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#1
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a
plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! .. |
#2
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman
wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . You don't have much to do. Do you? |
#3
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote:
OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? |
#4
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
marlboroman wrote:
Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . The wide blade is the neutral, the narrow blade is the hot. Some appliances may have the neutral attached to the metal chassis parts inside. Did I hear "shock hazard"? I used to work with an idiot who would cut the ground pin off plugs. The hot wire is switched. If you grind down the neutral and plug it into the hot side, the item will be energized when the switch is off. TDD |
#5
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl
wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? What do they mean by double insulated? One insulation is the plastic case. Maybe the other one is figurative, that they do the rest of the wiring as if it were a metal case? |
#6
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl
wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? Or maybe the exposed metal chuck and drill bit are somehow connected to the motor within? Ya think? Sheesh |
#8
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700, marlboroman wrote:
Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . Short Answer: Lawyers and (product) Insurance. Too Much Information (TMI) answer: NEMA, National Electrical Manufacturing Association sets the standards for all US Electrical plugs and receptacles. Search for a Wikipedia write ups on NEMA standards. There are links at the bottom of the Wikipedia to NEMA configuration charts. Your plugs are NEMA 1-15 type plugs. The National Fire Protection Association publishes the National Electrical Code. The NFPA has adapted the NEMA standard as part of its new building code for Electrical Safety. Many states adopt the NFPA electrical code standards in their building code and statutes for enforcement of such building codes. Underwriters Laboratories, inc, the testing agency for Insurance companies that issue policies against product liability, adopts the National Electrical Code (which includes the NEMA standards) as part of its product safety testing and check list. Thus, in order to purchase product liability insurance a maker of consumer products, like a homeowner's hand drill, needs to submit the product to UL for safety testing. UL will give its blessing only provided ...... (yada, yada, yada) Thus the products you buy will have a narrow (hot or black wire) and a wide blade (neutral or White wire indicated by the "W" on the NEMA 1-15 standard.) Even if the general public safety intent and need for the narrow / wide blade makes no difference in a specific manufacturer's product. |
#9
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Claude Hopper wrote:
marlboroman wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . I have snapped many of these wide blades down to size with big dikes because they would not fit into the older extension cords. Snapped off a few ground prongs too. Now, 20 years later things are seeming to be catching up to new safety plugs. I still see some appliances being sold with only 2 prongs though, why is that? It would have been better to have redesigned the plug completely instead of just widening a prong and adding a prong. A completely different plug would have been almost impossible to modify to fit the old styles and less safety bypasses would have been done. I keep several adapters in my tool box. They're very useful when I have to get power at an old outlet. TDD |
#10
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
The "polarized" plug is for extra user safety. AC outlets have
polarity-specific sockets because some devices can easily become dangerous if the polarized device is plugged in backwards. This happens when the switch or fuse inside the appliance is designed to disconnect only the "hot" and not the "neutral" wire when the device is switched off because it is cheaper than switches that disconnect both wires. The "neutral" wire is typically connected to ground at the main panel, so it is safer to use the switch to open the "hot" wire. The device could still be "hot" even when the switch is off. Without a polarized plug, you can't tell which wire the switch will disconnect and may receive a shocking surprise! In theory, safe devices are designed to keep a user from touching either the hot or the neutral. designers know which wires will be "hot" inside the device, they can take extra precautions to make sure they cannot break apart and electrify anything a user can touch. A broken "hot" wire can electrocute a user. Therefore, many appliances now have a polarized plug so the switch always disconnects the "hot" side. A so-called "double-insulated" (IEC Class II) device may have a non-polarized plug because the same safe design has been made for BOTH conductors No single internal fault would be likely to cause an electrocution hazard. Furthermore, even with a polarized plug, a single internal fault can be deadly in an ordinary appliance. The third prong (ground) can save your life if there is an internal fault of the hot touching exposed metal, and a GFCI can save your life if there is an internal fault of the neutral to exposed metal (where you could otherwise become the missing "neutral" connection to ground as you are electrocuted). You are an ignorant fool to grind down the polarized plug. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "marlboroman" wrote in message ... Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! .. |
#11
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Some people learn by reading. Some people learn by being taught. Others just
have to go **** on the electric fence themselves. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . The hot wire is switched. If you grind down the neutral and plug it into the hot side, the item will be energized when the switch is off. TDD |
#12
