[John]

Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water electronic
device for hard water? Does it really work and does it perform the same as
a standard water softener? Thanks.

[J Burns]

On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.

The company has a A+ rating with the BBB. Approximately 1 complaint a
year, and all resolved.

They have a 90-day satisfaction-guaranteed offer along with a 3-year
warranty.

I find the patent (6325942) credible. It says water molecules, being
polar, join around the metal ions and keep them from contacting each
other. If you can bust up the cells of water, the ions will bump each
other, join, and no longer be "sticky."

I know that principle works because chlorine bleach or peroxide bleach
can last months in the bottle as long as the water keeps the bleach
particles from colliding. If they collide, the chlorine bleach ions
turn into salt and water, while the peroxide bleach ions turn into
oxygen gas and water. Your bleach went flat.

The patent says the invention agitates the water molecules with a
magnetic field at the resonant frequency of water molecules. I know
that works because a cup of water gets hot in a microwave oven.

If I had hard water, maybe I'd fill two bowls. I'd make soap lather
with the first bowl. I'd put the other bowl in the microwave a few
seconds, then see if soap lathered better.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:44:00 -0500, J Burns
wrote:

On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.

The company has a A+ rating with the BBB. Approximately 1 complaint a
year, and all resolved.

They have a 90-day satisfaction-guaranteed offer along with a 3-year
warranty.

I find the patent (6325942) credible. It says water molecules, being
polar, join around the metal ions and keep them from contacting each
other. If you can bust up the cells of water, the ions will bump each
other, join, and no longer be "sticky."

I know that principle works because chlorine bleach or peroxide bleach
can last months in the bottle as long as the water keeps the bleach
particles from colliding. If they collide, the chlorine bleach ions
turn into salt and water, while the peroxide bleach ions turn into
oxygen gas and water. Your bleach went flat.

The patent says the invention agitates the water molecules with a
magnetic field at the resonant frequency of water molecules. I know
that works because a cup of water gets hot in a microwave oven.

If I had hard water, maybe I'd fill two bowls. I'd make soap lather
with the first bowl. I'd put the other bowl in the microwave a few
seconds, then see if soap lathered better.

I'm still not CONvinced.

The web site lacks papers for us commoners? Last I looked my utility
company removed this gadget from it's web site. I'll stay with my
proven water softener.

[Sjouke Burry[_2_]]

J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.
The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.
It belongs in one group together with rabbit foots,
shiny stones to cure you, and astrology.
Maybe you can earn some money by sueing them.
Then the divice would provide you with something at least.

[J Burns]

On 11/28/10 8:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.

As of three years ago, the factory employed 200. Only 4 customers have
complained to the BBS. Only one of those complaints took issue with
advertising claims. All complaints were resolved.

The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

[harry]

On Nov 29, 4:18*am, J Burns wrote:
On 11/28/10 8:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.

As of three years ago, the factory employed 200. *Only 4 customers have
complained to the BBS. *Only one of those complaints took issue with
advertising claims. *All complaints were resolved.

The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. *That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. *Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

Your right about agitating the moleucues, but that is agitating
mechanically. That's why the John gets scaled up.
However it's ******** about these devices. If the limescale
precipitated out, they would block up inside the device with scale
in no time.
The claim was that it prevented the scale from precipitating out.
Which is where the pure ******** comes in.

[harry]

On Nov 29, 9:40*am, harry wrote:
On Nov 29, 4:18*am, J Burns wrote:





On 11/28/10 8:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.

As of three years ago, the factory employed 200. *Only 4 customers have
complained to the BBS. *Only one of those complaints took issue with
advertising claims. *All complaints were resolved.

The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. *That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. *Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

Your right about agitating the moleucues, but that is agitating
mechanically. That's why the John gets scaled up.
However it's ******** about these devices. *If the limescale
precipitated *out, they would block up inside the device *with scale
in no time.
The claim was that it prevented the scale from precipitating out.
Which is where the pure ******** comes in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Further to above I remember one of these salesmen claimed that
installing the device would somehow produce water that removed scale
already present in the system. I invited hime to explain the chemical
reaction involved. He couldn't. I made me somehow suspicious. Heh Heh.

[harry]

On Nov 29, 4:18*am, J Burns wrote:
On 11/28/10 8:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.

As of three years ago, the factory employed 200. *Only 4 customers have
complained to the BBS. *Only one of those complaints took issue with
advertising claims. *All complaints were resolved.

The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. *That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. *Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

[harry]

On Nov 29, 4:18*am, J Burns wrote:
On 11/28/10 8:15 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:

J Burns wrote:
On 11/27/10 8:55 AM, John wrote:
Does anyone know about or had any experience with the Easy Water
electronic device for hard water? Does it really work and does it
perform the same as a standard water softener? Thanks.

Looks good to me.
cut
I amazes me that that firm has not been sued for a couple
of millions.

As of three years ago, the factory employed 200. *Only 4 customers have
complained to the BBS. *Only one of those complaints took issue with
advertising claims. *All complaints were resolved.

The whole process is pure bull****.
Agitating molecules magnetically will not change anything
in the water, and the only result is emptying your wallet.

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. *That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. *Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

[J Burns]

On 11/29/10 4:49 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 29, 9:40 am, wrote:
On Nov 29, 4:18 am, J wrote:

Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

Your right about agitating the moleucues, but that is agitating
mechanically. That's why the John gets scaled up.
However it's ******** about these devices. If the limescale
precipitated out, they would block up inside the device with scale
in no time.
The claim was that it prevented the scale from precipitating out.
Which is where the pure ******** comes in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Further to above I remember one of these salesmen claimed that
installing the device would somehow produce water that removed scale
already present in the system. I invited hime to explain the chemical
reaction involved. He couldn't. I made me somehow suspicious. Heh Heh.

