I just purchased a house which has a Sears 3000 furnace mounted
humidifier. It's mounted to the supply side with the controls on the
return side. There is a motor driving a drum with a foam pad. When I
pulled it apart the foam pad and reservoir was full of mineralization.
Original owners must've never cleaned it (7 or so years) You couldn't
even tell there was a foam pad under there. I cleaned the reservoir
and got a new pad (actually, a paper wicking pad cut to fit since I
could no longer get the original replacement) and it's looking new
again. But when I hooked it back up the motor doesn't seem to be
turning the drum. Without load it seems to turn fine. With it hooked
up to the drum, there's a lot of clicking like a timer but no turning.
Even with the slightest resistance using my finger it clicks. I'm
wondering if the motor is bad due to years of neglect since I
wouldn't be surprised if the drum hasn't turned in years due to
mineralization. It's a SIEBE Appliance Controls 115VAC 1RPM (3W)
motor. One place online says discontinued, but I wonder if there is a
replacement.

On Dec 1, 4:51 pm, wrote:
I just purchased a house which has a Sears 3000 furnace mounted
humidifier. It's mounted to the supply side with the controls on the
return side. There is a motor driving a drum with a foam pad. When I
pulled it apart the foam pad and reservoir was full of mineralization.
Original owners must've never cleaned it (7 or so years) You couldn't
even tell there was a foam pad under there. I cleaned the reservoir
and got a new pad (actually, a paper wicking pad cut to fit since I
could no longer get the original replacement) and it's looking new
again. But when I hooked it back up the motor doesn't seem to be
turning the drum. Without load it seems to turn fine. With it hooked
up to the drum, there's a lot of clicking like a timer but no turning.
Even with the slightest resistance using my finger it clicks. I'm
wondering if the motor is bad due to years of neglect since I
wouldn't be surprised if the drum hasn't turned in years due to
mineralization. It's a SIEBE Appliance Controls 115VAC 1RPM (3W)
motor. One place online says discontinued, but I wonder if there is a
replacement.

Just buy a new Aprilaire unit, which IMO are the best, and be done
with it. They aren't that expensive that it's worth trying to salvage
a screwed up one. Aprilaire uses a water trickling over a media
element which eliminates many of the problems, like fouling and
bacteria with units that use the rotating pad arrangement. I'd also
go with the one that is fan powered (760?) as opposed to the bypass
type.

On Dec 1, 6:24 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:54:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:51 pm, wrote:
I just purchased a house which has a Sears 3000 furnace mounted
humidifier. It's mounted to the supply side with the controls on the
return side. There is a motor driving a drum with a foam pad. When I
pulled it apart the foam pad and reservoir was full of mineralization.
Original owners must've never cleaned it (7 or so years) You couldn't
even tell there was a foam pad under there. I cleaned the reservoir
and got a new pad (actually, a paper wicking pad cut to fit since I
could no longer get the original replacement) and it's looking new
again. But when I hooked it back up the motor doesn't seem to be
turning the drum. Without load it seems to turn fine. With it hooked
up to the drum, there's a lot of clicking like a timer but no turning.
Even with the slightest resistance using my finger it clicks. I'm
wondering if the motor is bad due to years of neglect since I
wouldn't be surprised if the drum hasn't turned in years due to
mineralization. It's a SIEBE Appliance Controls 115VAC 1RPM (3W)
motor. One place online says discontinued, but I wonder if there is a
replacement.

Just buy a new Aprilaire unit, which IMO are the best, and be done
with it. They aren't that expensive that it's worth trying to salvage
a screwed up one. Aprilaire uses a water trickling over a media
element which eliminates many of the problems, like fouling and
bacteria with units that use the rotating pad arrangement. I'd also
go with the one that is fan powered (760?) as opposed to the bypass
type.

Yep, thats a good idea getting the 700 fan powered model
Why?
Reason number...........
1) A teeney little humidifier motor is certainly stronger than a 1/3,
1/2, 3/4 or 1 hp furnace blower motor.

The small fan only moves air through the media, not through the whole
house, so the comparison is irrelevant. The bypass models reduce the
blower capacity of the furnace by shunting air around. And they send
concentrated humid air straight back into the furnace heat exchanger.
It never seemed a good idea to have high humidity air in the presence
of steel to me.


2) A 700 has a motor, relay, outdoor sensor and humidistat circuit
board to go bad

Yeah, it is a little more complex, but not much. In my experience,
the bigger problem is poor design of other units leading to scale,
crud build up, exactly as his current unit failed. Which also has a
motor, that failed, BTW. And it has a humidistat and some kind of
relay to control the motor, doesn't it?