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
The rest of the time, you can have the safety of having a three wire
grounded device. I'm with you, I do carry the three to two "cheaters". -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... I keep several adapters in my tool box. They're very useful when I have to get power at an old outlet. TDD |
#13
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a
plug that does not have a ground? Safety? The wide terminal is the neutral, and it ensures you are switching the "hot" lead and not the neutral. It's also one more level of protection in case the tool shorts out inside. Is the only reason to **** off the user particularly those of us who are older While you may have grown up with the old two prong plugs, that doesn't mean they were safe. The wide prong and a third ground terminal were added for a reason. Just like open knife switches, knob and tube wiring, and other hazards were eventually replaced with safer alternatives. If it ****es you off to only be able to insert the plug into a socket one way, maybe you shouldn't be using the tool in the first place... I, for one, appreciate the extra safety measures. There are more important things to worry about than the orientation of a plug. In fact, when given a choice, I always choose the tool or other fixture that has a third ground terminal. Better safe, than sorry... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though! How much time does it take you to defeat the built-in safety measure compared to just flipping the plug over? The odds are you'll never have a problem with your modifications, but that one time when your tool shorts out or you're changing a bit out on a wet lawn, your family members may regret your decision to modify the plug... And how will you feel if your grandchild comes over to use your tools someday and gets electrocuted because you defeated one of the safety features? Anthony |
#14
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Some people learn by reading. Some people learn by being taught. Others just have to go **** on the electric fence themselves. A famous man once wrote something to the effect: "Experience is a fools best teacher." My father taught us how to do electrical wiring when we were kids on the farm. I have experienced shock therapy many times over the years. I would hope others could learn from my experience. TDD |
#15
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
"Claude Hopper" wrote in message ... marlboroman wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . I have snapped many of these wide blades down to size with big dikes because they would not fit into the older extension cords. Snapped off a few ground prongs too. Now, 20 years later things are seeming to be catching up to new safety plugs. I still see some appliances being sold with only 2 prongs though, why is that? It would have been better to have redesigned the plug completely instead of just widening a prong and adding a prong. A completely different plug would have been almost impossible to modify to fit the old styles and less safety bypasses would have been done. Except for the need for "upward compatibility". How would you like to move to a new house, and have nothing plug in? |
#16
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
marlboroman wrote:
My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! It figures someone who smokes would think that's a good idea.... |
#17
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
"Claude Hopper" wrote in message news Phil Again wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700, marlboroman wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . Short Answer: Lawyers and (product) Insurance. Too Much Information (TMI) answer: NEMA, National Electrical Manufacturing Association sets the standards for all US Electrical plugs and receptacles. Search for a Wikipedia write ups on NEMA standards. There are links at the bottom of the Wikipedia to NEMA configuration charts. Your plugs are NEMA 1-15 type plugs. The National Fire Protection Association publishes the National Electrical Code. The NFPA has adapted the NEMA standard as part of its new building code for Electrical Safety. Many states adopt the NFPA electrical code standards in their building code and statutes for enforcement of such building codes. Underwriters Laboratories, inc, the testing agency for Insurance companies that issue policies against product liability, adopts the National Electrical Code (which includes the NEMA standards) as part of its product safety testing and check list. Thus, in order to purchase product liability insurance a maker of consumer products, like a homeowner's hand drill, needs to submit the product to UL for safety testing. UL will give its blessing only provided ...... (yada, yada, yada) Thus the products you buy will have a narrow (hot or black wire) and a wide blade (neutral or White wire indicated by the "W" on the NEMA 1-15 standard.) Even if the general public safety intent and need for the narrow / wide blade makes no difference in a specific manufacturer's product. This is called bureaucratic bull****. While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. |
#18
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Bryce writes:
Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. I actually own an older Dremel tool that has a plastic coupling to isolate the output shaft. The motor has a pair of bearings, and the output shaft has another pair of bearings. The two shafts are in line but don't touch, and a splined plastic coupling connects them. It works fine for transmitting rotation, but it makes the tool almost unusable for routing and some grinding and milling operations. The output shaft is just a short stub, and the bearings that hold it are only half an inch apart. So any side load on the cutting tool has plenty of leverage in applying force to those bearings, which are only held by the plastic housing. The result is lots of chatter. I notice that all of the more recent Dremel tools I've looked inside have a single shaft from chuck all the way back to the rear end of the motor. So there are only 2 bearings, and the chuck is better at withstanding side loads. But the newer Dremels are *still* double insulated. I think they do it with insulation between the steel stampings that make up the armature magnetics and the motor shaft. So if the insulation on the armature wire wears through and touches the steel, the armature could become "hot" but the shaft would still be isolated. Dave |
