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aemeijers October 10th 09 01:22 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
dpb,

Sorry about the size. I took them with my cell phone so the'd be smaller
than the 10mb slr.

The risers and stringers are going to be painted.

So see the damage, look at eithe picture and find the glue joint closet to
the back riser. That glue joint has failed. The other tread has two failed
glue joints. FWIR it's the first and second glue joints nearest to the
riser. Either way it's deep into the tread.

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper riser
between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper and lower
tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that riser. I'll
experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop of the lower
tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

Bernie

If you do that, please take a well-lit photo of the opened-up step, and
post a link back here. At this point, I'm curious what the actual
internal construction of the stairs is. I still suspect what you are
calling a stringer is just a trim board, and what somebody else called
skirting. But if there is no center stringer, I suppose this could be a
factory-made prefab staircase or something, and have dado'd stringers.
You say the step feels springy in the center, at least with the detached
part of the tread. If you tap the center part of the riser, does it ring
hollow or solid? A tiny hole drilled in the center of the riser would
tell you in seconds if there is a center stringer or not. What year was
the house built? How wide are the stairs?

Also, please use your real camera for the pictures. If it is 10
megapixel, there will be a menu to turn the resolution down, or you can
do it in your computer as you post it. The better lens and flash
compared to a cell phone will make a much better picture.

This long-distance pro-bono consulting is frustrating at times. I'm no
expert, but I know if I could see it in person, I could figure it out in
a few minutes. The actual experts on here could do it even quicker. A
sharp ice pick and thin putty knife, and a hammer, would quickly answer
a lot of questions about what is part of what, and how it all fits together.
--
aem sends...

Tony[_19_] October 10th 09 01:35 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
I removed the carpet from our stairs and there are two treads that are
split. I don't have access to the bottom due to a plaster ceiling
underneath. The treads are high on the flight so both ends of the tread are
encapsulated in a dado in the stringer. I'd like to remove and replace the
treads.

Getting the old tread out will be messy but quite possible. I figure to
plunge cut into the middle with either a circular saw or a Fien with the
right blade. My question is how to get the new tread installed?

Any suggestions? I have a full woodworking shop, so very little is not
possible. I've just never worked on a stair case with both sides
encapsulated into the stringers before.

Here is a picture of the left and right sides of the stair tread.
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0110.jpg
http://www.cybertecservices.com/files/imag0111.jpg

Thanks,
Bernie


I'd go with the drill, glue, and screw as others mentioned. If you want
to clamp it before installing the screw (I would), wedge a 2x4 between
the edge of the tread and the wall opposite (cut to length). If the
opposite wall is sheet rock or plaster, first use a 2x4 across 2 studs
so it doesn't poke a hole in the wall.

dpb October 10th 09 04:38 AM

Stair tread replacement
 
aemeijers wrote:
Bernie Hunt wrote:
dpb,

Sorry about the size. I took them with my cell phone so the'd be
smaller than the 10mb slr.

The risers and stringers are going to be painted.


Almost certainly that is _NOT_ a stringer; it's a skirtboard and isn't
anything but cosmetic.

Take it off
....

You bring up an interesting point.


:) I told ya' I done this before...

...I may be able to bust out the upper
riser between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper
and lower tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that
riser. I'll experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop
of the lower tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.


Precisely altho you almost certainly don't need to tear much of it up or
out; particularly if you're going to paint all that is needed is an access.

I'd still first make sure that it isn't pretty much a no-brainer to
remove the skirtboard(s), raise the tread, take it to the jointer and
renew the jointing surfaces and reglue then put it back.

At worst you make a new skirt but given the shape the one is in w/ the
dings and all, that's no loss.

--

cshenk October 10th 09 03:00 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
"Bernie Hunt" wrote
cshenk,


Thanks for the pics Bernie, helped alot. Worked on a house once with a
stairwell that looked much like that. The 'top stringer' that showed was
cosmetic. The real only support member was underneath. We removed it as
it was ugly and warped. Then we put corner molding along both sides.
(the risers were flush to the steps so this wasnt that hard).

Assuming however the 'stringer' isnt cosmetic (since you have a better
view in person, you'd know), then I'd take out the bad wood and cut a
replacement that will drop down and fit, but won't have the one side fit
into the stringer (fill that portion in with something).

