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Bryce February 25th 09 11:49 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?

Rich February 26th 09 12:07 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 

"Bryce" wrote in message
...
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Drain it and sweep it out after it's dry.
Sounds odd to me. Half the cost to run it for a year is what it takes to not
run it? I'd look into it more?

Rich



ransley February 26th 09 12:29 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 25, 4:49*pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. *They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. *What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


lost revenue

Jerry February 26th 09 01:12 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 25, 3:49*pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. *They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. *What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Dunno. If the surrounding soil is expansive, there could be concerns
with the walls cracking with the pool empty - maybe need to do
something to brace the walls?

Jerry

gpsman February 26th 09 01:24 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 25, 5:49*pm, Bryce wrote:
they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. *What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


If it's currently covered and empty of water, nothing.
-----

- gpsman

aemeijers February 26th 09 01:32 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Jerry wrote:
On Feb 25, 3:49 pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Dunno. If the surrounding soil is expansive, there could be concerns
with the walls cracking with the pool empty - maybe need to do
something to brace the walls?

Jerry

Like fill it halfway with heavily chlorinated water? Floor heaving is
more likely than walls cracking, but I'm no engineer.

(Same concept as why residential sand'n'vinyl pools are never emptied
all the way...)

--
aem sends....

[email protected] February 26th 09 01:38 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:49:39 -0500, Bryce
wrote:

Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Maybe you misunderstood or they weren't clear. It may very well be
that what they meant was that even with the pool emptied and shut
down, there will still be expenses for insurance, security, general
maintenance, and other fixed costs that will still need to be paid
whether it is open for swimming or not.


Steve Barker[_2_] February 26th 09 01:48 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


that's bs. All it takes is a super shocking treatment and a good cover.

s

Steve Barker[_2_] February 26th 09 01:49 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Rich wrote:
"Bryce" wrote in message
...
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Drain it and sweep it out after it's dry.
Sounds odd to me. Half the cost to run it for a year is what it takes to not
run it? I'd look into it more?

Rich


you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.

s

Steve Barker[_2_] February 26th 09 01:54 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
aemeijers wrote:
Jerry wrote:
On Feb 25, 3:49 pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


Dunno. If the surrounding soil is expansive, there could be concerns
with the walls cracking with the pool empty - maybe need to do
something to brace the walls?

Jerry

Like fill it halfway with heavily chlorinated water? Floor heaving is
more likely than walls cracking, but I'm no engineer.

(Same concept as why residential sand'n'vinyl pools are never emptied
all the way...)

--
aem sends....


Well also, on Vinyl, the stuff shrinks real bad after being exposed to
chlorine. If you let it dry out, they usually tear off the top when you
refill them. I wouldn't even take a vinyl pool down half way. I used
to just pull the hose off the skimmer of our above ground and let that
be the winter level.

s

aemeijers February 26th 09 01:56 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Steve Barker wrote:
Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to operate for the season,
but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


that's bs. All it takes is a super shocking treatment and a good cover.

s

Residential pool, sure. A municipal pool is what, a quarter of an acre?
Nobody makes covers that big.

--
aem sends....

Bob[_14_] February 26th 09 02:50 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
aemeijers wrote:

Residential pool, sure. A municipal pool is what, a quarter of an acre?
Nobody makes covers that big.


Floating covers are quite commonplace for municipal pools. They retain
the heat and reduce evaporation. But the liability issues remain, just
as they would with an empty pool.

Oren[_2_] February 26th 09 03:18 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:50:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

But the liability issues remain, just as they would with an empty pool.


Next to a school, years ago a community pool was drained for repair. A
local kid died after he dove from the diving board into an empty pool.
Kids climbed the fence at night for a swim. No lights on.

Steve Barker[_2_] February 26th 09 05:16 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
aemeijers wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to operate for the season,
but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


that's bs. All it takes is a super shocking treatment and a good cover.

s

Residential pool, sure. A municipal pool is what, a quarter of an acre?
Nobody makes covers that big.

--
aem sends....

oh really? best get out and take a look. They certainly don't leave
them exposed to fill with leaves and every other kind of ****.

s

Jon Danniken[_2_] February 26th 09 05:19 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained, raising
the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.

Jon



Steve Barker[_2_] February 26th 09 05:25 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Jon Danniken wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained, raising
the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.

Jon



exactly, and people say concrete don't float.. LOL!

steve

Smitty Two February 26th 09 05:49 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained, raising
the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.

Jon



exactly, and people say concrete don't float.. LOL!

steve


In shoe form it doesn't. But hell, they make boat hulls out of it.

Oren[_2_] February 26th 09 06:23 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:19:51 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained, raising
the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.


Drained my pool just last year: For what I know it was the first
time.

My water table is 385' below the desert and will never cause my pool
to float.


