[Dwight]

I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb

[professorpaul]

In ham radio, you are into the "stealth" antenna game. Not seen, not
there... This is the standard problem when you are in a development
with deed restrictions and can't have an outside antenna.

Consider one of these:

1. Feed your FM tuner from the cable network. Use a 75 ohm cable to
300 ohm twinlead transformer -- radio shack. You might also need a
line splitter, in the event that you have a TV connected to the outlet
you wish to use. If you have a "Type F" connector on the back of the
FM receiver, then you don't need the balun transformer, and can feed
it directly. This is usually the best bet, but be aware that some
cable providers do not provide an FM signal over the cable. Make a
call to tech support first.

2. If your reception is especially strong, just a piece of wire, 14 to
1/2 wavelength at the center of the FM band might suffice. There might
be a connection on the back of the set, and a pigtail to ground the
other side/screw terminal.

3. An inside dipole, fabricated to be 1/2 wavelength at the center of
the FM band, and fed with 300 ohm twinlead at the center. Sometimes,
these come already made up at places like Radio Shack. It takes about
10 minutes to make one. Just make sure the solder connections are
good. Crimp on lugs on the feed line for a neat and good connection.
Put the dipole up as high indoors as you can, and at 90 degrees to the
station(s) you want to receive. If you can, put it in the attic.

Before you tear the old antenna down, try some of the above, and if
they aren't to your satisfaction, the neighbors will have to live with
it.

[Travis Jordan]

"Dwight" wrote...
I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

The size (in your case, length) of the antenna determines the gain. That
antenna might or might not be overkill for your application. It depends on
how far away the stations of interest are, their antenna elevation, your
elevation, and what obstructions might be in the way. You could try
mounting one of these in your attic (or outside if necessary) and see if it
will do the job.

http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Master.../dp/B0009FJEUS

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:26:27 GMT, Dwight
wrote:

I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb

That all depends on how close you are to a major metropolitan area
that may not require a directional and or gain antenna.

Are all the station in one direction?

Does your existing antenna have a rotor?

If you think you can get away without a gain or directional antenna
then you can try this small omni directional antenna. You may even be
able to hide it in the attic.
https://www.tselectronic.com/antenna...697e42c3 6a9f

An antenna selector guide is located at the below link. It is for TV
but it should give you an idea of just how much of an antenna you
need.
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Other FM antenna choices are here.
http://www.starkelectronic.com/fm.htm

[Phisherman]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:26:27 GMT, Dwight
wrote:

I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb

Antennas that work well should not be touched. Getting an antenna
just right can take a lot of trial-and-error effort. Plus, I found
that the shape and price of an antennae is not directly related to the
reception.

[Mark Lloyd]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:25:20 -0700, professorpaul
wrote:

In ham radio, you are into the "stealth" antenna game. Not seen, not
there... This is the standard problem when you are in a development
with deed restrictions and can't have an outside antenna.

Consider one of these:

1. Feed your FM tuner from the cable network. Use a 75 ohm cable to
300 ohm twinlead transformer -- radio shack. You might also need a
line splitter, in the event that you have a TV connected to the outlet
you wish to use. If you have a "Type F" connector on the back of the
FM receiver, then you don't need the balun transformer, and can feed
it directly. This is usually the best bet, but be aware that some
cable providers do not provide an FM signal over the cable. Make a
call to tech support first.


You're likely to get someone who has no idea what you're talking
about (at least the first one or two). If your FM receiver and TV are
near each other, you could find it MUCH easier to try this than to
take the "helpless option".

[snip]
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

[John]

Dwight wrote:
I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb

Your old antenna doesn't sound like it's an FM antenna, unless the "nine
feet wide" is the bar that the elements are connected to.

The FM wavelength is only a few inches wide. I don't have the figures
handy, but I'm thinking less than 25" at the most. The higher the
frequency you are trying to receive, the shorter the wavelength and so
the shorter the antenna you need.

Using an antenna longer than the wavelength doesn't improve reception.
If anything, it would be more likely to bring in interference from
lower-frequency sources (which require longer antenna elements) if your
FM receiver isn't good at rejecting other signals.

Additional (not longer) elements on the antenna, using the right length
for FM, will improve reception; however, more elements will narrow the
inward signal path. This could be useful to bring in a distant station
and to eliminate signals coming in from other directions.

