Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

On Sep 7, 4:01*pm, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

Temporary weatherproofing mainly, and it affords some small degree of
added protection as it would help divert any water over the seams of
the plywood.

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. *Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

Most manufacturers require roofing underlayment. Omitting it can void
the warranty.

R

On Sep 7, 4:49*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:01:51 -0400, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. *Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

A lot of places require a secondary membrane under shingles although,
up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.
I used Grace Ice and Water under mine but we have hurricanes that will
peel shingles off, even with the required 6 nails each.

I never understood why someone would omit the building paper when
doing so instantly voids the warranty. I guess some don't think the
warranty is worth anything at all, but if you never use it what's it
really worth? When someone works for someone else they can't be
taking liberties with warranty coverage and the owner's piece of
mind. Finding out they'd cut a corner, and a cheap one at that, and
potentially put the owner at greater financial risk, won't reflect too
well on them.

The building felt requirement doesn't make a whole lot of sense to
me. I'm with you on the membrane underlayment and would understand
if it were required everywhere. The only problem I'm seeing with it
is that some guys put on the membrane and then feel no particular rush
to get the shingles on. The manufacturers all stipulate the maximum
length of exposure to sunlight as it degrades the membrane. One house
going up near here has been under the membrane for almost nine
months. I guess even if the membrane suffered some degradation it
would still be at least equal to building felt...

R

wrote in :


up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.



That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.


--
Tegger

On Sep 7, 8:24*pm, Tegger wrote:
wrote:

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

If you're talking about reroofing, mebbe so, but code requires felt.
I'm in NY, so this is the NY state code, which is a slightly modified
IRC.

§RR905 REQUIREMENTS FOR ROOF COVERINGS
§RR905.1 Roof covering application. Roof coverings shall be applied in
accordance with the applicable provisions of this section and the
manufacturer's installation instructions.

The manufacturers all require it, so code requires it, but there's
also this specific bit:

§RR905.2.7 Underlayment application. For roof slopes from two units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (17-percent slope), up to four units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope), underlayment
shall be
two layers applied in the following manner. Apply a 19-inch (483
mm)
strip of underlayment felt parallel with and starting at the eaves,
fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Starting at the eave, apply
36-
inch-wide (914 mm) sheets of underlayment, overlapping successive
sheets
19 inches (483 mm), and fastened sufficiently to hold in place. For
roof
slopes of four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent
slope)
or greater, underlayment shall be one layer applied in the following
manner. Underlayment shall be applied shingle fashion, parallel to
and
starting from the eave and lapped 2 inches (51 mm), fastened
sufficiently
to hold in place. End laps shall be offset by 6 feet (1829 mm).

Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?

R

RicodJour wrote in news:0394c326-10ce-432c-962b-
:

On Sep 7, 8:24*pm, Tegger wrote:
wrote:

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

If you're talking about reroofing, mebbe so, but code requires felt.
I'm in NY, so this is the NY state code, which is a slightly modified
IRC.


snip


Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?




Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I'm in Ontario, Canada, right
across the lake from NY State.

Shingles right on top of plywood is quite legal here, and is 100% what new-
home builders do. Not a single new-home builder here puts anything more
than bare shingles, even on a million-dollar home, unless the buyer
specifically purchases upgrades. Believe it or not.



--
Tegger

Tegger wrote:
....

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I'm in Ontario, Canada, right
across the lake from NY State.

Shingles right on top of plywood is quite legal here, and is 100% what new-
home builders do. Not a single new-home builder here puts anything more
than bare shingles, even on a million-dollar home, unless the buyer
specifically purchases upgrades. Believe it or not.
....

So, who said builders always follow Code?

I'd be really surprised if that is not a violation of Code in Canuckstan
being as in general Codes mimic others very closely and the reqm't for
following manufacturers' instructions is quite the common first step.

--

On Sep 7, 9:03*pm, Tegger wrote:
RicodJour wrote in news:0394c326-10ce-432c-962b-

Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I'm in Ontario, Canada, right
across the lake from NY State.

