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Default Softened water on plants

When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.
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Default Softened water on plants

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 11:37:57 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.



Soften the water going into the water heater. Don't soften the cold
water.
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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 9, 9:37 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.



Kurt,

If you use NaCl (sodium chloride) as brine to regenerate your softener
then NO, you can't use softened water to water your plants.

If you use KCl (potassium chloride) as brine to regenerate your
softener then YES you can.

More info here... http://softeningsalt.com/page8.html from the largest
supplier of softener salt (both NaCl and KCl) in the western
hemisphere.

My home is plumbed so soft water is supplied EVERYWHERE, at every
faucet and fixture. My wife has been watering plants and flowers with
KCl softened water for 11 years and she hasn't lost a plant or a
flower yet.

Get a properly sized and setup industry standard softener from a water
treatment professional and your water and your life will be softer ;-)


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On Sep 9, 9:55 am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 11:37:57 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:


Soften the water going into the water heater. Don't soften the cold
water.


With respect, that is the single biggest mistake made when installing
a softener. If you soften only the cold water going to the water
heater then only the water heater sees soft water. you may improve the
length of the service life of the water heater but the rest of the
home sees HARD water and you've lost any benefit of soft water.

Installing a softener on only the cold service to a water heater is
done whne a proper installation would be more difficult and more
expensive but IT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO.

Every appliance, every pipe, every faucet, and every fixture that sees
cold water sees HARD water. Anywhere in the home that hot and cold are
mixed you have HARD water. If that's how you choose to install a
softener then save your money or just run it through a paper
shredder... same difference.

If you don't believe me, then get a hardness testing kit and test the
water coming out of any faucet when cold and hot are running, but be
prepared to be very unhappy.


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Default Softened water on plants

In article .com,
wrote:


If you use KCl (potassium chloride) as brine to regenerate your
softener then YES you can.

How do the osmosis or Kinetico-type softeners fit into this scenario?


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Default Softened water on plants

on 9/9/2007 11:37 AM Kurt Ullman said the following:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.


My house also had a water softener that supplied the whole house. What I
did was to find the pipes that ran to the sill cocks. A single pipe
connected the front sill cock to the rear sill cock. It had a tee
fitting that supplied the softened water to the single sill cock pipe.
I followed that supply pipe back to the softener, then cut it and
soldered a new fitting and pipe from the input pipe of the softener to
the cut sill cock pipe. I blocked off the old softened water supply to
the sill cocks. Now, the whole house is supplied with softened water,
except the sill cocks which get unsoftened water. I also put a 1/4 turn
valve in the new sill cock line at the softener to be able to shut them
off when working on or replacing them

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 9, 10:43 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:
If you use KCl (potassium chloride) as brine to regenerate your
softener then YES you can.


How do the osmosis or Kinetico-type softeners fit into this scenario?



Kurt,

Reverse Osmosis (RO) is an "uber filter" that pretty much removes
everything but the "H" and the "O" from the water but wastes about 2-3
gallons for every gallon of water it makes. Not a good choice for cost
effective "plant water".

Kineticos are great softeners and have a large and loyal customer
base. They are "ion exchange" softeners and follow the same rules of
chemistry and physica as ALL other ion exchange softeners.

So, as I said in an earlier reply...

If you use NaCl (sodium chloride) as brine to regenerate your softener
then NO, you can't use softened water to water your plants.

If you use KCl (potassium chloride) as brine to regenerate your
softener then YES you can.

More info here... http://softeningsalt.com/page8.html from the largest
supplier of softener salt (both NaCl and KCl) in the western
hemisphere.

KCl (potassium chloride) costs more per bag than NaCl but if you value
your plants it's a small price to pay.

The simple, and cost effective answer to your question is... get a
properly sized and setup industry standard softener from a water
treatment professional, soften the ENTIRE house, and set the softener
to use KCl (potassium chloride) as a regenerant.


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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 9, 11:37 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.


It depends on how hard your water is and how frequently you water with
the softened water. Once in awhile watering with softened water to
below the root level won't harm plants but it can cause the softener
problems if you run too much water water or run it too fast.

You can by-pass the softener when watering or use potassium chloride.
Using it will cost more than salt and you'll probably have to increase
the salt dose of your softener by up to 30%; that depends on the salt
efficiency the softener is set up for.

