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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

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...

Allowed or not, it's NOT safe. Quality tape is fine to cover bare
wires, but it does NOT clamp the ends of twisted connections. Tape is
only intended to cover bare wires, NOT to clamp the wires together.
If any twist is not perfect, it will likely vibrate loose over time
(or immediately), and start arcing. At least, this will cause light
to flicker and electronics to fry. At worst, it could cause a fire.



Sharp wire ends will also puncture tape, no matter how good the tape is.


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).

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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

"billder99" wrote in message
ps.com...
Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).



Don't do it.


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

billder99 wrote:

Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


The NEC does *NOT* permit twisting the wires and then just tapeing. See
gfretwell's post that includes:

"110.14(B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing
devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding, or soldering
with a fusible metal or alloy."

(This is the equivalent in the current code of the quote in your
original post.)

Twisting the wires, with no solder or "splicing device identifified for
the use" [wirenut], is a code violation and is *insane*.

Twisting and soldering then tapeing is permitted.


(Twisting is not required with wirenuts unless the manufacturer requires
twisting.)

--
bud--
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:28:55 -0700, billder99
wrote:

Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


Jesus Christ, how cheap can you be? Go buy a pack of 50 red wirenuts
and 25 yellow ones, shove them in the guys face and tell him to use
them. You spent about $6 and saved your home and/or life. Also, when
it comes to adding an outlet or something later on, it will save the
next electrician 20 minutes of time to scrape the tape off.


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

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...
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:28:55 -0700, billder99
wrote:

Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


Jesus Christ, how cheap can you be? Go buy a pack of 50 red wirenuts
and 25 yellow ones, shove them in the guys face and tell him to use
them. You spent about $6 and saved your home and/or life. Also, when
it comes to adding an outlet or something later on, it will save the
next electrician 20 minutes of time to scrape the tape off.



Not only that, but is this the last electrician in town or something?
Cripes...hire someone with a brain.


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

billder99 wrote:
Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


It does, however, forbid splices that do not have an additional
mechanical fastening other than the twisting of the wires. At least,
that's my reading of it...

--


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

According to bud-- :

Twisting the wires, with no solder or "splicing device identifified for
the use" [wirenut], is a code violation and is *insane*.


No kidding. Sheesh!

A couple of thermal cycles later, you will almost certainly
have an intermittent, arcs, and possibly a fire.

The wire _must_ be positively connected, whether by wirenut,
solder or proper crimp device. Electrician's tape is an insulator,
not a crimp device.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

In article , dpb wrote:
billder99 wrote:
Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


It does, however, forbid splices that do not have an additional
mechanical fastening other than the twisting of the wires. At least,
that's my reading of it...

Quite true, it does. But also, per Code, the local inspection authority has
the final say. In this case, it appears that local inspection authority said
OK. Probably shouldn't have...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , dpb wrote:
billder99 wrote:
Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).


It does, however, forbid splices that do not have an additional
mechanical fastening other than the twisting of the wires. At least,
that's my reading of it...

Quite true, it does. But also, per Code, the local inspection authority
has
the final say. In this case, it appears that local inspection authority
said
OK. Probably shouldn't have...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)



I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already
happened, like there was no turning back.




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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

In article , "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , dpb wrote:
billder99 wrote:
Thanks very much for your responses Guys, and especially to Doug for
the link to the NEC Online. In summary, the code does not forbid the
use of electrical tape as insulation on spliced wires (yes, insulation
removed, ends twisted).

It does, however, forbid splices that do not have an additional
mechanical fastening other than the twisting of the wires. At least,
that's my reading of it...

Quite true, it does. But also, per Code, the local inspection authority has
the final say. In this case, it appears that local inspection authority said
OK. Probably shouldn't have...


I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already
happened, like there was no turning back.


A lot of people do that. They usually leave disappointed. :-)

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

On Jul 30, 3:11 pm, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
.... The wire _must_ be positively connected, whether by wirenut,
solder or proper crimp device. Electrician's tape is an insulator,
not a crimp device.


I use tape as insurance. Use a wire nut, then wrap tape over that. I
suppose if the wire nut is on correctly it's not necessary, but it
makes me feel better.



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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

On 07/30/07 04:29 pm Doug Miller wrote:

I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already
happened, like there was no turning back.


A lot of people do that. They usually leave disappointed. :-)



I am the OP. I came, not looking for approval of/for something that had
already happened but expressing amazement that what I found -- black
hots and red hots (thus with 220/240 volts between them), with crimped
connections and a few layers of insulation tape -- could ever have been
kosher.

I have remade the connections using wirenuts -- as I intended to do all
along.

Perce


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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:13:53 GMT, CJT wrote:

wrote:
snip
By the way, I often see electricians wirenutting wires without
twisting them. This too is dangerous. Yes, I have done it for a
temporary connection, but not permanent.


Some wire nuts are designed specifically for _untwisted_ wires, and if
you twist them first you may be _weakening_ the connection.


Just curious. How do you which are which? I have never seen anything
printed on the packages. I have always twisted wires. That's how I
was taught many years ago. It's easier not to twist, but twisting
seems to make the best connection. As for wirenuts, I dont see how
twisting could weaken the connection.... (unless twisted so much a
wire breaks).

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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

In article , "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/30/07 04:29 pm Doug Miller wrote:

I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already
happened, like there was no turning back.


A lot of people do that. They usually leave disappointed. :-)



I am the OP. I came, not looking for approval of/for something that had
already happened but expressing amazement that what I found -- black
hots and red hots (thus with 220/240 volts between them), with crimped
connections and a few layers of insulation tape -- could ever have been
kosher.


Just for the record -- if they've been properly crimped and taped, that *does*
meet Code.

I have remade the connections using wirenuts -- as I intended to do all
along.

Perce


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

According to :

Just curious. How do you which are which? I have never seen anything
printed on the packages. I have always twisted wires. That's how I
was taught many years ago. It's easier not to twist, but twisting
seems to make the best connection. As for wirenuts, I dont see how
twisting could weaken the connection.... (unless twisted so much a
wire breaks).


It supposedly says on the package. I've never seen it.

Some wirenuts are apparently designed to do the twist while
you turn them on. Saves a little time/fuss for the electrician,
which is why they design them that way. It's remotely possible
that some wirenuts designed for "no pretwist" may (meaning
"probably only rarely") overtwist the wire if you pre-twist it
anyway.

It's best to do what the package says, and err on the side
of pre-twist if it doesn't say.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Crimp-and-tape vs. wirenuts -- for hots?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 07/30/07 04:29 pm Doug Miller wrote:

I think the OP came here looking for approval for something that already
happened, like there was no turning back.


A lot of people do that. They usually leave disappointed. :-)



I am the OP. I came, not looking for approval of/for something that had
already happened but expressing amazement that what I found -- black
hots and red hots (thus with 220/240 volts between them), with crimped
connections and a few layers of insulation tape -- could ever have been
kosher.


Just for the record -- if they've been properly crimped and taped, that *does*
meet Code.


I agree.




The thread took a different turn with a related question from bilder99.
There is no indication in his posts that mechanical device or solder was
used.

bilder99 was not looking for approval of what was happening. He thought
what was happening wrong and wanted a 'second opinion'.

--
bud--
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