As for the outside temp sensor, I'd rather have a unit that
automatically lowers the humdidity as the outside temp drops than have
condensation. It works well on my Aprilaire. If you don't like that
feature, Aprilaire has other ones.

Somethings just DONT need to be that complicated.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 1, 7:47 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:33:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 6:24 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:54:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:51 pm, wrote:
I just purchased a house which has a Sears 3000 furnace mounted
humidifier. It's mounted to the supply side with the controls on the
return side. There is a motor driving a drum with a foam pad. When I
pulled it apart the foam pad and reservoir was full of mineralization.
Original owners must've never cleaned it (7 or so years) You couldn't
even tell there was a foam pad under there. I cleaned the reservoir
and got a new pad (actually, a paper wicking pad cut to fit since I
could no longer get the original replacement) and it's looking new
again. But when I hooked it back up the motor doesn't seem to be
turning the drum. Without load it seems to turn fine. With it hooked
up to the drum, there's a lot of clicking like a timer but no turning.
Even with the slightest resistance using my finger it clicks. I'm
wondering if the motor is bad due to years of neglect since I
wouldn't be surprised if the drum hasn't turned in years due to
mineralization. It's a SIEBE Appliance Controls 115VAC 1RPM (3W)
motor. One place online says discontinued, but I wonder if there is a
replacement.

Just buy a new Aprilaire unit, which IMO are the best, and be done
with it. They aren't that expensive that it's worth trying to salvage
a screwed up one. Aprilaire uses a water trickling over a media
element which eliminates many of the problems, like fouling and
bacteria with units that use the rotating pad arrangement. I'd also
go with the one that is fan powered (760?) as opposed to the bypass
type.

Yep, thats a good idea getting the 700 fan powered model
Why?
Reason number...........
1) A teeney little humidifier motor is certainly stronger than a 1/3,
1/2, 3/4 or 1 hp furnace blower motor.

The small fan only moves air through the media, not through the whole
house, so the comparison is irrelevant.

.......and Im telling you that the furnace blower motor negates any
movement of air that little useless humidifier motor does.

Nonsense. The fan in the Aprilaire moves air through the media
perpendicular to the main air flow. If it didn't move air, it
wouldn't have a higher water output capacity than the cheaper 550.



The bypass models reduce the
blower capacity of the furnace by shunting air around.

....and a 6" bypass pipe carries 110CFM (if I remember correctly)
under perfect conditions. Not really a decision maker.

And they send
concentrated humid air straight back into the furnace heat exchanger.
It never seemed a good idea to have high humidity air in the presence
of steel to me.

Well, the hole in that theory is that furnaces since about 1975 or
later have been made with stainless steel, aluminized steel or some
form of it in the heat exchangers.
By your own admission, you are saying that you would be putting the
humidifier on the supply plenum of a furnace. That, my boy is a
horrible idea. Rusted cabinets, shorted gas valves and circuit boards
I find all the time from humidifiers that leaked down into the furnace
controls.


Yeah, because they're crap humdifiers like the one the OP has. I've
had an Aprilaire for 10 years and there have been zero problems. No
rust, no seized motors, no failures due to your alleged complexity,
nada. All I do is change the media element every 2 years. And I've
seen lots of folks on here over the years that have the same model and
everyone of them has said it was a super, trouble free unit.


ALWAYS put the humidifier on the Return. THATS why I dont
like the powered fan models. Those have to be on the supply plenum and
thats where the mess starts.



2) A 700 has a motor, relay, outdoor sensor and humidistat circuit
board to go bad

Yeah, it is a little more complex, but not much. In my experience,
the bigger problem is poor design of other units leading to scale,
crud build up, exactly as his current unit failed. Which also has a
motor, that failed, BTW. And it has a humidistat and some kind of
relay to control the motor, doesn't it?

Its not that its complex, its just the fact that they tried to make it
something it doesnt need to be. Wait till you pay to have that circuit
boarded humidistat replaced. A far cry more than a standard
humidistat.


10 years later and the unit, which only cost like $160 new, doesn't
owe me a nickel. Just checked online and the replacement "circuit
board" is a whopping $55. I won't lose sleep worrying that it's
gonna fail.


A failed motor? Exactly my point. A bypass doesnt have one.
Crud comes from humidifiers that I dont consider humidifiers (like
ones with a rolling drum or resovior that holds mineral concentrated
water. Aprilaire does a pretty good job of making a simple humidifier.

As for the outside temp sensor, I'd rather have a unit that
automatically lowers the humdidity as the outside temp drops than have
condensation. It works well on my Aprilaire. If you don't like that
feature, Aprilaire has other ones.

Thats why I like the model 550. Simple and economical.

