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#41
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
Worked for me many times, over the years. Sounds like you need a
mentor to show you the technique. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "James H." wrote in message ... I ordered a new intake manifold, busted when I followed the errant advice to bang on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel. Don't bang and pry! |
#42
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 10, 12:09*am, "James H." wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:46:57 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE wrote: Sounds like the shear key on the flywheel may have sheared.. This will put the timing off. That's exactly what happened. The flywheel "pin" was shaped like a Z (side view) instead of a rectangle (I bought six new Briggs and Stratton flywheel keys from Ace hardware and none look like a Z from the side.) The hard part wasn't getting the flywheel off; it was figuring HOW to get the flywheel off. Banging on the crankshaft and prying up on the flywheel only served to break the plastic intake manifold in half, bending one of its bolts and breaking the other one in half. Success only came to me after I totally gave up on this crazy bang-on-the-crankshaft-and-pry-the-flywheel method. When I finally realized there were two untapped holes for a harmonic balancer puller, I simply tapped them with a 1/4 x 20 tap, and voila! The flywheel pulled off with ease using the flywheel puller. Now I have to order a new plastic intake manifold, and pick up a set of screw extractors to extract the broken intake-manifold bolt. In hind sight, if you have a Briggs and Stratton engine (specifically the Briggs and Stratton 123K02-0444-E1 engine), DO NOT pry up on the flywheel and bang down on the crankshaft (what's that gonna do anyway, beside break stuff). There's NOWHERE to pry except soft aluminum and plastic anyway. Just use a harmonic balancer puller (after tapping the holes in the flywheel left for this purpose). I wish I knew that when I started this thread! I do THANK EVERYONE for all your help; it was my first lawnmower repair in my life! When the parts come in for the broken intake manifold, I hope it will work again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plktb3a_-MI Around 4.01 he taps it off, he doesn't even bother with the prybar. |
#43
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 10, 2:24*pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT), Eric in North TX wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plktb3a_-MI Around 4.01 he taps it off, he doesn't even bother with the prybar. Apparently you've never taken a flywheel off. Based on what? I've never seen one put up that little fight, but am open to the possibility. Perhaps that Canuk has talent. Tapers are as much VooDoo as skill, I've seen really capable people walk up and drop a tie-rod or ball joint & even a small engine flywheel with a flick of the wrist, that someone else has been slaving over for hours. |
#44
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT), Eric in North TX
wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plktb3a_-MI Around 4.01 he taps it off, he doesn't even bother with the prybar. At 4:02 he points out that there are no holes for a "puller". |
#45
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 13:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Eric in North TX
wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plktb3a_-MI Around 4.01 he taps it off, he doesn't even bother with the prybar. Apparently you've never taken a flywheel off. Based on what? I've never seen one put up that little fight, but am open to the possibility. Perhaps that Canuk has talent. IME, it came off easy, because it is a horizontal crank _and_ the shear key was not sheared (you can still see in the crank key way). When the key shears it binds the flywheel and crank shaft. IOW, harder to get off for those without a "puller". It can be done. Once I popped a flywheel on a vertical shaft: placed a 2 ba fer on the nut and whacked it with a hammer. |
#46
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
The method has been in operation so long that tools are made, and
speciality items are sold. And the process is reccomended by folks who know. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "WaIIy" wrote in message ... Only a hammer mechanic uses that method. Maybe you can patent it and call it the "Budweiser method". On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 08:37:57 -0400, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Worked for me many times, over the years. Sounds like you need a mentor to show you the technique. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "James H." wrote in message ... I ordered a new intake manifold, busted when I followed the errant advice to bang on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel. Don't bang and pry! |
#47
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
I can do a steering wheel on a car with one hit. A mower flywheel is
childs play. Jr. |
#48
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 10, 8:36*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: but how is whacking the crankshaft applying ANY force whatsoever in the direction we want the flywheel to go (which is up)? Pretty much the same way an impact driver works. Also, if you have loosened any bolts/nuts, you know that just pulling on a wrench is much harder than hitting the wrench slightly with your palm is much easier and less busted knuckels. Basically the same principle. I could explain the physics if needed, but I think you get the point. Hank ~~~too lazy to write a dissertation |
#49
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:35:08 -0400, Jerry - OHIO wrote:
