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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

On Oct 3, 8:27*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. *It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. *My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. *I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? *I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. *I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. *BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. *The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. *FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. *Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Cheaper than $300 but still kinda expensive

http://www.independentliving.com/pro...p?number=SC509

cheers
Bob
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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

On Oct 3, 10:27*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. *It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. *My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. *I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? *I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. *I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. *BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. *The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. *FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. *Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address
this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign.
We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they
seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint.
On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of having a
raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat frequency that
would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible?

Joe
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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.



The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all and
I'm sure the builder didn't pay more then a small amount for them.
They make a loud buzzing sound, sort of like the emergency broadcast
sound you probably have heard on your TV and radio.
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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

Ashton Crusher wrote:
....

The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all ...


Maybe you could ferret out the manufacturer for OP????

--


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend,

a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency

sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!


Can you not find an optical alarm, that indicates by blinking
a strobe light on/off slowly (at whatever frequency is likeliest
to catch the attention of deaf people)?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

I have the same problem with my amplified phone. It's a
trimline, the volume control on the handset. The ringer is
some high pitched chirp that I can't hear with my hearing
aids out. I put a splitter, and an old mechanical Ma Bell
phone, which I can hear sometimes.

I know of no low pitch smoke alarm, though that's much
needed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the
smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the
noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from
profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!



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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

I'm all for it. Joe for congress!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Joe" wrote in message
...

Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to
address
this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a
campaign.
We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us,
but they
seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy
paint.
On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of
having a
raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat
frequency that
would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible?

Joe


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend,
a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency
sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high
frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke
if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've
found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could
hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher
can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a
tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on
some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create
any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing
aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children not
waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and showed
several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their rooms. They
showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the child's mom yelling for
them to get up and get out of the house and kids seemed to hear and respond
to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke detectors':

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar

You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'.

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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

Mark wrote:

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm
went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My
friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency
sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high
frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense
smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've
found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO
detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss
could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher
can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses
a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on
some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to
create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a
hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children
not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and
showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their
rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the
child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids
seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke
detectors':

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar

You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'.


I have slept through smoke alarm when it awoke everyone else in the
house. That alarm used to sound the first time or two that the furnace
came on in the fall - accumulated dust burning? No smoke detectable to us.

When my kids were young teens, they used to have their radio on very
softly at night, tuned to pop music station. There was a very popular
song at the time that had a background sound that sounded like "maaaaa";
I normally could barely tell the radio was on in their room, but I would
wake at night when that song played. My subconcious thought my children
were calling me )


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

Mark wrote:

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm
went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My
friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency
sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high
frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense
smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've
found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO
detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss
could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher
can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses
a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on
some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to
create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a
hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children
not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and
showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their
rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the
child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids
seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke
detectors':

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar

You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'.


If you have hardwired 120VAC "tandem" smokes (the kind where if one goes
off they all make noise) as are required in new houses, you can get one
with relay contacts and the relay will follow the sounder (that is, the
contacts will change state when any of the detectors is in alarm, not
just the one with the contacts) then you can do any kind of homebrew
sounder you want. Also there are versions available with 177cd strobe
lights, these are usually used in ADA hotel rooms and sleeping areas of
apartments for the hard of hearing. Gentex is probably the best known
mfgr of these.

If someone is hard of hearing and has a house with hardwired 120VAC
smokes, I would highly recommend looking into replacing the smokes with
the ones with ADA strobes. Off the top of my head I think the current
Gentex model is 7309, but there's different versions with and without
relay contacts and for wall and ceiling mount. Not cheap, but if you've
already demonstrated that the existing detectors aren't notifying the
occupant...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:41:49 -0400, "
wrote:



Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children
not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and
showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their
rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the
child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and kids
seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking smoke
detectors':


OT but my mother was a widow and took comfort that her sons lived at
home, me in highschool and my brother in medical school. She was more
worried about getting sick than about intruders.