[email protected] February 26th 09 03:38 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:49:39 -0500, Bryce
wrote:

Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


What is needed to mothball a pool varies greatly with the
design of the pool, the local ground conditions and the local weather
conditions.

bob haller February 26th 09 03:44 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 26, 9:38�am, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:49:39 -0500, Bryce
wrote:

Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. �They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.


Wow. �What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


� � � � What is needed to mothball a pool varies greatly with the
design of the pool, the local ground conditions and the local weather
conditions. �


suggest community fund raising to cover the remaining 50 grand
difference. and remind them the kids who would of hung out at the pool
may turn to mischef and crime, from boredom

Charlie Darwin February 26th 09 09:14 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 9:38?am, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:49:39 -0500, Bryce
wrote:

Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. ?They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.


Wow. ?What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


? ? ? ? What is needed to mothball a pool varies greatly with the
design of the pool, the local ground conditions and the local weather
conditions. ?


suggest community fund raising to cover the remaining 50 grand
difference. and remind them the kids who would of hung out at the pool
may turn to mischef and crime, from boredom


Leave about eight inches of water in the deep end of the pool and use it
waterboard the miscreants found guilty.



Malcolm Hoar February 26th 09 10:50 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
In article , Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


A sh*tload of mothballs?

I would guess... security, insurance, maintenance to
prevent stagnant water accumulation (mosquitos),
salaries for the (tenured) life guards and more...

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|
http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bob haller February 27th 09 01:32 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 26, 4:50�pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. �They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.


Wow. �What needs to be done to mothball a pool?


A sh*tload of mothballs?

I would guess... security, insurance, maintenance to
prevent stagnant water accumulation (mosquitos),
salaries for the (tenured) life guards and more...

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar � � � � � "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/� � � � � � � Shpx gur PQN. � � � � � � � �|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


keep mostly full of water so it doesnt float and destroy itself, they
do actually raise right out of the ground. now chlorinate and
circulate the water so it doesnt get stagnant and buggy, now add lnite
sec urity lighting, guards, cut grass, maintain buildings, pay utility
bills.

its all very costly, espically if you want to use it again.

if re use isnt part of plan just jackhammer big hole in bottom so
water cant accumulate, fill the now junk pool with fill ...........

still need minimal maintence on buildings unless you tear them down,
and stuff like cutting grass, and security so it doesnt become a
druggie hangout etc

Malcolm Hoar February 27th 09 01:57 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
In article , bob haller wrote:

if re use isnt part of plan just jackhammer big hole in bottom so
water cant accumulate, fill the now junk pool with fill ...........


In some places like California there are very stringent code
requirements for filling in pools. It's a *very* expensive
proposition.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|
http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

aemeijers February 27th 09 02:12 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Jon Danniken wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained, raising
the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.

Jon


Depends on local soil conditions and how the pool was built. Town I grew
up in had a huge late 1940s outdoor municipal pool, like Olympic size 12
lane, plus a T with a dive area. They emptied it every year. But the
concrete was thick and heavily rebarred, and on that end of town, there
was a thick layer of gravel about 10-12 feet down under everything. (as
a wee lad, I saw LOTS of basements go in, less than a mile from there.)
Water table spikes were not a problem around there. A mile the other
direction, however, they just had a century flood, last summer.

--
aem sends...

The Daring Dufas[_6_] February 28th 09 02:53 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Steve Barker wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote:
you don't drain a pool unless you want massive amounts of trouble and
stand a chance of never using it again.


Aye, they drained one around here a few years ago. Then it rained,
raising the water table up to the point where it floated the pool a
few inches.

That turned out to be a big mess.

Jon


exactly, and people say concrete don't float.. LOL!

steve


During WWII I believe there were a number of ships
or barges built out of concrete.

TDD

The Daring Dufas[_6_] February 28th 09 02:56 AM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Oren wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:50:22 -0800, Bob wrote:

But the liability issues remain, just as they would with an empty pool.


Next to a school, years ago a community pool was drained for repair. A
local kid died after he dove from the diving board into an empty pool.
Kids climbed the fence at night for a swim. No lights on.


Darwin at work.

TDD

[email protected] February 28th 09 03:21 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 26, 7:57*pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , bob haller wrote:

if re use isnt part of plan just jackhammer big hole in bottom so
water cant accumulate, fill the now junk pool with fill ...........


In some places like California there are very stringent code
requirements for filling in pools. It's a *very* expensive
proposition.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar * * * * * "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/* * * * * * * Shpx gur PQN. * * * * * * * *|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Closing the pool, especially given the stated economics, sounds like a
foolish move to me. I once was president of a condo association and
we had a former board member who wanted to do the same thing with the
association pool which served 120 units. At the time, about 15 years
ago, it cost us about $16K a season to run it, which included a
lifeguard. Even though I personally rarely used the pool, my thougth
was that the $130 a year out of my pocket was small compared to the
potential loss in resale value. I could only imagine telling a
prospective buyer that we have a pool, but it's closed because we
can't afford to run it. Plus, I'm not sure it's legal or would
survive a court challenge. Unit owners bought their units with
rights to the ammenities and I'm not sure you can just take a major
one away.