You don't want to use softened water in a pool. It can mess up the
chemistry of the pool and the softener will probably run out of
capacity and then not be regenerated fully with the salt dose setting
it is set for.

Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates

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On Sep 9, 1:03 pm, wrote:
On Sep 9, 10:43 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:


How do the osmosis or Kinetico-type softeners fit into this scenario?


Kineticos are great softeners and have a large and loyal customer
base. They are "ion exchange" softeners and follow the same rules of
chemistry and physica as ALL other ion exchange softeners.


A French company recently bought Kinetico and when compared to the
number of dealers of other national and international companies, they
are a small company.

They use a water powered control valve that usually requires a
sediment pre-filter and contacting the local dealer to do a simple
thing like changing the amount of hardness setting. They allow full
line water pressure on the brine line at all times except during the
refill and brine draw cycle positions of a regeneration; that means at
all times except during a regeneration.

On average they are very high priced for what you get. They are
difficult to work on and you can only buy parts from the local dealer.

If I'm wrong on any of that, someone please correct me.

Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates

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I hate buying salt. So anything that would use the salt up faster is bad by
my thinking....On the other hand, washing the car with soft water is soooooo
nice.

Can't speak for outside plants but all my house plants get watered with
sof****er (NaCl) and I have no problems. HAving said that, all my plants
have drain holes in their pots so I can flush out any accumulated salts/

Water softners also reduce rust stains which may also be a reason to run
soft water outside. My side walk has plenty of rust spots where the hose
dripped over night.

My vote: I wouldnt run soft water to the outside spigots


"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.





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Default Softened water on plants

In article m, wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:55 am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 11:37:57 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:


Soften the water going into the water heater. Don't soften the cold
water.


With respect, that is the single biggest mistake made when installing
a softener. If you soften only the cold water going to the water
heater then only the water heater sees soft water. you may improve the
length of the service life of the water heater but the rest of the
home sees HARD water and you've lost any benefit of soft water.


Not true. You've lost some of the benefit, but not all -- the combination of
the softened hot water and hard cold water isn't as soft as the soft water
alone, but it also isn't as hard as the hard water alone.

Installing a softener on only the cold service to a water heater is
done whne a proper installation would be more difficult and more
expensive but IT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO.

Every appliance, every pipe, every faucet, and every fixture that sees
cold water sees HARD water.


Well, duh.

Anywhere in the home that hot and cold are
mixed you have HARD water.


Nonsense. You have water that's partially softened.

If that's how you choose to install a
softener then save your money or just run it through a paper
shredder... same difference.


Nonsense. Mixing them reduces the benefit, sure, but it doesn't eliminate it.

If you don't believe me, then get a hardness testing kit and test the
water coming out of any faucet when cold and hot are running, but be
prepared to be very unhappy.


What, you think that it will show the same hardness as the hard (cold) water
alone? Think again.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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On Sep 9, 2:42 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article m, wrote:
On Sep 9, 9:55 am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 11:37:57 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:


Soften the water going into the water heater. Don't soften the cold
water.


With respect, that is the single biggest mistake made when installing
a softener. If you soften only the cold water going to the water
heater then only the water heater sees soft water. you may improve the
length of the service life of the water heater but the rest of the
home sees HARD water and you've lost any benefit of soft water.


Not true. You've lost some of the benefit, but not all -- the combination of
the softened hot water and hard cold water isn't as soft as the soft water
alone, but it also isn't as hard as the hard water alone.



Installing a softener on only the cold service to a water heater is
done whne a proper installation would be more difficult and more
expensive but IT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO.


Every appliance, every pipe, every faucet, and every fixture that sees
cold water sees HARD water.


Well, duh.

Anywhere in the home that hot and cold are
mixed you have HARD water.


Nonsense. You have water that's partially softened.

If that's how you choose to install a
softener then save your money or just run it through a paper
shredder... same difference.


Nonsense. Mixing them reduces the benefit, sure, but it doesn't eliminate it.



If you don't believe me, then get a hardness testing kit and test the
water coming out of any faucet when cold and hot are running, but be
prepared to be very unhappy.


What, you think that it will show the same hardness as the hard (cold) water
alone? Think again.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.




We have a water softener that uses the salt pellets. We've been
having a lot of dry weather here this year and we have saved water
from the laundry to water outside plants. It doesn't appear to have
caused any problems. Our sprinkler system doesn't use softened water
but we put it on flowers and newly planted vegetable seeds....

