[CraigT]

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

"CraigT" wrote in message
news
Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?


Hard to tell from the picture, is the OSB discolored?

[CraigT]

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

[[email protected]]

seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

[Dan Espen]

"CraigT" writes:

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

[CraigT]

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"CraigT" wrote in message
news
Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?


Hard to tell from the picture, is the OSB discolored?


None at all.

[CraigT]

wrote in message
...
seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've lived in the house
2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older children hang around on the
deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from where the damage is.

[CraigT]

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:50:36 -0400, CraigT wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source
from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above.
This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that
outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was
the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of
'06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

The plastic cover on the sheeting underneath the siding is melted and the
wrinkles around it indicate a source of heat. You can come to any
conclusion you desire but the sensible and logical answer is a source of
heat caused that melting.

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it touched the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
...
seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've lived in the
house
2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older children hang around on
the
deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from where the damage is.


Then cut that bitch open and see what's behind the OSB.

If it wasn't there and it just suddenly appeared... I would sure as hell be
finding out what's in that wall!!!!!!

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:50:36 -0400, CraigT wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven
that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source
from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above.
This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that
outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted
by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable
substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was
the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of
'06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

The plastic cover on the sheeting underneath the siding is melted and
the
wrinkles around it indicate a source of heat. You can come to any
conclusion you desire but the sensible and logical answer is a source of
heat caused that melting.

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it touched
the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.


What says it wasn't from inside the wall and where the siding was touching
the Tyvek, it was acting as insulation/heat sink and absorbing the heat?

In the other areas, the heat was able to be absorbed by the air and be
carried off with little damage.

[Smitty Two]

In article ,
"CraigT" wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

WAG here, but a friend once came close to setting his house on fire with
a decorative glass object that focused the sunlight in one spot...

[Dan Espen]

"CraigT" writes:

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it touched the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.

No way.

Lightning would make a hole. Not heat the siding to melting point.

[CraigT]

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:50:36 -0400, CraigT wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven
that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source
from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above.
This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and
unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that
outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted
by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable
substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source
was
the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring
of
'06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

The plastic cover on the sheeting underneath the siding is melted and
the
wrinkles around it indicate a source of heat. You can come to any
conclusion you desire but the sensible and logical answer is a source
of
heat caused that melting.

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it touched
the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.


What says it wasn't from inside the wall and where the siding was touching
the Tyvek, it was acting as insulation/heat sink and absorbing the heat?

In the other areas, the heat was able to be absorbed by the air and be
carried off with little damage.

But if the source of the heat was from the inside wouldn't we see MORE
damage to the Tyvek than the siding? And, the pressboard seems to have no
damage at all.

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:50:36 -0400, CraigT wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven
that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat
source
from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly
above.
This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and
unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that
outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been
melted
by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck
that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable
substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source
was
the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring
of
'06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

The plastic cover on the sheeting underneath the siding is melted and
the
wrinkles around it indicate a source of heat. You can come to any
conclusion you desire but the sensible and logical answer is a source
of
heat caused that melting.

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the
siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it
touched
the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.


What says it wasn't from inside the wall and where the siding was
touching
the Tyvek, it was acting as insulation/heat sink and absorbing the heat?

In the other areas, the heat was able to be absorbed by the air and be
carried off with little damage.

But if the source of the heat was from the inside wouldn't we see MORE
damage to the Tyvek than the siding? And, the pressboard seems to have no
damage at all.


The siding could have acted as insulation and therefore the areas it touched
were hotter, causing the damage.

[dicko]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:22:01 -0500, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:


"CraigT" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've lived in the
house
2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older children hang around on
the
deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from where the damage is.


Then cut that bitch open and see what's behind the OSB.

If it wasn't there and it just suddenly appeared... I would sure as hell be
finding out what's in that wall!!!!!!

I'll weigh in with my 2 cents. The pattern of melted tyvek seems to
indicate an outside source of heat, a fairly diffuse source at that.
The melted tyvek appears to be evenly spaced at the same spacing as
the siding overlap as evidenced by some dirt streaks on the un melted
tyvek. So wherever the siding came into contact with the tyvek, it
melted. Where the siding was spaced away, it didnt melt.

