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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:18:35 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Boilers are typically left hot, so there isn't a bunch of
humidity in the boiler, rusting it out. And, boiler systems
often do take a LONG time to recover temp.


Yeah, but do you have one? His first answer assumed you did.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"mm" wrote in message
.. .

Boiler installers never put daily "set back" thermostats on
boilers,
only forced air systems get those, and they tell you to set
the
thermostat once and leave it there.


Why did you assume the Mormon had a boiler?

The rules are completely different for radiant heated
buidings vs air
heated buildings.


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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:56 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote:

On Oct 29, 8:51*pm, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 29, 11:05*am, RickH wrote:





On Oct 29, 10:36*am, "SteveB" wrote:


No, it takes too long to re-heat the boiler and all the water in the
pipes, radiators, and floor tubing. *It is always best to set it once
and leave it there all winter. *Too much energy is lost when all that
water is asked to re-heat all the surfaces again. *For example when I
feel the return manifold from the coils under my concrete slab after
the slab was allowed to cool, the return water is ice cold, all that
energy to reheat the slab. *No, bad asvice, best to keep it warm and
leave it there, saves tons of energy.


We use warm water here to shower. *I'd say that a higher % of people use
heat pumps or gas to heat rather than water. *In your case, MAYBE it is
cheaper to leave it on, but I think you are only quoting yourself, and no
analytic studies by any testing agency. *Can you find any said studies? *I
don't doubt that you believe what you say is true, I just think that it is
not.


Steve


Boiler installers never put daily "set back" thermostats on boilers,
only forced air systems get those, and they tell you to set the
thermostat once and leave it there.


The rules are completely different for radiant heated buidings vs air
heated buildings.


In an air heated building you heat the air, in a radiant heated
building you heat the building materials and that in turn heats the
people. *When you lose all that stored energy it costs a fortune to
recover it back in boiler usage. *There is nothing quite like the
warmth of a radiant-heated house.


So the laws of themodynamics are different from system to system?

Heat its lost to the environment based on the difference in
temperature between the heated space & the unheated space. * As the
temperature of the heated space falls, the heat loss also fails. *When
the temperature of the heated space falls to that of the unheated
space, heat loss stops.

I believe you are confusing the "time" it takes to recover with "huge
amounts of energy are required to re-heat everything".

If you were correct in your thinking (& oyu are not) the whole concept
of temperature setback would not work (& it does).

cheers
Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If left alone the boiler kicks on maybe once every 4-6 hours for only
a short 5-10 minute period (maybe 4 or 5 recyclings of the entire
water load).

If you let the house cool for 10 hours while at work, the boiler will
have to run several hours to get all the floors (and house contents)
heated again.


Are you sure. You just said that the boiler it runs 5-10 minutes
every 4 to 6 hours. So if you are gone for 10 hours, the maximum
that the boiler wouldn't run would be 20 minutes.) Yet now you say it
would take several hours to get the house heated again. Plainly it
would take 20 minutes or less to get the boiler heated to it's normal
temp, instead of just pretty hot for lack of 20 minutes of heating.

I don't have a boilerIs there more to the cycle that you think would
delay heating the house?

This run is more than the sum amount of time the boiler
would have been fired if you had just left it alone.


No, it's not. You just assume that it is. Or it seems like it.

You've never
lived with a boiler have you? Air is low mass, it heats up very
quickly, radiant heating of the building mass itself takes longer from
the same starting temp as the air entering a forced-air system.


Of course it takes longer to heat up. It also takes longer to cool
off, so it isn't as cold as the air is when you get home.

Yes, the "rules" are different for forced-air vs under-floor radiant
heat, in practice, but not the laws of thermodynamics are not.


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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:56 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote:

On Oct 29, 8:51*pm, DD_BobK wrote:
On Oct 29, 11:05*am, RickH wrote:





On Oct 29, 10:36*am, "SteveB" wrote:


No, it takes too long to re-heat the boiler and all the water in the
pipes, radiators, and floor tubing. *It is always best to set it once
and leave it there all winter. *Too much energy is lost when all that
water is asked to re-heat all the surfaces again. *For example when I
feel the return manifold from the coils under my concrete slab after
the slab was allowed to cool, the return water is ice cold, all that
energy to reheat the slab. *No, bad asvice, best to keep it warm and
leave it there, saves tons of energy.