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"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.


Don't know if it is harmful, but it is certainly wasteful.

In general (can't see your plumbing) it shouldn't be a big deal to replumb
the outside faucets to be before the softener. I did that when I put a
pressure reducer on; I wanted the old 90 psi on the outside faucets.


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Kurt Ullman wrote:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is
a good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to.
So, comments? Also, we would use the outside faucets (spigots,
whatever) to put water in the pool when opening and occassionally during
the rest of the season.

Hi,
Little off topic, we noticed BIG difference when we water the plants
with rain water(we collect it from down spouts, we have 3 barrels
storing rain water) and using softened or regular tap water.
Rain water is best.
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"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:b3YEi.144585$rX4.5901@pd7urf2no...
Kurt Ullman wrote:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is a
good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to. So, comments? Also, we would use the
outside faucets (spigots, whatever) to put water in the pool when opening
and occassionally during the rest of the season.

Hi,
Little off topic, we noticed BIG difference when we water the plants with
rain water(we collect it from down spouts, we have 3 barrels storing rain
water) and using softened or regular tap water.
Rain water is best.


It might not have anything to do with tap/softened water. That "rainwater"
acually contains fertilizer (nitrogen) from the birds and bugs, as well as
whatever minerals leach from your roof.




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Bill wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:b3YEi.144585$rX4.5901@pd7urf2no...

Kurt Ullman wrote:

When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is a
good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to. So, comments? Also, we would use the
outside faucets (spigots, whatever) to put water in the pool when opening
and occassionally during the rest of the season.


Hi,
Little off topic, we noticed BIG difference when we water the plants with
rain water(we collect it from down spouts, we have 3 barrels storing rain
water) and using softened or regular tap water.
Rain water is best.



It might not have anything to do with tap/softened water. That "rainwater"
acually contains fertilizer (nitrogen) from the birds and bugs, as well as
whatever minerals leach from your roof.


Hmmm,
Minerals from Cedar shake? Birds, bugs, squirrels, yes.
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"Tony Hwang" wrote

Little off topic, we noticed BIG difference when we water the plants with
rain water(we collect it from down spouts, we have 3 barrels storing rain
water) and using softened or regular tap water.
Rain water is best.


Even more off topic ...........

I have a new Kinetico softener in the house. Had I been eligible to vote on
the thing, I would have gotten a much cheaper model from the Borg or online.
But that's another issue for another thread.

I have the luxury of irrigation water. A 1 1/2" line off the 14" main that
supplies irrigation water to all the rural residences in my area. I pay
$100 per year, no metering. So, all outside hose bibs and water manifolds
are tied into this line. Anything I can attach to the line and as much
water as I can run through it. I run MaxiPaw Rainbirds on the yard. Nearly
five dozen bubblers to the trees. On some of the stations, I am maxed out,
so I run them more frequently.

Sometimes living at the end of the road has its advantages.

Steve


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"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
newsIZEi.145183$rX4.118238@pd7urf2no...
Bill wrote:



It might not have anything to do with tap/softened water. That
"rainwater" acually contains fertilizer (nitrogen) from the birds and
bugs, as well as whatever minerals leach from your roof.

Hmmm,
Minerals from Cedar shake? Birds, bugs, squirrels, yes.


Probably more so than asphalt shingles. Whatever fallout that gets on your
roof is gonna sit there on the nice damp wood shingles with plenty of time
for the acidity of the rain to help dissolve it. With asphalt, the more
fallout probably washes off the roof in larger particles, and sits in the
bottom of the holding barrel.


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Doug,

I agree with him. Calcium can make a real mess of plumbing and fixtures.
If you want hard water for drinking and cooking then put a line to the
kitchen from before the softener but soften everything else.
I have very hard water. If I only softened the hot water then all of my
faucets, et c. would still be exposed to fairly hard water. Less hard maybe
but still quite hard. There would be no real benefit.

Dave M.


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In article , "David Martel" wrote:
Doug,

I agree with him. Calcium can make a real mess of plumbing and fixtures.
If you want hard water for drinking and cooking then put a line to the
kitchen from before the softener but soften everything else.
I have very hard water. If I only softened the hot water then all of my
faucets, et c. would still be exposed to fairly hard water. Less hard maybe
but still quite hard. There would be no real benefit.