Yes, but it doesn't automatically lower the humidity as the outside
temp drops, a feature I like. And with the bypass models, you're
always shunting some of the furnace blower capacity. And typically
they have a flap to move to cut off the shunted flow when in cooling
season, assuming the homeowner knows or remembers to move it.


I install the
humidistats at the thermostat though. I dont like them in the return
ductwork by the furnace where the homemoaner seems to never go.
Bubba


I set mine once and with the automatic compensation for outside temp,
never touch it.




Somethings just DONT need to be that complicated.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

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On Dec 2, 3:59 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 18:59:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:47 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:33:33 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 6:24 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:54:03 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:51 pm, wrote:
I just purchased a house which has a Sears 3000 furnace mounted
humidifier. It's mounted to the supply side with the controls on the
return side. There is a motor driving a drum with a foam pad. When I
pulled it apart the foam pad and reservoir was full of mineralization.
Original owners must've never cleaned it (7 or so years) You couldn't
even tell there was a foam pad under there. I cleaned the reservoir
and got a new pad (actually, a paper wicking pad cut to fit since I
could no longer get the original replacement) and it's looking new
again. But when I hooked it back up the motor doesn't seem to be
turning the drum. Without load it seems to turn fine. With it hooked
up to the drum, there's a lot of clicking like a timer but no turning.
Even with the slightest resistance using my finger it clicks. I'm
wondering if the motor is bad due to years of neglect since I
wouldn't be surprised if the drum hasn't turned in years due to
mineralization. It's a SIEBE Appliance Controls 115VAC 1RPM (3W)
motor. One place online says discontinued, but I wonder if there is a
replacement.

Just buy a new Aprilaire unit, which IMO are the best, and be done
with it. They aren't that expensive that it's worth trying to salvage
a screwed up one. Aprilaire uses a water trickling over a media
element which eliminates many of the problems, like fouling and
bacteria with units that use the rotating pad arrangement. I'd also
go with the one that is fan powered (760?) as opposed to the bypass
type.

Yep, thats a good idea getting the 700 fan powered model
Why?
Reason number...........
1) A teeney little humidifier motor is certainly stronger than a 1/3,
1/2, 3/4 or 1 hp furnace blower motor.

The small fan only moves air through the media, not through the whole
house, so the comparison is irrelevant.

.......and Im telling you that the furnace blower motor negates any
movement of air that little useless humidifier motor does.

Nonsense. The fan in the Aprilaire moves air through the media
perpendicular to the main air flow. If it didn't move air, it
wouldn't have a higher water output capacity than the cheaper 550.

The bypass models reduce the
blower capacity of the furnace by shunting air around.

....and a 6" bypass pipe carries 110CFM (if I remember correctly)
under perfect conditions. Not really a decision maker.

And they send
concentrated humid air straight back into the furnace heat exchanger.
It never seemed a good idea to have high humidity air in the presence
of steel to me.

Well, the hole in that theory is that furnaces since about 1975 or
later have been made with stainless steel, aluminized steel or some
form of it in the heat exchangers.
By your own admission, you are saying that you would be putting the
humidifier on the supply plenum of a furnace. That, my boy is a
horrible idea. Rusted cabinets, shorted gas valves and circuit boards
I find all the time from humidifiers that leaked down into the furnace
controls.

Yeah, because they're crap humdifiers like the one the OP has. I've
had an Aprilaire for 10 years and there have been zero problems. No
rust, no seized motors, no failures due to your alleged complexity,
nada. All I do is change the media element every 2 years. And I've
seen lots of folks on here over the years that have the same model and
everyone of them has said it was a super, trouble free unit.

ALWAYS put the humidifier on the Return. THATS why I dont
like the powered fan models. Those have to be on the supply plenum and
thats where the mess starts.

2) A 700 has a motor, relay, outdoor sensor and humidistat circuit
board to go bad

Yeah, it is a little more complex, but not much. In my experience,
the bigger problem is poor design of other units leading to scale,
crud build up, exactly as his current unit failed. Which also has a
motor, that failed, BTW. And it has a humidistat and some kind of
relay to control the motor, doesn't it?

Its not that its complex, its just the fact that they tried to make it
something it doesnt need to be. Wait till you pay to have that circuit
boarded humidistat replaced. A far cry more than a standard
humidistat.

10 years later and the unit, which only cost like $160 new, doesn't
owe me a nickel. Just checked online and the replacement "circuit
board" is a whopping $55. I won't lose sleep worrying that it's
gonna fail.

A failed motor? Exactly my point. A bypass doesnt have one.
Crud comes from humidifiers that I dont consider humidifiers (like
ones with a rolling drum or resovior that holds mineral concentrated
water. Aprilaire does a pretty good job of making a simple humidifier.