Shingles right on top of plywood is quite legal here, and is 100% what new-
home builders do. Not a single new-home builder here puts anything more
than bare shingles, even on a million-dollar home, unless the buyer
specifically purchases upgrades. Believe it or not.

I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.

The most definitive thing I found pertaining to underlayment was he
http://www.inspectapedia.com/roof/Ro...derlayment.htm
Ontario practice is about a fifth of the way down the page. So it
seems that Ontario feels there is less of a need for underlayment than
even nearby parts of Canada. Maybe you're in a micro-climate
area...?

R

On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 17:52:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Sep 7, 8:24Â*pm, Tegger wrote:
wrote:

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

If you're talking about reroofing, mebbe so, but code requires felt.
I'm in NY, so this is the NY state code, which is a slightly modified
IRC.

§RR905 REQUIREMENTS FOR ROOF COVERINGS
§RR905.1 Roof covering application. Roof coverings shall be applied in
accordance with the applicable provisions of this section and the
manufacturer's installation instructions.

The manufacturers all require it, so code requires it, but there's
also this specific bit:

§RR905.2.7 Underlayment application. For roof slopes from two units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (17-percent slope), up to four units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope), underlayment
shall be
two layers applied in the following manner. Apply a 19-inch (483
mm)
strip of underlayment felt parallel with and starting at the eaves,
fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Starting at the eave, apply
36-
inch-wide (914 mm) sheets of underlayment, overlapping successive
sheets
19 inches (483 mm), and fastened sufficiently to hold in place. For
roof
slopes of four units vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent
slope)
or greater, underlayment shall be one layer applied in the following
manner. Underlayment shall be applied shingle fashion, parallel to
and
starting from the eave and lapped 2 inches (51 mm), fastened
sufficiently
to hold in place. End laps shall be offset by 6 feet (1829 mm).

Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?

R
A lot of roofers have been compeating strictly on price and not
installing any roof felt for several years. Some have been using roof
felt for ice-dam prevention.

The smart ones have finally figured out price isn't everything, and
there will always be someone able to do a worse job for less - so are
using roof felt again, as well as REAL ice guard. Some of the premium
roofers are using BluSeal ice guard membrane over the whole roof now -
and doing the job for not a whole lot more than the cheapskates.

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 01:03:12 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

RicodJour wrote in news:0394c326-10ce-432c-962b-
:

On Sep 7, 8:24Â*pm, Tegger wrote:
wrote:

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

If you're talking about reroofing, mebbe so, but code requires felt.
I'm in NY, so this is the NY state code, which is a slightly modified
IRC.


snip


Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?




Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I'm in Ontario, Canada, right
across the lake from NY State.

Shingles right on top of plywood is quite legal here, and is 100% what new-
home builders do. Not a single new-home builder here puts anything more
than bare shingles, even on a million-dollar home, unless the buyer
specifically purchases upgrades. Believe it or not.

That is changing real fast here in Waterloo Region. The Toronto
builders building here are still pulling that **** - but the better
local builders are ALL going to felt underlay as a minimum, and on the
expensive houses full membrane. (and many expensive houses are no
longer getting regular shingle roofs any more either)

Mind you, a "million dollar home" isn't what it used to be any
more!!!!!!!.

On 9/7/2010 9:03 PM, Tegger wrote:
wrote in news:0394c326-10ce-432c-962b-
:

On Sep 7, 8:24 pm, wrote:
wrote:

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

If you're talking about reroofing, mebbe so, but code requires felt.
I'm in NY, so this is the NY state code, which is a slightly modified
IRC.


snip


Where are you and what code do they use in your area that permits
omission of the underlayment?




Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I'm in Ontario, Canada, right
across the lake from NY State.

Shingles right on top of plywood is quite legal here, and is 100% what new-
home builders do. Not a single new-home builder here puts anything more
than bare shingles, even on a million-dollar home, unless the buyer
specifically purchases upgrades. Believe it or not.




