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Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd 08, 04:05 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 32
Default Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?

Is it common to solder copper pipes under a kitchen sink, or is it almost
universal to use compression connections there? If you found some already
soldered there, and wanted to put new connections in, would you use a torch
to remove the old ones, then use compression connections for the new ones?
Or what?

Especially if pipes come out of a concrete slab foundation, and only stick
up 2 or 3 inches, so there is not much excess pipe length to cut and start
over.
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  #2  
Old August 23rd 08, 07:01 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 930
Default Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?

On Aug 22, 8:05*pm, Anagram wrote:
Is it common to solder copper pipes under a kitchen sink, or is it almost
universal to use compression connections there? *If you found some already
soldered there, and wanted to put new connections in, would you use a torch
to remove the old ones, then use compression connections for the new ones? *
Or what?

Especially if pipes come out of a concrete slab foundation, and only stick
up 2 or 3 inches, so there is not much excess pipe length to cut and start
over.


Take it from an expert....you seem to be way over thinking this (like
I sometimes do)

How does your exsiting plumbing terminate?

If your existing plumbing is soldered & terminates with a threaded
fitting to which the angle stops are attached...just unscrew the old
angle stops & install new ones.

You can plumb your under sink connects just about anyway you want.

Dual outlet angle stops are available to service kitchen sink,
dishwasher & ice maker. Angle stops are hardly ever used so having
the dishwasher share with the sink hot water isn't a huge deal.

I'm not a huge fan of compression fittings but they're quick & easy.

Not being able to see your installation makes it difficult to
determine the best way to go. Some photos or a complete description
fo the existing condition would help.

If your plumbing comes out of the slab, I would not cut any tube
off. I'd use the existing fittings if I could get them to work.
Failing that, I'd sweat off whatever I had to & then use compression
fittings or Shark Bites.

cheers
Bob
  #3  
Old August 23rd 08, 09:37 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 4,505
Default Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?

On Aug 23, 2:01*am, BobK207 wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:05*pm, Anagram wrote:

Is it common to solder copper pipes under a kitchen sink, or is it almost
universal to use compression connections there? *If you found some already
soldered there, and wanted to put new connections in, would you use a torch
to remove the old ones, then use compression connections for the new ones? *
Or what?


Especially if pipes come out of a concrete slab foundation, and only stick
up 2 or 3 inches, so there is not much excess pipe length to cut and start
over.


Take it from an expert....you seem to be way over thinking this (like
I sometimes do)

How does your exsiting plumbing terminate?

If your existing plumbing is soldered & terminates with a threaded
fitting to which the angle stops are attached...just unscrew the old
angle stops & install new ones.

You can plumb your under sink connects just about anyway you want.

Dual outlet angle stops are available to service kitchen sink,
dishwasher & ice maker. *Angle stops are hardly ever used so having
the dishwasher share with the sink hot water isn't a huge deal.

I'm not a huge fan of compression fittings but they're quick & easy.

Not being able to see your installation makes it difficult to
determine the best way to go. *Some photos or a complete description
fo the existing condition would help.

If your plumbing comes out of the slab, I would not cut any tube
off. * I'd use the existing fittings if I could get them to work.
Failing that, I'd sweat off whatever I had to & then use compression
fittings or Shark Bites.

cheers
Bob


It's very common to solder copper pipes under kitchen sinks to do
plumbing up to the angle stops, re-route pipes, etc.
  #4  
Old August 23rd 08, 11:56 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 32
Default Under kitchen sink

Thanks for the answers. The pipes from the foundation are terminated
with seemingly-soldered adaptors to provide compression threads. One
chromed faucet pipe is stuck in one of those, with the compression nut
unscrewed. The other chromed faucet pipe has been removed by me (easily)
and replaced with a hose designed for connecting to the faucet, and is
now leak-free. Except I still might want to connect other stuff to it.

The lower end of that faucet hose has compression hardware built-in, to
connect directly to the compression threads mentioned above. Is that
kind of hose-end connection reusable? Or does the first-time compression
of it cause it to become significantly less reliable the 2nd time you
compress it? In other words, can you unscrew it, put a valve or tee or
something like that in between, then screw it back, and not expect it to
leak?

As for the stuck pipe, if I cut it and bend it, can I "unscrew" it,
causing it to become unstuck by lots of turning? Or is there a better
way to remove it? It seems like it has something inside catching on the
soldered compression adaptor. And I can't put a lot of force on it to
remove it, because anything I use as a fulcrum to get leverage, just
bends the floor of the under-sink cabinet.

I don't want to destroy the stuck pipe till I'm sure I know how to remove
it, because, presently, even though it has a very minor leak, it's
working, when I put the compression nut back on. And I have to turn off
all the water in the house to work on it, because there is presently no
stop valve there. So, if I cut it and bend it, to try to unscrew it,
we're stuck with no water till I finish the job.
  #5  
Old August 23rd 08, 04:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
EXT
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Posts: 1,642
Default Under kitchen sink


"Anagram" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the answers. The pipes from the foundation are terminated
with seemingly-soldered adaptors to provide compression threads. One
chromed faucet pipe is stuck in one of those, with the compression nut
unscrewed. The other chromed faucet pipe has been removed by me (easily)
and replaced with a hose designed for connecting to the faucet, and is
now leak-free. Except I still might want to connect other stuff to it.

