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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I needone?

HI group,

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. There is no subfloor, however. My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?

This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.

Thanks in advance to this very generous group!
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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do Ineed one?

On 2/9/2009 5:21 PM Dairy Godmother spake thus:

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it.


What do you mean, "as many timea as it can take"? Are the floorboards
too thin? Sounds as if you just don't want that old floor anymore.
Floorboards can "take" an arbitrary number of refinishings. They don't
wear out.

There is no subfloor, however.


Are you sure? You say you can see through cracks in the floor, so this
may be the case, but it sounds weird. Houses have been built with
subfloors since forever.

My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?


If the existing floor is structurally sound and reasonably flat, then
you can use it as a subfloor.

Or just a new floor without a subfloor?


Nope.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair
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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I need one?

Dairy Godmother wrote:
HI group,

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. There is no subfloor, however. My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?

This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.

Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


Consider laminate flooring with a sound dampening underlayment. It can be
easily installed over your existing floor. Squeaks and "mushiness" should,
of course, be dealt with while you can access both sides of the floor.


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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I need one?


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
What do you mean, "as many timea as it can take"? Are the floorboards too
thin? Sounds as if you just don't want that old floor anymore. Floorboards
can "take" an arbitrary number of refinishings. They don't wear out.

There is no subfloor, however.


Are you sure? You say you can see through cracks in the floor, so this may
be the case, but it sounds weird. Houses have been built with subfloors
since forever.


My house was built in 1916 and there is no subfloors.

We got to the point where we thought another sanding and we'd be in the
basement. Probably wouldn't happen, but that floor had way too many bad
spots. I would never be able to run and skate across in my socks.

We just put a new wood floor on top of it and all's been well so far.

BR


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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do Ineed one?

HeyBub wrote:
Dairy Godmother wrote:
HI group,

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. There is no subfloor, however. My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?

This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.

Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


Consider laminate flooring with a sound dampening underlayment. It can be
easily installed over your existing floor. Squeaks and "mushiness" should,
of course, be dealt with while you can access both sides of the floor.


Laminate is UGLY, doubly so in an older house- it just looks WRONG.
Can't say for sure without seeing it, but old floor would probably work
fine as a subfloor. Fix the squeaks and any mushy spots, and shop around
for a deal on real hardwood, preferably something narrow to fit with the
age of the house. I find it hard to believe there is NO subfloor, unless
the place had an abandoned remodel. House of that vintage would usually
have 1x4 or 1x6 plank, nailed at 45 degrees to the joists. OP, where are
you? There were different practices in different areas.

--
aem sends...


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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I needone?

On Feb 9, 8:37*pm, aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Dairy Godmother wrote:
HI group,


I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. *They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). *Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. *There is no subfloor, however. *My question is: *could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?


This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. *Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.


Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


Consider laminate flooring with a sound dampening underlayment. It can be
easily installed over your existing floor. Squeaks and "mushiness" should,
of course, be dealt with while you can access both sides of the floor.


Laminate is UGLY, doubly so in an older house- it just looks WRONG.
Can't say for sure without seeing it, but old floor would probably work
fine as a subfloor. Fix the squeaks and any mushy spots, and shop around
for a deal on real hardwood, preferably something narrow to fit with the
age of the house. I find it hard to believe there is NO subfloor, unless
the place had an abandoned remodel. House of that vintage would usually
have 1x4 or 1x6 plank, nailed at 45 degrees to the joists. OP, where are
you? There were different practices in different areas.

--
aem sends...


Most old houses with oak floors have subfloors; usually 1x4 at 45
deg.........

but all vintages of houses were built w/o subfloors.

My house (1930) has oak flooring & 1x4 subfloor but my next door
neighbor's house (1952) has oak flooring and NO subfloor.
It is currently owned by the son of the original owner...so no
remodel.

One issue with using the old floor as the subfloor.....not at 45 to
the joists (which is a minor nit)

OP- depends on your budget.....

either use the old floor as a subfloor or

remove old floor, add new subfloor (plywood not OSB) and install a
real wood floor.....laminate sucks.

A thicker (3/4") solid wood floor would most likely be way cheaper
than the second option of adding a subfloor.

You bought a period, "charm" home, don't put in laminate and ruin the
look.

A new floor w/o a subfloor would be a bad idea, why tear up the old
would floor & not replace it...either use it as a subfloor or tear up
and install a proper subfloor.

I wonder how the floor installer handled the wall / floor interface
condition? Wood floor goes under wall sills?


cheers
Bob

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On Feb 9, 8:21�pm, Dairy Godmother wrote:
HI group,

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. �They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). �Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. �There is no subfloor, however. �My question is: �could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?

This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. �Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.

Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


You have a miriad of choices if your floor joists are sturdy. if they
aren't, you MUST shore them up to the point they ARE sturdy by either
adding more joists nest to them, or a beam under them.