This indicates an outside source to me. I doubt it was lightning. As
some one else said, that would punch a hole. But it wouldnt just
punch a hole, it'd blast a hole.

I know someone who ruined an expensive swimming pool liner by using
some plastic milk jugs as weights to hold the pool cover down. They
focused the sun and melted right through the liner. This however
seems to large for that. The heat was applied over a substantial area
but focused over the largest tyvek hole.

-dickm

[dpb]

CraigT wrote:
Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

The first shows definitely the heating shrunk the Tyvek and melted some
of it at the hottest point (which is where I thought it looked like the
center was previously). Can't tell through that tiny little spot what
the actual sheathing looks like.

Definitely need to cut the Tyvek and look under it to tell for sure what
it actually looks like.

Not at all surprising the wiring at the outlets looks ok, they're
removed from where the problem is visible altho certainly if they had
shown something that would have been indicative.

I don't think this has any chance of being lightning, it's more
indicative of a radiant heat source imo and lightning would have really
charred something in all likelihood.

I kinda' like Smitty's WAG -- didn't have a hanging mobile or something
at some point by any chance? Don't know orientation wrt sun, but one
thing the wife does that could be a problem if set in the wrong spot is
brewing "sun tea" in the big gallon glass jar -- put that thing on a
table outside the patio door and it would work really nice as he suggests...

I'd still explore more around that area under the Tyvek and if that
didn't satisfy me, it can't hurt to make the entry hole...

It should be possible to see if the charring (if any) is surface and
improves from the outside in or intensifies once there's an area to look
at in comparison to the surrounding area under the Tyvek, though.

--

[dpb]

dpb wrote:
....
I kinda' like Smitty's WAG -- ...

Another WAG -- didn't have a service tech or somebody doing some
exterior plumbing or HVAC or other work that would have had a torch,
perchance? Looks a lot like a torch laid down on a temporary bench or
table pointing that way from a few feet away could have done...

--

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"CraigT" wrote in message

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was
the cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of
'06 redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

What does the back of the siding look like? Discolored on the surface or
through out the pieces?

[betsyb]

Our new siding was finished for all of a week when I cooked steaks on the
grill outside. Apparently the grill was too close and mine looks just like
your's. DH was not the least bit impressed.

--
BetsyB
"CraigT" wrote in message
news
Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"Dan Espen" wrote in message

If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

Some plastics absorb chemicals, especially colorants *, and never get soft
at all. If it was softened by a solvent, once the aromatics dried, it would
become hard again.

*Rit dye works especially well with nylon.

[CraigT]

"dpb" wrote in message ...
dpb wrote:
...
I kinda' like Smitty's WAG -- ...

Another WAG -- didn't have a service tech or somebody doing some exterior
plumbing or HVAC or other work that would have had a torch, perchance?
Looks a lot like a torch laid down on a temporary bench or table pointing
that way from a few feet away could have done...

-
Nobody has done any work outside of me staining the deck.

And, the grill is never moved near the house.

You know, when I say lightning, I don't mean a direct hit, but if the gutter
took a hit then it traveled down the house to ground and in the process
jumped from the siding to that deck railing or if hit the railing and tried
to seek out the wiring behind that wall to get to ground it might have been
diffused enough to do this.

Hey, I know I'm reaching here.

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:08:41 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Dan Espen" wrote in message

If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

Some plastics absorb chemicals, especially colorants *, and never get soft
at all. If it was softened by a solvent, once the aromatics dried, it would
become hard again.

*Rit dye works especially well with nylon.


The OP did state (first thread) before, that he used a chemical in
'06. The product he used did have Acetone (and trade secrets). He
cleaned over spray of stain off the siding.

I'm not certain the OP cleaned off the product he used, but let it set
and dry. It is clear, so and over sight?



--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

[Nick Hull]

In article ,
"CraigT" wrote:

wrote in message
...
seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've lived in the house
2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older children hang around on the
deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from where the damage is.




Could the grill have been used 18' away and rolled close to the
siding before it was cold?

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 17:06:41 -0400, "betsyb"
wrote:

Our new siding was finished for all of a week when I cooked steaks on the
grill outside. Apparently the grill was too close and mine looks just like
your's. DH was not the least bit impressed.

