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At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 8th 10, 06:52 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 175
Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:54:20 -0500, Mysterious Traveler wrote:

As long as you are only trying to carbonate something and not
force an explosion, wouldn't only a few PSI be adequate?


Yes. My regulator is faulty. I thought it was the gauges but when I put a
second set of gauges on, I realized the regulator isn't working. It's
always at something over 150 psi.

It's not a big deal, as Coke confirmed by phone all their plastic 20oz to 2
liter PETE bottles are safety tested at the "industry standard" 150 psi and
some are even tested to 250 psi.

I've successfully carbonated, so far, water, grape juice, pinot noir wine,
lemonade, and orange juice. The attempt at carbonated milk and carbonated
yogurt weren't the most stellar of achievements though; neither was the
ice-cream carbonation nor the strawberry fruit carbonation.

But, I keep learning, e.g., here they actually test the burst pressure of a
2l coke bottle (and show a slo-mo video with the pressure counter in the
corner):
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm
- Maximum Operating Pressure is called MOP (which is what you do when you
reach it)
- Test 1: 2 liter coke bottle burst at 190 psi (the bottle actually
stretches lengthwise in the slow motion video)
- Test 2: 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 185 psi (in slow motion you see
the cones on the bottom stretch out to almost cylindrical before bursting)
- Test 3: 1.5 liter coke bottle burst at 175 psi (always the bottom or
sides give out before the cap does)
- Test 4: 1.25 liter coke bottle with duct tape burst at 195 psi (for the
first time, the cap sprunk a leak but the failure mode was the package)

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...tle-62325.html
- A soda can is able to withstand over 100 PSI
- A 6.5-ounce glass soda bottle can withstand 225 PSI
- A 16-ounce glass soda bottle can withstand 175 PSI
- A PET soda bottle can withstand 150 PSI--the industry standard



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  #32  
Old April 8th 10, 07:12 AM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science,rec.crafts.brewing
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Posts: 175
Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:48:15 +0000 (UTC), Don Klipstein wrote:

show soda bottles being blown up by an air compressor
and apparently also by a bike pump.


Interestingly, the only time the cap failed was when they heat treated the
coke bottle beforehand, as shown in in these tests:
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm

Interestingly, in general, the larger the bottle, the lower the burst
pressure.

For example, while the standard 2 liter coke bottle with label burst at 168
psi, the standard 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 185 psi.

Also interesting was the more gas (less liquid), the higher the burst
pressure; for example, that same 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 190 psi
when it contained significant air.

In their last reported test, a 2 liter PET bottle failed at a lower psi
than you'd expect (150 psi) after simulated use (held at 130 psi for 3
minutes). This test might indicate plastique fatigue occurs with repeated
high pressurization.

So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi seems
reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE bottles.

BTW, those numbers are all way higher than the "guesstimates" made he
http://www.instructables.com/answers...bottle2l_hold/
  #33  
Old April 8th 10, 08:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science,rec.crafts.brewing
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Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 06:12:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi seems
reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE bottles.


Despite both Coke's statements and independent tests showing coke bottles
exploding well almost at 200 psi, the mythbusters seem to intimate they
explode at the much lower 150 psi pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBus...2005_season%29

So, I'm confused.
  #34  
Old April 8th 10, 08:53 AM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science,rec.crafts.brewing
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Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:25:50 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

If you are pressure testing bottles, on NO account use air or gas, the
bottle will explode violently at some point.


This reference backs up the observation that the smaller bottles rupture at
higher pressures ...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9125950AAdiFbU

5 atmospheres is about 73.5 psi. I know that 16 ounce plastic coke bottles
are rated up to 175psi(11.9 atm). 2L bottles hold somewhat less. A coke can
holds about 100 psi(6.8atm). I don't know the rating of champagne bottles
but that the thick glass can withstand a marginally greater pressure than
the thin plastic. However the plastic will begin to stretch (audiblly) as
it nears failure and the glass will just shatter and send shards
scattering. I prefer the plastic.
Source(s):
The Coca Cola people told me... and I've also test popped a few first hand
as a demonstration as to ability of expanding gas to do work using liquid
nitrogen source in the capped bottles.