Assuming your floor joists are sturdy, you can replace the boards that
are weak and mushy if you can get the proper height (thickness). Then
you can decide what floor covering you want.

Once you decide whether it is going to be carpet, laminate, tile or
whatever, then you can decide what is best for a sub-floor. When
deciding, take in consideration of the height of the thresholds and
the transitions you'll need to make.

Hank

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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I needone?

On Feb 9, 7:21*pm, Dairy Godmother wrote:
HI group,

I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. *They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). *Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. *There is no subfloor, however. *My question is: *could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?

This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. *Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.

Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


Get a pro out to tell you if it has been resanded to many times a bid
a fix of issues. But it probably hasnt been sanded to thin. If joists
are weak, sister on another one, if a few planks are week I braced
mine underneath with plywood. Old floors were thick, mine are 3/4 oak
with no subfloor and can take many sandings. You can go over the old
one but you will save thousands by keeping what you have. A weak plank
may have a hidden knot underneath, so support it from underneath. A
good sanding and 3-6 coats, a few repairs, and it will be great.
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On Feb 9, 8:21*pm, Dairy Godmother wrote:
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?


That'd work... Just stretch the carpet across the open joists. It'll
be fine.
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On Feb 10, 3:37*am, BobK207 wrote:
I wonder how the floor installer handled the wall / *floor interface
condition? * Wood floor goes under wall sills?


The builder laid down the floor boards over the open joists, then
built the walls on top just like any other construction of the time.


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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I needone?

On Feb 10, 12:51*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:21 pm, Dairy Godmother wrote:



HI group,


I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. There is no subfloor, however. My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?


This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.


Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


You have a miriad of choices if your floor joists are sturdy. if they
aren't, you MUST shore them up to the point they ARE sturdy by either
adding more joists nest to them, or a beam under them.

Assuming your floor joists are sturdy, you can replace the boards that
are weak and mushy if you can get the proper height (thickness). Then
you can decide what floor covering you want.

Once you decide whether it is going to be carpet, laminate, tile or
whatever, then you can decide what is best for a sub-floor. When
deciding, take in consideration of the height of the thresholds and
the transitions you'll need to make.

Hank


I'm pretty sure the OP is considering a new wood floor...tile,
laminate & carpet doesn't seem like what she would choose considering
the type of house she bought.

cheers
Bob
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On Feb 10, 6:02*am, wrote:
On Feb 10, 3:37*am, BobK207 wrote:

I wonder how the floor installer handled the wall / *floor interface
condition? * Wood floor goes under wall sills?


The builder laid down the floor boards over the open joists, then
built the walls on top just like any other construction of the time.


That's what I figured but he "forgot" the 45 deg 1x4 subfloor, an
important feature in raised foundation homes....I wonder what else he
skimped on?

cheers
Bob

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Default Want to replace wood floors but don't have a subfloor. Do I need one?

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:27:45 -0800 (PST), BobK207
wrote:

On Feb 10, 6:02*am, wrote:
On Feb 10, 3:37*am, BobK207 wrote:

I wonder how the floor installer handled the wall / *floor interface
condition? * Wood floor goes under wall sills?


The builder laid down the floor boards over the open joists, then
built the walls on top just like any other construction of the time.


That's what I figured but he "forgot" the 45 deg 1x4 subfloor, an
important feature in raised foundation homes....I wonder what else he
skimped on?

cheers
Bob


What does the 45 degree mean? (I understand 1x4). Inquiring but
ignorant mind wants to know...g




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What do you mean, "as many timea as it can take"? Are the floorboards too
thin? Sounds as if you just don't want that old floor anymore. Floorboards
can "take" an arbitrary number of refinishings. They don't wear out.


There is no subfloor, however.


Are you sure? You say you can see through cracks in the floor, so this may
be the case, but it sounds weird. Houses have been built with subfloors
since forever.


My house was built in 1916 and there is no subfloors.

We got to the point where we thought another sanding and we'd be in the
basement. Probably wouldn't happen, but that floor had way too many bad
spots. I would never be able to run and skate across in my socks.

We just put a new wood floor on top of it and all's been well so far.

BR



Thanks, BR. My situation exactly. There is definitely no subfloor,
and it visually does not need refinishing -- we'd love to keep it but
seemes silly to try and reinforce it and fill it from below. And
would love to go sock skating too -- have a new baby and just cant
imagine the little guy cruising around the old floor with splinters,
ets.
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On Feb 9, 11:37 pm, aemeijers wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
DairyGodmotherwrote:
HI group,


I bought a house built in 1925 which has oak floors. They are not in
the best shape, with cracks and weak spots (funny the home inspection
didnt really call it out as a problem). Additionally, it has been
refinished as many times as it can take so we are going to replace
it. There is no subfloor, however. My question is: could you have
the new floor installed right on top of the old floor (making it
become the subfloor) or would you just have both installed brand new?
Or just a new floor without a subfloor?