It has taken my bride nearly 22 years to step up and grill outside. It
is a "man world" :-))

--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:18:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:

Could the grill have been used 18' away and rolled close to the
siding before it was cold?

Why would he sit a cooling gill in front of the deck entry door;
especially at meal time?
--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

[dpb]

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:08:41 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.
Some plastics absorb chemicals, especially colorants *, and never get soft
at all. If it was softened by a solvent, once the aromatics dried, it would
become hard again.

*Rit dye works especially well with nylon.


The OP did state (first thread) before, that he used a chemical in
'06. The product he used did have Acetone (and trade secrets). He
cleaned over spray of stain off the siding.


But he also claims this wasn't this way two weeks ago so if that is
indeed true, pretty much rules out the '06 application...

And, it just doesn't look look chemical damage to me from the pictures,
but heat...

--

[dpb]

CraigT wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
dpb wrote:
...
I kinda' like Smitty's WAG -- ...
Another WAG -- didn't have a service tech or somebody doing some exterior
plumbing or HVAC or other work that would have had a torch, perchance?
Looks a lot like a torch laid down on a temporary bench or table pointing
that way from a few feet away could have done...

-
Nobody has done any work outside of me staining the deck.

And, the grill is never moved near the house.

You know, when I say lightning, I don't mean a direct hit, but if the gutter
took a hit then it traveled down the house to ground and in the process
jumped from the siding to that deck railing or if hit the railing and tried
to seek out the wiring behind that wall to get to ground it might have been
diffused enough to do this.

Hey, I know I'm reaching here.

What does the sheathing underneath the Tyvek show?

I'm still convinced it was a heat source and strongly doubt even
indirect lightning.

I forget -- you got kids? Sure SO didn't do something while you were
out of town on that last business trip or something else you don't know
about occurred out there?

--

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:26:10 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:08:41 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.
Some plastics absorb chemicals, especially colorants *, and never get soft
at all. If it was softened by a solvent, once the aromatics dried, it would
become hard again.

*Rit dye works especially well with nylon.


The OP did state (first thread) before, that he used a chemical in
'06. The product he used did have Acetone (and trade secrets). He
cleaned over spray of stain off the siding.


But he also claims this wasn't this way two weeks ago so if that is
indeed true, pretty much rules out the '06 application...

And, it just doesn't look look chemical damage to me from the pictures,
but heat...

I have asked myself; if there might be and "illegal" electrical box
inside the wall that burnt, but it seems the OP has no
breaker/electrical problems (unless I missed it)

I will really enjoy what the true cause is; given all the replies!








--
Oren

"If things get any worse, I'll have to ask you to stop helping me."

[dpb]

Oren wrote:
....
I have asked myself; if there might be and "illegal" electrical box
inside the wall that burnt, but it seems the OP has no
breaker/electrical problems (unless I missed it)

I will really enjoy what the true cause is; given all the replies!
....

Yeah, I wondered similar thoughts but it seems too new for that to be
likely -- of course, nothing can be ruled out of what _might_ have been
done...

That's where I think until he at least cuts the Tyvek to see what the
sheathing looks like in general there's nothing more to be learned.

And, unless the damage is then shown to be other than totally
superficial (and it'll be obvious if it's inside-out instead of
outside-in), I think the obvious has to be something put some heat out
there in that location whether he knows what it was or not...the grill
pushed out of the way after use of something similar is really still the
most likely culprit in my view--

It's possible will never know. But, as you say if there were something
untoward inside, looking at the sheathing will be able to show whether
it came from inside and if so, then opening up the wall would be the answer.

Why he seems so reluctant to go ahead and dig in and uncover the mystery
area directly instead of bandying about here is beyond my ken...the area
needs to be repaired anyway, so it's not like he's doing anything
drastic in cutting out an area of Tyvek...

--

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:53:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
...
I have asked myself; if there might be and "illegal" electrical box
inside the wall that burnt, but it seems the OP has no
breaker/electrical problems (unless I missed it)

I will really enjoy what the true cause is; given all the replies!
...

Yeah, I wondered similar thoughts but it seems too new for that to be
likely -- of course, nothing can be ruled out of what _might_ have been
done...

