Little brick bungalow in midwest US, built in 1954.

Double-pane aluminum windows, in pretty decent shape. All but the big picture
window are kinda ordinary, stare at one for a while and you can see how
they work.

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg

Spiders, dirt, etc have penetrated between the panes of the big window.
I gotta remove a pane, clean up inside. The yews pevent most access from
outside. How to remove the inside pane?

End windows: 22 1/4 " wide, ~51 " hi.
Pic window : 49 " wide, ~50 1/2 hi.

Outside, the big window has a couple small alum. handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.

I pulled the tapper screws, pryed a tad to see if the glass would pop out.
Didn't feel like it would. Other than caulk, I dunno what else would be
holding it. There are no recesses or handles to unseat it.

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)

Thx,
Will

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:24:51 -0500, Wilfred Xavier Pickles
wrote:


Little brick bungalow in midwest US, built in 1954.

Double-pane aluminum windows, in pretty decent shape. All but the big picture
window are kinda ordinary, stare at one for a while and you can see how
they work.

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg

Spiders, dirt, etc have penetrated between the panes of the big window.
I gotta remove a pane, clean up inside. The yews pevent most access from
outside. How to remove the inside pane?

End windows: 22 1/4 " wide, ~51 " hi.
Pic window : 49 " wide, ~50 1/2 hi.

Outside, the big window has a couple small alum. handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.


Can you post some close up photos of the trim inside and outside.
Include finish trim, screws, clips, caulk etc ., etc.-


I pulled the tapper screws, pryed a tad to see if the glass would pop out.
Didn't feel like it would. Other than caulk, I dunno what else would be
holding it. There are no recesses or handles to unseat it.

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)


Maybe with some close-up shots.

Do you have _some_ window experience?

I'd want to call an insured glass company. Could turn out to be a lot
cheaper than the hospital bill for lacerations, and then having the
window replaced.

--
..
"Wilfred Xavier Pickles" wrote in message
...

Little brick bungalow in midwest US, built in 1954.

Double-pane aluminum windows, in pretty decent shape. All but the big
picture
window are kinda ordinary, stare at one for a while and you can see
how
they work.

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller
window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg

Spiders, dirt, etc have penetrated between the panes of the big
window.
I gotta remove a pane, clean up inside. The yews pevent most access
from
outside. How to remove the inside pane?

End windows: 22 1/4 " wide, ~51 " hi.
Pic window : 49 " wide, ~50 1/2 hi.

Outside, the big window has a couple small alum. handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.

I pulled the tapper screws, pryed a tad to see if the glass would pop
out.
Didn't feel like it would. Other than caulk, I dunno what else would
be
holding it. There are no recesses or handles to unseat it.

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough.
:-)

Thx,
Will

Wilfred Xavier Pickles wrote:
....

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg
....

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)
....

As others said, too far away/no detail to tell anything really.

Have set of Al storms that look to be quite similar--the little handles
are just that, nothing more.

These the clips come off and then the window will lift upwards and come
out of the bottom track. _HAS_ to be from the outside, though, there's
nothing to be done with these inside other than remove them entirely
from the opening. I'd guess similar w/ those if not identical; that
predates the "inside clean" phenomenon afaik.

--

On Jul 14, 8:10*pm, dpb wrote:
Wilfred Xavier Pickles wrote:

...

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg

...

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)

...

As others said, too far away/no detail to tell anything really.

Have set of Al storms that look to be quite similar--the little handles
are just that, nothing more.

These the clips come off and then the window will lift upwards and come
out of the bottom track. *_HAS_ to be from the outside, though, there's
nothing to be done with these inside other than remove them entirely
from the opening. *I'd guess similar w/ those if not identical; that
predates the "inside clean" phenomenon afaik.

--

Need close-ups of the Outside, the big window has a couple small alum.
handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.

Those picture window panes have to be 1/4" thick, which means that
unit is pretty darn heavy.... heavy, heavy! You will definitely need
some help. There is a good chance one or both panes will break, when
trying to remove them or the unit (inner unit?). Guage your task
against replacing with a whole new window unit, including side
units.... 2K - 3K, maybe 4K? Last I heard, Pella, Jelwen, Kolbe had
pretty good warranties on their higher line of window units.... Kolbe
- 10 yrs, complete replacement for any defect or rot, if they or their
outlet installed. I don't know too much about Mayfair.

There might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.

