This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe

on 8/28/2007 5:27 AM said the following:
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe


So, what are you worrying about? It seems he thinks he can do it
himself. Offer no advice but have a video camera handy when he starts
and if anything spectacular happens, you can submit the video to the
Darwin Awards web site.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

wrote:

This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe

Sounds like an easy job for a house moving company. I expect they would
probably setup and array of cribbing and jacks in the basement to take
most of the weight off the sills / foundation to the point where they
could jack against the sill horizontally with suitable cribbing and
anchors and nugde things back into alignment. After it's realigned the
sill should be anchored to the foundation with proper fasteners.

wrote:
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. ...
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?
....

If water piled up enough against the house itself to move it, probably
lucky that it wasn't tied solidly to the foundation or might have
collapsed the basement wall as well. If it were block almost certainly
would have, poured had a better chance.

Not that it shouldn't be, but given the water/drainage wasn't adequate,
he may have gotten off w/ the lesser problem since it didn't go floating
away down the hill entirely.

Anyway, you can't simply push or pull it w/o raising it at least some --
undoubtedly one of the things the water did was to partially tip it
downhill, raising the back slightly and thereby reducing the area
solidly sitting on the foundation and reducing the friction forces
significantly. Probably was also pretty wet so had some lubrication
from the water besides. IOW, I'm guessing it slid a whole lot easier
during that time than it's going to going back.

You're right you'll undoubtedly just pull the sill plate/rim joist off
if you/he try to pull w/o lift and if you attempt to put a cable or
chain around the whole thing you'll simply collapse the corners.

Someone else pointed out the key -- cribbing and jacking. As he also
said, housemovers have all this stuff and do similar things all the
time--while it's possible to do it for a small structure as this one
sounds as though it is, it's unlikely you/he will have anyways near the
amount of gear that would be needed and by the time its rented or
purchase you'll have a goodly fraction of the cost of the mover in it
and he'll be done while your still trying to figure out what is needed
and rounding it up...

The insurance carrier contact is good idea, too--comprehensive just
might cover some of the cost...

--

Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation would place
the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its flange, and shear off all
the plumbing lines and possibly any wires that were embedded in the slab.
Finished floors would all be out of position and doors would not close
properly along with many other problems.


wrote in message
...
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe

EXT wrote:
Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation ...

....
...pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. ...

It was clearly stated NOT constructed on a slab...

--

On Aug 28, 12:57 pm, "EXT" wrote:
Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation would place
the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its flange, and shear off all
the plumbing lines and possibly any wires that were embedded in the slab.
Finished floors would all be out of position and doors would not close
properly along with many other problems.

wrote in message

...



This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

sounds like a troll, to move a house 3" there would need to be enough
water to have flooded it and have done extensive water damage inside,
and his drains, Ng and water pipes are all fine-right, and he built it
and would even try a come along, unless its a 15x15 ft shack

"dpb" wrote in message ...
EXT wrote:
Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation ...

...
...pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. ...

It was clearly stated NOT constructed on a slab...

If the house was NOT on a slab, but on a regular poured concrete or concrete
block foundation, it will be impossible to drag the house back without
collapsing some of the walls, in fact I cannot believe that the house has
moved 3" on such a foundation without some damage, especially since 2x4s
would only be left with about a 1/2" purchase on the edge of such foundation
walls. Must be a troll.

EXT wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
EXT wrote:
Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation ...

...
...pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. ...
It was clearly stated NOT constructed on a slab...

If the house was NOT on a slab, but on a regular poured concrete or concrete
block foundation, it will be impossible to drag the house back without
collapsing some of the walls, in fact I cannot believe that the house has
moved 3" on such a foundation without some damage, especially since 2x4s
would only be left with about a 1/2" purchase on the edge of such foundation
walls. Must be a troll.

Could be, but I've seen far more incredible things than this sounds like...

--

On Aug 28, 7:01 pm, "EXT" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in ...
EXT wrote:
Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation ...

...
...pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. ...

It was clearly stated NOT constructed on a slab...