This is for two rooms on the ground floor that is over a basement.
Currently we hear the boiler and see through cracks, so I'd like
something very sound and as sealed as possible. Not married to any
particular type of wood so if one type is better I'd love to hear
about that too.


Thanks in advance to this very generous group!


Consider laminate flooring with a sound dampening underlayment. It can be
easily installed over your existing floor. Squeaks and "mushiness" should,
of course, be dealt with while you can access both sides of the floor.


Laminate is UGLY, doubly so in an older house- it just looks WRONG.
Can't say for sure without seeing it, but old floor would probably work
fine as a subfloor. Fix the squeaks and any mushy spots, and shop around
for a deal on real hardwood, preferably something narrow to fit with the
age of the house. I find it hard to believe there is NO subfloor, unless
the place had an abandoned remodel. House of that vintage would usually
have 1x4 or 1x6 plank, nailed at 45 degrees to the joists. OP, where are
you? There were different practices in different areas.

--
aem sends...


i dont like laminate either - though it technicaaly would solve the
problem. there is definitely no subfloor. we are in stamford, ct and
its a 2-story bungalow-type (thats what we would have called it in
california - i assume same here). it seems bizarre to me to be
walking on hardwood floor planks with cracks to the basement. i think
in summer when we bought it the cracks werent as apparent due to more
moistue. and like i said the inspector didnt call out any structural
problem i just dont trust it long-term now that i've lived here for 8
months and have a baby jusy jonesing to crawl in 3-4 months.
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Get a pro out to tell you if it has been resanded to many times a bid
a fix of issues. But it probably hasnt been sanded to thin.


a contractor i trust said they are too thin, and though i obviosly
dont know about these things, my gut agrees.

If joists are weak, sister on another one, if a few planks are week I
braced
mine underneath with plywood.


thats what DH has been doing - i think the joists are fine.

Old floors were thick, mine are 3/4 oak
with no subfloor and can take many sandings.


I dont think these were 3/4 - i'm almost sure thinner.

You can go over the old
one but you will save thousands by keeping what you have. A weak plank
may have a hidden knot underneath, so support it from underneath. A
good sanding and 3-6 coats, a few repairs, and it will be great.


definitely a thought - we'd rather save money obviously and put it
toward the heating system. if we could *confidently* reinforce the
planks *and* fill and smooth all cracks i'd be happy keeping old
floor. Sounds like not having a subfloor is not a huge deal on its own
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On Feb 12, 9:12*am, Dairy Godmother wrote:
Get a pro out to tell you if it has been resanded to many times a bid
a fix of issues. But it probably hasnt been sanded to thin.


a contractor i trust said they are too thin, and though i obviosly
dont know about these things, my gut agrees.

If joists are weak, sister on another one, if a few planks are week I
braced

mine underneath with plywood.


thats what DH has been doing - i think the joists are fine.

Old floors were thick, mine are 3/4 oak

with no subfloor and can take many sandings.


I dont think these were 3/4 - i'm almost sure thinner.

You can go over the old

one but you will save thousands by keeping what you have. A weak plank
may have a hidden knot underneath, so support it from underneath. A
good sanding and 3-6 coats, a few repairs, and it will be great.


definitely a thought - we'd rather save money obviously and put it
toward the heating system. *if we could *confidently* reinforce the
planks *and* fill and smooth all cracks i'd be happy keeping old
floor. *Sounds like not having a subfloor is not a huge deal on its own


Filling the cracks is problematic for the same reason that they appear/
disappear in winter/summer - the wood expands and contracts with
temperature and humidity, which would tend to loosen the crack filler
and then it looks worse than when you started. It sounds like the
quality solution would be to install a new layer of hardwood over the
old. The things I would worry about with that are (1) having to re-do
doors, doorjambs, baseboard, etc. because of the new thickness being
added, (2) whether there is a problem driving the flooring nails
through that old oak - I assume a pro would just be able to set his
airgun up a notch or two for that (3) whether flaws in the old
flooring would telegraph through to the new - if there is any
unevenness. Especially since you would be installing the new
floorboards parallel to the old (perpendicular to the joists). You
might want to discuss these with prospective installers and ask for
references from past customers that had the exact same situation.
(I've never seen a place with no subfloor except in a beach house, but
it may be more common in your area.) It won't be cheap but it will be
permanent and will add value to the home. Some people do install
hardwood flooring as a DIY project to save money, but it's pretty
ambitious. -- H
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On Feb 12, 10:00*am, Dairy Godmother wrote:

Thanks, BR. *Mysituationexactly. *There is definitely no subfloor,
and it visually does not need refinishing -- we'd love to keep it but
seemes silly to try and reinforce it and fill it from below. *And
would love to go sock skating too -- have a new baby and just cant
imagine the little guy cruising around the old floor with splinters,
ets.


sounds good

mk5000

"you can be all you want in front of me
you can pout
you can smile
you don't have to be perfect "--robin thicke, you;re my baby

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