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Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 19th 10, 02:58 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 72
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc, that
would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous) for helping
to supplement breathing / respiration ?
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  #2  
Old June 19th 10, 03:32 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 72
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

BQ340 wrote:

Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc,
that would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous)
for helping to supplement breathing / respiration ?


Nope, they are the same. I see the paramedics at the welding supply
store all the time, getting their bottles filled from the same rack
mine are.


And just to be clear -

Welding oxygen is more (way more) than just compressed "air". And what
I mean by "air" is the stuff that's all around us right now.

Yes?
  #3  
Old June 19th 10, 04:07 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 165
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

On Jun 18, 10:32*pm, Some Guy wrote:
BQ340 wrote:
Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc,
that would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous)
for helping to supplement breathing / respiration ?


Nope, they are the same. I see the paramedics at the welding supply
store all the time, getting their bottles filled from the same rack
mine are.


And just to be clear -

Welding oxygen is more (way more) than just compressed "air". *And what
I mean by "air" is the stuff that's all around us right now.

Yes?


To be precise it is way less. The air we breath is roughly twenty
percent oxygen. Medical oxygen is nearly one hundred percent oxygen.
The inert components of air are removed from the compressed oxygen
that is used for patient breathing assistance and making ordinary
metals burn and melt together into a single piece of metal.
--
Tom Horne
  #4  
Old June 19th 10, 04:22 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 3,053
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

On Jun 18, 6:58*pm, Some Guy wrote:
Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc, that
would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous) for helping
to supplement breathing / respiration ?


Yes there is a difference according to my first aid training (years
ago). You can use in the case of emergency. It is IIRC too dry to
use for extended periods (I should have paid more attention to that
discussion).

Harry K
  #5  
Old June 19th 10, 04:32 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 948
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:17:27 -0400, BQ340 wrote:
On 6/18/2010 9:58 PM, Some Guy wrote:
Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc, that
would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous) for helping
to supplement breathing / respiration ?


Nope, they are the same. I see the paramedics at the welding supply
store all the time, getting their bottles filled from the same rack mine
are.


They *can* be the same depending on the store. Welding grade isn't safe
for medical use. Stores often stock only medical grade instead of
maintaining multiple grades.
  #6  
Old June 19th 10, 04:37 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,030
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?


"Some Guy" wrote in message ...
Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs medical
oxygen as far as purity, concentration, hazardous impurities, etc, that
would render welding oxygen insufficient (or even dangerous) for helping
to supplement breathing / respiration ?


Certification. Medical oxygen has to be certified to a certain purity,
welding does not. You pay for that test and the potential liability that
goes along with it.

  #7  
Old June 19th 10, 04:53 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 72
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

Tom Horne wrote:

Is there any difference between a tank of welding oxygen vs
medical oxygen (...)


And just to be clear -

Welding oxygen is more (way more) than just compressed "air".
And what I mean by "air" is the stuff that's all around us
right now.

Yes?


To be precise it is way less. The air we breath is roughly twenty
percent oxygen.


And what I meant by "way more" was that welding oxygen has a higher
oxygen content (or oxygen concentration) vs ordinary air. So I don't
know why you'd say it's "way less".

Medical oxygen is nearly one hundred percent oxygen.


And likewise for welding oxygen - yes?

Harry K wrote:

Yes there is a difference according to my first aid training (years
ago). You can use in the case of emergency. It is IIRC too dry to
use for extended periods (I should have paid more attention to that
discussion).


From what I've been reading tonight, ALL forms of compressed oxygen
(Aviation, Medical, Welding) come from the SAME source (a tank of Liquid
Oxygen - LOX) and are transfered to variously labelled tanks and charged
various prices based on the label on the tank.

My guess is that the price differential is caused by liability insurance
and the need to recoup that cost based on the end-use of the gas. The
insurance industry might perceive that aviation oxygen (as a product)
carries the highest risk to the producer / seller, with medical oxygen
less risky, and welding oxygen the lowest risk. Risk in this context
means what sort of incident could happen if the wrong gas is
accidentially sold to the end user, or could happen if the tank fails.