I can do a steering wheel on a car with one hit. A mower flywheel is childs play. In the end, the flywheel was easy to get off once I 1/4x20 tapped the two holes drilled for that purpose but never tapped by the manufacturer and then used a harmonic balancer puller which lifted it right off in seconds. One thing I just don't understand though. How is hitting DOWN on the CRANKSHAFT supposed to free the flywheel in the bang-and-lift method? Can someone explain the logic of banging on the crankshaft to remove the flywheel? |
#50
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 11, 6:01*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:35:08 -0400, Jerry - OHIO wrote: I can do a steering wheel on a car with one hit. A mower flywheel is childs play. In the end, the flywheel was easy to get off once I 1/4x20 tapped the two holes drilled for that purpose but never tapped by the manufacturer and then used a harmonic balancer puller which lifted it right off in seconds.. One thing I just don't understand though. How is hitting DOWN on the CRANKSHAFT supposed to free the flywheel in the bang-and-lift method? Can someone explain the logic of banging on the crankshaft to remove the flywheel? I'll try (sigh) There is some end play in the crank whether you can feel it or not. The lift with the prybar / screwdriver, takes that up, the hammer blow drives the crankshaft down, while the lift holds the flywheel up causing the crankshaft to move through the flywheel. The hammer blow needs to be quick rather than hard. |
#51
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On 7/11/2010 6:01 PM, James H. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 02:35:08 -0400, Jerry - OHIO wrote: I can do a steering wheel on a car with one hit. A mower flywheel is childs play. In the end, the flywheel was easy to get off once I 1/4x20 tapped the two holes drilled for that purpose but never tapped by the manufacturer and then used a harmonic balancer puller which lifted it right off in seconds. One thing I just don't understand though. How is hitting DOWN on the CRANKSHAFT supposed to free the flywheel in the bang-and-lift method? Can someone explain the logic of banging on the crankshaft to remove the flywheel? what you do is stick a pry bar UNDER the flywheel, then with the nut started on the crankshaft (to protect the threads) you sharply rap the crank and the flywheel will pop right off. Basically, you are using the (very small) amount of crankshaft end play as your movement. Those holes were not tapped, because that is not what they are for. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#52
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 21:31:34 -0700, James H. wrote:
What is the typical thing to look for that broke when my lawnmower hit a stationary object? Thanks to all your help, you guys enabled me to figure out what the problem was. As you all said, it was the flywheel key. Here are pictures of the job. I learned a lot. What's important to tell others is that the "traditional" brute-force method of removing a flywheel is only for experts and even then, only for people working on other people's mowers! See details he Direct Link: http://img251.imageshack.us/g/image001ol.jpg/ Short Link: http://yfrog.com/6zimage001oljx Web Player: http://img251.imageshack.us/slidesho...image001ol.jpg |
#53
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 13, 4:07*am, "James H." wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 21:31:34 -0700, James H. wrote: What is the typical thing to look for that broke when my lawnmower hit a stationary object? Thanks to all your help, you guys enabled me to figure out what the problem was. As you all said, it was the flywheel key. Here are pictures of the job. I learned a lot. What's important to tell others is that the "traditional" brute-force method of removing a flywheel is only for experts and even then, only for people working on other people's mowers! See details he Direct Link:http://img251.imageshack.us/g/image001ol.jpg/ Short Link:http://yfrog.com/6zimage001oljx Web Player:http://img251.imageshack.us/slidesho...image001ol.jpg Flywheels are balanced, I have one balanced with a weight on a boat motor, I hope it runs ok because drilling it changed the balance. I had a flywheel on a boat motor that was so tough to remove it took days and ruined - bent, one puller. I can see how it could be hard to remove but it takes practice and maybe a special tool since it had no holes. |
#54
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 13, 7:34*am, ransley wrote:
On Jul 13, 4:07*am, "James H." wrote: On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 21:31:34 -0700, James H. wrote: What is the typical thing to look for that broke when my lawnmower hit a stationary object? Thanks to all your help, you guys enabled me to figure out what the problem was. As you all said, it was the flywheel key. Here are pictures of the job. I learned a lot. What's important to tell others is that the "traditional" brute-force method of removing a flywheel is only for experts and even then, only for people working on other people's mowers! See details he Direct Link:http://img251.imageshack.us/g/image001ol.jpg/ Short Link:http://yfrog.com/6zimage001oljx Web Player:http://img251.imageshack.us/slidesho...image001ol.jpg Flywheels are balanced, I have one balanced with a weight on a boat motor, I hope it runs ok because drilling it changed the balance. I had a flywheel on a boat motor that was so tough to remove it took days and ruined - bent, one puller. I can see how it could be hard to remove but it takes practice and maybe a special tool since it had no holes.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#55
