[Jeff Thies]

I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have
some options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were
all drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly used
would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff

[Mike Paulsen[_2_]]

Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have some
options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were all
drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly used
would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff

Where do you keep wash clothes, dish towels, hot pads, etc?

[HerHusband]

Hi Jeff,

I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have
some options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets
were all drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap
catchers.
I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other
for tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes,
so I can just pull it out and put them away after washing and drying
them (all just to the right of the sink). Dishes would be upright.
Pots and pans commonly used would be hung over the stove, as before.

I chose to build all of our base cabinets with drawers. The only
exceptions are the shelf under our corner sink (where we keep our garbage
can), and a single shelved cabinet that fits in a blind corner next to
the dishwasher (where we keep our pots, pans, and small appliances)

We find the drawers allow much better access than shelves. As long as
everything has a place, they don't collect any more junk than shelves do.
Our drawers are progressively deeper from top to bottom. If I'm
remembering correctly, it's 5", then 8", then 12" on the bottom.
Obviously, everyone has their own organization, but here's how we have
ours laid out to give an idea of what our drawers are used for:

Bank 1 (between dishwasher and sink):
1: Hot pads and measuring cups
2: Foils, plastic wraps, garbage bags, etc.
3: Dish towels

Bank 2 (between sink and stove):
1: Odd utensils, pastry cutters, thermometers, potato mashers, etc.
2: Seldom used spices, large containers for refilling spice jars, etc.
3: Lids for pans

Bank 3 (other side of stove):
1: Silverware
2: Mixing bowls and baking dishes
3: Large baking dishes

Bank 4 (near the refrigerator):
1: "Snacks" (cookies, popcorn, etc.)
2: Rubbermaid plastic containers
3: Potatoes and Onions

Bank 5 (near the refrigerator):
1: Pasta, rice, beans
2: Teas, coffees, bread
3: Sugar, Flour, Salt

We keep dishes, glasses, and that sort of thing in overhead cabinets with
shelves. Shelves work fine here since the cabinets are up higher and not
as deep for things to get buried.

We also keep cereals and canned goods in an overhead cabinet next to the
refrigerator, and have a full height shelved pantry next to the
refrigerator for stocking extra supplies. Finally, we have an extra large
cabinet above the refrigerator for keeping big items we don't use much
like cake pans and whatnot.

My vote is for drawers!

Anthony

[Jeff Thies]

On 10/9/2010 1:28 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have
some options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets
were all drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap
catchers.
I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly
used would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is
usefull?
Jeff

My opinions...

SHELVES
They are good when they are only about as wide as the stuff that will sit on
them *AND* when you have full and easy access to them.

That makes sense, I think I'll put all the large stuff, like the unused
Woks and skillets and stuff on shelves, under the stove.


Wide shelves are a
PITA because what you want always seems to be in the back. By "full access"
I mean shelves that are no lower than your knees nor higher than your eyes.

DRAWERS
They are good for storing a variety of things of varying sizes *IF* they are
partitioned. Preferably by moveable partitions; the partitions won't get
moved much but they allow someone to set up the drawer initially.

I never thought of that, but I really like it. How do the partitions
work? What keeps them in place?

I think of horizontal pullout shelves, behind doors, as drawers too. I find
them handy for storing dishes, pots and pans, etc. One that is very handy
is one that is rather high top to bottom and divided into narrow vertical
spaces; it is good for storing cookie sheets, cake pans and the like.

That makes more sense than horizontal, which is what I had.

PULLOUTS
I sometimes find them handy but generally for specialized things. Our
kitchen has three (four counting the wastebasket).

One of them is behind doors;

That, I never thought of either!

the pullout has a crosspiece maybe 6" back and
that front compartment has shelves used to store things like flour and
sugar; the area back of the crosspiece is divided front to back, each side
has shelves used for storing infrequently used baking pans.

Yeah, dividers!

The other two have the front attached to the sides. One of them has three
trays with open bottoms made of 1/4" dowels; those trays will slide out to
the side when the pullout itself is out; the trays are used for fruit and
vegetables. The other pullout stores dog and cat food. It is large enough
for about a 5 gallon bucket of dog food.

