[KOS]

hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

[Joe]

On May 20, 12:18*pm, KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! *why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

Might be the first indication of a shoddy job. Typical shortcuts that
lead to problems are poor substrate (particle board, etc.), slopping
on thinset or mastic and putting down dry tiles, so micro movements
let the grout break away. DITRA is the plastic backing often seen in
quality tile jobs. If you don't recall that being used on your tile
work, that is a clue. Your best recourse may be to find better tile
specialists and have it done over right.

Joe

[G Mulcaster]

On Thu, 20 May 2010 10:18:54 -0700 (PDT), KOS
wrote:

hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

I've replaced my entrance grout twice.

The floor is a 9' span of 2 x 10s with two layers of plywood glued and
screwed together, totalling one inch thick. Ditra was placed on top
of that.

I don't think it is a movement problem.

Each time the grout was fresh - it hadn't been sitting around getting
stale.

I was careful not to wet (and weaken) the grout too much when
sponging off.

The only thing I can come up with as a fault is that I may be stirring
too much air into the grout by mixing too fast.

Going to try it again this Winter.

Gary

[Bob F]

G Mulcaster wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 10:18:54 -0700 (PDT), KOS
wrote:

hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

I've replaced my entrance grout twice.

The floor is a 9' span of 2 x 10s with two layers of plywood glued and
screwed together, totalling one inch thick. Ditra was placed on top
of that.

The sources I've read said you need a MINIMUM of 1 1/4" of wood under the
concrete board and tile on floors.

[[email protected][_2_]]

KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would expect
the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like a
trampoline. I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too little
water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint betw. tile.
Was there adhesive up between the tile? Grout crumbling and coming out?
A better description, or photos, might help. What repairs did the
tileman make? Remove all and regrout? Do you have a contract that
specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288

[[email protected][_2_]]

G Mulcaster wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 10:18:54 -0700 (PDT), KOS
wrote:

hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

I've replaced my entrance grout twice.

The floor is a 9' span of 2 x 10s with two layers of plywood glued and
screwed together, totalling one inch thick. Ditra was placed on top
of that.

I don't think it is a movement problem.

Each time the grout was fresh - it hadn't been sitting around getting
stale.

I was careful not to wet (and weaken) the grout too much when
sponging off.

The only thing I can come up with as a fault is that I may be stirring
too much air into the grout by mixing too fast.

Going to try it again this Winter.

Gary

I replaced the grout in our master bath shower. I'm not a professional
anything, just a stubborn DIY'er. Our tile is about 40 y/o and had
developed a few pinholes...not a crack anywhere, but we are on a slab.
I used premixed, unsanded grout (tiles about 1/8" apart). It was a
tough job because I'm not muscular, and I had a few spots that weren't
entirely filled...not from lack of effort...just teeny-tiny little
surface defects. No cracking or other signs of deterioration 5 yrs. on.
It would be easy for someone in a hurry to do a sloppy job and not press
in sufficient grout.

[KOS]

On May 20, 7:31*pm, "
wrote:
KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! *why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would expect
the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like a
trampoline. *I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too little
water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint betw. tile.
Was there adhesive up between the tile? *Grout crumbling and coming out?
* A better description, or photos, might help. *What repairs did the
tileman make? *Remove all and regrout? *Do you have a contract that
specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288

I dont have any photos to provide.. More info... The bathroom was a
total demo job.. New floor... We used Travertine tile... The problem
area is on the bathroom floor, not shower stall.... This are the big
travertine tiles... He used Macpei unsanded grout, b/c of the small
joints... I noticed some areas, not all, that were like, "cracked"-
the grout that is... 2 years after the job.. He chopped it out and
layed new grout...Sound like poor installation? He says that since its
2 years old that can happen to grout- stupid answer??

[harry]

On May 20, 6:18�pm, KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! �why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

Well there are two possibilites. One is that the substrate is flexing
excessively. If the ply is not down tight to all the joists (ie the
joist are not lined up you might have a problem. You didn't say how
far apart your joists were, (the other factor in the equation).
However the most likely is that the wrong tile adhesive and/or grout
has been used. A speacial more expensive one is need to fix tiles to
timber. Also a special grout. As long as the tiles are not coming
loose I would remove all the grout and put in silicone caulk instead.