#19
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
TD wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote in : marlboroman wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . The wide blade is the neutral, the narrow blade is the hot. Some appliances may have the neutral attached to the metal chassis parts inside. Did I hear "shock hazard"? I used to work with an idiot who would cut the ground pin off plugs. The hot wire is switched. If you grind down the neutral and plug it into the hot side, the item will be energized when the switch is off. TDD The companies use it in case you need an extension cord. Then you'll be forced to buy an extension cord with the wide blade. I'm not going to call you names but that's the silliest thing I've seen posted in a while. TDD |
#20
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Phil Again wrote:
Short Answer: Lawyers and (product) Insurance. Too Much Information (TMI) answer: NEMA, National Electrical Manufacturing Association sets the standards for all US Electrical plugs and receptacles. Search for a Wikipedia write ups on NEMA standards. There are links at the bottom of the Wikipedia to NEMA configuration charts. Your plugs are NEMA 1-15 type plugs. The National Fire Protection Association publishes the National Electrical Code. The NFPA has adapted the NEMA standard as part of its new building code for Electrical Safety. Many states adopt the NFPA electrical code standards in their building code and statutes for enforcement of such building codes. Underwriters Laboratories, inc, the testing agency for Insurance companies that issue policies against product liability, adopts the National Electrical Code (which includes the NEMA standards) as part of its product safety testing and check list. Thus, in order to purchase product liability insurance a maker of consumer products, like a homeowner's hand drill, needs to submit the product to UL for safety testing. UL will give its blessing only provided ...... (yada, yada, yada) Thus the products you buy will have a narrow (hot or black wire) and a wide blade (neutral or White wire indicated by the "W" on the NEMA 1-15 standard.) Even if the general public safety intent and need for the narrow / wide blade makes no difference in a specific manufacturer's product. The NEC is written by panels that include many interests - manufacturers, engineers, contractors, labor, affected industries. UL and the NEC try to be compatible (but I can think of at least one place they conflict). As far as I know, the NEC has no standards for receptacle configurations except RVs and trailer parks. UL develops standards for products from different panels of knowledgeable people. It is independent from the NFPA and NEC, but people involved also want UL standards and the NEC to not conflict. UL does not adopt the NEC. UL standards are for product manufacturing. The NEC is primarily an installation standard. The NEC has limited product design requirements. Equipment installed must be "approved". Approval is strictly the decision of the "authority having jurisdiction" which is typically a state or municipality. The AHJ usually wants products to be "UL listed" (or maybe listed /labeled another reputable lab which probably tests to UL standards). NEMA is a manufacturers group. It sets a number of standards. The question is how those standards become requirements for equipment. NEMA receptacle configurations may be included in some UL standards, I don't know. UL could also just have performance and design standards, for example plugs must be polarized, with specific configuration selected by manufacturers. (NEMA categories for enclosures have been adopted by the NEC.) -- bud-- |
#21
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT"
wrote: [snip] While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? |
#22
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:44:32 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote: In article , wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:20 -0400, Bryce wrote: wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? Or maybe the exposed metal chuck and drill bit are somehow connected to the motor within? Ya think? Sheesh Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3873863.html How well does it work submerged? You bet your life! Submerged, it isn't going to make one bit of difference which way the plug is inserted in the outlet. Wet, okay Mr. Picky? |
#23
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
In article , wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:20 -0400, Bryce wrote: wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? Or maybe the exposed metal chuck and drill bit are somehow connected to the motor within? Ya think? Sheesh Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3873863.html How well does it work submerged? You bet your life! Submerged, it isn't going to make one bit of difference which way the plug is inserted in the outlet. |
#24
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Dave Martindale wrote:
Bryce writes: Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. I actually own an older Dremel tool that has a plastic coupling to isolate the output shaft. The motor has a pair of bearings, and the output shaft has another pair of bearings. The two shafts are in line but don't touch, and a splined plastic coupling connects them. It works fine for transmitting rotation, but it makes the tool almost unusable for routing and some grinding and milling operations. The output shaft is just a short stub, and the bearings that hold it are only half an inch apart. So any side load on the cutting tool has plenty of leverage in applying force to those bearings, which are only held by the plastic housing. The result is lots of chatter. I suppose that's why we end up buying the new improved model! |
#25
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
The sky is falling down! We must tell the king!