If the house was NOT on a slab, but on a regular poured concrete or concrete
block foundation, it will be impossible to drag the house back without
collapsing some of the walls, in fact I cannot believe that the house has
moved 3" on such a foundation without some damage, especially since 2x4s
would only be left with about a 1/2" purchase on the edge of such foundation
walls. Must be a troll.

- "especially since 2x4s would only be left with about a 1/2"
purchase on the edge of such foundation walls."

I'm not saying it's not a troll, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding the
significance of what your are saying.

My house sits atop a block wall. There's a 2 x 6 sill plate lying flat
on top of the blocks and the first floor joists sit on top of that.
Theoretically the house could slide 3" in any direction and the
"worst" sill plate would still have 2 1/2" purchase.

wrote:
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe
Hi,
I don't know the solution which seems to belong to epxperts.
But I wonder how building moves without basement moving?

I agree, plus to have enough water pressure to move it at all, I doubt it
would stop at 3". I'll bet you'd have to have a foot or two of water up on
the wall rushing pretty quick to get it started. And it's a lot eaiser to
keep moving, than it is to start moving, so......


steve



"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
If the house was NOT on a slab, but on a regular poured concrete or
concrete block foundation, it will be impossible to drag the house back
without collapsing some of the walls, in fact I cannot believe that the
house has moved 3" on such a foundation without some damage, especially
since 2x4s would only be left with about a 1/2" purchase on the edge of
such foundation walls. Must be a troll.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
news:104Bi.101781$rX4.63825@pd7urf2no...
wrote:
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense. What he cant figure is
how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think? On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of
brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe
Hi,
I don't know the solution which seems to belong to epxperts.
But I wonder how building moves without basement moving?
Rent 'Wizard of Oz' for a demo. If it ain't bolted down, and gets enough
upward lift on one side from wind and/or water, it'll move all right. I've
seen it first-hand, cleaning up after a tornado in a cheap-ass subdivision.
More or less intact house picked up, rotated slightly, and set back down
about a foot off the foundation walls. Saw the same thing in Louisiana
post-Katrina/Retah, from storm surge. Consider the relative masses involved.
Water is, IIRC, about 65 pounds a cubic foot. If that water is moving
several miles per hour, that is a lot of inertia to dissipate as it slams
into the house. Like a giant hand that won't stop pushing.

Like a previous poster said, with a block basement, it usually caves in the
wall on upstream side. A poured-wall basement with enough rebar, if there is
a way for the water to go around, will do better. In some situations, if
ground gets super-saturated and basement hasn't filled to equalize the
pressure, it can pop out of ground like a swimming pool, septic tank, or
grave vault. Literally floats to the top. For something as big as a house,
that would take some scary-extreme conditions.

aem sends....

Be a sight though, don't ya think?

s

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
can pop out of ground like a swimming pool, septic tank, or
grave vault. Literally floats to the top. For something as big as a house,
that would take some scary-extreme conditions.

aem sends....

Steve Barker LT wrote:

Be a sight though, don't ya think?

s

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
can pop out of ground like a swimming pool, septic tank, or
grave vault. Literally floats to the top. For something as big as a house,
that would take some scary-extreme conditions.

aem sends....


I've seen some old film from a 1955 I think it was flood in NW CT which
shows three story brick buildings floating down main street. Doesn't get
much more impressive than that.

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:57:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation would place
the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its flange, and shear off all
the plumbing lines and possibly any wires that were embedded in the slab.
Finished floors would all be out of position and doors would not close
properly along with many other problems.


If you think I am a troll, go look at this photo.
http://couleeonline.com/upload/photos/17/1774.jpg

This is one of the worst cases in which this house floated down stream
and stopped on top of railroad tracks from this same storm.

We have had severe flooding in this area, covering the states of MN,
WI, and IA. Being a hilly area, some houses floated, others slid down
hills ending in the road, and some completely collapsed. You can see
many more photos of this storm by going to www.wkbt.com and clicking
on "viewers photos".

The house I am referring to is in an area that had lesser flooding,
but enough water came down the hill behind the house to cause the
house to shift 3" on it's poured concrete basement walls (NOT a slab).
No, the toilet did not shift, but the PVC pipes were strained where
they exit the wall to the septic. The romex wires all remained intact
but some of the staples popped where they were stapled to the sill
plate. He has since taken the strain off the pipes and wires by
extending a few of the wires and temporarily modifying the drain pipe
with a fernco coupler. In some ways, I think the pipe and wires may
have helped keep the house from completely shifting off the
foundation.