The humidity of compressed oxygen seems to be a red herring. In medical
situations such as the hospital bedside, oxygen supply lines are passed
through a bubbler or some other humidification device to add humidity to
the air. This is a stationary situation where the person is likely to
be on the air supply for an extended period, and humidification is done
more for comfort or to prevent airway irritation than anything else. In
other medical situations (EMS O2 respirator tanks) the air is dry -
because it simply can't supply O2 for an extended period anyways.

And you don't want to get water in your high-pressure tanks anyways - if
only so they don't rust.

Aviation air also can't contain a lot of humidity because (or so the
story goes) the water could freeze at high altitudes and mess up the
supply and metering lines.

So the bottom line is that if you walk into a welding supply store to
buy an oxygen tank, don't let on that you intend to use it to fill your
plane's on-board tank, or you want to make an oxygen tent for your sick
pet. The guy behind the counter will most likely go ape-**** and either
deny your purchase, or force you to buy the more expensive tank -
probably because their insurance company forces them to do that.

The insurance industry plays a far larger role behind the scenes in our
daily lives than we realize. The products we can buy, the services we
use, the way they are delivered or sold to us, etc, exist because the
manufacterers, retails or providers have reached a stable (perhaps even
strained) coexistance with the insurance industry.
  #8  
Old June 19th 10, 04:56 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 72
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

AZ Nomad wrote:

They *can* be the same depending on the store. Welding grade isn't
safe for medical use.


Are you aware of any impurities that are present in the generation of
bulk O2 that are specifically removed when "medical" grade O2 is
created?

Stores often stock only medical grade instead of maintaining
multiple grades.


Even welding supply stores will stock only "medical grade" oxygen?

You people might want to read this:

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html
  #9  
Old June 19th 10, 05:04 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 72
Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Certification. Medical oxygen has to be certified to a certain
purity, welding does not.


How exactly can compressed oxygen be "impure" ?

Are some oxygen molecules more pure than other oxygen molecules?

Or does the Medical oxygen tank look nicer and cleaner than the Welding
oxygen tank?

You pay for that test and the potential liability that goes
along with it.


I think you pay more for medical and aviation O2 because the
consequences can be more expensive if there is a problem with the
product (the product being compressed oxygen). The product itself is no
more expensive or different or has any additional processing steps done
to it on the basis of it's sale in it's variously-labelled forms.
  #10  
Old June 19th 10, 05:47 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Can welding Oxygen be used in place of medical oxygen?


"Some Guy" wrote in message ...
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Certification. Medical oxygen has to be certified to a certain
purity, welding does not.


How exactly can compressed oxygen be "impure" ?

Are some oxygen molecules more pure than other oxygen molecules?



The content of bottled oxygen is not 100% pure. It is 99.xxx% pure. That
other tiny amount can be anything in the atmosphere or it can be some
contaminant from the bottle. I used to work with medical oxygen and every
batch had a certification giving the purity.



Or does the Medical oxygen tank look nicer and cleaner than the Welding
oxygen tank?

You pay for that test and the potential liability that goes
along with it.


I think you pay more for medical and aviation O2 because the
consequences can be more expensive if there is a problem with the
product (the product being compressed oxygen).


That is what I just said above.


The product itself is no
more expensive or different or has any additional processing steps done
to it on the basis of it's sale in it's variously-labelled forms.


It has a step that does not have to be taken with welding oxygen.
Certification. O2 tanks have been contaminated in the past. Rare, but it
has happened. Filling my own tanks, I'd not be concerned about using
welding oxygen, but I'm not so quick to grab a tank off the back of a truck
at a job site and start breathing it. If you get the certification with
welding grade, then it is the same. That piece of paper is worth a lot of
money if there ever was a problem.



 




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