It was expected to stay out late, 2 or 3 for the hs graduation dance.
I came home about them and found my mother asleep so I went to sleep
too. She woke up and called my name, for a while iirc, and neither I
nor my brother heard anything. We just kept sleeping. I think the
same thing happened another night. So much for the security she had
thought we gave her. (Tben I went off to college in another city and
my borther went off to an internship.)


http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar

You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'.


I have slept through smoke alarm when it awoke everyone else in the
house. That alarm used to sound the first time or two that the furnace
came on in the fall - accumulated dust burning? No smoke detectable to us.

When my kids were young teens, they used to have their radio on very
softly at night, tuned to pop music station. There was a very popular
song at the time that had a background sound that sounded like "maaaaa";
I normally could barely tell the radio was on in their room, but I would
wake at night when that song played. My subconcious thought my children
were calling me )


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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

Nate Nagel wrote:
Mark wrote:

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm
went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My
friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency
sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high
frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense
smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose
sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've
found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of
elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO
detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss
could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's
got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher
can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses
a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based
on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to
create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a
hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


Our local tv station did a story a few years ago about small children
not waking to the loud hi-pitched alarms. They even did a test and
showed several small kids sleeping right thru an alarm right in their
rooms. They showed one that actually had a recorded voice of the
child's mom yelling for them to get up and get out of the house and
kids seemed to hear and respond to that. Here's a story on 'talking
smoke detectors':

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ara_talkingsmokealar

You can get more with a Google on 'talking smoke detectors'.


If you have hardwired 120VAC "tandem" smokes (the kind where if one goes
off they all make noise) as are required in new houses, you can get one
with relay contacts and the relay will follow the sounder (that is, the
contacts will change state when any of the detectors is in alarm, not
just the one with the contacts) then you can do any kind of homebrew
sounder you want. Also there are versions available with 177cd strobe
lights, these are usually used in ADA hotel rooms and sleeping areas of
apartments for the hard of hearing. Gentex is probably the best known
mfgr of these.

If someone is hard of hearing and has a house with hardwired 120VAC
smokes, I would highly recommend looking into replacing the smokes with
the ones with ADA strobes. Off the top of my head I think the current
Gentex model is 7309, but there's different versions with and without
relay contacts and for wall and ceiling mount. Not cheap, but if you've
already demonstrated that the existing detectors aren't notifying the
occupant...

nate


sorry, I was thinking of 7139 (the old part number was 7109 and it had a
steady horn sound, the new one does a temporal Code-3 pattern)

http://www.gentex.com/fire_photo_pd4.html

http://www.gentex.com/pdf/data_sheet...Layout%201.pdf

7139CS-(W or C) is what you'd want. W or C denotes wall or ceiling
mount (the light pattern of the strobe is different between the two.)
They include an on-board 9V battery backup for functionality during an
AC power failure.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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Default Smoke detectors for the elderly

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,


They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones,
and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years,
but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave,
but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is
440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.)

It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch.

especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency


Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to
use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a
tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The
bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right?

I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke
detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the
other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which?

sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.


If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of
sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to
use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago,
every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a
few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it
seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker.

Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there
don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on
data sheet for specs.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.


P&M, because you're being nice to an old person.

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mm wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,


They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones,
and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years,
but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave,
but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is
440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.)

It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch.

especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency


Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to
use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a
tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The
bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right?

I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke
detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the
other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which?

sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.


If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of
sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to
use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago,
every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a
few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it
seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker.

Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there
don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on
data sheet for specs.
Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.


P&M, because you're being nice to an old person.


there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization
are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its
radioactivity it's toast. Photoelectric uses a LED and a photocell to
measure obscuration. But that said most mfgrs. of smoke detectors will
recommend replacement after 10 years or even less no matter what
technology it uses. That's not saying that it won't work, but they're
not willing to go on record saying that they will.

nate

(has very old smoke detectors in his house, and should know better. Do
as I say, not as I do.)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


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Robert Green wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


One good answer is an alarm panel with the output connected to a
siren/voice speaker driver. Our system has a piercing siren sound then
says *FIRE*, *FIRE*, *FIRE*---LEAVE IMMEDIATELY in a commanding male
voice, then a lower frequency staccato siren sound then repeats. There
is enough noise to get most anyones attention.