We use warm water here to shower. *I'd say that a higher % of people use
heat pumps or gas to heat rather than water. *In your case, MAYBE it is
cheaper to leave it on, but I think you are only quoting yourself, and no
analytic studies by any testing agency. *Can you find any said studies? *I
don't doubt that you believe what you say is true, I just think that it is
not.


Steve


Boiler installers never put daily "set back" thermostats on boilers,
only forced air systems get those, and they tell you to set the
thermostat once and leave it there.


The rules are completely different for radiant heated buidings vs air
heated buildings.


In an air heated building you heat the air, in a radiant heated
building you heat the building materials and that in turn heats the
people. *When you lose all that stored energy it costs a fortune to
recover it back in boiler usage. *There is nothing quite like the
warmth of a radiant-heated house.


So the laws of themodynamics are different from system to system?

Heat its lost to the environment based on the difference in
temperature between the heated space & the unheated space. * As the
temperature of the heated space falls, the heat loss also fails. *When
the temperature of the heated space falls to that of the unheated
space, heat loss stops.

I believe you are confusing the "time" it takes to recover with "huge
amounts of energy are required to re-heat everything".

If you were correct in your thinking (& oyu are not) the whole concept
of temperature setback would not work (& it does).

cheers
Bob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If left alone the boiler kicks on maybe once every 4-6 hours for only
a short 5-10 minute period (maybe 4 or 5 recyclings of the entire
water load).

If you let the house cool for 10 hours while at work, the boiler will
have to run several hours to get all the floors (and house contents)
heated again.


Are you sure. You just said that the boiler it runs 5-10 minutes
every 4 to 6 hours. So if you are gone for 10 hours, the maximum
that the boiler wouldn't run would be 20 minutes.) Yet now you say it
would take several hours to get the house heated again. Plainly it
would take 20 minutes or less to get the boiler heated to it's normal
temp, instead of just pretty hot for lack of 20 minutes of heating.

I don't have a boilerIs there more to the cycle that you think would
delay heating the house?

This run is more than the sum amount of time the boiler
would have been fired if you had just left it alone.


No, it's not. You just assume that it is. Or it seems like it.

You've never
lived with a boiler have you? Air is low mass, it heats up very
quickly, radiant heating of the building mass itself takes longer from
the same starting temp as the air entering a forced-air system.


Of course it takes longer to heat up. It also takes longer to cool
off, so it isn't as cold as the air is when you get home.

Yes, the "rules" are different for forced-air vs under-floor radiant
heat, in practice, but not the laws of thermodynamics are not.


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On Oct 30, 6:53*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Well, sad to hear that you live in an over regulated part of
the world.


No, It is not regulation. Collective logical common sense.


Collective logical common sense


hmmmm


cheers
Bob
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On Oct 30, 6:53*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Well, sad to hear that you live in an over regulated part of
the world.


No, It is not regulation. Collective logical common sense.


Collective logical common sense


hmmmm


cheers
Bob


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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:26:52 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:26:33 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
It's the same principle that makes elevators come faster if you hit the
call button ten times


I got into the habit of taking the stairs. Often it's quicker, and it's
good exercise. Bonus points for being spotted by the same person at
either end and claiming you have teleportation powers :-)


One time I entered an old 4-floor building. Someone had just got on
the elevator (there was just one) so I took the stairs. I got to the
4th floor and waited for the elevator to get there.

BTW, that reminds me of the time I went to the hospital after a friend
was taken away in an ambulance. I got there first.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:26:52 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:26:33 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
It's the same principle that makes elevators come faster if you hit the
call button ten times


I got into the habit of taking the stairs. Often it's quicker, and it's
good exercise. Bonus points for being spotted by the same person at
either end and claiming you have teleportation powers :-)


One time I entered an old 4-floor building. Someone had just got on
the elevator (there was just one) so I took the stairs. I got to the
4th floor and waited for the elevator to get there.