As for the outside temp sensor, I'd rather have a unit that
automatically lowers the humdidity as the outside temp drops than have
condensation. It works well on my Aprilaire. If you don't like that
feature, Aprilaire has other ones.

Thats why I like the model 550. Simple and economical.

Yes, but it doesn't automatically lower the humidity as the outside
temp drops, a feature I like. And with the bypass models, you're
always shunting some of the furnace blower capacity. And typically
they have a flap to move to cut off the shunted flow when in cooling
season, assuming the homeowner knows or remembers to move it.

I install the
humidistats at the thermostat though. I dont like them in the return
ductwork by the furnace where the homemoaner seems to never go.
Bubba

I set mine once and with the automatic compensation for outside temp,
never touch it.

Somethings just DONT need to be that complicated.
Bubba- Hide quoted text -

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Not to start name calling or anything but you seem rather pig headed.

Not to start name calling, but you sound like the pot calling the
kettle black.

Reading your entier post shows me just exactly how much you dont know.
Ive got about 25 years of HVAC service in now on residential and light
commercial. All but about 3 of those years I have owned my own
company. You can believe whatever you want to spew out of your mouth.
I know what I know because I see it everyday.

Yes, and I know what I know because I'm a degreed engineer who put in
my own Aprilaire 760 ten years ago. I did it myself because I didn't
want to deal with guys like you. And guess what, it's running fine.
No leaks, no repairs, nada. Just put a new media in it every 2 years.



Just so you dont get too confused, I am pointing out that Aprilaire IS
my humidifier of choice.

Yeah, well no one would know it from your first post attacking me.


Powered models are NOT my favorite although
some furnaces have no other choice due to space or whatever.

Oh gee, really, and how is it that we only hear that hollow
endorsement now? Did you even ask the OP about any of that before
your proclaimed the Aprilaire 760 crap?

From a business standpoint I LOVE the powered models. Higher initial
cost and higher repair cost. What's not to love?

No repair cost here, nada. Besides your own claims, I'd love to see
any credible references that say powered models have a shorter life
than unpowered ones. You can buy a crap unpowered one and it will
fail like the one the OP has. Or you can buy a powered or bypass
model from a quality manufacturer and it will last.


Kind of like being a plumber with garbage disposals. You get paid to
put em in. Paid to unclog em. Paid to unstick them and finally get
paid to replace them. Oh the love of em.

No problens here with my garbage disposal either, thank you. Had a
Kenmore that was in the house when I bought it. Lasted 18 years.
Replaced it with an Insinkerator 4 years ago myself and its running
fine.

Now let me point out what you spewed that you are wrong on.
The air flow that the powered humidifier moves and air that gets
"shunted' by the bypass is very neglegible. Period.

Please site your reference that says a 4" shunt duct around a furnace
from plenum to plenum is neglible. And if it's so negligible, why do
most install have a flap for the homeowner to move to close it during
AC season? That's assuming they know about it or remember.



The reason the 700 puts out more than the "cheaper" 550 is NOT because
of the humidifier motor, brainaic. The 700 uses a bigger media filter
(#35 ) AND a larger orifice.

Well it seems logical that it would use a larger orifice. That's the
only way it could supply more moisture to the significantly more air
moving through it. Why would that surprise you?

The 550 is able to evaporate about .50
gal/hr good for about a 3000 sq ft home. The 700 is good for about .75
gal/hr in a 4200 sq ft home.

Hmmm, I thought the fan was useless and the 760 was no good. Funny
how it's applicable to larger homes. Gee, maybe that's another
reason I bought it. You can just put a tin can on your stove in your
trailer.

The media in your humidifier is supposed to be replaced every 1 years,
NOT every 2.

Yeah, and I suppose I should pay you to do it. BTW, who came up with
that suggestion? Could it be the idiots at Aprilaire that according
to you don't know squat and sell overly complex units that are failure
prone and useless according to you? 2 years between media changes
has worked perfectly fine for me. You are aware of the concept of
inspection and only replacing if necessayr aren't you? Hmm, maybe
you just like to go replace them every year for $$$. No failures
here, no replaced expensive circuit boards( oh whopping $50, how shall
I survive that?) , nada.

Ive already quashed your "humidity through the heat exchanger" theory.
Although the 700 and others have the auto control it is still
adjustable and Id rather it be upstairs by the thermostat where I can
see, control and adjust it.

Cool, so you live with your customers so you can see control and
adjust it.

You dont go to the basement to change your temperature do you?

No, and I don't go there to change the humidity level, because I set
it once and it's fine. It SELF ADJUSTS for the outside temp, which is
a feature I LIKE.

Nuf said. Believe what you want. Think what you want. I see them
everyday.
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