How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

back into it with a car
"Lacustral" wrote in message
...
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:53:10 -0400, Meat Plow
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 18:37:08 -0400, Lacustral wrote:

How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Sledgehammer, masonry chisel, spud bar, brute strength.

Saftey glasses, and gloves to protect the manicure.


--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

Primacord!

SD

The car idea was good. But the male way would be a sledge hammer.


s


"Lacustral" wrote in message
...
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

On Sep 23, 3:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

The simple way. Just start picking blocks off of it. A couple bumps
with the end of a 2x4 or 2x6 will usually loosen the mortar. Now if
the cores were poured you might have to do some beating on it with a
sledge hammer. Mortar is more of an 'evener' than a 'glue',

Harry K

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:13:47 GMT, "S H O P D O G"
wrote:

Primacord!

If not that, Secundacord.

SD

On Sep 23, 6:47 pm, "Roemax" wrote:
back into it with a car".


Preferably someone else's car.

On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Three Mexicans from you local Home Depot and it will be down and in
your dumpster in an hour.

On Sep 24, 12:37 pm, RickH wrote:
On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:

How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Three Mexicans from you local Home Depot and it will be down and in
your dumpster in an hour.

If cinder blocks reasonably clean keep them or give them to someone
who can use them. We always have a few lying around here. Very useful
as extra blocks under if/when working on a car etc. In some areas just
stack em outside near the sidewalk and they'll be gone in the morning!
In windy condtions a cinder block or two hung on ropes can hold down a
tarpaulin over a roof etc. Keep a few anyway.

On Sep 24, 11:08 am, terry wrote:
On Sep 24, 12:37 pm, RickH wrote:

On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:

How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Three Mexicans from you local Home Depot and it will be down and in
your dumpster in an hour.

If cinder blocks reasonably clean keep them or give them to someone
who can use them. We always have a few lying around here. Very useful
as extra blocks under if/when working on a car etc. In some areas just
stack em outside near the sidewalk and they'll be gone in the morning!
In windy condtions a cinder block or two hung on ropes can hold down a
tarpaulin over a roof etc. Keep a few anyway.

Real cinder blocks do not make good makeshift jackstands, countless
redneck jokes notwithstanding. It's rare, but possible that they may
crumble under the concentrated weight of a car frame sitting on them,
which would be bad if you happened to be underneath the car at the
time and still inconvenient even if you weren't.

nate

N8N wrote:
Real cinder blocks do not make good makeshift jackstands, countless
redneck jokes notwithstanding. It's rare, but possible that they may
crumble under the concentrated weight of a car frame sitting on them,
which would be bad if you happened to be underneath the car at the
time and still inconvenient even if you weren't.

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in someone's
front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.

"HeyBub" wrote in message

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in
someone's front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.


Probably will sit many more decades. OTOH, a block that was sledged out of
a wall may not be quite as strong or can have stress cracks in it. I'd not
trust my life to it.

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:25:40 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

N8N wrote:
Real cinder blocks do not make good makeshift jackstands, countless
redneck jokes notwithstanding. It's rare, but possible that they may
crumble under the concentrated weight of a car frame sitting on them,
which would be bad if you happened to be underneath the car at the
time and still inconvenient even if you weren't.

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in someone's
front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.


Some folks have mistakenly/wrongly placed or stacked blocks on their
side. They should collapse; almost immediately with a car lowered to
the block.

Front yard cars for decades are called "yard ornaments"

--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

Some items to try:

Car bumper
sledge hammer
jack hammer
large chisels and points
concrete saw
pry bar
shovel
pick
stout chain and 4wd truck
hand grinder to cut rebar

Depending on how it was put in, removal will require some combination of the
above items.

Might be a piece of cake; might be a real MOFO.

Steve

On Sep 23, 6:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Hi,

I think a sledge hammer would do the trick. An you could certianly do
it for sections of wall far away from the remaining bit of wall you
want. If you want a nice clean cut, you can rent a grinder cutter and
cut your way through it. This would give you a very nice clean cut.
May be over kill though. The other way would be to chisel small chunks
off at a time. To help you you can rent a demolition hammer. These are
like smaller versions of the ones you see "roadies" use to digg cut
ashpalt roads with. They are electric powered and come in smaller
lighter sizes.

For a 3 block high wall, I think a cold chisle and hammer would
probablly do you though. Should not take too long even at small chunks
at a time.

Best, Mike.

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:22:03 -0500, "Glenn" wrote:

I haven't seem a real cider block in 50 years in my
region. Do they still make the things?

"Cider" blocks are as rare as hens teeth.