It uses all standard off the shelf stuff.

The other advantage is that the smoke alarms are powered from the panel
which provides supervision and also power during an AC power outage.
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Nate Nagel wrote:
mm wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 11:27:35 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm
went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My
friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency
sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,


They do? I have an AC smoke alarm and I've had a couple battery ones,
and they seem to be mid-range. (I've played the piano for 50 years,
but still have little idea what note they are, or even what octave,
but they still seem midrange. I'll guess, middle C. The nearby A is
440, so C must be 500 to 550 cps.)

It sounds like a metallic kazoo, or a trombone at its mid-pitch.

especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high
frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency


Have they switched to little, high frequency sonalerts. They used to
use ones as big as demitasse coffe cup. Bigger than that. More like a
tea cup at a Chinese restaurant. They don't use that anymore? The
bigger they are, the lower the pitch, right?

I would say to look for old ones, but one of the two styles of smoke
detector doesn't work well after it is old, they say. Doesn't the
other kind still work well when it is old? Which is which?

sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense
smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.


If you look at mouser.com I believe they sell a wide range of
sonalerts and may give frequencies and probalby give specs. Best to
use a high-speed connection becauase last I looked two years ago,
every search dl's a pdf rep of the page in the catalog. So it takes a
few seconds even with lo-speed dsl. But if they sell something, it
seems they have every model of it, by more than one maker.
Well, they don't seem to use pdf anymore, and it loads much quicker
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine....yword=sonalert but there
don't seem to be pictures on this page, plus you will have to click on
data sheet for specs.
Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose
sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've
found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.


P&M, because you're being nice to an old person.


there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization
are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its
radioactivity it's toast.


Am241 has a half life of 458 years so that really isn't much of an issue .

Photoelectric uses a LED and a photocell to
measure obscuration. But that said most mfgrs. of smoke detectors will
recommend replacement after 10 years or even less no matter what
technology it uses. That's not saying that it won't work, but they're
not willing to go on record saying that they will.

nate

(has very old smoke detectors in his house, and should know better. Do
as I say, not as I do.)

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Robert Green wrote:

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.



There are two smoke alarms out there that allow the user to record an
alert that sounds when the alarm goes off. Usually, it's a voice
alert, to awaken children to the sound of their parent's voice. But
there'd be nothing stopping you from recording a lower-frequency tone
to use as an alarm sound. Look on the internet for a sound your friend
can hear, and that sounds alarming enough to awaken him, and record
that.

SignalONE Voice Safety Alarm
http://www.safemart.com/Fire-Safety/...arm-012504.htm

KidSmart Vocal Smoke Detector
http://www.amazon.com/Kidsmart-10012.../dp/B0018SANVY
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On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:02:08 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization
are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its
radioactivity it's toast.


Could we make nuclear bombs out of americum? That way the
radioactivity woudln't last that long. And it might be good publicity
for our hemisphere.
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mm wrote:
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:02:08 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization
are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its
radioactivity it's toast.


Could we make nuclear bombs out of americum? That way the
radioactivity woudln't last that long. And it might be good publicity
for our hemisphere.


Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in his mom's shed
using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't DAGS but I'm
pretty sure that he was.

nate

(my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


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On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:31:05 -0400, George
wrote:


there's two kinds of smokes, ionization and photoelectric. Ionization
are the ones that use a small pellet of americium and once it loses its
radioactivity it's toast.


Am241 has a half life of 458 years so that really isn't much of an issue .


Please ignore my previous post, which you will probably see after this
one.

It looks like my bomb designing career is dead before it began.

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On Oct 3, 6:57*pm, "Robert L Bass"
wrote:
"G. Morgan" wrote:

Maybe someone in ASA can get you a deal on some units.


In my previous home there were 110V smokes in each room they were
interconnected and with 9V backup. *They had very low-pitch buzzers -- *
definitely not piezos. *I don't recall the make or model and I suspect they
were pretty old. *I replaced them with System Sensor detectors.