I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

The homeowner has no insurance and we are all happy to assist him.
Actually, we find it a challenge. The house was not structurally
damaged so this should work. When we move the house, the breaker box
will have the power cut and it will hang loose and the plumbing drain
pipe will be disconnected. We also have had to remove the vinyl siding
along the bottom edge of the house.

The yard will be modified afterwards to make for better draining. At
least two feet of mud came down that hill and was piled against the
house. This has now been removed with skid loaders. We plan to create
a ditch at the base of the hill to allow water to run off to the sides
of the house and the soil removed will create a dike of sorts.
Hopefully there will not be another storm like this again, but it
happened once so it could happen again.

Joe

-----------------

wrote in message
.. .
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe

wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:57:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation would place
the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its flange, and shear off all
the plumbing lines and possibly any wires that were embedded in the slab.
Finished floors would all be out of position and doors would not close
properly along with many other problems.


If you think I am a troll, go look at this photo.
http://couleeonline.com/upload/photos/17/1774.jpg

This is one of the worst cases in which this house floated down stream
and stopped on top of railroad tracks from this same storm.

We have had severe flooding in this area, covering the states of MN,
WI, and IA. Being a hilly area, some houses floated, others slid down
hills ending in the road, and some completely collapsed. You can see
many more photos of this storm by going to www.wkbt.com and clicking
on "viewers photos".

The house I am referring to is in an area that had lesser flooding,
but enough water came down the hill behind the house to cause the
house to shift 3" on it's poured concrete basement walls (NOT a slab).
No, the toilet did not shift, but the PVC pipes were strained where
they exit the wall to the septic. The romex wires all remained intact
but some of the staples popped where they were stapled to the sill
plate. He has since taken the strain off the pipes and wires by
extending a few of the wires and temporarily modifying the drain pipe
with a fernco coupler. In some ways, I think the pipe and wires may
have helped keep the house from completely shifting off the
foundation.

I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

The homeowner has no insurance and we are all happy to assist him.
Actually, we find it a challenge. The house was not structurally
damaged so this should work. When we move the house, the breaker box
will have the power cut and it will hang loose and the plumbing drain
pipe will be disconnected. We also have had to remove the vinyl siding
along the bottom edge of the house.

The yard will be modified afterwards to make for better draining. At
least two feet of mud came down that hill and was piled against the
house. This has now been removed with skid loaders. We plan to create
a ditch at the base of the hill to allow water to run off to the sides
of the house and the soil removed will create a dike of sorts.
Hopefully there will not be another storm like this again, but it
happened once so it could happen again.

Joe

-----------------

wrote in message
.. .
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe


I hope you're taking pictures throughout your moving attempt. Seems like
an interesting method, I've done similar to move a 40' container.

wrote:

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:57:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation would place
the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its flange, and shear off all
the plumbing lines and possibly any wires that were embedded in the slab.
Finished floors would all be out of position and doors would not close
properly along with many other problems.


If you think I am a troll, go look at this photo.
http://couleeonline.com/upload/photos/17/1774.jpg

This is one of the worst cases in which this house floated down stream
and stopped on top of railroad tracks from this same storm.

We have had severe flooding in this area, covering the states of MN,
WI, and IA. Being a hilly area, some houses floated, others slid down
hills ending in the road, and some completely collapsed. You can see
many more photos of this storm by going to www.wkbt.com and clicking
on "viewers photos".

The house I am referring to is in an area that had lesser flooding,
but enough water came down the hill behind the house to cause the
house to shift 3" on it's poured concrete basement walls (NOT a slab).
No, the toilet did not shift, but the PVC pipes were strained where
they exit the wall to the septic. The romex wires all remained intact
but some of the staples popped where they were stapled to the sill
plate. He has since taken the strain off the pipes and wires by
extending a few of the wires and temporarily modifying the drain pipe
with a fernco coupler. In some ways, I think the pipe and wires may
have helped keep the house from completely shifting off the
foundation.