Boggle. Not even ice membrane on the overhangs and in the valleys? (Both
required by code around here, new or re-roof.)

I'd never omit it, or knowingly buy a house without it. Seen shingles
torn off in windstorms too many times.

--
aem sends...

On 9/7/2010 4:01 PM, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

RicodJour wrote in
:



I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.



All I know is what I see, and I see a LOT around here. Not once, ever, have
I seen a new-home roofed with /any/ sort of underlayment, not even at the
eaves.




--
Tegger

On Sep 8, 7:23*am, Tegger wrote:
RicodJour wrote :



I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. *It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. *Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. *Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.

All I know is what I see, and I see a LOT around here. Not once, ever, have
I seen a new-home roofed with /any/ sort of underlayment, not even at the
eaves.

No one is arguing your personal experience. I'm just trying to figure
out how, out of every area that has adopted the IRC which requires
underlayment, Ontario is okay with omitting it and makes no reference
to the manufacturers' instructions requiring it. It's odd, and from
the other responses you can see that I am not the only one that finds
it so.

R

"Notat Home" wrote in message
...

Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

You can consult:
1. the Building Code for wherever you live;
2. the research on which the Building Code is based.
In most jurisdictions this is publicly funded and information is free.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Sep 7, 7:24*pm, Tegger wrote:
wrote :

up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood.

That is SOP with the builders where I live (Northeast). Roofers here lay
down ice-guard and felt ONLY on custom jobs, where the owner (not a
reseller) is paying the bill.

The builders here in the South (Alabama) seem to all use felt under
the shingles. My house in NY didn't have any felt under the
shingles. I don't remember if my VT house had felt or not. I think
it did.

One other purpose of felt, it makes tearing off the roof much easier,
though builders wouldn't care much about that.

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:58:07 -0700, RicodJour wrote:

On Sep 7, 4:49Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:01:51 -0400, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. Â*Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

A lot of places require a secondary membrane under shingles although,
up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood. I
used Grace Ice and Water under mine but we have hurricanes that will
peel shingles off, even with the required 6 nails each.

I never understood why someone would omit the building paper when doing
so instantly voids the warranty.

Yeah, if it's needed for warranty, I'd do it. If it's not, then it'd
probably depend on the building's use and the underlying roof
construction (separate timbers vs. OSB, say). I'm not sure that felt does
much for stopping moisture, but I suspect it helps to make things air-
tight (so may be beneficial on any kind of heated structure)

No building code where I am - but also not much building going on, so I
can't comment on what standard practice is!

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

cheers

Jules

On Sep 7, 3:01*pm, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. *Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

To keep from rotting the decking from condensation, yes you need it.

On Sep 8, 11:40*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:58:07 -0700, RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 7, 4:49*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:01:51 -0400, Notat Home wrote:
Why do you need roofing felt under the shingles?

I'm considering putting a raised seam metal roof on my garage, after
tearing of the shingles. *Do I need new felt under the metal roof?

A lot of places require a secondary membrane under shingles although,
up north I have seen them nail the shingles right to the plywood. I
used Grace Ice and Water under mine but we have hurricanes that will
peel shingles off, even with the required 6 nails each.

I never understood why someone would omit the building paper when doing
so instantly voids the warranty.

Yeah, if it's needed for warranty, I'd do it. If it's not, then it'd
probably depend on the building's use and the underlying roof
construction (separate timbers vs. OSB, say). I'm not sure that felt does
much for stopping moisture, but I suspect it helps to make things air-
tight (so may be beneficial on any kind of heated structure)

Attics aren't air tight (quite the opposite, normally) so the felt
adds nothing here.

...

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:48:46 -0700, keith wrote:

On Sep 8, 11:43Â*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. Â*The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. Â*If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. Â*(that would be one hell of a pain in the ass
if it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

I wouldn't spend more for a warranty. Better shingles (if you can
determine "better") certainly, but IMO shingle warranties are worthless.