You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from "LoudnLow" -- *
a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims. *There's
a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the high-pitch
noise from conventional smokes. *It's called Telex. *Their product is also
pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. *I can't speak for the quality of
their product as I haven't tried one. *Here's a link:

http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp

Hope that helps.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass


I wouldn't call $159 per unit "gouging" for such a specialized product

https://darro001.secure.omnis.com/products.php

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http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it
on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:

Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in
his mom's shed
using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't
DAGS but I'm
pretty sure that he was.

nate

(my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


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"fftt" wrote in message
...
On Oct 3, 8:27 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency

sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!


stuff snipped

Cheaper than $300 but still kinda expensive

http://www.independentliving.com/pro...p?number=SC509

cheers
Bob

Thanks, Bob. I just don't understand why using a lower-frequency sounder
adds so darn much to the cost! There HAS to be a cheaper solution and I'm
going out to Sprawl-Mart and some other stores to see what I can find. This
is one case where on-site shopping might very well beat out on-line
shopping.

--
Bobby G.


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"Joe" wrote in message
...

Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address
this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign.

I've come to believe that only laws that help businesses who bring buckets
of cash to campaigns get passed. )-: Congress critters on both sides of
the aisle are equally guilty and it will only get worse until we ban
campaign contributions. Who in this world gives money to someone without
expecting something in return? Yet Congress wants us to believe they are
above all that. Edwards has been paying his mistress with left-over
campaign funds. Ensign has been trying to bribe the husband of the woman
he's having an affair with and more than a few are in jail, or heading there
soon. Trust them to fix the smoke alarm problem? I wouldn't trust any of
them with even a burned-out match.

We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they
seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint.

The key word is "supposedly" - a lot of people bought into the idea that any
regulation was bad regulation along with the fairytale that you can lower
taxes but still run government effectively. Now, as a result, there's very
little pre-emptive enforcement. It's only when the dead children and pets
start to stack up that regulators seem to notice anything's amiss.

On the technical side, what do you audio experts think of having a
raunchy sounding dual tone that would generate a beat frequency that
would be even more (maybe disagreeably) audible?

As I read up on this subject, research indicates that flashing lights are
nearly useless in rousing someone from sleep. High frequency sounders are
almost as bad. Kids and adults are apparently able to sleep through both.
The lower square wave of 520Hz seems to be the best at waking people, as far
as tones are concerned. Even better is to have a "bed shaker" connected to
the alarm output.

The problem I face here is resistance. My friend says he's quite happy with
not being able to hear the alarm, but I suspect because he's infirm and
usually in a lot of pain, that he's feeling a little suicidal. I know he
won't spring for a complicated security system. He already got sold an
expensive system from the people that wander door-to-door selling such
things (I know, I know. I already chastized him greatly for that.!) He's
not likely to buy another one (he doesn't even use this one because the
vendor went under. So my best hope of getting him protection is to make it
cheap and easy to install.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.




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"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message

stuff snipped

The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all and
I'm sure the builder didn't pay more then a small amount for them.
They make a loud buzzing sound, sort of like the emergency broadcast
sound you probably have heard on your TV and radio.


Would you mind telling me (if you can reach them) what make and model they
are? Are they hardwired 110VAC or battery powered? Thanks!

--
Bobby G.


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"dpb" wrote in message
...
Ashton Crusher wrote:
...

The wired smoke detectors in my house are not high pitched at all ...


Maybe you could ferret out the manufacturer for OP????


What he said! (-:

--
Bobby G.


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"G. Morgan" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Robert,

That issue has been addressed by the NFPA. See he
http://www.hearinglossweb.com/tech/alrt/smoke/code.htm


Thanks. I knew the problem was bad, but apparently as many as 70 million
Americans having high-frequency hearing loss, according to that site.
That's a pretty big chunk of people to leave out of the design process.
Maybe there was a patent issue involved.

I never thought about the problem until I was standing next to someone who
couldn't hear a peep of what I thought was ear-drum damaging loud, but then
again, I don't design smoke detectors. I'm glad that after 20 or 30 years
worth of sales, something's finally being done to address the problem as
indicated by the URL you posted.