The coca cola contact is :
Gina M. L'Heureux
The Coca-Cola Company
Industry and Consumer Affairs

This answer, way too conservative, at least shows a mathematical process:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4051635AAoQDT9

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
You would have to do a bit of research: You need to know the dimensions of
the bottle: Diameter and wall thickness.

You need to know the plastic it is made from and the corresponding tensile
strength (yield) of the material. Then you can update these calculations:

Assuming that the diameter of the bottle D=5 inches, wall thickness t =
0.025 inches, and the plastic has a yield strength of 5000 psi:

The hoop stress in the wall of the bottle = PD/2t
The longitudinal stress in the wall = PD/4t

For this pressure vessel situation, those 2 stresses are orthogonal and and
the principal stresses s1 and s2, the von mises failure theory suggests
that the stress levels are acceptable if: sqrt(s1^2 - s1*s2 +s2^2) yield,
so:

sqrt((PD/4t)^2 - (PD/4t)*(PD/2t) + (PD/2t)^2) 5000

expanding and collecting the LHS =

0.433 P D / t 5000

Filling in the example numbers, P 57.7 psi

And ofcourse with anything safety related, a safety factor should be
applied in proportion to the risk severity. In this case an exploding
bottle probably would not cause death, but could cause serious injury - A
safety factor of 5 is likely appropriate... thus, assuming the example
numbers are about right, you should not pressurize to more than 57.7/5 =
11.5 psi (this is delta compared to 1 ATM)

But, of course, these guys are the most reliable I can find:
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm
  #35  
Old April 8th 10, 01:47 PM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science,rec.crafts.brewing
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Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

When the kiddies were into bottle rockets (water and air type, not the
pyrotechnic type) they were running 2 liters up to 160 psi regularly.
After a few trips it made a Very Loud Noise. But until then it held, and
the landings probably didn't aid structural integrity any (dents,
creases, scratches.) Then again, it may have been simple fatigue.

Your home carbonation system can benefit from the science that aids the
engineering of commercial carbonation systems - chill the liquid - it
dissolves gas better at lower pressures. Since you can keep the
pressures lower, so you are not stressing things as much. Wasting
product on the floor is messy and irritating, not to mention loud and
attractive to ants, etc.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
  #36  
Old April 9th 10, 01:10 PM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science,rec.crafts.brewing
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Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

Elmo wrote in
:

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 06:12:08 +0000 (UTC), Elmo wrote:

So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi
seems reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE
bottles.


Despite both Coke's statements and independent tests showing coke
bottles exploding well almost at 200 psi, the mythbusters seem to
intimate they explode at the much lower 150 psi pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBus...2005_season%29

So, I'm confused.




Explosion occurs at 150psi.

I think your confusion comes from some poor wording at that Wiki site.

This quote:
"The Build Team also found that water cooler jugs, while able to launch
higher at the standard air/water ratio for water bottle rockets, were
weaker than standard soda bottles (which are designed to hold carbonated
liquids), failing at around 60 psi (413 kPa) less than the soda bottles
(90psi (600kPa) as opposed to 150psi (1000kPa))."

might read more clearly as:
"The Build Team also found that water cooler jugs were able to launch
higher at the standard air/water ratio for water bottle rockets. However,
the jugs were weaker than standard soda bottles, failing at around 90 psi
(600 kPa), much less than the soda bottles, which fail at 150psi
(1000kPa)."

The intermixing of English and Metric also adds to the confusion of the
Wiki page's wording.




--
Tegger

  #37  
Old April 9th 10, 01:45 PM posted to alt.home.repair
dgk
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Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Elmo
wrote:

Anyone know at what PSI a typical plastic soda bottle explodes?

I've built a home carbonation system. The gauges say I've put in 150PSI of
C02 into the Trader Joe's (admittedly thick) carbonated water bottles.

Nothing happened (with respect to explosions).

Yet, as I dig on the web, I find that plastic soda bottles are supposed to
explode at 120 to 150psi.
http://community.nbtsc.org/wiki/HomeMadeSoda

Obviously I need more data.

Do you have data points showing when soda bottles explode?

PS: If there's a soda or carbon dioxide related newsgroup for home
carbonation, please let me know.



Particularly on topic for me because I have an Air Horn on my bicycle:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Airzound.../dp/B000ACAMJC

It uses what appears to be a slightly thicker version of a soda
bottle. It is a very effective horn, in fact, a bit too loud. It
sounds like a Hemi on helium but does get through those jogger's
headphones.