That's where I think until he at least cuts the Tyvek to see what the
sheathing looks like in general there's nothing more to be learned.

And, unless the damage is then shown to be other than totally
superficial (and it'll be obvious if it's inside-out instead of
outside-in), I think the obvious has to be something put some heat out
there in that location whether he knows what it was or not...the grill
pushed out of the way after use of something similar is really still the
most likely culprit in my view--

It's possible will never know. But, as you say if there were something
untoward inside, looking at the sheathing will be able to show whether
it came from inside and if so, then opening up the wall would be the answer.

Why he seems so reluctant to go ahead and dig in and uncover the mystery
area directly instead of bandying about here is beyond my ken...the area
needs to be repaired anyway, so it's not like he's doing anything
drastic in cutting out an area of Tyvek...

Yup... before other unknowns happen.
--
Oren

Hofstadter's Law - It [a task] always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

[Dan Espen]

Oren writes:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:18:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:

Could the grill have been used 18' away and rolled close to the
siding before it was cold?

Why would he sit a cooling gill in front of the deck entry door;
especially at meal time?

Raining.

[Oren]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:09:07 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

Oren writes:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:18:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote:

Could the grill have been used 18' away and rolled close to the
siding before it was cold?

Why would he sit a cooling gill in front of the deck entry door;
especially at meal time?

Raining.

Right:-\ Would you? I think the OP is brighter than that.

--
Oren

Hofstadter's Law - It [a task] always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

[Gini]

"CraigT" wrote
..........

-
Nobody has done any work outside of me staining the deck.

And, the grill is never moved near the house.
==
You are aware that older kids do all kinds of stupid stuff when their
parents aren't home, right?
Oh yeah, and they never ever admit it.

[Pete C.]

Dan Espen wrote:

"CraigT" writes:

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

I think the chance of it being chemical related are close to zero. If it
was a chemical that got on the surface of the siding there is virtually
no chance that it would have any effect on the tyvek underneath.

Unlike what someone else said about the melt pattern in the tyvek
doesn't appear to align with the siding pattern, even if it did, if
where the siding was pressing the tyvek against the sheathing the tyvek
melted that would indicate heat from inside to me since the joint
section of the siding would be dripping goo before it transferred enough
heat to melt the tyvek.

If it were me, I'd have that wall open in about thirty seconds to see
what the hell is going on inside it, first since patching some sheathing
is no big deal, and second since the melt pattern does seem to align
with one of those electrical boxes. The back of the apparent melt area
is mostly behind the counter so you may not be able to see if there is
evidence of heating on that side.

I also note the double green washered nail in close proximity to the
electrical box. It seems quite possible that one of those two nails is
in a stud and the other hit a wire going to that box and has caused an
intermittent short. With the counter on the inside of that area it's
also possible someone used excessively long screws fastening the base
cabinets and hit a wire from that side.

I'd consider it serious enough to warrant immediate opening of the wall
cavity. It may be evidence of an actual fire in the wall that may have
self extinguished.

Pete C.

[Pete C.]

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:47:35 -0400, CraigT wrote:


kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:50:36 -0400, CraigT wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:29:46 -0400, CraigT wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven
that
sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source
from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above.
This
is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and
unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that
outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

Looks like the plastic over the the outside sheeting has been melted
by
heat. You've got to remember what you might have had on the deck that
heated up that area. Either that or someone poured a flammable
substance
on it and tried to set your house on fire or vandalize it.

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source
was
the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring
of
'06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

The plastic cover on the sheeting underneath the siding is melted and
the
wrinkles around it indicate a source of heat. You can come to any
conclusion you desire but the sensible and logical answer is a source
of
heat caused that melting.

The more I stare at this the more I think it was a lightning strike.

Notice the wrinkles in the Tyvek correspond to the indents of the siding.
Yes the heat source was outside, melted the siding, and where it touched
the
Tyvek it distorted/melted it too.


What says it wasn't from inside the wall and where the siding was touching
the Tyvek, it was acting as insulation/heat sink and absorbing the heat?

In the other areas, the heat was able to be absorbed by the air and be
carried off with little damage.

But if the source of the heat was from the inside wouldn't we see MORE
damage to the Tyvek than the siding? And, the pressboard seems to have no
damage at all.