I'd still like to find 3 or 4 battery powered smokes or combo smoke/CO's
that don't need hardwiring and don't cost more than $50 each. Hopefully
someone can tell me for sure which brands make that lower frequency
squarewave 520Hz sound that's being mandated.

It sounds like I need to keep my fingers crossed until the new models come
out and hope that he doesn't burn himself up before then . . . naw . . .
couldn't live with myself if something bad happened in the mean time. I'll
keep looking. At least I have a new search term: 520Hz. I expect that to
help a lot in finding what I am looking for. Thanks again for the URL.
(time passes) - not as helpful as I thought. It seems only two alarm makers
have such units, and they're way overpriced compared to traditional battery
detectors. And I mean waaaaay over. I can get 10 normal alarms for the
price of one of the specialized low frequency units. If there's anything I
hate, it's gouging the sick and disabled. This is a perfect example. Smoke
detectors, as the new rules make clear, should be able to wake most people
up, not just one demographic.

--
Bobby G.


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Stormin Mormon wrote:
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it
on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition.


As a NucE, I found the reports on that incident less than
satisfying--absolutely no indications of what levels were actually found
or actual numeric quantities of any of the materials to the point of
determining at all what level of hazard might have been.

At the time I looked for any NRC Region incident reports and found none;
my general conclusion is locals got carried away w/ chance to use their
gear and run some training exercises as much (or perhaps even more) as
it was a real problem...

The "several times background" kinds of numbers sound ominous but in
reality, given what background levels typically are and that Am is an
alpha-emitter so it's radius of being a problem even in open air is on
the order of a few cm at most the hazard is localized at most. There
was simply not enough other hard data to estimate what level of
activations he could possibly have achieved but imo highly unlikely to
have been much at all although theoretically possible some could have
occurred. The Be actually was probably the most personally hazardous
material as it is quite toxic in low quantities (not radioactive,
poisonous-style toxic).

As for the kid's counter showing contamination around the neighborhood,
I'd say the odds were/are very high he was simply carrying it around
with him unwittingly on clothing, shoes, hands, etc., and measuring it
rather than a direct line-of-sight measurement from the backyard area.
Or, of course, given the stuff he did w/o adequate respirators, etc.,
there's also a good chance he had ingested/inhaled enough that it was an
internal body loading he was measuring.

--
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"Robert L Bass" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from

"LoudnLow" --
a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims.

There's
a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the

high-pitch
noise from conventional smokes. It's called Telex. Their product is also
pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. I can't speak for the quality

of
their product as I haven't tried one. Here's a link:

http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp


Thanks for the link but I need to find something less pricey. I just CAN
NOT believe that with all the smoke detectors out there, that there isn't
anything except multi-hundred dollar units that can make a sound that
hard-of-hearing people can hear. I'd like to do this for $120 max. The
larger issue is the millions of older Americans on tight budgets who can
hardly afford to eat. They're definitely NOT going to spend $1000's or even
$100's on fancy smoke detectors, nor should they.

Thanks for your input. I'm betting that if I had to go that route, I could
get out some copper-clad perf board and my soldering iron and build
something very similar to what you are describing for a lot less. But
still, I shouldn't have to. Fortunately, the industry seems to have finally
realized the problem and are taking steps to correct it. I just hope my
friend doesn't turn himself into a crispy critter before then. He likes to
sit in his armchair, smoking a pipe and he tends to doze off a lot.

--
Bobby G.




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Joe wrote:

Seems to me someone in our dysfunctional Congress needs to address
this issue. Or maybe Consumer Reports or AARP could launch a campaign.
We supposedly have Consumer Product Safety working for us, but they
seem to be asleep except for traces of lead in Chinese toy paint.


Yeah, for every perceived or possible problem, there's got to be a
government solution. If not, the government will study the need and solve
some other problem.


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Robert Green wrote:
"Robert L Bass" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

You've probably seen the outrageously overpriced detectors from

"LoudnLow" --
a company that makes it's money by gouging hearing deficient victims.