How hard the mixture will be obviously is dependent on how hard the water is
to begin with -- but the idea that mixing hard and soft water produces water
just as hard as it was to begin with is absolute nonsense. Whether you
perceive a benefit or not is subjective, but there *is* a difference. Water
hardness is measured in grains per gallon; regardless of what hardness level
'x' you might have in your water, if you mix a gallon of it with a gallon of
water of hardness zero, you *obviously* have a hardless level of one-half 'x'.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


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On Sep 9, 3:01 pm, "Bill" wrote:
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

news:b3YEi.144585$rX4.5901@pd7urf2no...





Kurt Ullman wrote:
When our house was built, it was plumbed in such a way that we can't
add a water softener w/o also putting softened water through the outside
faucets. I am getting conflicting information on whether or not this is a
good idea from the standpoint of watering flowers, etc. The main
sprinklers for the grass are in-ground and between the meter and the
house, so they aren't impacted. It would mainly be watering the flowers
in the planters around the house and one small grassy area that the
in-ground sprinklers don't get to. So, comments? Also, we would use the
outside faucets (spigots, whatever) to put water in the pool when opening
and occassionally during the rest of the season.

Hi,
Little off topic, we noticed BIG difference when we water the plants with
rain water(we collect it from down spouts, we have 3 barrels storing rain
water) and using softened or regular tap water.
Rain water is best.


It might not have anything to do with tap/softened water. That "rainwater"
acually contains fertilizer (nitrogen) from the birds and bugs, as well as
whatever minerals leach from your roof.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


My experience is that using NaCl softend water will eventually kill
practically all vegetation, at least here in Minnesota.

We moved into our home in the winter of 2001. The previous owner came
by in the spring to pick up a few things and I asked him about an area
in the front yard adjacent to the tree line. It was an area that just
looked dead. Black dirt, nothing at all growing, no weeds, no grass,
nothing. He said he thought it was related to the trees. He said he
had planted and fertilized and watered, grass would start and after a
couple of months die.

That summer I tried the same. planted, fertilized, watered..and the
spot grew! By the end of the summer the spot had grown to over half
the front yard, about 3,000 sq. ft.

That fall, my water softner failed and after much research on
softners, replaced it. The installer asked if I know of any problems
with the split outside water. Huh???
The outside faucet in the front of the house is softened water, the
outside faucet in the back is hard water. A whole Christmas tree of
lightbulbs when off. Apparently in the neighborhood I am in it is
common to have a softend water outstide faucet for cleaning windows
and the car.

The following spring I reseeded, mixed in poatassium into the soil,
and watered (from the back this time). Almost the same results,
except the spot began to shrink. It has taken three years to mostly
get the lawn back to normal.

By the way, I now have a brass tag on the front faucet that says
"Softened water, not for use on plants."

I am not saying other things can't harm your plants and lawn, I just
say that consistently using NaCl softened water on plants is harmful.

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On Sep 10, 6:44 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:

As the OP, the question the becomes, if I am going to spend (quite) a
few bucks to get a plumber in, do some repiping, etc., why would I *NOT*
just go ahead and do both sides? What is the up side doing only one?


If you are interested in the correct answer the question is best
addressed by a local water treatment professional.

If you are interested in taking an adhoc poll from a bunch of
strangers with keyboards and getting the wrong answer then this is the
place to do it ;-)


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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 10, 7:47 am, Bruce wrote:

By the way, I now have a brass tag on the front faucet that says
"Softened water, not for use on plants."

I am not saying other things can't harm your plants and lawn, I just
say that consistently using NaCl softened water on plants is harmful.


Bruce,

Water treatment professionals, gardeners, and chemistry are in total
agteement with that statement... and it's true.


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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 10, 8:00 am, Smitty Two wrote:

Well, one upside is you won't feel quite as slimy getting out of the
shower.


The "slimy" card... often played and rarely understood.

Here's some info on "soap and softened water"
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0332.Ch.r.html




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Default Softened water on plants

In article .com,
wrote:

On Sep 10, 8:00 am, Smitty Two wrote:

Well, one upside is you won't feel quite as slimy getting out of the
shower.


The "slimy" card... often played and rarely understood.