[harry]

On May 21, 2:11�am, KOS wrote:
On May 20, 7:31�pm, "
wrote:





KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! �why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would expect
the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like a
trampoline. �I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too little
water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint betw. tile.
Was there adhesive up between the tile? �Grout crumbling and coming out?
� A better description, or photos, might help. �What repairs did the
tileman make? �Remove all and regrout? �Do you have a contract that
specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288

I dont have any photos to provide.. More info... The bathroom was a
total demo job.. New floor... We used Travertine tile... The problem
area is on the bathroom floor, not shower stall.... This are the big
travertine tiles... He used Macpei unsanded grout, b/c of the small
joints... I noticed some areas, not all, that were like, "cracked"-
the grout that is... 2 years after the job.. He chopped it out and
layed new grout...Sound like poor installation? He says that since its
2 years old that can happen to grout- stupid answer??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's no doubt bigger tiles are a bigger problem, the floor needs to
be ever more rigid.

[harry]

On May 21, 2:11�am, KOS wrote:
On May 20, 7:31�pm, "
wrote:





KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! �why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.

If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would expect
the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like a
trampoline. �I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too little
water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint betw. tile.
Was there adhesive up between the tile? �Grout crumbling and coming out?
� A better description, or photos, might help. �What repairs did the
tileman make? �Remove all and regrout? �Do you have a contract that
specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288

I dont have any photos to provide.. More info... The bathroom was a
total demo job.. New floor... We used Travertine tile... The problem
area is on the bathroom floor, not shower stall.... This are the big
travertine tiles... He used Macpei unsanded grout, b/c of the small
joints... I noticed some areas, not all, that were like, "cracked"-
the grout that is... 2 years after the job.. He chopped it out and
layed new grout...Sound like poor installation? He says that since its
2 years old that can happen to grout- stupid answer??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's no doubt igger tiles are a bigger problem, the floor needs to
be ever more rigid. I have stuck tiles down with fixing foam in the
past to get round this. You need to weight them down with cement
blocks or similar until the stuff goes off.

[[email protected][_2_]]

dadiOH wrote:
KOS wrote:
On May 20, 7:31 pm, "
wrote:
KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.
If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would
expect the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like
a trampoline. I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too
little water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint
betw. tile. Was there adhesive up between the tile? Grout crumbling
and coming out? A better description, or photos, might help. What
repairs did the tileman make? Remove all and regrout? Do you have a
contract that specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288
I dont have any photos to provide.. More info... The bathroom was a
total demo job.. New floor... We used Travertine tile... The problem
area is on the bathroom floor, not shower stall.... This are the big
travertine tiles... He used Macpei unsanded grout, b/c of the small
joints... I noticed some areas, not all, that were like, "cracked"-
the grout that is... 2 years after the job.. He chopped it out and
layed new grout...Sound like poor installation? He says that since its
2 years old that can happen to grout- stupid answer??

Consider...

Grout is used to fill spaces between things. It can be made from various
things including epoxy but is commonly colored cement.

Cement takes compressive loads OK but isn't all that strong for shear. It
becomes stronger when sand is added to it (sanded grout, mortar) and even
stronger wih crushed rock (concrete).

Your tile man used unsanded grout; properly so, since (presumably) you
wanted the tile layed 'tight" and the resultant joints were too small for
sanded grout.

The amount of water used to mix grout varies a lot depending on who is
mixing.

Once set, grout will last without cracking for decades, even millennia -
even if some joints aren't completely filled - as long as it isn't flexed.

"Flex" means *movement* and it doesn't have to be much. The movement can be
via the supporting floor or it can be from tiles that aren't well secured to
the floor.

The grout is cracking because of movement. Not because of grout that was
too wet/dry, not because of air in the grout, not because of some joints not
completely filled...movement.


You are probably right about movement, but sanded grout, AFAIK, isn't
used for fine grout lines (less than 1/8?).