Thanks,
Jeff

More opinion...
I think you are very light on drawers. Especially if you consider
horizontal pullout shelves as drawers too. In our kitchen we have 13
drawers and 28 horizontal pullout shelves. Everyone is useful, everyone is
used. The only unmoveable shelves are those in the upper cabinets and in
the walk-in pantry.

[LouB[_3_]]

Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have some
options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were all
drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly used
would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff
If you have an IKEA store available you might want to visit for ideas.
You could even use their system to design a kitchen:-)) Then build it
yourself.

[Jeff Thies]

On 10/9/2010 1:26 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Hi Jeff,

I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have
some options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets
were all drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap
catchers.
I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other
for tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes,
so I can just pull it out and put them away after washing and drying
them (all just to the right of the sink). Dishes would be upright.
Pots and pans commonly used would be hung over the stove, as before.

I chose to build all of our base cabinets with drawers. The only
exceptions are the shelf under our corner sink (where we keep our garbage
can), and a single shelved cabinet that fits in a blind corner next to
the dishwasher (where we keep our pots, pans, and small appliances)

We find the drawers allow much better access than shelves. As long as
everything has a place, they don't collect any more junk than shelves do.
Our drawers are progressively deeper from top to bottom. If I'm
remembering correctly, it's 5", then 8", then 12" on the bottom.

I like that.

Obviously, everyone has their own organization, but here's how we have
ours laid out to give an idea of what our drawers are used for:

Bank 1 (between dishwasher and sink):
1: Hot pads and measuring cups
2: Foils, plastic wraps, garbage bags, etc.
3: Dish towels

I like that, I have that in the pantry now. I think, I'll try to keep
the pantry just for food and the mop bucket.

Bank 2 (between sink and stove):
1: Odd utensils, pastry cutters, thermometers, potato mashers, etc.
2: Seldom used spices, large containers for refilling spice jars, etc.
3: Lids for pans

Bank 3 (other side of stove):
1: Silverware
2: Mixing bowls and baking dishes

I forgot about the mixing bowls.

3: Large baking dishes

Bank 4 (near the refrigerator):
1: "Snacks" (cookies, popcorn, etc.)
2: Rubbermaid plastic containers
3: Potatoes and Onions

Bank 5 (near the refrigerator):
1: Pasta, rice, beans
2: Teas, coffees, bread
3: Sugar, Flour, Salt

We keep dishes, glasses, and that sort of thing in overhead cabinets with
shelves. Shelves work fine here since the cabinets are up higher and not
as deep for things to get buried.

That makes sense is what I was mostly thinking, The shelves are
easier to get to, no bending over or reaching back.

We also keep cereals and canned goods in an overhead cabinet next to the
refrigerator, and have a full height shelved pantry next to the
refrigerator for stocking extra supplies. Finally, we have an extra large
cabinet above the refrigerator for keeping big items we don't use much
like cake pans and whatnot.

Now, I like that. I didn't know what to keep in the cabinet over the
fridge, but pans are perfect.

Jeff

My vote is for drawers!

Anthony

[Jeff Thies]

On 10/9/2010 12:43 PM, Mike Paulsen wrote:
Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have some
options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were all
drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly
used would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff

Where do you keep wash clothes, dish towels, hot pads, etc?

I've got some shelves between the kitchen and bath.

Jeff

[Jeff Thies]

On 10/9/2010 2:58 PM, LouB wrote:
Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have some
options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were all
drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly
used would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff
If you have an IKEA store available you might want to visit for ideas.

Been there many times and I'll stop later today. The wall cabs are
very interesting but I can't quite figure out the base setups. I don't
see stuff I was thinking about and sometimes I don't understand what is
being displayed.

You could even use their system to design a kitchen:-)) Then build it
yourself.

Or, the reverse! My screw feet came from IKEA. I thought about
getting the euro hinges there too. Remember when you could build stuff
out of Sears parts stores?

Jeff

[aemeijers]

On 10/9/2010 12:10 PM, Jeff Thies wrote:
I'm working away on my kitchen. Base cabinets are made and I have some
options on making drawers, shelves or pullouts. Last cabinets were all
drawers and pullouts, but I found they were largely crap catchers.

I'm thinking now, jut two drawers, one for cutlery and the other for
tools. Perhaps a third for commonly used dishes, so I can just pull it
out and put them away after washing and drying them (all just to the
right of the sink). Dishes would be upright. Pots and pans commonly used
would be hung over the stove, as before.