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 13, 5:07*am, "James H." wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 21:31:34 -0700, James H. wrote: What is the typical thing to look for that broke when my lawnmower hit a stationary object? Thanks to all your help, you guys enabled me to figure out what the problem was. As you all said, it was the flywheel key. Here are pictures of the job. I learned a lot. What's important to tell others is that the "traditional" brute-force method of removing a flywheel is only for experts and even then, only for people working on other people's mowers! See details he Direct Link:http://img251.imageshack.us/g/image001ol.jpg/ Short Link:http://yfrog.com/6zimage001oljx Web Player:http://img251.imageshack.us/slidesho...image001ol.jpg First check for a bent blade. If you replace the blade & it still shakes/wobbles you bent the crank. |
#56
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 13, 5:07*am, "James H." wrote:
What's important to tell others is that the "traditional" brute-force method of removing a flywheel is only for experts and even then, only for people working on other people's mowers! No. What's important is to tell others that engine work is too complicated for morons who didn't pay attention in 7th grade physical science class. |
#57
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 04:34:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley wrote:
Flywheels are balanced ... I hope it runs ok because drilling it changed the balance. I Hi Ransley, I updated the pictures to show the flywheel holes. http://img708.imageshack.us/g/briggs...tonflywhe.jpg/ http://yfrog.com/jobriggsandstrattonflywhej http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7...strattonflywhe I hope tapping them didn't change the balance as that's all that is required. Do you think merely tapping the two holes changes the balance? It's the proper way to remove this flywheel (I now know). Once cleaned (and chalked), you can see in the pictures the Briggs and Stratton flywheel says "TO REMOVE, USE WHEEL PULLER HOLES", and then it has two big arrows pointing to the two untapped holes. So, the instructions I was given to bang and pry were wrong, at least they're wrong in two ways: 1. It's definitely not the manufacture's documented method 2. It's not for someone with zero experience (such as I am). This video shows the (wrong) traditional method: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/ So, I'm posting here to help the next homeowner. The proper way to remove THIS Briggs & Stratton flywheel is: 1. Tap the two pre-drilled holes (1/4 x 20) 2. Pull up with a BS 19069 flywheel puller (available as a harmonic balancer puller at any auto parts store) The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069): http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368 http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979 http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm Briggs & Stratton FAQs say to use the flywheel puller: http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3422 This says it's dangerous (to the equipment) to smack the crankshaft. http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/...el_removal.asp This says the same thing: http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmflyrml.htm This also says to use the flywheel puller: http://www.ehow.com/way_5655790_brig...l-removal.html So, I now know the answer but I want the next guy who runs across this advice to get the right advice; otherwise they'll end up breaking more than they repair just as I did by using the wrong method and the wrong tools in the wrong way to remove a Briggs & Stratton flywheel. Thansk everyone! I hope this helps others. |
#58
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:01:08 -0700 (PDT), m6onz5a wrote:
First check for a bent blade. If you replace the blade & it still shakes/wobbles you bent the crank. Thanks for that advice. I don't see a wobble in the blade but I did order a new blade and I'll report back whether or not the crankshaft is bent. I'll measure the distance from the blade to the ground in the East-West position and then in the North-South position. If it's off, I'll buy a new crankshaft and put it in if I can. That would be a whole new set of pictures! http://img708.imageshack.us/g/briggs...tonflywhe.jpg/ http://yfrog.com/jobriggsandstrattonflywhej http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7...ttonflywhe.jpg |
#59
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
What's important is to tell others that engine work is too complicated for morons While using the brute-force method of removing a flywheel works: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/ The proper way to remove this type of Briggs & Stratton flywheel is to tap the holes and use a Briggs & Stratton BS 19069 flywheel puller (also available as a harmonic balancer puller at any auto parts store). You can see the words saying so right on the flywheel (once cleaned & chalked) in these photos of the job (and destruction) I took: http://img708.imageshack.us/g/briggs...tonflywhe.jpg/ http://yfrog.com/jobriggsandstrattonflywhej http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7...ttonflywhe.jpg The Briggs & Stratton FAQ says to tap the holes with a 1/4 x 20 tap: http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3422 http://www.briggsracing.com/en/artic...el-puller.aspx Other articles say to tap the holes and use the flywheel puller: http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/...el_removal.asp http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmflyrml.htm http://www.ehow.com/way_5655790_brig...l-removal.html This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069): http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368 http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979 http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A Net result: 1. Do not pry and bang 2. You must tap and pull |
#60
Posted to alt.home.repair,misc.consumers.frugal-living,rec.autos.tech
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:49:26 -0700, "James H."