I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

The homeowner has no insurance and we are all happy to assist him.
Actually, we find it a challenge. The house was not structurally
damaged so this should work. When we move the house, the breaker box
will have the power cut and it will hang loose and the plumbing drain
pipe will be disconnected. We also have had to remove the vinyl siding
along the bottom edge of the house.

The yard will be modified afterwards to make for better draining. At
least two feet of mud came down that hill and was piled against the
house. This has now been removed with skid loaders. We plan to create
a ditch at the base of the hill to allow water to run off to the sides
of the house and the soil removed will create a dike of sorts.
Hopefully there will not be another storm like this again, but it
happened once so it could happen again.

Joe

-----------------

wrote in message
.. .
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill behind
his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the poured
concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but they are
worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday he had a
guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the rear of the
house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and put the soil
from the trench on top. He said that way the water should channel
around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs. I
explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the concrete
walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as the house
is pulled back. The question is how to get the house pulled back. He
seems to think he can do it with a few come-alongs. I personally dont
think that they are strong enough. This is a smaller house, but it's
still heavy. This house is in a rural area. My suggestion is two
powerful tractors with chains, and just inch it along. But then comes
the next question, what to hook the chains to? I think the sill plate
would just pull off and chains or steel cables need to go around the
entire house, and said to take off the bottom siding before doing it.
What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with vinyl
siding.

Joe


One other comment: Do not attempt to pull the house with tractors for a
3" move, you just won't have the control. Use the tractors as anchors
and use manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks to allow much finer
control.

wrote:
....
I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

The homeowner has no insurance and we are all happy to assist him.
....

I agree overall w/ Pete C, but I still don't think the cable around the
corners is a good idea at all -- angle or no, you're highly likely to
pull the corners in imo. If you decide to try it, pay close attention.
But, if it's like most frame construction, there isn't much more than
some 16d spikes in the corners and the corner stress panel and you're
putting a point load at that location.

I also agree if you decide to try to pull, don't use the tractor itself
but an abundance of comealongs in concert or the hydraulics on your
loaders--I would assume every farmer has at least one tractor w/ a
loader. Oh, one possible way to get away with it -- if you all have
hydrostatic transmissions, then you may have sufficient control, but the
one guy w/ a direct-drive has a problem.

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push. That worked well when
re-straightening the barn here. If this is a small house as you say,
the other possibility to pull is the long beam against the bottom side
and attach to it on each end. Same caution about using a tractor to do
the actual pulling.

Good luck, and tell the guy to buy some insurance--there's frugal and
then there's cheap...

--

On 2007-08-29, dpb wrote:

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push.

If this is a one-story house over a basement, how about applying force
at the level of the floor diaphragm?

Wayne

Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-08-29, dpb wrote:

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push.

If this is a one-story house over a basement, how about applying force
at the level of the floor diaphragm?

Good point/thought...depends on whether conventional joist or truss and
how constructed. Typically the sill plate and directly above will be
the most solid point but if is truss, might be as well at the top chord
although I'd be inclined to try to spread it across the top and bottom
chords I think...

--

On Aug 29, 3:06 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-08-29, dpb wrote:

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push.

If this is a one-story house over a basement, how about applying force
at the level of the floor diaphragm?

Wayne

I would not use tractors, use a electric winch, or heavy duty come
along, and speeed reducing, power increasing Block and Tackle.
Cranes lift heavy loads because of Block and Tackle. The problem is
what to attach it to so you dont rip apart the house. A winch may be
to fast.

ransley wrote:
On Aug 29, 3:06 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-08-29, dpb wrote:

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push.
If this is a one-story house over a basement, how about applying force
at the level of the floor diaphragm?

Wayne

I would not use tractors, use a electric winch, or heavy duty come
along, and speeed reducing, power increasing Block and Tackle.
Cranes lift heavy loads because of Block and Tackle. The problem is
what to attach it to so you dont rip apart the house. A winch may be
to fast.

I'll agree w/ the last. Heavy come-alongs are indeed an option other
than they pull instead of push which unless there's a better attachment
than the cable around the corners isn't a primo choice imo...