(I spend more time scrolling through idiot bottom posted messages than I do on reversing plugs.) -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Gary H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT" wrote: [snip] While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? |
#26
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Gary H wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT" wrote: [snip] While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? Let's try my math: It takes me less than a minute grab the bottle of White-Out and put a white dot on a black plug - or a magic marker if the plug is white. Since all the receptacles in my house are installed the same way, all the plugs go in the same way - "dot up". BTW - do you really plug things in 10 times a day on average? And that's just 2 pronged "things". I could go days without plugging a single 2 pronged device in. It would take an awful lot of "make up" plug-ins to average 10 if you miss a day or two here and there. |
#27
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
"Gary H" wrote in message Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. Kist curious, what do you plug in ten times a day. I bet I don't change more than one plug in a week. Maybe I can retire early with that 10 hours a year savings. |
#28
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , wrote: On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:44:32 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:20 -0400, Bryce wrote: Snip http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3873863.html How well does it work submerged? You bet your life! Submerged, it isn't going to make one bit of difference which way the plug is inserted in the outlet. Wet, okay Mr. Picky? If you meant "wet" why did you write "submerged"? "Submerged" is so much more dramatic than "wet". |
#29
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
In article , wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:44:32 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:20 -0400, Bryce wrote: wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? Or maybe the exposed metal chuck and drill bit are somehow connected to the motor within? Ya think? Sheesh Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3873863.html How well does it work submerged? You bet your life! Submerged, it isn't going to make one bit of difference which way the plug is inserted in the outlet. Wet, okay Mr. Picky? If you meant "wet" why did you write "submerged"? |
#30
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life
wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? Polarized plugs is a good idea, but making both sides of the plug feel the same was a mistake. There should be a tab or something so you can feel the right way without all the trial and error. |
#31
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 01:56:55 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote: In article , wrote: On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:44:32 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote: In article , wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:36:20 -0400, Bryce wrote: wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:48:21 -0700, Donna Ohl wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman wrote: OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. Maybe they want the hot and neutral to be determinate just to protect against lawsuits? Or, maybe it's a UL standard even for plastic-housed appliances? Or maybe the exposed metal chuck and drill bit are somehow connected to the motor within? Ya think? Sheesh Here's a patent describing an insulated coupling that electrically isolates the chuck from the motor in a double insulated (class 2) power tool. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3873863.html How well does it work submerged? You bet your life! Submerged, it isn't going to make one bit of difference which way the plug is inserted in the outlet. Wet, okay Mr. Picky? If you meant "wet" why did you write "submerged"? Just to upset your delicate balance. |
#32
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
Let's see, "Stormin Mormon" writes: The sky is falling down! We must tell the king! (I spend more time scrolling through idiot bottom posted messages than I do on reversing plugs.) how do I respond to -- Christopher A. Young this idiot... Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org Oh, I know, I'll put "Gary H" wrote in message ... On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT" wrote: my response where ever [snip] the hell, I feel While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as like stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really because causes it doesn't matter what anyone no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. else is But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. doing. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, What I do is when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? right and everyone else is an idiot. |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:24:48 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: The sky is falling down! We must tell the king! (I spend more time scrolling through idiot bottom posted messages than I do on reversing plugs. and stupidly believing that one problem (posting location), automatically negates another problem (reversing plugs). ) The idiots aren't the ones bottom-posting. The idiots aren't the ones top-posting. The idiots are the ones calling others idiots because of their posting location, while simultaneously creating a worse problem (posting your sig in the wrong place, interfering with quoting and replies). "So, the 16-ton weight falling on you today means the 9-ton weight falling on you last week didn't hurt at all. I'm dropping ONLY the 9-ton weight, because that one doesn't hurt :-)" |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:29:55 -0400, DerbyDad03