BTW, that reminds me of the time I went to the hospital after a friend
was taken away in an ambulance. I got there first.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:33 -0500, Red Green
wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hcem10
:

Next week, I'll ask how to hang the roll of toilet paper. Or
how to change a light bulb.


BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or down?


:-)


The ground is supposed to be pointed toward the grave of Nikola Tesla,
or at least as close as you can get.
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On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:47:33 -0500, Red Green
wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hcem10
:

Next week, I'll ask how to hang the roll of toilet paper. Or
how to change a light bulb.


BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or down?


:-)


The ground is supposed to be pointed toward the grave of Nikola Tesla,
or at least as close as you can get.
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The ground is always on the top. Cause if a piece of wire or
metal drops behind the plug, the ground keeps it from
shorting the two flat prongs.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...

BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or
down?


:-)




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The ground is always on the top. Cause if a piece of wire or
metal drops behind the plug, the ground keeps it from
shorting the two flat prongs.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...

BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or
down?


:-)


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My heat source is a 90% downflow hot air furnace.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:18:35 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Boilers are typically left hot, so there isn't a bunch of
humidity in the boiler, rusting it out. And, boiler systems
often do take a LONG time to recover temp.


Yeah, but do you have one? His first answer assumed you
did.


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My heat source is a 90% downflow hot air furnace.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:18:35 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Boilers are typically left hot, so there isn't a bunch of
humidity in the boiler, rusting it out. And, boiler systems
often do take a LONG time to recover temp.


Yeah, but do you have one? His first answer assumed you
did.


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Was the bambulance going all out, or just routine transport?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

BTW, that reminds me of the time I went to the hospital
after a friend
was taken away in an ambulance. I got there first.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster


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Was the bambulance going all out, or just routine transport?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...

BTW, that reminds me of the time I went to the hospital
after a friend
was taken away in an ambulance. I got there first.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster




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Is that like Muslims praying toward Mecca? Need a big
pointer in every town square?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Harry L" wrote in message
...

BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or
down?


:-)


The ground is supposed to be pointed toward the grave of
Nikola Tesla,
or at least as close as you can get.


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Is that like Muslims praying toward Mecca? Need a big
pointer in every town square?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Harry L" wrote in message
...

BTW, which way does the ground go on a duplex outlet, up or
down?


:-)


The ground is supposed to be pointed toward the grave of
Nikola Tesla,
or at least as close as you can get.


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I've seen some very frightened red lights.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Eric" wrote in message
.. .
"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
I've met enough people who think slamming the thermostat
makes it heat faster. Dunno. They must learn from driving
a
car where tromping the gas pedal throws it into four
barrel?


I think those are the same people who think that by creeping
forward at a red light, they can
intimidate it into changing to green faster.

Eric Law



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I've seen some very frightened red lights.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Eric" wrote in message
.. .
"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
I've met enough people who think slamming the thermostat
makes it heat faster. Dunno. They must learn from driving
a
car where tromping the gas pedal throws it into four
barrel?


I think those are the same people who think that by creeping
forward at a red light, they can
intimidate it into changing to green faster.

Eric Law



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A very few furnaces (furnai?) are two stages. And some heat
pumps have second stage "emergency heat".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...

the question about wives turning the stat all the way
up/down so the
heat/a/c runs faster. I doubt there are 1% who DON'T think
that. My ex
certainly did, and it was a total waste of time trying to
explain it to
her. Unfortunately, women don't have a monopoly on that
kind of
thinking-- I know a lot of guys who think the same thing.
Larry


Try telling them that the thermostat is just a switch
(on-off) not a
"gas pedal" like in their car.

cheers
Bob




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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

A very few furnaces (furnai?) are two stages. And some heat
pumps have second stage "emergency heat".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...

the question about wives turning the stat all the way
up/down so the
heat/a/c runs faster. I doubt there are 1% who DON'T think
that. My ex
certainly did, and it was a total waste of time trying to
explain it to
her. Unfortunately, women don't have a monopoly on that
kind of
thinking-- I know a lot of guys who think the same thing.
Larry


Try telling them that the thermostat is just a switch
(on-off) not a
"gas pedal" like in their car.

cheers
Bob


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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hcg462
:

The ground is always on the top. Cause if a piece of wire or
metal drops behind the plug, the ground keeps it from
shorting the two flat prongs.