Having moved a lot of stuff w/ tractors, I'll attest one can be pretty
doggone delicate if have the right stuff -- that means either the
hydrostatic tranny and/or hydraulics, not a fixed-speed manual
transmission on a chain. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in being
certain I could nudge it along a fraction of an inch at a time w/ my bucket.

--

wrote:
....
I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.
....

Actually, I let you sidetrack me somewhat...

Take those bottle jacks and set them on side and use the tractor or
something else solid and push against a paul...w/ only a few inches to
go, it'll be a piece of cake and no danger at all of too far...

--

dpb wrote:

ransley wrote:
On Aug 29, 3:06 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-08-29, dpb wrote:

I would much prefer the heavy beam between the sill plate and my loader
bucket lip and then apply pressure there to push.
If this is a one-story house over a basement, how about applying force
at the level of the floor diaphragm?

Wayne

I would not use tractors, use a electric winch, or heavy duty come
along, and speeed reducing, power increasing Block and Tackle.
Cranes lift heavy loads because of Block and Tackle. The problem is
what to attach it to so you dont rip apart the house. A winch may be
to fast.

I'll agree w/ the last. Heavy come-alongs are indeed an option other
than they pull instead of push which unless there's a better attachment
than the cable around the corners isn't a primo choice imo...

Having moved a lot of stuff w/ tractors, I'll attest one can be pretty
doggone delicate if have the right stuff -- that means either the
hydrostatic tranny and/or hydraulics, not a fixed-speed manual
transmission on a chain. I'd have no hesitation whatsoever in being
certain I could nudge it along a fraction of an inch at a time w/ my bucket.

--

One key feature of the manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks used in
that capacity is the feedback they give as to the load on them,
something you do not get with powered hydraulics. Yes, with my backhoe I
could lift and position materials very slowly and to a fraction of an
inch, but there was no difference whether I was lifting a 1,000# log or
a 200# generator. Particularly when pulling from multiple points that
load feedback is very helpful in telling where things are moving freely
and where they are stuck.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:59:52 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote Re House shifting off foundation:

One other comment: Do not attempt to pull the house with tractors for a
3" move, you just won't have the control. Use the tractors as anchors
and use manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks to allow much finer
control.

This seems like good advice. Using 5 or 6 (or more) come-a-longs will
give much better control.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:57:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

Is this a troll -- to have a house move 3" on a slab foundation
would place the toilet in the wrong location or broken off its
flange, and shear off all the plumbing lines and possibly any wires
that were embedded in the slab. Finished floors would all be out of
position and doors would not close properly along with many other
problems.


If you think I am a troll, go look at this photo.
http://couleeonline.com/upload/photos/17/1774.jpg

This is one of the worst cases in which this house floated down stream
and stopped on top of railroad tracks from this same storm.

We have had severe flooding in this area, covering the states of MN,
WI, and IA. Being a hilly area, some houses floated, others slid down
hills ending in the road, and some completely collapsed. You can see
many more photos of this storm by going to www.wkbt.com and clicking
on "viewers photos".

The house I am referring to is in an area that had lesser flooding,
but enough water came down the hill behind the house to cause the
house to shift 3" on it's poured concrete basement walls (NOT a slab).
No, the toilet did not shift, but the PVC pipes were strained where
they exit the wall to the septic. The romex wires all remained intact
but some of the staples popped where they were stapled to the sill
plate. He has since taken the strain off the pipes and wires by
extending a few of the wires and temporarily modifying the drain pipe
with a fernco coupler. In some ways, I think the pipe and wires may
have helped keep the house from completely shifting off the
foundation.

I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

Could you get angle iron to go to the roof from the base? I think that
you are right to pull from the base but guess that the angle iron needs
to be on the two stongest parts and not the intermediate. There's a
serious risk of crushing it.

The homeowner has no insurance and we are all happy to assist him.
Actually, we find it a challenge. The house was not structurally
damaged so this should work. When we move the house, the breaker box
will have the power cut and it will hang loose and the plumbing drain
pipe will be disconnected. We also have had to remove the vinyl siding
along the bottom edge of the house.