wrote: Gary H wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT" wrote: [snip] While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? Let's try my math: It takes me less than a minute grab the bottle of White-Out and put a white dot on a black plug - or a magic marker if the plug is white. Don't forget to multiply that time by the number of plugs you do this to. Since all the receptacles in my house are installed the same way, all the plugs go in the same way - "dot up". You'd still have to LOOK at the plugs, possibly taking the time to turn on a light. Even if you could feel the dots, it'd still take time to feel them, turning the plug around if necessary. And (again, since too many ignore it) Don't forget to multiply that time by the number of plugs you do this to. BTW, My last two cars have had 2-edged (rotationally symmetrical) keys, so you don't have to waste time turning the key around to use it. BTW - do you really plug things in 10 times a day on average? And that's just 2 pronged "things". I could go days without plugging a single 2 pronged device in. It would take an awful lot of "make up" plug-ins to average 10 if you miss a day or two here and there. I guess I plug in 2-prong (polarized) plugs about that often (an average of 10 times a day). -- 58 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 22:43:26 -0500, Bert Byfield
wrote: About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? Polarized plugs is a good idea, but making both sides of the plug feel the same was a mistake. There should be a tab or something so you can feel the right way without all the trial and error. Many polarized plugs have both the prongs the same where they come out of the body of the plug, then one gets smaller (corners cut off) and the other gets larger. You should be able to feel that. Of course, that still takes time (and don't forget to multiply by the number of plugs you insert). -- 58 days until the winter solstice celebration Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
marlboroman wrote:
Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? Because there is only one company that makes the plugs, and it's cheaper to make just one kind of plug and send it out to everyone than to make two kinds of plugs and keep track of who is buying what type of plug. |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
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#38
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Oct 28, 11:08*am, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:29:55 -0400, DerbyDad03 wrote: Gary H wrote: On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:51:10 -0400, "EXT" wrote: [snip] While this is true, it also true that manufacturers need to make products as stupid proof as possible. The cost of the plug is minimal, and really causes no inconvenience to the users, as you will get it right 50% of the time without even looking. But it'll seem more like 10% because of selective memory. Don't sweat over such minor stuff, when there is some serious stuff out there you really need to worry about. No worrying, but a bit of arithmetic: Can you turn a plug around in 2 seconds? That's an average of 1 second, since you have to turn it around half the time. Now, how many times do you plug things in? It it's just 10 times a day, that's 36524 times a year (based on average 365.24 days per year). That's over 10 hours a year. About 3 DAYS (and I mean REAL DAYS, 24 hours each) of your life wasted because of the unnecessary use of polarized plugs! Is that so minor now? Let's try my math: It takes me less than a minute grab the bottle of White-Out and put a white dot on a black plug - or a magic marker if the plug is white. Don't forget to multiply that time by the number of plugs you do this to. Since all the receptacles in my house are installed the same way, all the plugs go in the same way - "dot up". You'd still have to LOOK at the plugs, possibly taking the time to turn on a light. Even if you could feel the dots, it'd still take time to feel them, turning the plug around if necessary. And (again, since too many ignore it) Don't forget to multiply that time by the number of plugs you do this to. BTW, My last two *cars have had 2-edged (rotationally symmetrical) keys, so you don't have to waste time turning the key around to use it. BTW - do you really plug things in 10 times a day on average? And that's just 2 pronged "things". I could go days without plugging a single 2 pronged device in. It would take an awful lot of "make up" plug-ins to average 10 if you miss a day or two here and there. I guess I plug in 2-prong (polarized) plugs about that often (an average of 10 times a day). I guess I plug in 2-prong (polarized) plugs about that often (an average of 10 times a day). 'splain that please. |
#39
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Oct 28, 12:39*pm, wrote:
marlboroman wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? Because there is only one company that makes the plugs, and it's cheaper to make just one kind of plug and send it out to everyone than to make two kinds of plugs and keep track of who is buying what type of plug. Nice try... A quick scan of my office shows at least 5 different kinds of 2 prong plugs. Granted, some of the plugs are at least a few months old so that one company may have bought everyone out since then... I kid because I care. |
#40
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Why the wide prong on a plug?
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT), marlboroman
wrote: Has anyone ever figured out why they put one wide and one narrow on a plug that does not have a ground? OK, I understand that on a lamp it's a good idea, or the socket shell and bulb threads will be live if the hot side of the power line is connected to that part of the socket. But, lets say I have a all plastic cased electric power tool. (Like all of them made in the last decade or more). I'm holding plastic, which does not conduct electricity. It dont matter which side of the power line goes to which side of the motor on AC. What's the point of having that wide terminal? Is the only reason to **** off the user, particularly those of us who are older and dont have the best eyesight anymore. I cant see any other reason..... My grinder does a quick job of narrowing that wide prong though !!! . The wide blade is the neutral. The smaller blade is the hot side. It may not make a difference if the two are reversed, but not always. |
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