There's
a company that makes a low-frequency sounder which responds to the

high-pitch
noise from conventional smokes. It's called Telex. Their product is also
pricey but at least you won't be out $1200. I can't speak for the quality

of
their product as I haven't tried one. Here's a link:

http://www.teltex.com/Home.asp


Thanks for the link but I need to find something less pricey. I just CAN
NOT believe that with all the smoke detectors out there, that there isn't
anything except multi-hundred dollar units that can make a sound that
hard-of-hearing people can hear. I'd like to do this for $120 max. The
larger issue is the millions of older Americans on tight budgets who can
hardly afford to eat. They're definitely NOT going to spend $1000's or even
$100's on fancy smoke detectors, nor should they.

Thanks for your input. I'm betting that if I had to go that route, I could
get out some copper-clad perf board and my soldering iron and build
something very similar to what you are describing for a lot less. But
still, I shouldn't have to. Fortunately, the industry seems to have finally
realized the problem and are taking steps to correct it. I just hope my
friend doesn't turn himself into a crispy critter before then. He likes to
sit in his armchair, smoking a pipe and he tends to doze off a lot.

--
Bobby G.



There's a lot of liability when it comes to fire safety. "Good" and
"cheap" do sometimes occur together, but less often than not.

There are plug-in Gentex models with strobes as well, I know you are
focused on audible notification appliances, but visual appliances have
been the traditional solution for the hard of hearing. 177cd is pretty
freaking bright. However, those do run about $100 apiece retail, and
there's not much getting around that.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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Robert Green wrote:
I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My friend, a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!

I'm wondering why COTS alarms operate at such a high sound frequency,
especially when it's well known that older adults lose their high frequency
hearing first. I have been thinking of just unsoldering the Sonalert
sounders in low priced alarms and replacing them with lower frequency
sounders, but that could compromise the detector's ability to sense smoke if
the replacement sounder has sufficiently different electrical
characteristics.

Does anyone know of a *reasonably* priced smoke detector whose sounder is
audible to people with high frequency hearing loss? I'd like to buy a
couple of such detectors for him, but the price on the only unit I've found
would bring the bill to over $1200 for four detectors, and that's just
unreasonable. I know what goes into making a smoke detector and 10x the
cost of the parts still wouldn't bring the price that high.

The idea that smokes use sounders that can't be heard by a lot of elderly
people seems pretty unreasonable to me as well.

Surely someone out there makes a smoke detector or combo smoke/CO detector
(even better) that makes a sound people with typical hearing loss could hear
a little better.

BTW, we can skip flashing light smoke detectors. BT, DT, GTS! He's got a
phone ringer/flasher that he never hears or sees. The unit's flasher can't
really be seen in daytime easily and the electronic ringer again uses a tone
in the 5000Hz and above range and is inaudible to him. FWIW, based on some
simple tests I did with CoolEdit, a PC program that allows you to create any
audible tone, he can hear most stuff below 4000Hz. Yes he has a hearing aid
but no, he does not sleep with it in.

Thanks in advance for your help.

--
Bobby G.


I've followed some of this thread, and got curious and went googling for
"smoke alarm" and "low frequency" together. I found this site -
http://darrowproducts.com/index.html . I think their alarm was mentioned
elsewhere in the thread, but two points on their own site that might
help: one of the models is $159 with a $39 instant rebate and free
shipping. (Of course, they may have changed that and not updated the
page, who knows). That's the lowest price models; others are more.

The site also had another interesting angle - their section on veterans
says "Attention, U.S. Veterans, you may qualify to receive a Loudenlow™
Hearing Impaired smoke alarm for free via your local Veterans Affairs
office".

Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend!
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Copy to Arthur because it mentions a shed.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 10:19:59 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html
I reposted a story about that, a while back. Someone put it
on the web, too. Kid with a bunch of ambition.


If he does this when he's 15 or so, imagine what size reactor he'll
make when he's 30.

I was at hamfest last week and someone had had a centrifuge for sale.
It held six big testtubes.

--
Christopher A. Young

"Nate Nagel" wrote

Actually, wasn't the kid who made his own mini-reactor in
his mom's shed
using americium from discarded smoke detectors? I didn't
DAGS but I'm
pretty sure that he was.

nate

(my mind is a storehouse of useless factoids)


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"Lee B" wrote in message
...