The lower end of that faucet hose has compression hardware built-in, to
connect directly to the compression threads mentioned above. Is that
kind of hose-end connection reusable? Or does the first-time compression
of it cause it to become significantly less reliable the 2nd time you
compress it? In other words, can you unscrew it, put a valve or tee or
something like that in between, then screw it back, and not expect it to
leak?

As for the stuck pipe, if I cut it and bend it, can I "unscrew" it,
causing it to become unstuck by lots of turning? Or is there a better
way to remove it? It seems like it has something inside catching on the
soldered compression adaptor. And I can't put a lot of force on it to
remove it, because anything I use as a fulcrum to get leverage, just
bends the floor of the under-sink cabinet.

I don't want to destroy the stuck pipe till I'm sure I know how to remove
it, because, presently, even though it has a very minor leak, it's
working, when I put the compression nut back on. And I have to turn off
all the water in the house to work on it, because there is presently no
stop valve there. So, if I cut it and bend it, to try to unscrew it,
we're stuck with no water till I finish the job.


I am confused. It is important to know that compression fittings use a
different threading than threaded pipe fittings. Don't try to mix them or
you will destroy both sets of threads. If you are talking about compression
fittings that use a brass ring on the pipe, they usually cannot reliably be
reused, often leaking. This is why I don't like to use compression fittings
on standard copper pipe such as you have sticking out of the concrete
because the only cure for the crushed copper is to cut it back, which you
don't want to do. I would use only soldered fittings on the pipe with
conversion fittings to adapt to the supply tube and/or valves that you
should install.

  #6  
Old August 23rd 08, 06:11 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 32
Default Under kitchen sink

"EXT" wrote in
anews.com:

I am confused. It is important to know that compression fittings use a
different threading than threaded pipe fittings. Don't try to mix them


Right, for example a hose that connects a faucet to the water supply below
uses a threaded pipe (NPT) fitting on the faucet and a compression fitting on
the water supply. And that kind of compression fitting is different from the
kind that goes on bare copper pipe. So that's three different kinds of
fittings, two of which are compression.

or you will destroy both sets of threads. If you are talking about
compression fittings that use a brass ring on the pipe, they usually
cannot reliably be reused, often leaking. This is why I don't like to


What about the kind of compression fitting that doesn't use a brass ring
(ferule?) but just compresses the fitting directly against the pipe, with an
insert (of unclear purpose) in the pipe?

use compression fittings on standard copper pipe such as you have
sticking out of the concrete because the only cure for the crushed
copper is to cut it back, which you don't want to do. I would use only
soldered fittings on the pipe with conversion fittings to adapt to the
supply tube and/or valves that you should install.


And I've never soldered pipe before. The only soldering I have done is
electronic circuits, which is an entirely different kind of work. If I heat
the adaptor with a torch, do I then just lift it off the pipe? With a tool
such as pliers? How will I know when it's heated enough? Will the heat of
the pipe heat the pliers and burn my hand?

The main reason I have to remove one of the present soldered adaptors is that
the thin pipe to the faucet is stuck in that adapator, as if it had something
connected to the lower end which wouldn't fit through the adaptor, and there
is no easy way to apply enough force to remove it, because of the awkward
position.
  #7  
Old August 24th 08, 01:01 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 930
Default Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?

On Aug 23, 1:37*am, wrote:
On Aug 23, 2:01*am, BobK207 wrote:



On Aug 22, 8:05*pm, Anagram wrote:


Is it common to solder copper pipes under a kitchen sink, or is it almost
universal to use compression connections there? *If you found some already
soldered there, and wanted to put new connections in, would you use a torch
to remove the old ones, then use compression connections for the new ones? *
Or what?


Especially if pipes come out of a concrete slab foundation, and only stick
up 2 or 3 inches, so there is not much excess pipe length to cut and start
over.


Take it from an expert....you seem to be way over thinking this (like
I sometimes do)


How does your exsiting plumbing terminate?


If your existing plumbing is soldered & terminates with a threaded
fitting to which the angle stops are attached...just unscrew the old
angle stops & install new ones.


You can plumb your under sink connects just about anyway you want.


Dual outlet angle stops are available to service kitchen sink,
dishwasher & ice maker. *Angle stops are hardly ever used so having
the dishwasher share with the sink hot water isn't a huge deal.


I'm not a huge fan of compression fittings but they're quick & easy.


Not being able to see your installation makes it difficult to
determine the best way to go. *Some photos or a complete description
fo the existing condition would help.


If your plumbing comes out of the slab, I would not cut any tube
off. * I'd use the existing fittings if I could get them to work.
Failing that, I'd sweat off whatever I had to & then use compression
fittings or Shark Bites.


cheers
Bob


It's very common to solder copper pipes under kitchen sinks to do
plumbing up to the angle stops, re-route pipes, etc.


Yes, I agree with you, I do it all the time.