Here's some info on "soap and softened water"
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0332.Ch.r.html

My father was a university chemistry professor. The lab manual he wrote
to accompany the textbook he wrote contains my photograph, in the
chapter on soap and detergents. So yeah, I understand the slimy card.
And I still hate soft water. YMMV.
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Default Softened water on plants

According to :

The simple, and cost effective answer to your question is... get a
properly sized and setup industry standard softener from a water
treatment professional, soften the ENTIRE house, and set the softener
to use KCl (potassium chloride) as a regenerant.


What if you're on a sodium, or worse, potassium reduced diet? ;-)

Why on earth would you deliberately soften water to the exterior
hose bibs if you can avoid it?
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 10, 8:31 am, Smitty Two wrote:

My father was a university chemistry professor. The lab manual he wrote
to accompany the textbook he wrote contains my photograph, in the
chapter on soap and detergents. So yeah, I understand the slimy card.
And I still hate soft water. YMMV.


I respect an INFORMED choice.




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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 10, 8:32 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:

What if you're on a sodium, or worse, potassium reduced diet? ;-)

Why on earth would you deliberately soften water to the exterior
hose bibs if you can avoid it?
--
Chris Lewis,


In new construction the plumbing options are only limited by available
money and the plumber's skills. Any configuration can be done and
often is.

For the millions and millions who have homes built on a slab or the
plumbing is not accessible (for a variety of reasons) changing the
plumbing configuration is (at least) not cost effective. If one lives
where there is considerable hardness in the water and a softener is
desired (for whatever reasons) then the choice is...

a) soften the entire house

b) soften the cold water supply to the water heater

c) do nothing and live with the water you have

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Default Softened water on plants

Doug,

How hard the mixture will be obviously is dependent on how hard the water
is
to begin with -- but the idea that mixing hard and soft water produces
water
just as hard as it was to begin with is absolute nonsense.


Yeah, I said less hard but still hard in my post. Not sure what you
thought I meant.

Whether you
perceive a benefit or not is subjective, but there *is* a difference.
Water
hardness is measured in grains per gallon; regardless of what hardness
level
'x' you might have in your water, if you mix a gallon of it with a gallon
of
water of hardness zero, you *obviously* have a hardless level of one-half
'x'.



My water is hard, about 35 gpg. So using your plan of softening only the
water heater will accomplish what? Let's run the shower. Mostly hot water,
sure but I do like to run a bit of cold. So what's the hardness of the water
running through the cold pipes and faucet (35 gpg), and what's the hardness
of the water running through the shower head (I'm guessing 3 gpg)? Still
pretty hard so the cold pipes, cold faucet and shower head will all begin to
clog due to deposits. And the soap won't suds. So what advantage is gained
by only softening the hot water?
Every sink in my house has an aerator screen. With your plan I'd be
replacing them often. The washing machine cold water valve would clog and
the soap would not suds. Your plan would fail to do anything for more than
half the plumbing and fixtures in a house.
The plan is to reduce the hardness of the water to the point where the
soap suds well, and there are't clogging deposits.

Dave M.



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Default Softened water on plants

On Sep 10, 9:53 am, wrote:
On Sep 10, 6:44 am, Kurt Ullman wrote:



As the OP, the question the becomes, if I am going to spend (quite) a
few bucks to get a plumber in, do some repiping, etc., why would I *NOT*
just go ahead and do both sides? What is the up side doing only one?


If you are interested in the correct answer the question is best
addressed by a local water treatment professional.

If you are interested in taking an adhoc poll from a bunch of
strangers with keyboards and getting the wrong answer then this is the
place to do it ;-)


In your case of giving bad advice yes... otherwise the internet is a
great source of information. Above you said
Kineticos are great softeners and have a large and loyal customer
base. They are "ion exchange" softeners and follow the same rules of
chemistry and physica as ALL other ion exchange softeners.


Kinetico uses Sybron C-249 regular mesh and C-266 fine mesh resins.

They use Structural resin tanks. And probably Clack salt tanks and
associated parts.

Local and internet dealers use those same materials/component parts
and others for their softeners that are basically the same and all are
industry standard.

Kinetico manufactures their proprietary water powered control valves,
or has it done for them by someone else, the same as Fleck does; yes
parts of Fleck valves are not made by them.

Autotrol, Erie, Fleck, Clack and Kinetico control valves basically all
do the same job with slight differences. Question to you justalurker,
what makes a Kinetico softener better than the others?

Gary Slusser
Quality Water Associates

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