There should be some kind of spacer between the panes all the way
around, not just at the top, but the bottom of the panes may be seated
in a slot at the bottom of the frame... and the slots spaced. From
what you have described, so for, each pane may have been seated/sealed
on their backsides (against the spacer).... and each pane may have
been installed from their respective sides (one from the inside and
one from the outside). If this is the case, you will play hell
unseating either of those panes, .... without removing the "inner
unit", if it was constructed this way).

By inner unit, I mean.... If the scenario/construction is this:
*Your window unit would not be installed as I am about to describe. I
am describing it this way, for you to better understand the way the
unit may have been put together/manufactured. 1) Your basic window
frame (jams) was installed in the rough framing. Stops were placed
along the jams, on the outer side of the window frame. 2) The panes
were installed into another jam frame unit (a sash), with a spacer
between the panes and edge moldings to hold the panes in place. 3)
This second framing unit was installed into/inside the first frame
unit (somewhat like a regular sash) and held in place with an inside
stop/molding (stops were initially placed on the outer side, see 1
above). You would need to remove that second frame unit (containing
the panes), in order to access and cut the sealant securing the
panes. 4) In order to access the sealant, to cut it away, you would
have to destroy the second frame unit and, subsequently, make a new
one for reinstallation.... a wooden frame would work.

If there is a second inside frame unit, holding the panes, look for
where it is attached to the outer framing (hopefully from the inside
jam side, but I doubt it) . This second frame may be seated into a
bottom slot of the first frame, similarly as the panes may be seated
into bottom slots. This second frame is most likely attached to the
outer frame with screws and it is most likely screwed from the outside
of the outer frame, which means you would have to remove the whole
window unit to access those screws. You would still have a heck of a
job separating the two frames from one another. They may not only be
screwed together, but be sealed together, also.

If the window unit doesn't have a second inside frame, there is likely
no way to access and cut the sealant holding the panes, since they
seem to be or may be sealed on their back sides (sealed to/against the
spacer between them). If this is the scenario, then the only way to
remove a pane, as per your description so for, may be to break the
pane.

Before assuming any of the above, inspect again and/or get some close-
up pics, inside and outside, that we may better confirm the
construction.

There should be some rubber spacers between the edges of the panes and
its framing/jams. Don't loose those spacers, as you will need them
for reinstallation... or *replace them with new!

Sonny

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:05:43 -0700, Oren wrote:

Maybe with some close-up shots.

Do you have _some_ window experience?

I found my link.

"A remarkably simple but effective precision measurement instrument it
allows accurate measurement of glass and air-gap thickness in single,
double and triple glazed units. "

Enter Merlin.

Video:

http://www.merlinlazer.com/Glass-Measurement-Gauge

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:05:43 -0700, Oren wrote:

Outside, the big window has a couple small alum. handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.


Can you post some close up photos of the trim inside and outside.
Include finish trim, screws, clips, caulk etc ., etc.-

Here's 3 more that *may* help a bit:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2057/picwin1.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9493/picwin2.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6541/picwin3.jpg

I pulled the tapper screws, pryed a tad to see if the glass would pop out.
Didn't feel like it would. Other than caulk, I dunno what else would be
holding it. There are no recesses or handles to unseat it.

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)


Maybe with some close-up shots.

Do you have _some_ window experience?

A tiny bit. But, if someone can steer me in the right direction, I'll
figure it out sooner or later.

It doesn't *look* like the inner pane was installed from the outside.
I can't see anything else holding it in. The tapper screws are
slightly longer than the metal that the glass mounts into, seems
like they mounted the damned thing. There's a good chance it's
just stuck.

Thanks,
Will

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:10:19 -0500, dpb wrote:

Wilfred Xavier Pickles wrote:
...

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg
...

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)
...

As others said, too far away/no detail to tell anything really.

Have set of Al storms that look to be quite similar--the little handles
are just that, nothing more.

These the clips come off and then the window will lift upwards and come
out of the bottom track. _HAS_ to be from the outside, though, there's
nothing to be done with these inside other than remove them entirely
from the opening.

Precisely the opposite of what we need for security ...

I'd guess similar w/ those if not identical; that
predates the "inside clean" phenomenon afaik.

You mean the newer fancy-dancy ones that fold in. Mine are
surely not those.

Will

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:58:44 -0500, Wilfred Xavier Pickles
wrote:

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6541/picwin3.jpg

That single photo tells me that glass is removed from outside.

Then you have to have tools. Glass cups, strong workers and so on.

There is an art to de glazing a window -- without cracking the glass.

There's a good chance it's just stuck.

