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Concrete floor over dirt basement?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 24th 10, 08:12 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,030
Default Celotex for expansion joints?


"Jay Pique" wrote

What I'm planning to do is to excavate down around the perimeter of
the basement a few inches and put in a drain pipe ("tile"...why the
heck do they still call it that?) that leads to a sump pit I'm going
to dig. Then I'm going to put down a few inches of washed concrete
and tamp and level it. On top of that I'm going to put a double layer
of 6 mil poly with overlapping, taped seams. This I will run up the
wall 6" or so and temporarily tape it. Then I'm going to run a
perimeter of 4" expansion joint material against the wall. Not sure
how I'm going to hold that in place - maybe tape it to the poly in a
few spots? Ooops! - forgot about my new interior ground ring for my
electric system. That goes first. So now I think I'm ready to pour
my slab, right? Rather than mess with reinfocing steel mesh I'm
thinking of paying the extra 8 bucks a yard for the fiber
reinforcement material. I've got a couple guys to help that have done
a lot of concrete work, and I'm going to rent a power trowel. Am I
missing anything?

JP


2" of insulation under the slab if you are in a cold climate.
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  #12  
Old July 25th 10, 01:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,938
Default Celotex for expansion joints?

On Jul 24, 11:01*am, Jay Pique wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:39*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:





"Jay Pique" wrote in message


....


Regarding the use of expansion joints in the basement, I priced out
the "actual" stuff at around 40 cents a lineal foot for the 1/2"x4"
stuff. *Then I got to thinking that Celotex is only $8.40 per SHEET
which will get me 88 feet, so only about a dime a foot. *My question
is, will this do the same job as the real stuff? Thanks.
JP


May be OK indoors, but outdoors it would deteriorate fast from the weather.
Anything that allows movement will work. *Indoors, there is little thermal
variation over the course of a year so anything may do the job, including
nothing. *Variation indoors may be 30 degrees over the year while outdoors
it can be 100+ along with freezing water in joints.


What I'm planning to do is to excavate down around the perimeter of
the basement a few inches and put in a drain pipe ("tile"...why the
heck do they still call it that?) that leads to a sump pit I'm going
to dig. *Then I'm going to put down a few inches of washed concrete
and tamp and level it. *On top of that I'm going to put a double layer
of 6 mil poly with overlapping, taped seams. *This I will run up the
wall 6" or so and temporarily tape it. *Then I'm going to run a
perimeter of 4" expansion joint material against the wall. Not sure
how I'm going to hold that in place - maybe tape it to the poly in a
few spots? *Ooops! - forgot about my new interior ground ring for my
electric system. *That goes first. *So now I think I'm ready to pour
my slab, right? *Rather than mess with reinfocing steel mesh I'm
thinking of paying the extra 8 bucks a yard for the fiber
reinforcement material. *I've got a couple guys to help that have done
a lot of concrete work, and I'm going to rent a power trowel. *Am I
missing anything?

JP- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Insulating the floor is a good idea if it gets cold in winter and heat
bills are big, where I am Zone 5 it gets to -20f and the dirt at 5 ft
down is 50f most of the year. I dug out a basement, put in a drain
tile system, 2" polyisocyanurate foam board and ran radiant tubing for
any future heat system. Heat rises and having a warm floor is great if
you might use the basement as living area. The foam keeps it warmer in
winter even without the radiant tubes hooked up yet. The surrounding
dirt is cooling you all winter. costing you money to heat it so
insulation does help. Have a center drain pitched to the sump pump.
the sump must go outside not in city drain in my area. A sink or
condensate or washer can go into the city drain. I dont think an
expansion joint is necessary, All the high quality 80-90 yr old houses
I see dont have any and are still sealed tight and dont leak, a joint
just is an opening for water to come in, we just had 7-8.5" rain
friday, I didnt leak anywhere, my neighbors didnt leak, concrete is to
wall with no joint. A vapor barrier is a good idea ad added protection
even with foam board. I have 2 pits and pumps, one for the tile system
goes outside, and the sink, furnace and dehumidifier condensate and
washer go to the city drain. A ground system someone mentioned sounds
interesting.
  #13  
Old July 25th 10, 05:06 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,069
Default Celotex for expansion joints?

Tar impregnated sheathing ( black Celotex) will be just fine for
expansion joint. Many places sell it pre cut.

As to your project:

It sounds like you do not have a floor now.

I'm not sure what you mean by washed concrete, unless you mean
wash out. Wash out can be very difficult to work with if you do
not have machinery. Perhaps you meant washed gravel? Any coarse,
anti capillary stone will do - 6" preferred.

You would be much better off using one layer of 10 or 15 mil
underslab vapor barrier. Here is one brand from W R Meadows:
http://www.wrmeadows.com/wrm00068.htm called Perminator that I
use. Here's a movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPQHxemJyy0
watch out for that red tape - stickiest stuff I know of.

It would be normal to nail the expansion joint to the concrete
walls with a PAT




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .


"Jay Pique" wrote in message
...
On Jul 24, 11:39 am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Jay Pique" wrote in message

...