[harry]

On May 21, 3:34�pm, "
wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
KOS wrote:
On May 20, 7:31 pm, "
wrote:
KOS wrote:
hi, i had a bathroom done 2 years ago, new floor with new tiles... I
had to get the tileman over to repair some grout that was coming
out... only 2 years later???!! why does this happen? I have older
bathrooms where the floor was done 20 years ago and grout is not
coming out.
If the problem was insufficient support below the tile, I would
expect the grout to crack here and there unless the floor moves like
a trampoline. I suspect it wasn't properly mixed - too much or too
little water. It may not have been properly packed into the joint
betw. tile. Was there adhesive up between the tile? Grout crumbling
and coming out? A better description, or photos, might help. What
repairs did the tileman make? Remove all and regrout? Do you have a
contract that specified materials used?

http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60288
I dont have any photos to provide.. More info... The bathroom was a
total demo job.. New floor... We used Travertine tile... The problem
area is on the bathroom floor, not shower stall.... This are the big
travertine tiles... He used Macpei unsanded grout, b/c of the small
joints... I noticed some areas, not all, that were like, "cracked"-
the grout that is... 2 years after the job.. He chopped it out and
layed new grout...Sound like poor installation? He says that since its
2 years old that can happen to grout- stupid answer??

Consider...

Grout is used to fill spaces between things. �It can be made from various
things including epoxy but is commonly colored cement.

Cement takes compressive loads OK but isn't all that strong for shear. �It
becomes stronger when sand is added to it (sanded grout, mortar) and even
stronger wih crushed rock (concrete).

Your tile man used unsanded grout; properly so, since (presumably) you
wanted the tile layed 'tight" and the resultant joints were too small for
sanded grout.

The amount of water used to mix grout varies a lot depending on who is
mixing.

Once set, grout will last without cracking for decades, even millennia �-
even if some joints aren't completely filled - as long as it isn't flexed.

"Flex" means *movement* and it doesn't have to be much. �The movement can be
via the supporting floor or it can be from tiles that aren't well secured to
the floor.

The grout is cracking because of movement. �Not because of grout that was
too wet/dry, not because of air in the grout, not because of some joints not
completely filled...movement.

You are probably right about movement, but sanded grout, AFAIK, isn't
used for fine grout lines (less than 1/8?).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm amazed you still use the stuff. No-0nes used that in the UK since
Adam was a lad. I'm not surprised you have trouble.

[[email protected][_2_]]

clipped
the floor.
The grout is cracking because of movement. �Not because of grout that was
too wet/dry, not because of air in the grout, not because of some joints not
completely filled...movement.
You are probably right about movement, but sanded grout, AFAIK, isn't
used for fine grout lines (less than 1/8?).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm amazed you still use the stuff. No-0nes used that in the UK since
Adam was a lad. I'm not surprised you have trouble.

The OP said the grout was unsanded and that the grout was "coming out".
My logic tells me that a little flex in the floor will cause the grout
and/or the marble tile to crack. No mention of "cracking", per se. To
"come out" means, to me, that it was not mixed properly or was not put
in thickly enough to fill the grout space. Dunno )

OP said the grout was "macpei" but there is no such - found "Mapei",
with a link to a datasheet for unsanded grout, but clicking on the link
for the English version gives me the French version. Flaky!


http://www.mapei.ca/en/index.htm

[jamesgangnc[_3_]]

On May 21, 3:45*pm, "
wrote:
clipped

the floor.
The grout is cracking because of movement. Not because of grout that was
too wet/dry, not because of air in the grout, not because of some joints not
completely filled...movement.
You are probably right about movement, but sanded grout, AFAIK, isn't
used for fine grout lines (less than 1/8?).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm amazed you still use the stuff. No-0nes used that in the UK since
Adam was a lad. *I'm not surprised you have trouble.

The OP said the grout was unsanded and that the grout was "coming out".
* My logic tells me that a little flex in the floor will cause the grout
and/or the marble tile to crack. *No mention of "cracking", per se. *To
"come out" means, to me, that it was not mixed properly or was not put
in thickly enough to fill the grout space. *Dunno )

OP said the grout was "macpei" but there is no such - found "Mapei",
with a link to a datasheet for unsanded grout, but clicking on the link
for the English version gives me the French version. *Flaky!

http://www.mapei.ca/en/index.htm

I'm doubtful about it being a mix issue. The grout doesn't really add
very much in the way of strength to the floor. It just fills the gaps
between the tiles. For it to crack and come out of those gaps there
has to be some force acting on it. I can't see what that would be
besides flexing.

I had some spots in a kitchen that did that. It was sanded grout but
I don't think that matters. I doubled up the 2x10's in the crawl
under those areas and that solved it. Question is can you get under
this bath?