Yeah, I'm not certain what current thinking is there. I see 25 year
warranties, 30, 50, and 'lifetime' - but often the 'lifetime' ones seem
to be for shingles that can tolerate a much lower maximum wind speed (and
they really do quote that as max speed, not "warranty up to x mph, but we
expect they'll handle much more").

I get the impression that the current "sweet spot" is probably 30yr
shingles with a high wind speed rating (120mph or so) - they're a
reasonable price, reasonable lifespan, but should take a few exceptional
storms.

cheers

Jules

RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 8, 7:23 am, Tegger wrote:
RicodJour wrote :



I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.
All I know is what I see, and I see a LOT around here. Not once, ever, have
I seen a new-home roofed with /any/ sort of underlayment, not even at the
eaves.

No one is arguing your personal experience. I'm just trying to figure
out how, out of every area that has adopted the IRC which requires
underlayment, Ontario is okay with omitting it and makes no reference
to the manufacturers' instructions requiring it. It's odd, and from
the other responses you can see that I am not the only one that finds
it so.

It appears the Code references the Canadian version of the ASME
Standards for asphalt shingles based on a summary of the Code
requirements I found which on installation says--

"* Shingles shall be applied according to methods outlined by the
National Standards of Canada. Roof slopes 1:3 and steeper shall conform
to CAN3-A123-M85. Roof slopes 1:6 to less than 1:3 shall conform to
CAN3-A123.52-M85"

So, looking for the applicable Standards, best I came upon was the
following to catalog pages from the sales site--

CAN3 A123.51-M85 (R2006)
Asphalt Shingle Application on Roof Slopes 1:3 and Steeper
Canada National Standard/Canadian Standards / 01-Dec-1999 / 23 pages

1. Scope

1.1

This Standard describes the minimum application requirements for asphalt
strip shingles or low slope shingles on roofs with slopes from 1:3...

CAN3 A123.52-M85 (R2006)
Asphalt Shingle Application on Roof Slopes 1:6 to Less Than 1:3
Canada National Standard/Canadian Standards / 01-Dec-1999 / 24 pages

1. Scope

1.1

This Standard describes the minimum application requirements for asphalt
strip shingles or low slope shingles on roofs with slopes from 1:6 to
less than 1:3...

Unfortunately, they're published Standards and not generally available
online which is what makes finding the info so tough.


I'd be willing to bet both either include the requirement or rely on
following manufacturers' installation procedure for the particular
product. Universally afaik, the manufacturers' recommend same.

I'm still betting Code says "do it" even if it is widely ignored and
(apparently) not enforced.

--

On 9/8/2010 12:43 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

cheers

Jules


A big, high, but simple roof like that, I would strongly consider
skinning in steel panels. That is the application they were invented
for. Don't wanna do it more than once, do you?

--
aem sends...

On Sep 8, 5:09*pm, dpb wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Sep 8, 7:23 am, Tegger wrote:
RicodJour wrote :

I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. *It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. *Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. *Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.
All I know is what I see, and I see a LOT around here. Not once, ever, have
I seen a new-home roofed with /any/ sort of underlayment, not even at the
eaves.

No one is arguing your personal experience. *I'm just trying to figure
out how, out of every area that has adopted the IRC which requires
underlayment, Ontario is okay with omitting it and makes no reference
to the manufacturers' instructions requiring it. *It's odd, and from
the other responses you can see that I am not the only one that finds
it so.

It appears the Code references the Canadian version of the ASME
Standards for asphalt shingles based on a summary of the Code
requirements I found which on installation says--

"* Shingles shall be applied according to methods outlined by the
National Standards of Canada. Roof slopes 1:3 and steeper shall conform
to CAN3-A123-M85. Roof slopes 1:6 to less than 1:3 shall conform to
CAN3-A123.52-M85"

So, looking for the applicable Standards, best I came upon was the
following to catalog pages from the sales site--

CAN3 A123.51-M85 (R2006)
Asphalt Shingle Application on Roof Slopes 1:3 and Steeper
Canada National Standard/Canadian Standards / 01-Dec-1999 / 23 pages

1. Scope

1.1

This Standard describes the minimum application requirements for asphalt
strip shingles or low slope shingles on roofs with slopes from 1:3...