Yea but if the ground is on top and orange juice spills in it, the ground
will divide the water left and right just beyond the prongs (regardless of
liquid volume, velocity, viscosity, wind, gravity, sunspots, etc) and
effectively nothing happens. Ask MacGruber.
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:hcg462
:

The ground is always on the top. Cause if a piece of wire or
metal drops behind the plug, the ground keeps it from
shorting the two flat prongs.


Yea but if the ground is on top and orange juice spills in it, the ground
will divide the water left and right just beyond the prongs (regardless of
liquid volume, velocity, viscosity, wind, gravity, sunspots, etc) and
effectively nothing happens. Ask MacGruber.
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Tony Hwang wrote in :

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Well, sad to hear that you live in an over regulated part of
the world.

No, It is not regulation. Collective logical common sense.




Collective logical common sense.



Assimilated Vulcans?
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Tony Hwang wrote in :

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Well, sad to hear that you live in an over regulated part of
the world.

No, It is not regulation. Collective logical common sense.




Collective logical common sense.



Assimilated Vulcans?
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Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Please forgive me while I troll for a moment.....

Is it energy saving to turn the thermostat down, when leaving the
house? I mean, the furnace has to run to catch up when I get
home. I
have a way of looking at the matter. I'll explain my point of view
after the argument is underway.


Six of one, half dozen of the other. Depends on how long you are
gone.
Leaving the thermostat at a steady temperature saves energy. On the
other hand, a lower difference between the inside wall and the
outside
wall means lower heat loss. So lowering the thermostat does save
energy
in the long run. Now, constantly raising and lowering the
temperature
for short periods wastes energy. When you raise it you have to
reheat
not only the heating system but the entire inside wall, floor and
ceiling not to mention all the furniture and appliances. When you
lower
the thermostat, all those items lose all their heat again the
heat is
drawn out into the room and the room loses it through the walls
to the
outside. So....use your little noggin.
Wow,
Where are you coming from? The lower the setting the longer the
setting. You save energy. I am talking about how much saving. Just
it saves. Our 'stat is set to 17C from midnight. Back up to 20C at
7 in
the morning. It does make a difference. Now our NG price is 3.80 per
GigaJoule. Electricity is 7 cents/KWh

I like my house 80 degrees all the time. I burn pellets and wood.
Screw saving energy. I'm not gonna pay for fuel and freeze my ****ing
ass off.
Hmm,
So you are a polluter. Where I live wood burning is no, no. Fire
places are all NG burning. Even my cabin in the woods have NG FP.
One who lives in past century! 80 degrees? You must have some kind of
medical condition. Or are running around naked in the house?

FACT: NG is a C02 polluter, wood and wood pellets are not. WOod is
carbon neutr


So how many trees have you planted in your life time?
Even spent a time in forestry camp in your younger days planting
seedlings? Very hard work.

You don't need to plant ****. If you stop using a field for farming it
soon turns into forest. I have see this all through my life. Fields I
use to play in and slide on in the winter are all woods now with trees
50 years old.


People like you are called part of problem.
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Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Please forgive me while I troll for a moment.....

Is it energy saving to turn the thermostat down, when leaving the
house? I mean, the furnace has to run to catch up when I get
home. I
have a way of looking at the matter. I'll explain my point of view
after the argument is underway.


