I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________

Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

How could/did you know the hose didn't just go into a tank rather than
continuing down a line? (Not saying it didn't, mind you, but don't know
from what you've said how you could tell where the end really was, only
how much had been played out...)

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

Pretty reasonable "surmisation" I think given the data (assuming
there is a way to resolve the possible discrepancy raised above).
....

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

Sure, lots of folks get by "on the cheap" if they can sneak it by the
inspectors or don't bother to get inspected or aren't subject to it.

What to do--how long has it been this way and are there problems at
present? If quite a while and no problems (so far), how is the usage
you foresee in comparison to previous? If continue light use
seasonally, it might just continue to function adequately for quite some
time. OTOH, if you become permanent residents, bring in a bunch of kids
and/or visitors, it could well fail in a month or two. Do you have to
meet a current code for some reason now that wasn't before?

What _ought_ to be done almost certainly of course, is to add a septic
tank if it doesn't have one...what you can get away with and for how
long is an unanswerable question. Of course, if the laterals are still
functioning now and you add the tank, you can probably keep them from
clogging w/ solids and not have to replace the drainfield. If you risk
over-use and _do_ clog the laterals, then it's the whole system
replacement instead of just a tank.

Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional
building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and
only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where
finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a
major problem...

HTH at least some...

--

dpb wrote:

Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional
building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and
only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where
finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a
major problem...


I've seen where the "tank" was a couple of 55gal drums in series
before going to the laterals. Worked fine for a 1 person system for a
whole lot of years.

KC

KC wrote:
dpb wrote:
Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional
building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and
only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where
finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a
major problem...


I've seen where the "tank" was a couple of 55gal drums in series
before going to the laterals. Worked fine for a 1 person system for a
whole lot of years.

Unless they were plastic drums, wouldn't expect that "whole lot" to be
more than 20, maybe, before the drums were long gone. Guess if it was
rocky soil it could be possible the hole wouldn't collapse in, though...

One can see lots of things if one gets around...

--

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.




On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:48:53 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________

Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________


Septic field

Steve B wrote:

I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________


Septic field?

Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________


maybe its a mound system?

I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

On Jun 15, 4:48 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from
the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off
that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a
septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty
feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a
tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank
might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like.

A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole
thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only
gets light use.

The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to
the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the
surface located lines, there is no septic tank.

Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do?

_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
l_________________________
l
__ l_________________________

There must be a tank somewhere. Running laterals like that and no
tank, it would clog the laterals in short order.

I had to dig mine out last year. Used dowsing rods and something
strange happened. I could trace the line right up to the tank and
then nothing and then pick up the line again where it exited the
tank. The rods would not show the tank itself.

I wonder about the number of laterals also. My rods work like this:

Walking slowly at right angles: Get indicator (pipe). On the other
side get another indicator. That second one is a depth indicator, not
a pipe. If I was getting what you show, I would have found 3
laterals, not 6.

Harry K

try running a snake down the line, listen at ground to find where it
goes

Steve,

Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw
sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field but
a leach field must have a tank.
I'm afraid that you have a weekend's worth of digging. Start at the
house and dig from there along the sewage pipe until you locate other
structures.

Dave M.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Steve

"David Martel" wrote in message
nk.net...
Steve,

Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw
sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field
but a leach field must have a tank.
I'm afraid that you have a weekend's worth of digging. Start at the
house and dig from there along the sewage pipe until you locate other
structures.

Dave M.

Nah, Dave. I'm pretty sure. The cabin is on a mountain side, and the only
flat area is where the leach field is. The nearest "river" is miles and
miles and miles away, probably forty. There is a creek about two miles
downhill from the end of my leach field, and at least 750' vertical. Would
that count?

I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have
him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube.

The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape
before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and
parking areas.

Steve

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:30:39 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Toller" wrote in message
...
I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Steve


And not a septic?

I almost took you up on the offer to demonstrate within 25 miles

BTW, it may not apply in your locatioin, but looking for a septic tank
might be as easy as looking for the greenest/better growing lawn
grass...

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:41:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have
him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube.

The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape
before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and
parking areas.

Steve

I did own a home once with a dual septic tank system. I would have
never guessed one was in the front yard...

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

Steve B wrote:
"David Martel" wrote in message
nk.net...
Steve,

Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw
sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field
but a leach field must have a tank.

....a leach field _SHOULD_ have a tank..."

What somebody did to cut corners is anybody's guess, I guess...

....

I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have
him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube.

The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape
before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and
parking areas.

Did you just purchase this property? If so: Wasn't it necessary for
previous owner to disclose the condition prior to purchase? Didn't do
an inspection prior to purchase? Can't ask prior owner what the deal is
now even if others are "no"?

--

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Would they find cement or clay pipe?

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:56:27 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Toller" wrote in message
...
I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Would they find cement or clay pipe?


What about snipping the ends off the tie-wires?