On the other hand, use less elements (like one or two) if you want to
receive stations from a wide (not narrow) area. This will result in
less reception from the direction the antenna is pointing towards but
more reception from other directions.

There is no need to keep the antenna horizontal. The stations now
transmit both horizontal and vertical polarity because they are allowed
to transmit full power in both orientations at the same time, which is
thought to increase their overall power to each orientation. So, you
can mount your antenna vertically, if that would help in your choice.
To get the most out of it, though, you wouldn't want to mount it any way
other than horizontally or vertically.

John

[M Q]

John wrote:

....
The FM wavelength is only a few inches wide. I don't have the figures
handy, but I'm thinking less than 25" at the most.
....
Uhh... Try about 3 meters. That's about 10 feet.

[Mark Lloyd]

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:54:08 GMT, M Q
wrote:

John wrote:

...
The FM wavelength is only a few inches wide. I don't have the figures
handy, but I'm thinking less than 25" at the most.
...
Uhh... Try about 3 meters. That's about 10 feet.

Right. A dipole antenna is 1/2 wavelength long.

Also, the frequencies used by the FM broadcast band are just a little
higher than TV channel 6 (that is, wavelength slightly lower). An
antenna that works for TV-VHF (which I suppose the poster has) will
work for FM too.

BTW, this closeness also explains what people often did in Rusk (where
there is a TV station on channel 6). People could get the audio on
their (not digitally tuned) FM radios.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

[Dwight]

John wrote:
Dwight wrote:

I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb


Your old antenna doesn't sound like it's an FM antenna, unless the "nine
feet wide" is the bar that the elements are connected to.

The FM wavelength is only a few inches wide. I don't have the figures
handy, but I'm thinking less than 25" at the most. The higher the
frequency you are trying to receive, the shorter the wavelength and so
the shorter the antenna you need.

Using an antenna longer than the wavelength doesn't improve reception.
If anything, it would be more likely to bring in interference from
lower-frequency sources (which require longer antenna elements) if your
FM receiver isn't good at rejecting other signals.

Additional (not longer) elements on the antenna, using the right length
for FM, will improve reception; however, more elements will narrow the
inward signal path. This could be useful to bring in a distant station
and to eliminate signals coming in from other directions.

On the other hand, use less elements (like one or two) if you want to
receive stations from a wide (not narrow) area. This will result in
less reception from the direction the antenna is pointing towards but
more reception from other directions.

There is no need to keep the antenna horizontal. The stations now
transmit both horizontal and vertical polarity because they are allowed
to transmit full power in both orientations at the same time, which is
thought to increase their overall power to each orientation. So, you
can mount your antenna vertically, if that would help in your choice. To
get the most out of it, though, you wouldn't want to mount it any way
other than horizontally or vertically.

John
Thanks, John.

This is very helpful - it also explains why I am receiving pretty well
after my antenna has blown off the chimney and lies on its side on the roof!

Best

[Dwight]

wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:26:27 GMT, Dwight
wrote:


I have an old antenna about nine feet wide at the longest section.

It works well, and I dont need especially refined reception.

But it is ugly for my uphill neighbors to look at.

Can I install something smaller?

If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks very much in advance for your ideas.

Dwight Gibb


That all depends on how close you are to a major metropolitan area
that may not require a directional and or gain antenna.

Are all the station in one direction?

Does your existing antenna have a rotor?

If you think you can get away without a gain or directional antenna
then you can try this small omni directional antenna. You may even be
able to hide it in the attic.
https://www.tselectronic.com/antenna...697e42c3 6a9f

An antenna selector guide is located at the below link. It is for TV
but it should give you an idea of just how much of an antenna you
need.
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

Other FM antenna choices are here.
http://www.starkelectronic.com/fm.htm

Looks good. Thanks.

[clifto]

John wrote:
There is no need to keep the antenna horizontal. The stations now
transmit both horizontal and vertical polarity because they are allowed
to transmit full power in both orientations at the same time, which is
thought to increase their overall power to each orientation. So, you
can mount your antenna vertically, if that would help in your choice.
To get the most out of it, though, you wouldn't want to mount it any way
other than horizontally or vertically.

Seems to me that if the phasing is right, a 45 degree angle would get you
41.4% more signal.

--
"Liberals used to be the ones who argued that sending U.S. troops abroad
was a small price to pay to stop genocide; now they argue that genocide
is a small price to pay to bring U.S. troops home."
-- Jonah Goldberg