Six of one, half dozen of the other. Depends on how long you are
gone.
Leaving the thermostat at a steady temperature saves energy. On the
other hand, a lower difference between the inside wall and the
outside
wall means lower heat loss. So lowering the thermostat does save
energy
in the long run. Now, constantly raising and lowering the
temperature
for short periods wastes energy. When you raise it you have to
reheat
not only the heating system but the entire inside wall, floor and
ceiling not to mention all the furniture and appliances. When you
lower
the thermostat, all those items lose all their heat again the
heat is
drawn out into the room and the room loses it through the walls
to the
outside. So....use your little noggin.
Wow,
Where are you coming from? The lower the setting the longer the
setting. You save energy. I am talking about how much saving. Just
it saves. Our 'stat is set to 17C from midnight. Back up to 20C at
7 in
the morning. It does make a difference. Now our NG price is 3.80 per
GigaJoule. Electricity is 7 cents/KWh

I like my house 80 degrees all the time. I burn pellets and wood.
Screw saving energy. I'm not gonna pay for fuel and freeze my ****ing
ass off.
Hmm,
So you are a polluter. Where I live wood burning is no, no. Fire
places are all NG burning. Even my cabin in the woods have NG FP.
One who lives in past century! 80 degrees? You must have some kind of
medical condition. Or are running around naked in the house?

FACT: NG is a C02 polluter, wood and wood pellets are not. WOod is
carbon neutr


So how many trees have you planted in your life time?
Even spent a time in forestry camp in your younger days planting
seedlings? Very hard work.

You don't need to plant ****. If you stop using a field for farming it
soon turns into forest. I have see this all through my life. Fields I
use to play in and slide on in the winter are all woods now with trees
50 years old.


People like you are called part of problem.
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There's a factor you haven't considered.

If you have a programmable thermostat it doesn't apply.

But if you have a manual one, changing the setting frequently will
make it wear out faster.

Never having worn one out myself, I don't have a guess at how much
faster that would be.
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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:33:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Was the bambulance going all out, or just routine transport?


It was an emergency. Someone had a stroke.

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"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
.. .

BTW, that reminds me of the time I went to the hospital
after a friend
was taken away in an ambulance. I got there first.

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55 days until the winter solstice celebration

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absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster
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Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:


[Christmas presents]
[Christmas presents]


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Bother! What, did you take the subway or something?

--
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Learn more about Jesus
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"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 21:33:37 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Was the bambulance going all out, or just routine
transport?


It was an emergency. Someone had a stroke.



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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:05:16 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote:

On Oct 29, 10:36*am, "SteveB" wrote:
No, it takes too long to re-heat the boiler and all the water in the
pipes, radiators, and floor tubing. *It is always best to set it once
and leave it there all winter. *Too much energy is lost when all that
water is asked to re-heat all the surfaces again. *For example when I
feel the return manifold from the coils under my concrete slab after
the slab was allowed to cool, the return water is ice cold, all that
energy to reheat the slab. *No, bad asvice, best to keep it warm and
leave it there, saves tons of energy.


We use warm water here to shower. *I'd say that a higher % of people use
heat pumps or gas to heat rather than water. *In your case, MAYBE it is
cheaper to leave it on, but I think you are only quoting yourself, and no
analytic studies by any testing agency. *Can you find any said studies? *I
don't doubt that you believe what you say is true, I just think that it is
not.

Steve


Boiler installers never put daily "set back" thermostats on boilers,
only forced air systems get those, and they tell you to set the
thermostat once and leave it there.

The rules are completely different for radiant heated buidings vs air
heated buildings.

In an air heated building you heat the air, in a radiant heated
building you heat the building materials and that in turn heats the
people. When you lose all that stored energy it costs a fortune to
recover it back in boiler usage. There is nothing quite like the
warmth of a radiant-heated house.


Sorry, but no matter what you do, if you lower the AVERAGE temperature
over a long period, you save energy. That's the beginning, middle, and
end of the facts. Your average temp over the entire heating season is
what counts. Lowering the temp for a period each day results in a
lower average temp over the course of a heating season.



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FACT: NG is a C02 polluter, wood and wood pellets are not. WOod is
carbon neutral.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



CO2 is NOT a pollutant any more then H2O is...

Oh Oh, the black helicopters are coming...

Mark

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All things in moderation, of course. The folks in New
Orleans might consider water a pollutant.

--
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..


"Mark" wrote in message
...


CO2 is NOT a pollutant any more then H2O is...