The yard will be modified afterwards to make for better draining. At
least two feet of mud came down that hill and was piled against the
house. This has now been removed with skid loaders. We plan to create
a ditch at the base of the hill to allow water to run off to the sides
of the house and the soil removed will create a dike of sorts.
Hopefully there will not be another storm like this again, but it
happened once so it could happen again.

Joe

-----------------

wrote in message
...
This is about my neighbors house. They live nearby and we recently
had real heavy rain and flooding. The water came down the hill
behind his house and pushed the house about 3 inches forward on the
poured concrete foundation basement. The house is still solid, but
they are worried about further rain, which is predicted. Yesterday
he had a guy come with a skidloader and dig a trench around the
rear of the house, put down plastic tarps closer to the house and
put the soil from the trench on top. He said that way the water
should channel around the house, and that seems to make sense.

What he cant figure is how to get the house pulled back the 3" it
shifted. Knowing this guy, he wont hire any outside pros. He built
the house himself and insists he can get it back where it belongs.
I explained to him that he neglected to bolt the house to the
concrete walls, and he agreed and said he plans to do it as soon as
the house is pulled back. The question is how to get the house
pulled back. He seems to think he can do it with a few
come-alongs. I personally dont think that they are strong enough.
This is a smaller house, but it's still heavy. This house is in a
rural area. My suggestion is two powerful tractors with chains,
and just inch it along. But then comes the next question, what to
hook the chains to? I think the sill plate would just pull off and
chains or steel cables need to go around the entire house, and said
to take off the bottom siding before doing it. What do you think?

On the other hand, I thought he could add a layer of brick on the
inside of the basement in the rear and on the outside in front, but
that almost seems like more work, and definately more cost than
pulling the house back.

He was lucky to not have any pipes or wires break, and there is no
solid chimney so there is little to worry about except the house
itself. The house is only 3 years old, stick built framed with
vinyl siding.

Joe

Pete C. wrote:
....

One key feature of the manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks used in
that capacity is the feedback they give as to the load on them,...

See my other response on my preferred suggested technique...

--

dpb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
...

One key feature of the manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks used in
that capacity is the feedback they give as to the load on them,...

See my other response on my preferred suggested technique...

--

Yes, but hydraulic jacks, even being manual, don't give you very good
feedback as to the force applied do to their very high ratio. The
come-a-longs and high lift jacks are lower ratio and provide better
feedback.

Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
...

One key feature of the manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks used in
that capacity is the feedback they give as to the load on them,...
See my other response on my preferred suggested technique...

--

Yes, but hydraulic jacks, even being manual, don't give you very good
feedback as to the force applied do to their very high ratio. The
come-a-longs and high lift jacks are lower ratio and provide better
feedback.

But it's a lot harder to get them to push...

--

dpb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
...

One key feature of the manual come-a-longs or high lift jacks used in
that capacity is the feedback they give as to the load on them,...
See my other response on my preferred suggested technique...

--

Yes, but hydraulic jacks, even being manual, don't give you very good
feedback as to the force applied do to their very high ratio. The
come-a-longs and high lift jacks are lower ratio and provide better
feedback.

But it's a lot harder to get them to push...

--

A high lift jack does both. Real handy gadget. I used a high lift jack,
a couple chains, shackles, slings and a half dozen logs to move a 40'
container (near 10k#) over rough terrain about 60' and then level it
onto stacked solid concrete blocks by myself It didn't hurt that it
was a heavily wooded area so I had anchors anywhere I wanted.

wrote:

I think we have found a solution to get the house back where it
belongs. We have taken some heavy duty bottle jacks and have been
lifting the house a litttle at a time to place pieces of 1/2 solid
steel rod under the sill to act as rollers. This is a slow process.
Once we have these rods under the entire sill, a few of us farmers are
going to run a cable around the entire house at the sill plate, and
using large angle iron on the corners to keep the wood intact, we will
pull the house back with our tractors. To insure it dont go back too
far, we plan to dig a few 8 inch fence posts in the ground in the rear
and put old tractor tires on them to act as bumpers. When the house
is back in place, we will have to remove all the rollers and then bolt
it to the foundation.