I've followed some of this thread, and got curious and went googling for
"smoke alarm" and "low frequency" together. I found this site -
http://darrowproducts.com/index.html . I think their alarm was mentioned
elsewhere in the thread, but two points on their own site that might help:
one of the models is $159 with a $39 instant rebate and free shipping. (Of
course, they may have changed that and not updated the page, who knows).
That's the lowest price models; others are more.

The site also had another interesting angle - their section on veterans
says "Attention, U.S. Veterans, you may qualify to receive a Loudenlow™
Hearing Impaired smoke alarm for free via your local Veterans Affairs
office".

Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend!



Wow! I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about
a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same
concern!

This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap.

What is wrong with the major manufacturers,
the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two
to implement, you would think it would be offered.

Still have to read most of the thread.

Thanks all.

Josh




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"zzznot" wrote in message
...

Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend!


Wow! I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about
a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same
concern!

This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap.

What is wrong with the major manufacturers,
the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two
to implement, you would think it would be offered.

Still have to read most of the thread.

Thanks all.

Josh


To Josh and anyone else reading here, I wanted to say I found something that
fits my needs exactly after a few hours of searching the web and then my
local brick and mortar big box stores because I wanted to buy one today.
While I nearly got arrested at TarZhey for trying to listen to the alarms
before I bought them, a nearby competitor had what I needed:

http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24

Mark's suggestion to Google on "talking smoke detectors" lead to the above
URL, and although they had a lot of info, I couldn't tell what the sounder
sounded like. (You'd think they could post a small MP3 or WAV of the sound
or the voice on their website in this, the 21st century!)

I decided I wanted to try it because even if sounder was too high pitched,
the talking part might wake him. I also thought that it might be louder
since it used AA's and not 9V batteries. To my surprise, when I brought it
to his house and tested it out, the sounder was very much lower in tone than
his existing smokes and he could hear it with ease.

So, problem solved!!! I only bought the one, for a little over $40 with
tax, but it also includes a CO monitor so mentally, it fits what *I* think a
good smoke detector should cost: $20 each. I don't give it high marks for
intelligibility, though. When it goes off, it's the tone, a little silence,
and then a man mumbling in an urgent tone. "Warning . . . Warning . . . mo
.. . ected . . . in . . . ing . . . room." The alarm tells you which room
the alert is coming from and what the danger is (smoke or CO), which I think
is mostly a gimmick but may prove useful.

I am going to see if I can find a discount for the other two I need to
purchase to cover his house completely. I think he needs one in the garage,
the kitchen and the bedroom and maybe another one, but I feel incredibly
relieved that he's got at least one unit he can hear. It's also got another
issue I hope I can fix with a piece of black tape. It's got a feature that
allows silencing or testing via any household IR remote and the unit has
triggered twice accidentally as a result of a reflected IR beam. It's
mainly an issue of selecting the proper location, but that may be trickier
than it seems for some installations.

Thanks to everyone who chipped in! Nothing like actually accomplishing the
day's mission.

--
Bobby G.



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On Oct 4, 9:38*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"zzznot" wrote in message

...



Good luck. And good for you for watching out for your friend!


Wow! *I just finished sending off an email to Kidde about
a new smoke alarm I just installed for Mom, with the same
concern!


This Loudenlow looks pretty good, but not cheap.


What is wrong with the major manufacturers,
the low frequency signal might cost another dollar or two
to implement, you would think it would be offered.


Still have to read most of the thread.


Thanks all.


Josh


To Josh and anyone else reading here, I wanted to say I found something that
fits my needs exactly after a few hours of searching the web and then my
local brick and mortar big box stores because I wanted to buy one today.
While I nearly got arrested at TarZhey for trying to listen to the alarms
before I bought them, a nearby competitor had what I needed:

http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24

Mark's suggestion to Google on "talking smoke detectors" lead to the above
URL, and although they had a lot of info, I couldn't tell what the sounder
sounded like. (You'd think they could post a small MP3 or WAV of the sound
or the voice on their website in this, the 21st century!)

I decided I wanted to try it because even if sounder was too high pitched,
the talking part might wake him. *I also thought that it might be louder
since it used AA's and not 9V batteries. To my surprise, when I brought it
to his house and tested it out, the sounder was very much lower in tone than
his existing smokes and he could hear it with ease.