But, I'm no kitchen designer, or for that matter cook. What is usefull?

Jeff

Are you gonna be the primary cook in this kitchen, and/or the person who
does most of the cleanup and restocking? If not, THAT is who you need to
ask.

--
aem sends...

[Jeff Thies]

On 10/9/2010 5:19 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Jeff Thies wrote:

DRAWERS
They are good for storing a variety of things of varying sizes *IF*
they are partitioned. Preferably by moveable partitions; the
partitions won't get moved much but they allow someone to set up the
drawer initially.

I never thought of that, but I really like it. How do the partitions
work? What keeps them in place?

The easiest way I know is to cut "V" grooves in the sides or the back and
another piece to insert behind the drawer front. A 3/16" dado blade tilted
to 45 degrees will make a nice "V" groove which will accept a 1/4" partition
that has had the ends cut in a matching "V".

I like it, and it won't weaken the drawer sides (1/2") as it is not a
U. I've got some wide drawers so the front to back is a nice idea. If I
make the dividers out of 1/2", I should be able to cut V's in them also..

Thanks,
Jeff

[HerHusband]

Jeff,

Our drawers are progressively deeper from top to bottom. If I'm
remembering correctly, it's 5", then 8", then 12" on the bottom.
I like that.

I just checked my original cabinet plans. The drawer "openings" are 5",
8", and 11". We have been very happy with the three drawer sizes, as the
larger (i.e. heavier) stuff can go in the bottom drawers, while the
smaller stuff we access more can go in the upper drawers.

1: Hot pads and measuring cups
2: Foils, plastic wraps, garbage bags, etc.
3: Dish towels
I like that, I have that in the pantry now.

It's really handy to have the garbage bags near the garbage can, dish
towels near the sink, and the various wraps at hand when cooking.

I think, I'll try to keep the pantry just
for food and the mop bucket.

I originally planned our pantry to hold extra food supplies (canned
goods, cereal boxes, etc.). While we do use one of the shelves for that,
most of the shelves have ended up being cluttered with craft supplies,
paper plates/cups, and a few odds and ends we rarely use.

3: Lids for pans

This is our one drawer that is still fairly disorganized. I keep meaning
to build a rack of some type to fit in the drawer to hold the lids more
conveniently. Right now they all just lay flat, with a few overlapping.
Not a big deal, but it would be nicer if they were all separated for
easier access.

2: Mixing bowls and baking dishes
I forgot about the mixing bowls.

Yep, we have an assortment of ceramic and metal mixing bowls. These are
SO much easier to get to in a drawer than when we had shelves in our old
place.

We keep dishes, glasses, and that sort of thing in overhead cabinets
with shelves. Shelves work fine here since the cabinets are up higher
and not as deep for things to get buried.
That makes sense is what I was mostly thinking, The shelves are
easier to get to, no bending over or reaching back.

Yep, shelves work well in the overhead cabinets and usually don't get
cluttered. Our one exception is the cabinet we keep coffee mugs in. That
one is a disaster.

we have an extra large cabinet above the refrigerator for keeping
big items we don't use much like cake pans and whatnot.
Now, I like that. I didn't know what to keep in the cabinet over the
fridge, but pans are perfect.

We keep our cookie sheets, pizza pan, and muffin tins in the drawer under
the stove (upside down so they don't collect dust). We use those
frequently and they're just easier to access in the drawer.

My wife enjoy's cake decorating as a hobby, so she keeps all her pans and
supplies in the large cabinet above the refrigerator. It is honestly
kind of mess, a bunch of large odd sized pans, her "toolbox", and various
containers and decorating tools. It's not the easiest access (we have a
small step ladder), and wouldn't be very convenient for something you use
often. But for items that are only used occasionally and take up a lot of
space, it works well.

My vote is for drawers!

When I designed the cabinets for our kitchen, I compiled a list of
everything we owned, and tried to plan out where everything would go
before I even started drawing up plans. Try to think about what you use
often, and put those closest to the areas you use them (i.e. dish towels
near the sink, pans near the stove, etc.). We have a fairly small
kitchen (9'x12') so nothing is really that far away, but planning it out
makes a big difference.