wrote: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:01:08 -0700 (PDT), m6onz5a wrote: First check for a bent blade. If you replace the blade & it still shakes/wobbles you bent the crank. Thanks for that advice. I don't see a wobble in the blade but I did order a new blade and I'll report back whether or not the crankshaft is bent. I'll measure the distance from the blade to the ground in the East-West position and then in the North-South position. If it's off, I'll buy a new crankshaft and put it in if I can. That would be a whole new set of pictures! Caution: Replacing the crankshaft may require the judicial use of a pry bar and a hammer. You have been warned. If you bent the crank, go buy a new mower for 200 bucks. |
#61
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
James H. wrote:
Net result: 1. Do not pry and bang 2. You must tap and pull That would be "you", not me. |
#62
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:36:59 -0700, Bob F wrote:
Net result: 1. Do not pry and bang 2. You must tap and pull That would be "you", not me. I have an old mower which might have the same problem. I read some of the references and noticed the ones that compared the two methods always suggested the contraption to pull the flywheel up. Does anyone know of a reference that actually compares the two methods and still recommends the sharp tap with a hammer over the use of the special tool? TITLE: Flywheel Removal - The Right Way and Several Wrong Ways QUOTE: "The best technique requires a special tool - a flywheel puller; the least preferred method requires nothing more than a hammer and a screwdriver, but can easily result in serious damage to the flywheel and or crankshaft." TITLE: http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmflyrml.htm QUOTE: "There are several approaches to flywheel removal. The best way by far is to use a special puller designed for your particular engine. Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh flywheels usually have 2 or 3 holes placed around the center of the flywheel which are used with special puller blocks. These have self tapping bolts which you thread into the holes and then tighten down nuts to pop the flywheel off of the crankshaft." |
#63
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:42:03 +0000 (UTC), Brent wrote:
TITLE: Flywheel Removal - The Right Way and Several Wrong Ways Ops. I forgot to list the reference for the first quote comparing the methods and concluding the special tool was the preferred method. http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/...el_removal.asp The second quote came from here. http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmflyrml.htm Both compared the two methods and concluded the special tool was safer. Do you know of any reference that compares both methods yet still recommends the hammer and screwdriver method over the puller method? |
#64
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:46:40 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote: Both compared the two methods and concluded the special tool was safer. Golly gee. We all know the hammer is last resort. Some flywheels don't have holes for a puller. Using the wrong "special tool" as the OP -- you can fracture the flywheel. He bent his flywheel... he saw it "bend". Do you know of any reference that compares both methods yet still recommends the hammer and screwdriver method over the puller method? Tradition, I say! My best reference was my grandfather. I was knee-high to a grass hopper. Off the frame, he picked the engine up by the flywheel (nut positioned at the top). Not far from the ground he smacked the crank... remove nut and go to work. Sorry I didn't keep a journal |
#65
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
Brent wrote: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:36:59 -0700, Bob F wrote: Net result: 1. Do not pry and bang 2. You must tap and pull That would be "you", not me. I have an old mower which might have the same problem. You don't have to take the flywheel off to determine if the key is sheared. Just remove the retaining nut and look at the key. If it isn't sheared no need to take off the flywheel. -jim I read some of the references and noticed the ones that compared the two methods always suggested the contraption to pull the flywheel up. Does anyone know of a reference that actually compares the two methods and still recommends the sharp tap with a hammer over the use of the special tool? TITLE: Flywheel Removal - The Right Way and Several Wrong Ways QUOTE: "The best technique requires a special tool - a flywheel puller; the least preferred method requires nothing more than a hammer and a screwdriver, but can easily result in serious damage to the flywheel and or crankshaft." TITLE: http://www.repairfaq.org/samnew/lmfaq/lmflyrml.htm QUOTE: "There are several approaches to flywheel removal. The best way by far is to use a special puller designed for your particular engine. Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh flywheels usually have 2 or 3 holes placed around the center of the flywheel which are used with special puller blocks. These have self tapping bolts which you thread into the holes and then tighten down nuts to pop the flywheel off of the crankshaft." |
#66
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:27:05 -0500, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net
wrote: I have an old mower which might have the same problem. You don't have to take the flywheel off to determine if the key is sheared. Just remove the retaining nut and look at the key. If it isn't sheared no need to take off the flywheel. No but looking at the shear key under the nut will not tell you if the key fractured midway in the crank key way. Some keys don't snap or look obvious. The engine will misfire. |
#67
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
On Jul 13, 9:14*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:27:05 -0500, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote: I have an old mower which might have the same problem. You don't have to take the flywheel off to determine if the key is sheared. Just remove the retaining nut and look at the key. If it isn't sheared no need to take off the flywheel. No but looking at the shear key under the nut will not tell you if the key fractured *midway in the crank key way. Some keys don't snap or look obvious. The engine will misfire. Yep, BTDT and have the t-shirt. Took me a full day fooling with it before I finally pulled the flywheel and saw the half-sheared key. Harry K |
#68
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Craftsman push lawnmower wobble after hitting rocks won't start
Oren wrote: On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:27:05 -0500, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote: I have an old mower which might have the same problem. You don't have to take the flywheel off to determine if the key is sheared. Just remove the retaining nut and look at the key. If it isn't sheared no need to take off the flywheel. No but looking at the shear key under the nut will not tell you if the key fractured midway in the crank key way. Some keys don't snap or look obvious. The engine will misfire. If you can't tell if the flywheel and shaft keyways are aligned, then maybe a visit to the optometrist will help. I don't even use a key. Just line up the two key slots and tighten the nut. Eliminating the jammed key makes it easier to remove if you hit something, also. -jim |
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