Anyway, the bottle is usually fastened right below the crossbar, which
is right below my, well, nuts. We're told to fill it to 100 psi. If
there is one thing I don't want, it's that bottle exploding down
there.

Note the cost of this item. The price "reduction" drops it below the
free shipping ($25) level so it ends up costing more. Excuse me but
I'll just pay full price and get it shipped for free.
  #38  
Old April 9th 10, 02:01 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,442
Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2carbonation)

On Apr 9, 10:45*am, dgk wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:34:49 +0000 (UTC), Elmo





wrote:
Anyone know at what PSI a typical plastic soda bottle explodes?


I've built a home carbonation system. The gauges say I've put in 150PSI of
C02 into the Trader Joe's (admittedly thick) carbonated water bottles.


Nothing happened (with respect to explosions).


Yet, as I dig on the web, I find that plastic soda bottles are supposed to
explode at 120 to 150psi.
http://community.nbtsc.org/wiki/HomeMadeSoda


Obviously I need more data.


Do you have data points showing when soda bottles explode?


PS: If there's a soda or carbon dioxide related newsgroup for home
carbonation, please let me know.


Particularly on topic for me because I have an Air Horn on my bicycle:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Airzound.../dp/B000ACAMJC

It uses what appears to be a slightly thicker version of a soda
bottle. It is a very effective horn, in fact, a bit too loud. It
sounds like a Hemi on helium but does get through those jogger's
headphones.

Anyway, the bottle is usually fastened right below the crossbar, which
is right below my, well, nuts. We're told to fill it to 100 psi. If
there is one thing I don't want, it's that bottle exploding down
there.

Note the cost of this item. The price "reduction" drops it below the
free shipping ($25) level so it ends up costing more. Excuse me but
I'll just pay full price and get it shipped for free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Considering all the above .................. were these tests
conducted on brand new (previously unusd) or 'used' ad emptied
bottles?

Used bottles having been previously stressed by the 'normal' pressure
of soft drinks.
  #39  
Old April 9th 10, 04:34 PM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science
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Posts: 43
Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 00:52:17 +0000 (UTC), Don Klipstein wrote:

That does sound to me large for a tire, maybe about right for a tire for
a large SUV. Also, most car and SUV tires are not inflated past 36 PSI.
50 liters at 36 PSI, if compressed to 150 PSI, takes up 12 liters.


What volume of gas is contained in an automotive ti
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...5256.Ch.r.html

Those guys came up with 10 liters at 30psi, given:
* Inside diameter of rubber tire 15" = ~40 cm = 4 dm
* Outside diameter of rubber tire 21" = ~50 cm = 5 dm
* Width of steel wheel 6" = ~15 cm = 1.5 dm
* Pressure inside the rubber tire 30 psi
* Temperature 25 C

The volume inside the tire is the volume difference between two cylinders,
one representing the entire wheel/tire assembly and the other representing
just the wheel.

The volume of a cylinder is V = p diameter height where diameter is
twice the radius.

Note: For your particular tire and wheel assembly, you can use the Tire
Diameter and Circumference Calculator at:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tiresizescalc.html

They used the numbers below:

For just the steel wheel, the volume p (4 dm 2)2 1.5 dm = 19 cubic
decimeters (i.e., 19 liters).

For just the rubber tire assembly, the total volume p (5 dm 2)2 1.5
dm = 29 cubic decimeters (i.e., 29 liters).

The volume difference is just 10 liters (which means that the air in the
tire will mass about 26 grams).

Another volume calculation is he
http://www.irday.com/html/Automotive...0413/9827.html
Those guys came up with 30 liters for an average truck tire.

This volume calculation puts a car tire at 1 to 2 cubic feet of air:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/ar104.htm

BTW, what happens to the mass if we use a different gas than air, like
carbon dioxide?
  #40  
Old April 9th 10, 04:36 PM posted to alt.home.repair,misc.education.science
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Posts: 20
Default At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 08:34:56 -0700, LM wrote:

Note: For your particular tire and wheel assembly, you can use the Tire
Diameter and Circumference Calculator at:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tiresizescalc.html


This tire volume calculator works better:
http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syn...calculator.htm
 




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