--
Oren

"I don't have anything against work. I just figure, why deprive somebody who really loves it."

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:08:32 -0700, terry
wrote:

On Sep 24, 12:37 pm, RickH wrote:
On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:

How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Three Mexicans from you local Home Depot and it will be down and in
your dumpster in an hour.

If cinder blocks reasonably clean keep them or give them to someone
who can use them. We always have a few lying around here. Very useful
as extra blocks under if/when working on a car etc.

You are *kidding* right? Only a complete idiot would put cinder blocks
under a car when working on it...

on 9/24/2007 7:05 PM PeterD said the following:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:08:32 -0700, terry
wrote:


On Sep 24, 12:37 pm, RickH wrote:

On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:


How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Three Mexicans from you local Home Depot and it will be down and in
your dumpster in an hour.

If cinder blocks reasonably clean keep them or give them to someone
who can use them. We always have a few lying around here. Very useful
as extra blocks under if/when working on a car etc.


You are *kidding* right? Only a complete idiot would put cinder blocks
under a car when working on it...


Everyone knows only orange crates should be used under a car when
working on it.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:NYTJi.6028$ax2.4483@trndny08...

"HeyBub" wrote in message

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in
someone's front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.


Probably will sit many more decades. OTOH, a block that was sledged out
of a wall may not be quite as strong or can have stress cracks in it. I'd
not trust my life to it.
Even as a kid, I knew to only use SOLID concrete blocks under a car. I
preferred to use timbers, if I had them on hand. Even with a solid block,
I'd use a piece of 2x above it to reduce the chance of a metal edge
splitting the block. And I'd never crawl completely under a car held up like
that, just use it to hold up a corner where I had a wheel off or something.

aem sends...

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:36:44 -0400, willshak
wrote:

You are *kidding* right? Only a complete idiot would put cinder blocks
under a car when working on it...


Everyone knows only orange crates should be used under a car when
working on it.

Wrong! Orange crates are expensive. :-))

--
Oren

"equal opportunity, not equal results"

On Sep 23, 3:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Well, I have read the entire thread. Seems hardly anyone has actually
removed a block wall. I have, several of them.

Unless the cores have been poured or there is reinforcing embedded in
teh mortar joints, it is a simple job, not requireing power tools.

Your top course may give you problems that a few easy thumps with a
sledge hammer will take care of. After that course the rest will
probably just pick off or only require a mild tap. Mortar is not a
'glue'. Once the blocks are free, a chipping hammer will usually
remove any remaining mortar with a few taps. Try the simple way first
and you will be surprised at how minor a job it is.

Harry K

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:19:02 GMT, "aemeijers"
wrote:


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:NYTJi.6028$ax2.4483@trndny08...

"HeyBub" wrote in message

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in
someone's front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.


Probably will sit many more decades. OTOH, a block that was sledged out
of a wall may not be quite as strong or can have stress cracks in it. I'd
not trust my life to it.
Even as a kid, I knew to only use SOLID concrete blocks under a car. I
preferred to use timbers, if I had them on hand. Even with a solid block,
I'd use a piece of 2x above it to reduce the chance of a metal edge
splitting the block. And I'd never crawl completely under a car held up like
that, just use it to hold up a corner where I had a wheel off or something.

aem sends...

I wouldn't use anything but solid blocks either, all the cautions you
all have said, no matter how many cars have sat on open ones.

I had a pair of steel jackstands, the kind about 15 inches high with
three angle iron legs leading up to an adjustable pipe in the middle,
rated by the manufacturer at far more than the load that was on the
one I was using.

It only had the plymouth version of a Chrysler LeBaron, a K-car, and
lt crumbled. Worse yet, it happened when I was in the house and I had
left an 18 year-old boy with the car. Fortunately he wasn't under the
car. And it didn't bend all the way down, and he was pretty thin, so
he might have made it.

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:53:30 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

Mortar is not a
'glue'.

The guys who buillt my house got mortar over a lot of the bricks, and
extra mortar at the edges of where it was supposed to be also.

I got loads of it off with a box cutter with the blade in sideways**
so it was a scraper. This worked better than a dedicated single-blade
razor scraper, because the blades didn't break anywhere near as often.

You're right that the extra mortar barely stuck to the bricks and the
hard part was where it was attached to more mortar, and even that part
wasn't very strong.

**There are two designs for the simple two piece, very flat box
cutter. Only one design can be used also as scrapers. You can tell
by the inner piece. It holds the razor at one end as a box cutter,
and at the other end, the two pieces of metal when viewed from the
side form a sharply pointed triangle, like a thumb and forefinger
holding something

"Lacustral" wrote in message
...
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Seems most folks think a sledge hammer will do.