But from the OP's questions I'm getting the sense that he's not all
that experienced and the best bet for him is to "keep it simple".

  #8  
Old August 24th 08, 01:10 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 930
Default Under kitchen sink

On Aug 23, 10:11*am, Anagram wrote:
"EXT" wrote ctanews.com:

I am confused. It is important to know that compression fittings use a
different threading than threaded pipe fittings. Don't try to mix them


Right, for example a hose that connects a faucet to the water supply below
uses a threaded pipe (NPT) fitting on the faucet and a compression fitting on
the water supply. *And that kind of compression fitting is different from the
kind that goes on bare copper pipe. *So that's three different kinds of
fittings, two of which are compression.

or you will destroy both sets of threads. If you are talking about
compression fittings that use a brass ring on the pipe, they usually
cannot reliably be reused, often leaking. This is why I don't like to


What about the kind of compression fitting that doesn't use a brass ring
(ferule?) but just compresses the fitting directly against the pipe, with an
insert (of unclear purpose) in the pipe?

use compression fittings on standard copper pipe such as you have
sticking out of the concrete because the only cure for the crushed
copper is to cut it back, which you don't want to do. I would use only
soldered fittings on the pipe with conversion fittings to adapt to the
supply tube and/or valves that you should install.


And I've never soldered pipe before. *The only soldering I have done is
electronic circuits, which is an entirely different kind of work. *If I heat
the adaptor with a torch, do I then just lift it off the pipe? *With a tool
such as pliers? *How will I know when it's heated enough? *Will the heat of
the pipe heat the pliers and burn my hand?

The main reason I have to remove one of the present soldered adaptors is that *
the thin pipe to the faucet is stuck in that adapator, as if it had something
connected to the lower end which wouldn't fit through the adaptor, and there
is no easy way to apply enough force to remove it, because of the awkward
position.


OP-

imo you're not going to get sufficient help / info from this thread to
successfully execute this repair.

I sweated more joints than I can remember and thinking back to when I
was a rookie (a LONG time ago) .....I would be very reluctant to
attack this situation as my first tube soldering experience.

If you don't want to hire a pro...do you have a friend, neighbor or
relative who could help you through this?

Or you could hire a handyman..... not so much to do the job but to
show you how.....nothing beats a demo.

Thirty years ago, despite being a pretty accomplished DIY'r, I hired a
professional plumber because I was just too jammed up for time. To
this day, I still use all the tricks he taught me. Probably the best
$500 I ever spent on a home repair.

cheers
Bob

  #9  
Old August 24th 08, 01:13 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 930
Default Under kitchen sink

On Aug 23, 10:11*am, Anagram wrote:
"EXT" wrote ctanews.com:

I am confused. It is important to know that compression fittings use a
different threading than threaded pipe fittings. Don't try to mix them


Right, for example a hose that connects a faucet to the water supply below
uses a threaded pipe (NPT) fitting on the faucet and a compression fitting on
the water supply. *And that kind of compression fitting is different from the
kind that goes on bare copper pipe. *So that's three different kinds of
fittings, two of which are compression.

or you will destroy both sets of threads. If you are talking about
compression fittings that use a brass ring on the pipe, they usually
cannot reliably be reused, often leaking. This is why I don't like to


What about the kind of compression fitting that doesn't use a brass ring
(ferule?) but just compresses the fitting directly against the pipe, with an
insert (of unclear purpose) in the pipe?

use compression fittings on standard copper pipe such as you have
sticking out of the concrete because the only cure for the crushed
copper is to cut it back, which you don't want to do. I would use only
soldered fittings on the pipe with conversion fittings to adapt to the
supply tube and/or valves that you should install.


And I've never soldered pipe before. *The only soldering I have done is
electronic circuits, which is an entirely different kind of work. *If I heat
the adaptor with a torch, do I then just lift it off the pipe? *With a tool
such as pliers? *How will I know when it's heated enough? *Will the heat of
the pipe heat the pliers and burn my hand?

The main reason I have to remove one of the present soldered adaptors is that *
the thin pipe to the faucet is stuck in that adapator, as if it had something
connected to the lower end which wouldn't fit through the adaptor, and there
is no easy way to apply enough force to remove it, because of the awkward
position.


I'm having trouble following & understanding the description of the
installation.

Any chance of some photos? Are there no angle stops? Sounds like a
hack job.

cheers
Bob
  #10  
Old August 24th 08, 05:49 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,950
Default Solder copper pipes under kitchen sink?

Anagram wrote in
:

Is it common to solder copper pipes under a kitchen sink, or is it
almost universal to use compression connections there? If you found
some already soldered there, and wanted to put new connections in,
would you use a torch to remove the old ones, then use compression
connections for the new ones? Or what?

Especially if pipes come out of a concrete slab foundation, and only
stick up 2 or 3 inches, so there is not much excess pipe length to cut
and start over.


Cut back to clean pipe. Put a sweat union on slab end and 4, 6, 12", etc.
extension in the other end of the union. Now you have all the pipe you want
to sweat or use compressions on with plenty of screwup room. If pipe gets
to short in future, just heat union and replace extension. Slab pipe never
gets shorter again.
 




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