I think you'd be better off with come-alongs, a winch, or chain fall.
It will be hard to get the accuracy you need with tractors.

--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://stj911.org
http://stopthelie.com/1-hour_guide_to_911.html
http://www.911truth.org

Hello? That was last week. I would hope they have it bolted down and are
drinking beer by now.


s


"Henry" wrote in message
...
I think you'd be better off with come-alongs, a winch, or chain fall.
It will be hard to get the accuracy you need with tractors.

--

How do you build a house without inspections... He did say 3 years ago
right..? 2004 not 1904..? Or is the house in malaysia..?

I would think if you're smart and patient enough to build a house, you
would not leave out the obvious step of fastening it to the
foundation..?

3 inches is a long way to move.. I still say this couldn' t happen
without at least one wall moving a different distance than the other
3... The op wants you to believe all 4 walls moved the same distance..??

Impossible..didn't happen..
I would imagine during construction, you'd notice you're not tied down
when you start loading up those walls and tying them together etc...

How do you build a house without inspections... He did say 3 years ago
right..? 2004 not 1904..? Or is the house in malaysia..?

I would think if you're smart and patient enough to build a house, you
would not leave out the obvious step of fastening it to the
foundation..?

3 inches is a long way to move.. I still say this couldn' t happen
without at least one wall moving a different distance than the other
3... The op wants you to believe all 4 walls moved the same distance..??

Impossible..didn't happen..
I would imagine during construction, you'd notice you're not tied down
when you start loading up those walls and tying them together etc...

"Charles Pisano" wrote in message
...
How do you build a house without inspections... He did say 3 years ago
right..? 2004 not 1904..? Or is the house in malaysia..?

I would think if you're smart and patient enough to build a house, you
would not leave out the obvious step of fastening it to the
foundation..?

3 inches is a long way to move.. I still say this couldn' t happen
without at least one wall moving a different distance than the other
3... The op wants you to believe all 4 walls moved the same distance..??

Impossible..didn't happen..
I would imagine during construction, you'd notice you're not tied down
when you start loading up those walls and tying them together etc...

Happens all the time, especially on partial-crawlspace, or crawlspace-only
houses. The walls don't sit on the sill plate, the floor system does. It is
a relatively strong box section, with lots of T joints and the floor decking
(and X-braces between joists) to keep it square. The framing subcontractor,
like in a subdivision, bids the work as a package. Once the foundation
inspection is signed off, they want to get in and out fast. By the time they
finish laying down the sill plates, the other guys on crew are already
laying out the joists and rim joists, and starting the decking. There is a
very short window to apply the washers and nuts and torque them down, from
above. Task is often assigned to the kid on the crew, and is regarded as
scut work. If kid is lazy, or the real carpenter that is supposed to be
watching him is lazy, the bolt-down get skipped. It is a pain to do it from
below after floor gets decked, and a pain for the inspector to look on later
visits, so it often falls through the cracks. Floor system is still solid
without it, and nothing will move around unless there is a high wind, so
nothing will raise a red flag after the the floor is decked. The J-bolts
mudded into foundation are usually only an inch at most above the top of the
sill plate, so house has to rise 2.5 to 3 inches before it can shift
sideways. 999 houses out of 1000, the wind (or floodwater) will never get
that bad. I have seen 40 year old houses with the washers and nuts missing,
that never moved at all.

Yes, it would be unusual for house to move and stay perfectly square- it
usually gets twisted. But on a small well-framed house, it may be stiff
enough to look intact and square. So I do find OP's story plausible. I bet
the doors and windows all stick now, though.

aem sends...

there are plenty of places in this here US of A that don't have government
intervention in building.

steve


"Charles Pisano" wrote in message
...
How do you build a house without inspections... He did say 3 years ago
right..? 2004 not 1904..? Or is the house in malaysia..?

I would think if you're smart and patient enough to build a house, you
would not leave out the obvious step of fastening it to the
foundation..?

3 inches is a long way to move.. I still say this couldn' t happen
without at least one wall moving a different distance than the other
3... The op wants you to believe all 4 walls moved the same distance..??

Impossible..didn't happen..
I would imagine during construction, you'd notice you're not tied down
when you start loading up those walls and tying them together etc...