Anything dramatic, let us know!.

It could put _call_before_you_dig_ out of business.


--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

In article ,
Oren wrote:
Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Steve


And not a septic?

If the tank is non-metallic, I think you need a crystal pendulum to find
it. The good news is that this will also tell you if it is a boy tank
or a girl tank.

--
--Tim Smith

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:30:39 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Toller" wrote in message
...
I took two metal dowsing rods

Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal?

They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe.
They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid..

Steve


And not a septic?

I almost took you up on the offer to demonstrate within 25 miles

BTW, it may not apply in your locatioin, but looking for a septic tank
might be as easy as looking for the greenest/better growing lawn
grass...

--
Oren


We are leaving for Utah for two weeks in the morning. Any time after that,
I would be happy to meet you and give you a demonstration. It is a method
that works, and saves a lot of time and money looking for pipes.

Steve

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Steve B wrote:
"David Martel" wrote in message
nk.net...
Steve,

Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping
raw sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach
field but a leach field must have a tank.

...a leach field _SHOULD_ have a tank..."

What somebody did to cut corners is anybody's guess, I guess...

...

I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have
him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube.

The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good
shape before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway
and parking areas.

Did you just purchase this property? If so: Wasn't it necessary for
previous owner to disclose the condition prior to purchase? Didn't do an
inspection prior to purchase? Can't ask prior owner what the deal is now
even if others are "no"?

I am going up to the property tomorrow. In this mountainous area, almost
anything goes. I am going to go to the office where the records SHOULD be,
and say I'm considering putting in a driveway, and want to know if they have
any drawings. We are the third owners of the cabin, and original drawings,
plans, and notes are unavailable.

We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray
areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point
50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of
infiltration from the septic systems. The system was designed and put in by
a team of doctors, the original owners of the properties. It is currently
maintained and monitored by a doctor. But, still, it's not 100% legal, so
we try to attract as little bureaucracy as possible to our little corner of
Paradise.

I'm going to do some more digging to see if I can get more clues. Being
post 5 way bypass surgery with an artificial aortic valve, digging in hard
soil is not one of my most favorite activities any more.

Steve

On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote:

Would they find cement or clay pipe?

The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water
dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead
"the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for
groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily
recognizable by drilling contractors"

http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm

In article ,
says...
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was
angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank.

I took two metal dowsing rods

ROTFLMAO!

Dowsing doesn't work.

Steve B wrote:
....

We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray
areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point
50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of
infiltration from the septic systems. ...

That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous
territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than
local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea
just to ensure conditions...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Steve B wrote:
...

We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray
areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point
50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of
infiltration from the septic systems. ...

That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous
territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than
local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea
just to ensure conditions...

--

How does that work when all of the houses are lower than the spring?

Steve

"mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote:

Would they find cement or clay pipe?

The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water
dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead
"the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for
groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily
recognizable by drilling contractors"

http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm


Ah, yes. Scientific facts that contradict reality. Some people have made
careers out of it, like AlGore. It is not difficult to understand how
people who are educated beyond their capacity can sit around and write
papers on things they don't have a clue about. They're trained to do just
that. Or paid for it. Bring me any premise, and I can provide an expert
witness to refute it. It happens hundreds of times a day in our legal
system. (Remember the "Dream Team"?)

There are MILLIONS of examples of the scientific community taking a stand on
something, only to find out they were full of hooey. Or their grants were
taken away, then the next year, they came out with a totally different
"finding".

Coffee is good for you. Coffee is bad for you. Coffee is good and bad for
you. Coffee doesn't make any difference. Which one is it? It depends on
the day of the week, and which opinion is popular, and who you pay for the
report.

As I said, I offered Oren a free demonstration when I get back in town.

It's kind of like God. You believe in it or you don't.

Who's right?

Everyone.

Steve

In article , "Steve B" wrote:

"mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote:

Would they find cement or clay pipe?

The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water
dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead
"the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for
groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily
recognizable by drilling contractors"

http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm


Ah, yes. Scientific facts that contradict reality.
[snip]
As I said, I offered Oren a free demonstration when I get back in town.

Never mind Oren -- demonstrate it to James Randi, and win a million dollars.
http://randi.org/research/index.html

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Steve B wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
Steve B wrote:
...

We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray
areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point
50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of
infiltration from the septic systems. ...
That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous
territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than
local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea
just to ensure conditions...

--

How does that work when all of the houses are lower than the spring?

Simplest is the case of the crest you're on being an intermediate and
there's a hydrologic underground connection from the higher peak...

Ever wonder how the spring is fed if it's the highest point around?

--

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:32:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

Never mind Oren

I would rather sell turnip greens on the side of the road, than fall
off the turnip truck G

Steve will be at the cabin digging for the septic with a shovel, but
the dowsing rods only found the leech sp field. Imagine that!!
--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..