CAN3 A123.52-M85 (R2006)
Asphalt Shingle Application on Roof Slopes 1:6 to Less Than 1:3
Canada National Standard/Canadian Standards / 01-Dec-1999 / 24 pages

1. Scope

1.1

This Standard describes the minimum application requirements for asphalt
strip shingles or low slope shingles on roofs with slopes from 1:6 to
less than 1:3...

Unfortunately, they're published Standards and not generally available
online which is what makes finding the info so tough.

I'd be willing to bet both either include the requirement or rely on
following manufacturers' installation procedure for the particular
product. *Universally afaik, the manufacturers' recommend same.

I'm still betting Code says "do it" even if it is widely ignored and
(apparently) not enforced.

--

I followed the same route, and came to the same online dead end. But
good job showing your work.

R

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:23:37 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

RicodJour wrote in
:



I looked up the Ontario code online, and maybe it was the format, but
I found it confusing and ambiguous. It clearly calls for eave
protection underlayment, but the wording for the rest of the roof is
unclear. Since both the Ontario and NY codes are based on the IRC,
they should have a lot of similarity. Not sure why there's such an
omission for the underlayment.



All I know is what I see, and I see a LOT around here. Not once, ever, have
I seen a new-home roofed with /any/ sort of underlayment, not even at the
eaves.
Just for ioterest - where in Ontario are you?
Toronto? or?

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

cheers

Jules
I'd never shingle a barn roof again.
Pre-coated steel, all the way.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:34:51 -0500, "
wrote:

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:59:46 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:48:46 -0700, keith wrote:

On Sep 8, 11:43Â*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. Â*The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. Â*If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. Â*(that would be one hell of a pain in the ass
if it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

I wouldn't spend more for a warranty. Better shingles (if you can
determine "better") certainly, but IMO shingle warranties are worthless.

Yeah, I'm not certain what current thinking is there. I see 25 year
warranties, 30, 50, and 'lifetime' - but often the 'lifetime' ones seem
to be for shingles that can tolerate a much lower maximum wind speed (and
they really do quote that as max speed, not "warranty up to x mph, but we
expect they'll handle much more").

I get the impression that the current "sweet spot" is probably 30yr
shingles with a high wind speed rating (120mph or so) - they're a
reasonable price, reasonable lifespan, but should take a few exceptional
storms.

Probably, but don't go by the "30yr" number. It's a marketeering number.
Generally speaking a 30 year roof needs replacement in about 17.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:25:59 -0400, clare wrote:

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

cheers

Jules
I'd never shingle a barn roof again.
Pre-coated steel, all the way.

Well, ours is a big ol' barrel-top one; it curves, but does have an apex
to it right at the top. I'm not sure what the options are there - I've
seen plenty of steel on ones with a peaked roof, or ones with a semi-
circular roof, but I'm not sure I could get something off-the-shelf
that'd fit ours (at least the corrugated steel panels, anyway; flat would
curve to fit well enough, but wouldn't be as strong).

Other thing I don't like about steel is that I see so many with huge
rusty streaks and patches on them; maybe the steel's better these days,
but I think I'd rather see a few curling shingles than rust in 30 years
time :-)

cheers

Jules

On 9/10/2010 3:28 PM, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:25:59 -0400, clare wrote:

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:43:20 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 00:09:19 -0400, Tony wrote:
The company I bought my steel roof from told me that if there is
sheathing on the roof, then it needs felt. The felt is needed to
prevent any condensation causing any problems. If you do it *barn*
style with no sheathing, then no felt is needed since it will have
adequate ventilation. (that would be one hell of a pain in the ass if
it was needed!)

I think I'll probably end up doing my barn roof with it, then shingles
with the best warranty I can get - it gets some serious wind up the top
there, even when it's calm down below (it's around 40' to the ridge
line). Yes, it'll be a pain in the butt, but no worse than doing the
shingles themselves.

cheers

Jules
I'd never shingle a barn roof again.
Pre-coated steel, all the way.