Also, consider how you use things when you plan their locations. For
example, many folks put their silverware next to the dishwasher because
it's close. But we put ours near the dishes, between the stove and
refrigerator so they're more convenient when fixing a bowl of cereal,
grabbing a fork for a frozen dinner out of the freezer, or whatever.

I was just looking at my initial plans for our kitchen, and surprisingly
we still have things organized really close to that even five years
later. We've relocated a few things, but not many.

Be sure to make your shelves adjustable wherever you use them. In most
cases, you'll never move them once you have them filled with things. But,
I have moved a couple of shelves since we moved in to accomodate larger
boxes and added an additional shelf for two levels of shorter canned
goods. It's a small thing, but it's great to have the flexibility when
you need it.

Have fun!

Anthony

[HerHusband]

DRAWERS are good for storing a variety of things of varying sizes *IF*
they are partitioned. Preferably by moveable partitions; the
partitions won't get moved much but they allow someone to set up the
drawer initially.

We've never had a need for partitions in any of our drawers, in fact, they
would just get in the way for most of the items we store.

The one exception are the silverware drawers, where we used inexpensive
interlocking compartments available at any department store. You can take
them out and clean them when needed, reorganize of desired, or replace them
entirely if you want a different style.

Of course, we do use large rubbermaid containers for our flours, sugars,
beans, coconut, and other items.

I think of horizontal pullout shelves, behind doors, as drawers too.
I find them handy for storing dishes, pots and pans, etc.

There are a few reasons I don't like pullout shelves behind drawers:

1. Accessing the shelf is a multi-step operation. You have to open the
door, then pull out the drawer. Sounds minor, but when you have to do it
repetitively or need to get something when your hands are full, it's not
real convenient. Especially if your shelf is behind double doors.

2. Depending on the layout of the kitchen, the door could make it difficult
to access the pullout shelf. For instance, if I have the door under our
kitchen sink open for access to the garbage can, I can still pull out the
upper drawers in neighboring cabinets without closing the door. With the
drawer-behind-a-door approach, I would have to close the garbage door
first, open the drawer door, pull out the shelf, get my item, put the shelf
back in, close the drawer door, then open my garbage can door back up.

3. Pull out shelves usually end up dinging the back sides of the door.
Either you don't open the door wide enough and the shelf bangs into it when
you pull it out, or you bump the door while the shelf is out.

4. You lose a small amount of space between the back of the door and the
front of the shelf. It's probably only an inch, but in a small kitchen
every square inch counts.

One that is very handy is one that is rather high top to bottom
and divided into narrow vertical spaces; it is good for storing
cookie sheets, cake pans and the like.

These are nice if you have a narrow cabinet, or lots of pans to store. Just
be sure the dividers are removable for cleaning or to accomodate different
pan sizes.

On the other hand, this would waste a lot of space if you have a wide
cabinet, or it you're trying to accomodate a "full sheet" cake pan
(16"x24").

PULLOUTS
I sometimes find them handy but generally for specialized things. Our
kitchen has three (four counting the wastebasket).

These are great if they fit in your overall kitchen layout, though you do
lose the flexibility of a drawer not dedicated to one item.

I had hoped to implement the pullout wastebasket idea in my kitchen design,
but our sink is in a custom corner cabinet and that would have just wasted
too much space on either side.

The only unmoveable shelves are those in the upper
cabinets and in the walk-in pantry.

Ironically, those are the two areas I would want adjustable shelves the
MOST. You never know what you're going to store in the pantry, and being
able to move the shelves around lets you accomodate just about anything. On
the other hand, if you have a walk-in pantry, you probably have enough
storage space it doesn't matter. It's more critical in smaller kitchens
like ours.

The only fixed shelf I have in our entire kitchen is in the cabinet with
the blind corner. It would be difficult to adjust a shelf that extends
back two feet next to the dishwasher. That hard to access area works fine
for storing our large roasting pan (which typically only gets used around
Thanksgiving), and small appliances we don't use much (like the ice cream
maker).

Anthony

[HerHusband]

The only unmoveable shelves are those in the upper
cabinets and in the walk-in pantry.

Ironically, those are the two areas I would want adjustable shelves
the MOST.

Unmoveable means they don't slide, not that they aren't adjustable
vertically.

Oops, sorry about that. I misunderstood your description. Thanks for the
clarification.

Anthony