Thanks,
Will

That window pane unit is really heavy. That's a large window. It may
not readily move with gentle pressure, but you have to be careful with
whatever pressure you apply. If there are rubber spacers around the
sash unit, they may be flattened, some, at the bottom and they are
likely stuck down, also. Try running a thin knife blade around the
edges... see if you can feel something that would be contributing to
the "stuckness".

To be on the safe side, tape the panes well, just in case one/they
break. Is there some small printing or a logo "tattoo" on one of the
lower corners of the panes, indicating tempered glass? I didn't see
any, in the pics. If there is no logo or printing, the glass is
plate glass and would break into dangerous shards.

Sonny

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

Is there some small printing or a logo "tattoo" on one of the
lower corners of the panes, indicating tempered glass?

Ordinarily on the bottom right of the glass.

Windows installed upside down, the logo would be in the top-right or
backwards on the left top. I think. Read backwards?

On Jul 14, 11:24*pm, Wilfred Xavier Pickles
wrote:
Little brick bungalow in midwest US, built in 1954.

Double-pane aluminum windows, in pretty decent shape. All but the big picture
window are kinda ordinary, stare at one for a while and you can see how
they work.

In the front, above 3 big yews, big picture window with a smaller window on
each side:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/5636/4064parker.jpg

Spiders, dirt, etc have penetrated between the panes of the big window.
I gotta remove a pane, clean up inside. The yews pevent most access from
outside. How to remove the inside pane?

End windows: 22 1/4 " wide, ~51 " hi.
Pic window : 49 * * " wide, ~50 1/2 hi.

Outside, the big window has a couple small alum. handles and a pair of
clips on each of the 3 other sides. Inside, there are 4 small tapper
screws on each of the 4 sides of the alum. framing the glass. There
might be some wood trim at the top between the panes, everything else
is alum.

I pulled the tapper screws, pryed a tad to see if the glass would pop out..
Didn't feel like it would. Other than caulk, I dunno what else would be
holding it. There are no recesses or handles to unseat it.

Anybody got any idea how something like this might come apart? I've
been here for 25+ years and I've put off working on it long enough. :-)

Thx,
Will

1954??????????????? It's junk. Get yourself some new windows. They
will be more fuel efficient and the house will be more comfortable and
you will get less/no condensation problems. Get the metalised glass,
gas filled units. Have read through this:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_glazing

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote:

There's a good chance it's just stuck.

Thanks,
Will

That window pane unit is really heavy. That's a large window. It may
not readily move with gentle pressure, but you have to be careful with
whatever pressure you apply.

Will do. Careful, careful, and more careful.

If there are rubber spacers around the
sash unit, they may be flattened, some, at the bottom and they are
likely stuck down, also. Try running a thin knife blade around the
edges... see if you can feel something that would be contributing to
the "stuckness".

Mostly it won't penetrate at all. Around the bottom, it will go
thru half-way (only) in places.

To be on the safe side, tape the panes well, just in case one/they
break. Is there some small printing or a logo "tattoo" on one of the
lower corners of the panes, indicating tempered glass?

No. I checked all 4 corners.

I didn't see
any, in the pics. If there is no logo or printing, the glass is
plate glass and would break into dangerous shards.

The glass looks thin, like 1/8 " or less. When you look thru it at
an angle (maybe 30 degrees or less), the image is "rippled". Cheap
plate glass?

I took a tap hammer and a little block of wood to it to see if the
mounting might break loose a little. Nothin' shakin', but the spider
got very, very nervous. :-)

Looks hopeless?

Thanks,
Will

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:55:13 -0500, Wilfred Xavier Pickles
wrote:

If there are rubber spacers around the
sash unit, they may be flattened, some, at the bottom and they are
likely stuck down, also. Try running a thin knife blade around the
edges... see if you can feel something that would be contributing to
the "stuckness".

Mostly it won't penetrate at all. Around the bottom, it will go
thru half-way (only) in places.

I have a "cake spatula" that I use to de-glaze glass.*

Use good gloves, working the tool between the glass and frame. Work
around the frame / glass. The idea is to separate the glass from the
frame. The spatula is flexible making it easy to work with.

Mine is 1 inch wide and 12 inches long -- looks like the middle one in
this pic:

http://selfservebaker.com/decorating...es/spatula.jpg

No, it's not cheap glass, hell, it has lasted since '54.