It may. I tried a few whacks on the cinderblock walls I was tearing down.
No fun. Hard to do, chunks of concrete flying in the face, hard to get at
the stuff in the ground, created more rubble than easy-to-grab chunks,
inaccurate...just a big pain in the rump.

I rented a demolition hammer for a couple days and tore the hell out of
those walls. It's basically a small, handheld jackhammer. Plug it in, rest
the tip against the cinderblock, and pull the trigger. Once you take out a
couple blocks, you'll have the hang of it, knocking out good size chunks you
can deal with. If you end up with too-big chunks, just bust them up with
the demo hammer. You can easily get at the stuff under the ground after you
brush some of the dirt out of the way. Dig a little hole next to the block
where you want to start, so the chunk will have somewhere to go, then just
knock out one block or so at a time.

Oh, and it's fun as hell, too.

Turned out some of the cinderblock wall was 'repaired' at one time with real
concrete, high strength stuff. It was tough to take out even with the demo
hammer. Forget using a sledge on that.

Some Home Depots rent them. Last one I rented came from United Rentals. I
think it cost something like $45 a day. Sounds like a lot, that is, until
you find that using a sledge sends one too many chunks of concrete smacking
you in the forehead.

One of the contractors I had in for another job stole my sledge. I was
grateful.

CS

"Harry K" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 23, 3:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer.
It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Well, I have read the entire thread. Seems hardly anyone has actually
removed a block wall. I have, several of them.

Unless the cores have been poured or there is reinforcing embedded in
teh mortar joints, it is a simple job, not requireing power tools.

Your top course may give you problems that a few easy thumps with a
sledge hammer will take care of. After that course the rest will
probably just pick off or only require a mild tap. Mortar is not a
'glue'. Once the blocks are free, a chipping hammer will usually
remove any remaining mortar with a few taps. Try the simple way first
and you will be surprised at how minor a job it is.

Harry K


Apparently you missed my post where I had removed 100' of six foot wall with
rebar, footers, and poured cells. The top part is usually easy, with most
of it falling over with a few slaps from a big hammer. It's just when you
get down to the bottom course when you find out if it is truly an easy job.
If you have a large footing, it gets complicated from there.

Removing a cinderblock wall of any size is no simple job. And the longer it
has been in place, the more the indication is that it was put up strong with
a lot of reinforcement.

I do hope the OP keeps us posted as to just how easy/hard it was.

Steve

Steve

On 23 Sep 2007 18:37:08 -0400, (Lacustral)
wrote:

How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

Use a chisel on the mortar and pry them apart. Save them if you can,
someone can always use them. Sure, a sledge hammer can do lots of
demolition, and you can work your ass off and do the job a little
faster at the expense of excessive sweating, but then you got to clean
up all the busted blocks and find a place to dispose of the junk. I'd
rather spend a little more time separating the blocks, and reusing
them, or giving them to someone else to use. It's easier to move 60
whole blocks than pails and pails of busted up junk.

Oh ya, if you are a redneck hillbilly and get really drunk. Slamming a
car into the wall is a great way to wreck the car and your
marriage.

According to Edwin Pawlowski :

"HeyBub" wrote in message

I suppose it could happen, but I've seen cars on cinder blocks, in
someone's front yard, for DECADES and the blocks haven't crumbled yet.

Probably will sit many more decades. OTOH, a block that was sledged out of
a wall may not be quite as strong or can have stress cracks in it. I'd not
trust my life to it.

Depends on the circumstances.

Up here, a cinder block that hasn't been "filled" with concrete
partially embedded in moist dirt won't last through more than
one or two freeze-thaw cycles. Of the 9 cinderblocks under the
14'x14' shed we renovated (including raising the whole thing 8"
to put another support beam under it), 4 of the 9 cinder blocks
had disintegrated.

Secondly, I watched an electrician "drill" a 2" conduit hole
through a new cinder block wall with only a 2lb hand sledge ...

Surprisingly neat hole too.

Cinder blocks aren't very durable. They shatter easy. Not
a good thing to stick under a car, unless you're not terribly
concerned it might fall down.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

You cracked me up Especially the . I do not
have, nor have ever had, a manicure.

At least some of the blocks do have the centers filled with concrete.
Yes it would be better to get the blocks out whole. I know I can give
those away or sell them, and trying to get rid of a mass of concrete
chunks is a real disposal problem. Dumping them in the woods seems
rather antisocial So it sounds like the idea of renting
a concrete saw is the best. There are cracks in the mortar here and
there - there are huge changes in temperature here. So some of the
cinderblocks might come out with a big prybar, I have one of those
(a dangerous instrument!)