So, problem solved!!! *I only bought the one, for a little over $40 with
tax, but it also includes a CO monitor so mentally, it fits what *I* think a
good smoke detector should cost: *$20 each. *I don't give it high marks for
intelligibility, though. *When it goes off, it's the tone, a little silence,
and then a man mumbling in an urgent tone. *"Warning . . . Warning . . .. mo
. . *ected . . . in . . . ing . . . room." *The alarm tells you which room
the alert is coming from and what the danger is (smoke or CO), which I think
is mostly a gimmick but may prove useful.

I am going to see if I can find a discount for the other two I need to
purchase to cover his house completely. *I think he needs one in the garage,
the kitchen and the bedroom and maybe another one, but I feel incredibly
relieved that he's got at least one unit he can hear. *It's also got another
issue I hope I can fix with a piece of black tape. *It's got a feature that
allows silencing or testing via any household IR remote and the unit has
triggered twice accidentally as a result of a reflected IR beam. *It's
mainly an issue of selecting the proper location, but that may be trickier
than it seems for some installations.

Thanks to everyone who chipped in! *Nothing like actually accomplishing the
day's mission.

--
Bobby G.


I once helped a fellow firefighter rig up a home fire sprinkler system
for his father in law who the entire family was sure would immolate
himself by smoking a pipe in his favorite chair just prior to bed.
Since we did all of the work ourselves the whole sprinkler system cost
less then the final piece. That piece was a smoke detector that had a
plunger to break the glass bulb that held the sprinkler over that
chair closed. Twenty years on and his father in law had died of heart
failure in his sleep so who did that detector save. It saved the
alcoholic mother of the single mom with two children who had bought
the small bungalow were his step father had lived. It also saved the
home owner and her two children of course so I'd say that the work was
worth our time. Grandma was transported to the hospital for treatment
of smoke inhalation, a small burn to her hand, and a mild case of
hypothermia from the forty gallons a minute of cold water that had
flowed over her.

--
Tom Horne
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"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
http://www.firstalert.com/carbon_mon...tem.php?pid=24


Excellent!

Lowes' web site lists it, I'll see if the local store has it.

Can this be installed battery-only, or does it need 120v install?
I cannot tell from any online description I can find!

Thanks.

Josh



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"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in message
...

I was at an elderly friend's house the other day when the smoke alarm

went
off. It was quite loud and I reacted instantly to the noise. My

friend,
a
former Army marksman in his 70's, who's suffering from profound high
frequency hearing loss, heard nothing!!!

Then I started looking around for alarms that used lower frequency

sounders
but the only thing I could find were specially converted smoke detectors
that cost $300!!!!


Can you not find an optical alarm, that indicates by blinking
a strobe light on/off slowly (at whatever frequency is likeliest
to catch the attention of deaf people)?

--
Don Phillipson


I already bought him one of those for his phone, but he mostly doesn't see
it. After reading through some of the sites that readers suggested, it
seems he's not the only one who doesn't react to flashing lights. Some
figures suggest as few as 1/4 of the people using them reliably react to
light. Since posting my first question, I found an alarm that will suffice
that's got a low-frequency horn that sounds a little like a truck backing
up. Very audible.

--
Bobby G.


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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I have the same problem with my amplified phone. It's a
trimline, the volume control on the handset. The ringer is
some high pitched chirp that I can't hear with my hearing
aids out. I put a splitter, and an old mechanical Ma Bell
phone, which I can hear sometimes.


I gave him a flashing phone last Christmas and it's not very effective.
That's why I didn't want to go that route for a smoke detector. He has
plenty of hearing left, it's just all low frequency sounds. He's given up
on his hearing aid, too, because he can't stand the constant background din.
I've learned to make sure he can see my lips when I am talking because I
know he's doing a fair amount of lip reading. I do have some old Bell dial
phones around that I could give him because I believe he doesn't have a
good, solid mechanical phone that works through (frequent) blackouts. That
would kill two birds with one stone. Good idea, thanks!

--
Bobby G.


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