Light is refracted through glass, as through water, so your view is
skewered. I'm almost certain your glass is 1/4". 1/8" glass, that
large, would have been broken, by now (60 yrs), from some form of wind
pressure... accidental slamming of a door, causing a concussion type
pressure enough to break a 1/8" pane that large.

I'm at a loss for a remedy to remove the panes/sashes. About the only
other thing I could suggest, without more detaled pics (of what?), is
to spray the edges with lithium spray lubricant and see if that
helps. Spray just enough to dampen, not to run or drip so much. If
that doesn't help, at least your lithium won't be wasted..... spray
some on a cloth and wipe the remaining sash edges and jams in your
home, making for smoother opening and closing of the windows (I'm
assuming up-down slide type). Lithium isn't oily, per se, and is
great for lubricating sticking sashes and the like. Spray a cloth and
wipe. Don't spray the sashes and jams, then wipe. Doesn't take much
for good lubrication.

Lithium spray lubricant should be available at any good hardware
store. I've never look for it at Lowes, Home Depot or the like, but
they may have it.

Sonny

It looks like a typical storm window install to me. I suspect
that you pick up on the handles, the top of the window goes up
into a "pocket" far enough to allow you to pull the bottom out and
then let the window down out of the pocket and remove. There may
have been some clips along the sides that needed to be removed to
allow this movement. If you've not opened them each year for
cleaning, I suspect they will be well married together. Flushing
the edges with a garden hose with fairly high pressure may help
flush out spiders, snakes, snails, and puppy dog tails. An air
tip would do similar.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .


"Wilfred Xavier Pickles" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT), Sonny
wrote:

There's a good chance it's just stuck.

Thanks,
Will

That window pane unit is really heavy. That's a large window.
It may
not readily move with gentle pressure, but you have to be
careful with
whatever pressure you apply.

Will do. Careful, careful, and more careful.

If there are rubber spacers around the
sash unit, they may be flattened, some, at the bottom and they
are
likely stuck down, also. Try running a thin knife blade around
the
edges... see if you can feel something that would be
contributing to
the "stuckness".

Mostly it won't penetrate at all. Around the bottom, it will go
thru half-way (only) in places.

To be on the safe side, tape the panes well, just in case
one/they
break. Is there some small printing or a logo "tattoo" on one
of the
lower corners of the panes, indicating tempered glass?

No. I checked all 4 corners.

I didn't see
any, in the pics. If there is no logo or printing, the glass is
plate glass and would break into dangerous shards.

The glass looks thin, like 1/8 " or less. When you look thru it
at
an angle (maybe 30 degrees or less), the image is "rippled".
Cheap
plate glass?

I took a tap hammer and a little block of wood to it to see if
the
mounting might break loose a little. Nothin' shakin', but the
spider
got very, very nervous. :-)

Looks hopeless?

Thanks,
Will

After finding the inside access to be hopeless, I revisited the outside.
There is a gravel garden with 3 huge yews right under the window, so I
hoped to avoid that (no room to work).

I fiddled the clips, etc until I got it loose, managed to lower the outside
pane to the ground while balancing on a cheap little step-ladder in the
damned gravel garden and with a yew branch nearly up me arse.

Mounted pane is maybe 45 lbs, measures ~50" square, so glass has gotta
be 1/8" or less?

Too hot to work now. I'll clean it up, add some spider poison, put it
back together this weekend.

Your efforts to help with this are much appreciated.

Will

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:32:31 -0700 (PDT), Sonny wrote:

No, it's not cheap glass, hell, it has lasted since '54.

Light is refracted through glass, as through water, so your view is
skewered. I'm almost certain your glass is 1/4". 1/8" glass, that
large, would have been broken, by now (60 yrs), from some form of wind
pressure... accidental slamming of a door, causing a concussion type
pressure enough to break a 1/8" pane that large.

I'm at a loss for a remedy to remove the panes/sashes. About the only
other thing I could suggest, without more detaled pics (of what?), is
to spray the edges with lithium spray lubricant and see if that
helps. Spray just enough to dampen, not to run or drip so much. If
that doesn't help, at least your lithium won't be wasted..... spray
some on a cloth and wipe the remaining sash edges and jams in your
home, making for smoother opening and closing of the windows (I'm
assuming up-down slide type). Lithium isn't oily, per se, and is
great for lubricating sticking sashes and the like. Spray a cloth and
wipe. Don't spray the sashes and jams, then wipe. Doesn't take much
for good lubrication.

Lithium spray lubricant should be available at any good hardware
store. I've never look for it at Lowes, Home Depot or the like, but
they may have it.

Sonny