There are windows nearby and I've thought, probably best to protect them
with a sheet of drywall.

That silly "decorative trim" wall really gets in the way ... maybe it is
fairly easy to just get rid of the thing ...

Laura

"Lacustral" wrote in message
...
You cracked me up Especially the . I do not
have, nor have ever had, a manicure.

At least some of the blocks do have the centers filled with concrete.
Yes it would be better to get the blocks out whole. I know I can give
those away or sell them, and trying to get rid of a mass of concrete
chunks is a real disposal problem. Dumping them in the woods seems
rather antisocial So it sounds like the idea of renting
a concrete saw is the best. There are cracks in the mortar here and
there - there are huge changes in temperature here. So some of the
cinderblocks might come out with a big prybar, I have one of those
(a dangerous instrument!)

There are windows nearby and I've thought, probably best to protect them
with a sheet of drywall.

That silly "decorative trim" wall really gets in the way ... maybe it is
fairly easy to just get rid of the thing ...

Laura



You will only know AFTER you have taken it out. Please advise us as work
progresses as to how easy/hard it was to take out.

Steve

On 25 Sep 2007 09:58:28 -0400, (Lacustral)
wrote:

You cracked me up Especially the . I do not
have, nor have ever had, a manicure.

Laura? A female with never having an manicure? I can never imagine
this.

Send me a picture of your bass boat!!


Laura

--
Oren

"I don't have anything against work. I just figure, why deprive somebody who really loves it."

On Sep 23, 5:37 pm, (Lacustral) wrote:
How would you demo a small cinderblock wall? It's about 20 cinderblocks
long, not attached to anything except to a section of wall I want - but
there's a crack between the section I want to take out and the section I
want, so that may be fine. It's about 3 cinderblocks high, the bottom
cinderblock was apparently halfway buried in the ground as a footer. It's
mortared. I don't know if it has any metal reinforcement, it probably
doesn't need any.

Laura

I was serious about the Mexicans. I saw 2 Mexicans take out a granite
sistern from an old farmhouse basement (back from the day people would
collect a supply of rainwater in a basement sistern). It was 6 foot
high by 2 foot thick granite rubble with cement mortar about 10 foot
by 8 foot wide. They had the whole thing down, up the stairs, and in
the dumpster in 8 hours.

On 25 Sep 2007 09:58:28 -0400, (Lacustral)
wrote:

You cracked me up Especially the . I do not
have, nor have ever had, a manicure.

At least some of the blocks do have the centers filled with concrete.
Yes it would be better to get the blocks out whole. I know I can give
those away or sell them, and trying to get rid of a mass of concrete
chunks is a real disposal problem. Dumping them in the woods seems
rather antisocial So it sounds like the idea of renting
a concrete saw is the best. There are cracks in the mortar here and
there - there are huge changes in temperature here. So some of the
cinderblocks might come out with a big prybar, I have one of those
(a dangerous instrument!)

There are windows nearby and I've thought, probably best to protect them
with a sheet of drywall.

That silly "decorative trim" wall really gets in the way ... maybe it is
fairly easy to just get rid of the thing ...

Laura


If that mortar or concrete is all the way thru the holes in the block,
it will be much more difficult to separate the blocks. You might want
to rent a small bulldozer or something like that. Otherwise, you just
have to keep hammering. But, that mortar might just be in the top
blocks, so try separating them first. Busted up concrete can be used
as fill for roadways or ditches if you are in a rural area, or maybe
the city or county road departments can use the stuff. On the other
hand, if you are planning to make a concrete sidewalk or driveway, you
can dump all this stuff in the bottom of the forms and save on
concrete.

I wouldn't use anything but solid blocks either, all the cautions you
all have said, no matter how many cars have sat on open ones.

I had a pair of steel jackstands, the kind about 15 inches high with
three angle iron legs leading up to an adjustable pipe in the middle,
rated by the manufacturer at far more than the load that was on the
one I was using.

It only had the plymouth version of a Chrysler LeBaron, a K-car, and
lt crumbled. Worse yet, it happened when I was in the house and I had
left an 18 year-old boy with the car. Fortunately he wasn't under the
car. And it didn't bend all the way down, and he was pretty thin, so
he might have made it.



I was going to use a pair of jackstands, until I saw "Made in China" on
them. Shoot, if their ethics allow lead paint, why would I trust their
welders?