling variation on the common usenet exclamation often written as "viola" -- Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org |
#120
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How Do You "TIN" a soldering iron?
On Dec 6, 4:46*pm, Tony Miklos wrote:
WALLAH! Just what the hell is "WALLAH" anyway? APPARENTLY A NEW TROLL TREAT. PATECUM |
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