Oh Oh, the black helicopters are coming...

Mark


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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

On Oct 30, 7:50*am, RickH wrote:
On Oct 29, 8:51*pm, DD_BobK wrote:



On Oct 29, 11:05*am, RickH wrote:


On Oct 29, 10:36*am, "SteveB" wrote:


No, it takes too long to re-heat the boiler and all the water in the
pipes, radiators, and floor tubing. *It is always best to set it once
and leave it there all winter. *Too much energy is lost when all that
water is asked to re-heat all the surfaces again. *For example when I
feel the return manifold from the coils under my concrete slab after
the slab was allowed to cool, the return water is ice cold, all that
energy to reheat the slab. *No, bad asvice, best to keep it warm and
leave it there, saves tons of energy.


We use warm water here to shower. *I'd say that a higher % of people use
heat pumps or gas to heat rather than water. *In your case, MAYBE it is
cheaper to leave it on, but I think you are only quoting yourself, and no
analytic studies by any testing agency. *Can you find any said studies? *I
don't doubt that you believe what you say is true, I just think that it is
not.


Steve


Boiler installers never put daily "set back" thermostats on boilers,
only forced air systems get those, and they tell you to set the
thermostat once and leave it there.


The rules are completely different for radiant heated buidings vs air
heated buildings.


In an air heated building you heat the air, in a radiant heated
building you heat the building materials and that in turn heats the
people. *When you lose all that stored energy it costs a fortune to
recover it back in boiler usage. *There is nothing quite like the
warmth of a radiant-heated house.


So the laws of themodynamics are different from system to system?


Heat its lost to the environment based on the difference in
temperature between the heated space & the unheated space. * As the
temperature of the heated space falls, the heat loss also fails. *When
the temperature of the heated space falls to that of the unheated
space, heat loss stops.


I believe you are confusing the "time" it takes to recover with "huge
amounts of energy are required to re-heat everything".


If you were correct in your thinking (& oyu are not) the whole concept
of temperature setback would not work (& it does).


cheers
Bob- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


If left alone the boiler kicks on maybe once every 4-6 hours for only
a short 5-10 minute period (maybe 4 or 5 recyclings of the entire
water load).

If you let the house cool for 10 hours while at work, the boiler will
have to run several hours to get all the floors (and house contents)
heated again. *This run is more than the sum amount of time the boiler
would have been fired if you had just left it alone. *You've never
lived with a boiler have you? *Air is low mass, it heats up very
quickly, radiant heating of the building mass itself takes longer from
the same starting temp as the air entering a forced-air system.

Yes, the "rules" are different for forced-air vs under-floor radiant
heat, in practice, but not the laws of thermodynamics are not.




If left alone the boiler kicks on maybe once every 4-6 hours for only
a short 5-10 minute period (maybe 4 or 5 recyclings of the entire
water load).

If you let the house cool for 10 hours while at work, the boiler will
have to run several hours to get all the floors (and house contents)
heated again.




Your numbers cannot be correct.....

"left alone" it runs 10 minutes in 5 hours but "setback" for 10 hours
("let the house cool") and "the boiler will have to run several
hours"

nonsense

cheers
Bob

btw did you do those thermal mass / heat capacity calcs?
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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:32:19 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've met enough people who think slamming the thermostat
makes it heat faster. Dunno. They must learn from driving a
car where tromping the gas pedal throws it into four barrel?


I've noticed with my computer that if the key doesn't work, I hit the
key harder and then it does.
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Default Turn thermostat down or leave steady?

In article ,
Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:26:52 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:26:33 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:
It's the same principle that makes elevators come faster if you hit the
call button ten times


I got into the habit of taking the stairs. Often it's quicker, and it's
good exercise. Bonus points for being spotted by the same person at
either end and claiming you have teleportation powers :-)


One time I entered an old 4-floor building. Someone had just got on
the elevator (there was just one) so I took the stairs. I got to the
4th floor and waited for the elevator to get there.


A little faster and you'll be ready for Chris Angel's trick: throwing
something off the roof of a multi-story building, then running out the
front door to catch it.
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