Regarding the use of expansion joints in the basement, I
priced out
the "actual" stuff at around 40 cents a lineal foot for the
1/2"x4"
stuff. Then I got to thinking that Celotex is only $8.40 per
SHEET
which will get me 88 feet, so only about a dime a foot. My
question
is, will this do the same job as the real stuff? Thanks.
JP


May be OK indoors, but outdoors it would deteriorate fast from
the weather.
Anything that allows movement will work. Indoors, there is
little thermal
variation over the course of a year so anything may do the job,
including
nothing. Variation indoors may be 30 degrees over the year while
outdoors
it can be 100+ along with freezing water in joints.


What I'm planning to do is to excavate down around the perimeter
of
the basement a few inches and put in a drain pipe ("tile"...why
the
heck do they still call it that?) that leads to a sump pit I'm
going
to dig. Then I'm going to put down a few inches of washed
concrete
and tamp and level it. On top of that I'm going to put a double
layer
of 6 mil poly with overlapping, taped seams. This I will run up
the
wall 6" or so and temporarily tape it. Then I'm going to run a
perimeter of 4" expansion joint material against the wall. Not
sure
how I'm going to hold that in place - maybe tape it to the poly in
a
few spots? Ooops! - forgot about my new interior ground ring for
my
electric system. That goes first. So now I think I'm ready to
pour
my slab, right? Rather than mess with reinfocing steel mesh I'm
thinking of paying the extra 8 bucks a yard for the fiber
reinforcement material. I've got a couple guys to help that have
done
a lot of concrete work, and I'm going to rent a power trowel. Am
I
missing anything?

JP


  #14  
Old July 26th 10, 11:32 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Celotex for expansion joints?

On Jul 25, 12:06*pm, "DanG" wrote:
Tar impregnated sheathing ( black Celotex) will be just fine for
expansion joint. *Many places sell it pre cut.

As to your project:

It sounds like you do not have a floor now.

I'm not sure what you mean by washed concrete(.)


Me neither - I meant washed gravel. I'm reading "Renovating Old
Houses: Bringing New Life to Vintage Homes" and that's what was
recommended under the concrete and vapor barrier.

JP

  #15  
Old July 26th 10, 11:38 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Celotex for expansion joints?

On Jul 25, 8:16*am, ransley wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:01*am, Jay Pique wrote:





On Jul 24, 11:39*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


"Jay Pique" wrote in message


....


Regarding the use of expansion joints in the basement, I priced out
the "actual" stuff at around 40 cents a lineal foot for the 1/2"x4"
stuff. *Then I got to thinking that Celotex is only $8.40 per SHEET
which will get me 88 feet, so only about a dime a foot. *My question
is, will this do the same job as the real stuff? Thanks.
JP


May be OK indoors, but outdoors it would deteriorate fast from the weather.
Anything that allows movement will work. *Indoors, there is little thermal
variation over the course of a year so anything may do the job, including
nothing. *Variation indoors may be 30 degrees over the year while outdoors
it can be 100+ along with freezing water in joints.


What I'm planning to do is to excavate down around the perimeter of
the basement a few inches and put in a drain pipe ("tile"...why the
heck do they still call it that?) that leads to a sump pit I'm going
to dig. *Then I'm going to put down a few inches of washed concrete
and tamp and level it. *On top of that I'm going to put a double layer
of 6 mil poly with overlapping, taped seams. *This I will run up the
wall 6" or so and temporarily tape it. *Then I'm going to run a
perimeter of 4" expansion joint material against the wall. Not sure
how I'm going to hold that in place - maybe tape it to the poly in a
few spots? *Ooops! - forgot about my new interior ground ring for my
electric system. *That goes first. *So now I think I'm ready to pour
my slab, right? *Rather than mess with reinfocing steel mesh I'm
thinking of paying the extra 8 bucks a yard for the fiber
reinforcement material. *I've got a couple guys to help that have done
a lot of concrete work, and I'm going to rent a power trowel. *Am I
missing anything?


JP- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Insulating the floor is a good idea if it gets cold in winter and heat
bills are big, where I am Zone 5 it gets to -20f and the dirt at 5 ft
down is 50f most of the year. I dug out a basement, put in a drain
tile system, 2" polyisocyanurate foam board and ran radiant tubing for
any future heat system. Heat rises and having a warm floor is great if
you might use the basement as living area. The foam keeps it warmer in
winter even without the radiant tubes hooked up yet. The surrounding
dirt is cooling you all winter. costing you money to heat it so
insulation does help. Have a center drain pitched to the sump pump.
the sump must go outside not in city drain in my area. A sink or
condensate or washer can go into the city drain. I dont think an
expansion joint is necessary, All the high quality 80-90 yr old houses
I see dont have any and are still sealed tight and dont leak, a joint
just is an opening for water to come in, we just had 7-8.5" rain
friday, I didnt leak anywhere, my neighbors didnt leak, concrete is to
wall with no joint. A vapor barrier is a good idea ad added protection
even with foam board. I have 2 pits and pumps, one for the tile system
goes outside, and the sink, furnace and dehumidifier condensate and
washer go to the city drain. A ground system someone mentioned sounds
interesting.- Hide quoted text -


That's probably a good idea, but now we're talking some excavation
too. I'm gonna have to think about it. It's not really going to be
used much except for storage and the clothes washer/dryer. Thanks for
the info.

 




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