In this case, I would expect that they would save a lot more than
going from $100K down to $50K by closing the pool. However, using
the 50K savings, I'd divide that by the number of homes served.
Since this is supposed to be a municipality, it would seem likely that
it comes out to a small amount per home. Instead of closing it,
perhaps a better solution would be to charge a seasonal fee for those
that actual use it to offset some or all of the cost.

Bryce February 28th 09 04:34 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
wrote:

On Feb 26, 7:57*pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article
, bob
haller wrote:

if re use isnt part of plan just jackhammer big hole in bottom so
water cant accumulate, fill the now junk pool with fill ...........


In some places like California there are very stringent code
requirements for filling in pools. It's a *very* expensive
proposition.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar * * * * * "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Gary Player. |
|
http://www.malch.com/* * * * * * * Shpx gur PQN. * * * * * * * *|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Closing the pool, especially given the stated economics, sounds like a
foolish move to me. I once was president of a condo association and
we had a former board member who wanted to do the same thing with the
association pool which served 120 units. At the time, about 15 years
ago, it cost us about $16K a season to run it, which included a
lifeguard. Even though I personally rarely used the pool, my thougth
was that the $130 a year out of my pocket was small compared to the
potential loss in resale value. I could only imagine telling a
prospective buyer that we have a pool, but it's closed because we
can't afford to run it. Plus, I'm not sure it's legal or would
survive a court challenge. Unit owners bought their units with
rights to the ammenities and I'm not sure you can just take a major
one away.

In this case, I would expect that they would save a lot more than
going from $100K down to $50K by closing the pool. However, using
the 50K savings, I'd divide that by the number of homes served.
Since this is supposed to be a municipality, it would seem likely that
it comes out to a small amount per home. Instead of closing it,
perhaps a better solution would be to charge a seasonal fee for those
that actual use it to offset some or all of the cost.


I'm the original poster. Thanks to all who responded!

Communities around here are struggling to balance their budgets.
That's what closing the pool is about. My home town said our
pool costs $600K/year and chose to keep it open; closed our budget
deficit by laying off 20% of our police officers and cutting back
remaining city employees to 35 hour weeks.

I don't use the pool, but I'm considering digging a moat around
my house.

SMS February 28th 09 04:58 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
Malcolm Hoar wrote:
In article , bob haller wrote:

if re use isnt part of plan just jackhammer big hole in bottom so
water cant accumulate, fill the now junk pool with fill ...........


In some places like California there are very stringent code
requirements for filling in pools. It's a *very* expensive
proposition.


Yeah, we looked at filling in the pool in the house we bought, and would
have cost about $12,000. We opted to keep it, and resurface it, even
though that cost more, not to mention the electricity for the pump.

pool guy March 11th 09 04:47 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 25, 6:49*pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipalswimmingpoolthis summer
to save money. *They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. *What needs to be done to mothball apool?


I would cover the pool. Looploc can make a cover that big. You will
still have to run the pump for a few hours a day to keep the algae at
bay. That would mean you would have to treat the pool with chems and
clean the filter from time to time.

If you do not treat the water it will turn into a mess and would raise
the costs to open it next year. I have seen many pools "put to sleep"
and the result is not good. the PH level of untreated water tends to
pit the plaster and the algae roots embed deep into the pores of the
plaster making it a pain to remove. You can not leave a pool empty. If
you have a high water table it can float out of the ground like a boat
( they made boats out of concrete in WWII that took supplies across
the Atlantic FYI) . Pool plaster is designed to remain wet and takes a
few years to fully set.When plastering a pool as soon as the last
trowel of plaster is put on a pool they fill the pool asap. leaving a
pool empty can cause the plaster to come off the pool too. For more
info visit the worlds first online community for pool owners
http://community.poolcenter.com/
Myles McMorrow.

JIMMIE March 11th 09 09:30 PM

Mothballing a swimming pool
 
On Feb 25, 6:49*pm, Bryce wrote:
Neighboring community announced they will not be
opening their municipal swimming pool this summer
to save money. *They say it costs $100,000 to
operate for the season, but they must spend $50K
to mothball it while it's idle, so only $50K saved.

Wow. *What needs to be done to mothball a pool?



Really, what kind of revenue does the pool take in. Is it a loser? I
doubt if the economy will effect the use of the pool that much. If
anything people tend to use things like this more during bad economic
times. Instead of taking vacations or going to the movies they go to
the pool.

Jimmie


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