The plastic under the siding would have been exponentially more melted had
the heat source been underneath it. I doubt that lightning was the
culprit, there would have been much more damage. Got any kids around who
like to play with fire?

Have you checked the melting point of Tyvek (polyolefin) vs. the siding
(polyvinyl) vs. the temp required to discolor the OSB siding?

My take on it based on what I've seen is that either one of those green
washered nails, or a screw from securing the inside counter has clipped
a wire and at some point arced and caused a fire inside the wall that
thankfully self extinguished.

I would immediately open up that wall cavity to investigate before it
happens again and the whole house potentially goes up.

Pete C.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:15:55 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Dan Espen wrote:

"CraigT" writes:

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.

If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

I think the chance of it being chemical related are close to zero. If it
was a chemical that got on the surface of the siding there is virtually
no chance that it would have any effect on the tyvek underneath.

Unlike what someone else said about the melt pattern in the tyvek
doesn't appear to align with the siding pattern, even if it did, if
where the siding was pressing the tyvek against the sheathing the tyvek
melted that would indicate heat from inside to me since the joint
section of the siding would be dripping goo before it transferred enough
heat to melt the tyvek.

If it were me, I'd have that wall open in about thirty seconds to see
what the hell is going on inside it, first since patching some sheathing
is no big deal, and second since the melt pattern does seem to align
with one of those electrical boxes. The back of the apparent melt area
is mostly behind the counter so you may not be able to see if there is
evidence of heating on that side.

I also note the double green washered nail in close proximity to the
electrical box. It seems quite possible that one of those two nails is
in a stud and the other hit a wire going to that box and has caused an
intermittent short. With the counter on the inside of that area it's
also possible someone used excessively long screws fastening the base
cabinets and hit a wire from that side.

I'd consider it serious enough to warrant immediate opening of the wall
cavity. It may be evidence of an actual fire in the wall that may have
self extinguished.

I agree with Pete. I would cut power to all countertop, lights with
switches in area, and outside receptacle prior to ANY work on wall.
Horizontal burn patterns similar to what is seen are common in
nails/screws thru wiring fire incidents. Sheathing may be deeply
charred on the inner surface without burn through.
--
Mr.E

[dpb]

Pete C. wrote:
Dan Espen wrote:
"CraigT" writes:

Sorry, we kind of went over this in the last thread. No heat source was the
cause unless I had a lightning strike.
Some felt it was my use of chemicals during restaining in the spring of '06
redused the siding's sensitivity to sunlight.
If it was chemicals, I think it would still be soft.

I think the chance of it being chemical related are close to zero. If it
was a chemical that got on the surface of the siding there is virtually
no chance that it would have any effect on the tyvek underneath.

Me too...

....

If it were me, I'd have that wall open in about thirty seconds to see
what the hell is going on inside it, first since patching some sheathing
is no big deal, and second since the melt pattern does seem to align
with one of those electrical boxes. The back of the apparent melt area
is mostly behind the counter so you may not be able to see if there is
evidence of heating on that side.

....

I started recommending that from the first time he posted, too...

--

[Art]

You could neatly cut the tyvek and then reattach it with Pella tape sold
Lowes or Home Depot in their Pella window/ door department. I'm not sure
which one carries Pella but the one that does should stock the tape and it
will last as long as the tyvek.


"CraigT" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
...
seen siding just like that.guy had a gas grill to close to it. HEAT!!!

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've lived in the
house 2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older children hang around
on the deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from where the damage is.

[CraigT]

All right, I've been convinced by you guys to open up the wall.

Like has been said, little effort, great rewards.

Thank you to all of you. You all have been courteous in the face of my
stubbornness and this is why I point people in this direction when they have
a question.

I've been wanting to try out that saw blade I bought for my rotozip.

[Doug Miller]

In article , "Pete C." wrote:
I think the chance of it being chemical related are close to zero. If it
was a chemical that got on the surface of the siding there is virtually
no chance that it would have any effect on the tyvek underneath.

"Virtually no chance" is completely incorrect. Vinyl siding is *not* air-tight
by any means. Solvent wiped or sprayed on the outside would very rapidly lead
to solvent vapors on the inside.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.