Support by strong brackets to the bottom stringer (apply brackets, then
drop stair on them after fitting in at the other end). If the risers are
properly supported, put more brackets on the bottom of the stair. With
careful measuring, you can get a tight 'fit' so the stair doesnt wiggle
(in any direction) and with predrilled holes, you can attach to the lower
riser then cover with some sort of wood putty.


That's the direction I'm headed. Get the old stair out and then brace all
the way around underneath. The left side of the stairwell, when assending,
is a wall all the way to the ceiling. The right side stops at floor level
on the second floor. So people will be looking to the right as the accend
the steps. I'll flll the left side dado so it's flush with the surface on
the stringer. Then I'll cut the new step to fit in the right side dado and
lie on the new cleat on the left side.

The one I showed you will be the easier one, the upper stair has the knwel
post sitting on it. I'll have to look at removing it.


Can you get us a pic of that too then? Hey, the camera might not be perfect
but it works well enough and it's what you have. Perhaps we'll have some
workable ideas for you but have to see the post and railing.

I liked the idea of the riser access too but only if you are real sure there
isnt a support member behind it. Then again, I figured you had to remove a
stair tred anyways, so the riser access might be more work?

Tap carefully with a hammer (rubber mallet works better) all along the tops
of several stairs (healthy ones as well as bad ones) from left to right. If
there's a fairly consistant sound difference at some spot, usually middle,
then you have a 3rd structural stringer that you couldnt see because of the
plaster underside. There's good reason for it too as it's underside makes
the lath frame the plaster may have been attached to. It may *not* be in
the center. Say they had a bunch of that lath frame wood in scrappy form
that was 2 ft long (left over from some other part of building the house).
Stairwell looks like it's abut 3. Might be you find a 3rd support stringer
2ft from one side and about a foot on the other. Harmless and easy to tap
along several steps to see if you can tell something is there before you
open anything up.

I wish I had a picture to show you of what the underside might be since it's
plastered. Generally the frame that was plastered has a support frame with
I think it's no more than 18 inches. Similar to studs in a wall then cross
pieces you plastered. Methods varied with age of house. wikipedeia look
for lath and plaster.


dpb October 10th 09 08:07 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
Bernie Hunt wrote:
....

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper riser
between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper and lower
tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that riser. I'll
experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop of the lower
tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

....

OK, I let it load the images. Even w/ magnification it really doesn't
look to me like either end of the tread is housed.

Since the stairs are enclosed on both ends, how could they be unless
those are skirtboards installed after the treads were already laid or,
if housed into the stringers they treads had to have been inserted from
the rear before the ceiling below was finished.

Have you unequivocally proven they really _are_ housed?

--

aemeijers October 10th 09 10:15 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
dpb wrote:
Bernie Hunt wrote:
...

You bring up an interesting point. I may be able to bust out the upper
riser between the two bad stairs. That might give access to the upper
and lower tread for clamping. I would then just have to replace that
riser. I'll experiement and see if I can tell if that riser sits ontop
of the lower tread. If it does then I may be able to get it out.

...

OK, I let it load the images. Even w/ magnification it really doesn't
look to me like either end of the tread is housed.

Since the stairs are enclosed on both ends, how could they be unless
those are skirtboards installed after the treads were already laid or,
if housed into the stringers they treads had to have been inserted from
the rear before the ceiling below was finished.

Have you unequivocally proven they really _are_ housed?

--


I don't think they are either, in this case. but staircases like that do
exist. Factory made prefabs, sold ready to drop into place. Usually not
pretty stairs for upstairs use, but not uncommon in low end houses for
basement stairs. Quite common in modulars that are flown in over a basement.

--
aem sends...

dpb October 10th 09 10:33 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
aemeijers wrote:
....
I don't think they are either, in this case. but staircases like that do
exist. Factory made prefabs, sold ready to drop into place. Usually not
pretty stairs for upstairs use, but not uncommon in low end houses for
basement stairs. Quite common in modulars that are flown in over a
basement.


That's clearly not prefab.

--

cshenk November 11th 09 03:21 PM

Stair tread replacement
 
"Bernie Hunt" wrote
cshenk,

That's the direction I'm headed. Get the old stair out and then brace all
the way around underneath. The left side of the stairwell, when assending,
is a wall all the way to the ceiling. The right side stops at floor level
on the second floor. So people will be looking to the right as the accend
the steps. I'll flll the left side dado so it's flush with the surface on
the stringer. Then I'll cut the new step to fit in the right side dado and
lie on the new cleat on the left side.


Hi Bernie, I imagine it's done now? Curious how it went.



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