Well, ours is a big ol' barrel-top one; it curves, but does have an apex
to it right at the top. I'm not sure what the options are there - I've
seen plenty of steel on ones with a peaked roof, or ones with a semi-
circular roof, but I'm not sure I could get something off-the-shelf
that'd fit ours (at least the corrugated steel panels, anyway; flat would
curve to fit well enough, but wouldn't be as strong).

Other thing I don't like about steel is that I see so many with huge
rusty streaks and patches on them; maybe the steel's better these days,
but I think I'd rather see a few curling shingles than rust in 30 years
time :-)

My steel roof came with a 50 year guarantee on the PAINT! I think it
will outlast me. (not sure if that's good or bad?) The one thing we
did is measured and drilled all the steel on the ground. It looks great
with all the screw heads in line. I've seen ones with screws all over
and it looks like crap.

There isn't much to rust anyway. The steel roof comes in sections as
long as your roof. (unless you buy it at lows or the depot). A steel
ridge vent and what can rust besides the screw holes? And if that
happened I'd go and replace that screw. It also bends a good deal.
Talk direct to some steel roof companies to see if a single sheet will
bend enough for your roof. By the way, I love the look of those barns
on the inside. Looks like the hull of an upside down ship.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:38:55 -0400, Tony wrote:
I'd never shingle a barn roof again.
Pre-coated steel, all the way.

Well, ours is a big ol' barrel-top one; it curves, but does have an
apex to it right at the top. I'm not sure what the options are there -
I've seen plenty of steel on ones with a peaked roof, or ones with a
semi- circular roof, but I'm not sure I could get something
off-the-shelf that'd fit ours (at least the corrugated steel panels,
anyway; flat would curve to fit well enough, but wouldn't be as
strong).

Other thing I don't like about steel is that I see so many with huge
rusty streaks and patches on them; maybe the steel's better these days,
but I think I'd rather see a few curling shingles than rust in 30 years
time :-)

My steel roof came with a 50 year guarantee on the PAINT! I think it
will outlast me. (not sure if that's good or bad?)

Hmm, if it really did 50 years, that would be very good. Ours was built
in 1950 (at least that's the date that the builders left engraved in the
slab) and I think it's only had the shingles replaced once. The ones on
there at the moment are around 15 years past end of life :-) (there's no
working farm here any more, so the barn sits in the back yard as a home
to the local pigeons)

The one thing we
did is measured and drilled all the steel on the ground. It looks great
with all the screw heads in line. I've seen ones with screws all over
and it looks like crap.

That's a good idea. Plus the less time I spend on the roof the better (I
really hate being up ladders)

There isn't much to rust anyway. The steel roof comes in sections as
long as your roof. (unless you buy it at lows or the depot).

Ours is a really short-ass barn; only maybe 40 feet from end to end. The
back wall's different to the others, and I recently found out that it was
supposed to be twice as long - but for whatever reason they never built
the other half, and just 'finished' the back wall with whatever they had
on site. Even so, 40' of steel sounds like it might be interesting to get
on (particularly 40' above ground level!)

A steel
ridge vent and what can rust besides the screw holes?

The old ones I see have huge patches on them too - maybe the old steel
just wasn't of as good quality as modern stuff, and after x years it's
starting to fail (the streaks are probably down to the fixings rather
than the sheets, I suspect)

It also bends a good deal. Talk
direct to some steel roof companies to see if a single sheet will bend
enough for your roof.

Yeah, I will! I really prefer the look of shingles I think, but if modern
steel can work and the cost and lifetime is reasonable then maybe I will
end up going for that.

By the way, I love the look of those barns on the
inside. Looks like the hull of an upside down ship.

:-) I always think of it like some huge beast's rib cage. Even from the
hayloft it's about 30 feet up to the roofline. Part of me wants to
eventually insulate it - but part of me doesn't want to cover up those
timbers...

cheers

Jules