Calcium carbonate can be calcite or one of several metastable forms:
aragonite, vaterlite, monohydrocalcite, and ikate. Bill Freije claims
to produce a harmless form of calcium carbonate with a half life of a
few days.

The precipitate that can fall to the bottom of a pan if you heat hard
water is like snow. The particles Freije talks about are too small to
drop out. They would be like the frozen mist in a cloud.

If your roof is below freezing and fog hits it, the fog will deposit
ice. If frozen mist hits your frozen roof, it will probably drift past.
That seems to be analogous to what Freije claims. If solar heat or
heat from your attic keeps the ice on your roof warmer than the dew
point of the air with the frozen mist, the ice will evaporate. That
could be analogous to the reason some customers say they became
believers when they saw lime deposits diminish.

Freije comes from an engineering family. The patent I saw suggests a
lot of research and development. After Henry Ford built his car, he
spent years on R&D before he marketed it. Many still thought it useless
and shouted, "Get a horse!"

Freije's device might not help a heating system or plumbing that wasn't
used every couple of days. It might not make it easier to shampoo.
Maybe his sales people warn such users, to avoid the problem of having
customers use the guarantee of satisfaction to back out.

The BBB likes him.

[J Burns]

On 11/30/10 2:40 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 29, 8:36 pm, J wrote:
On 11/29/10 4:49 AM, harry wrote:





On Nov 29, 9:40 am, wrote:
On Nov 29, 4:18 am, J wrote:
Agitating water molecules with heat is known to cause minerals to
precipitate. That's why water heaters have taps at the bottom.

Several scientific papers in the 1980s said magnetic fields could also
cause minerals suspended in hard water to precipitate. Evidently the
devices marketed in the 80s did not implement the discovery successfully.

Your right about agitating the moleucues, but that is agitating
mechanically. That's why the John gets scaled up.
However it's ******** about these devices. If the limescale
precipitated out, they would block up inside the device with scale
in no time.
The claim was that it prevented the scale from precipitating out.
Which is where the pure ******** comes in.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Further to above I remember one of these salesmen claimed that
installing the device would somehow produce water that removed scale
already present in the system. I invited hime to explain the chemical
reaction involved. He couldn't. I made me somehow suspicious. Heh Heh.

Calcium carbonate can be calcite or one of several metastable forms:
aragonite, vaterlite, monohydrocalcite, and ikate. Bill Freije claims
to produce a harmless form of calcium carbonate with a half life of a
few days.

The precipitate that can fall to the bottom of a pan if you heat hard
water is like snow. The particles Freije talks about are too small to
drop out. They would be like the frozen mist in a cloud.

If your roof is below freezing and fog hits it, the fog will deposit
ice. If frozen mist hits your frozen roof, it will probably drift past.
That seems to be analogous to what Freije claims. If solar heat or
heat from your attic keeps the ice on your roof warmer than the dew
point of the air with the frozen mist, the ice will evaporate. That
could be analogous to the reason some customers say they became
believers when they saw lime deposits diminish.

Freije comes from an engineering family. The patent I saw suggests a
lot of research and development. After Henry Ford built his car, he
spent years on R&D before he marketed it. Many still thought it useless
and shouted, "Get a horse!"

Freije's device might not help a heating system or plumbing that wasn't
used every couple of days. It might not make it easier to shampoo.
Maybe his sales people warn such users, to avoid the problem of having
customers use the guarantee of satisfaction to back out.

The BBB likes him.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Brownian effect?

That sounds similar to what the patent says. It says the particles that
can cause scaling are each surrounded by a cell of water molecules as
they float in suspension. If molecular motion busts the cells, the
particles will collide and, in the near future, not cause scaling on
their way through the plumbing.

[Robert Neville]

J Burns wrote:

That sounds similar to what the patent says. It says the particles that
can cause scaling are each surrounded by a cell of water molecules as
they float in suspension. If molecular motion busts the cells, the
particles will collide and, in the near future, not cause scaling on
their way through the plumbing.

Some people seem to have a severe misunderstanding of what a patent is. It is
_not_ an endorsement by a goverment agency, nor does it in any way imply that
whatever is described by the patent application actually does what it says it
does.

All a patent is is an acknowledgement that noone else has ever filed for a
patent on something similar.

[J Burns]

On 11/30/10 7:48 PM, Robert Neville wrote:
J wrote:

That sounds similar to what the patent says. It says the particles that
can cause scaling are each surrounded by a cell of water molecules as
they float in suspension. If molecular motion busts the cells, the
particles will collide and, in the near future, not cause scaling on
their way through the plumbing.

Some people seem to have a severe misunderstanding of what a patent is. It is
_not_ an endorsement by a goverment agency, nor does it in any way imply that
whatever is described by the patent application actually does what it says it
does.

All a patent is is an acknowledgement that noone else has ever filed for a
patent on something similar.

Glad to see you've gotten straightened out. If you'd told me you were
confused about what a patent is, I would have been glad to explain.

I don't know how well the device might perform, but an inventor can't
get a patent without providing an explanation that makes sense to the
patent office. It's better to look there than to keep wondering what a
salesman might have meant by "electronic frequency."

The BBB doesn't say it works, but the A+ rating seems like an
endorsement of the company. If you pay for a product that may not work
for you, the integrity of the company is important.