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#1
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No Septic Tank?
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where
the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ |
#2
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. How could/did you know the hose didn't just go into a tank rather than continuing down a line? (Not saying it didn't, mind you, but don't know from what you've said how you could tell where the end really was, only how much had been played out...) A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. Pretty reasonable "surmisation" I think given the data (assuming there is a way to resolve the possible discrepancy raised above). .... Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? Sure, lots of folks get by "on the cheap" if they can sneak it by the inspectors or don't bother to get inspected or aren't subject to it. What to do--how long has it been this way and are there problems at present? If quite a while and no problems (so far), how is the usage you foresee in comparison to previous? If continue light use seasonally, it might just continue to function adequately for quite some time. OTOH, if you become permanent residents, bring in a bunch of kids and/or visitors, it could well fail in a month or two. Do you have to meet a current code for some reason now that wasn't before? What _ought_ to be done almost certainly of course, is to add a septic tank if it doesn't have one...what you can get away with and for how long is an unanswerable question. Of course, if the laterals are still functioning now and you add the tank, you can probably keep them from clogging w/ solids and not have to replace the drainfield. If you risk over-use and _do_ clog the laterals, then it's the whole system replacement instead of just a tank. Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a major problem... HTH at least some... -- |
#3
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No Septic Tank?
dpb wrote: Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a major problem... I've seen where the "tank" was a couple of 55gal drums in series before going to the laterals. Worked fine for a 1 person system for a whole lot of years. KC |
#4
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No Septic Tank?
KC wrote:
dpb wrote: Of course, I've seen some cabins where there was the traditional building w/ a half-moon in the door for that portion of the waste and only "gray water" went down the drains. Mostly in mountains where finding enough soil to make even a minimal rudimentary drainfield was a major problem... I've seen where the "tank" was a couple of 55gal drums in series before going to the laterals. Worked fine for a 1 person system for a whole lot of years. Unless they were plastic drums, wouldn't expect that "whole lot" to be more than 20, maybe, before the drums were long gone. Guess if it was rocky soil it could be possible the hole wouldn't collapse in, though... One can see lots of things if one gets around... -- |
#5
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No Septic Tank?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:48:53 -0700, "Steve B" wrote: I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ |
#6
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ Septic field |
#7
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ Septic field? |
#8
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ maybe its a mound system? |
#9
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No Septic Tank?
I took two metal dowsing rods
Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? |
#10
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No Septic Tank?
On Jun 15, 4:48 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
I went to my cabin this week to dig up the septic tank cap. I found where the line came out of the house, and followed it for a few feet. It was angled down into the ground at a steep angle, and I did not reach the tank. I took two metal dowsing rods and located all the branches off the line from the house. It looks like there is a main line from the cabin, a branch off that, and then five lateral lines off that branch. I could not locate a septic tank. We ran a hose down the line from the house, and it went twenty feet straight to a point on the hill where past that, there could not be a tank. And none of the lines hooked into a line coming out of where a tank might be. At bottom is an attempt of what the lines look like. A friend of mine who is in construction big time suggested that the whole thing was made without a septic tank, as it is a seasonal cabin, and only gets light use. The only other thing I can do is dig, dig, dig, to see if I can dig down to the suspected branches, or hit the actual tank. But by the looks of the surface located lines, there is no septic tank. Anyone ever heard of this? What would you do? _________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l l_________________________ l __ l_________________________ There must be a tank somewhere. Running laterals like that and no tank, it would clog the laterals in short order. I had to dig mine out last year. Used dowsing rods and something strange happened. I could trace the line right up to the tank and then nothing and then pick up the line again where it exited the tank. The rods would not show the tank itself. I wonder about the number of laterals also. My rods work like this: Walking slowly at right angles: Get indicator (pipe). On the other side get another indicator. That second one is a depth indicator, not a pipe. If I was getting what you show, I would have found 3 laterals, not 6. Harry K |
#11
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No Septic Tank?
try running a snake down the line, listen at ground to find where it
goes |
#12
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No Septic Tank?
Steve,
Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field but a leach field must have a tank. I'm afraid that you have a weekend's worth of digging. Start at the house and dig from there along the sewage pipe until you locate other structures. Dave M. |
#13
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No Septic Tank?
"Toller" wrote in message ... I took two metal dowsing rods Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Steve |
#14
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No Septic Tank?
"David Martel" wrote in message nk.net... Steve, Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field but a leach field must have a tank. I'm afraid that you have a weekend's worth of digging. Start at the house and dig from there along the sewage pipe until you locate other structures. Dave M. Nah, Dave. I'm pretty sure. The cabin is on a mountain side, and the only flat area is where the leach field is. The nearest "river" is miles and miles and miles away, probably forty. There is a creek about two miles downhill from the end of my leach field, and at least 750' vertical. Would that count? I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube. The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and parking areas. Steve |
#15
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No Septic Tank?
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:30:39 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: "Toller" wrote in message ... I took two metal dowsing rods Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Steve And not a septic? I almost took you up on the offer to demonstrate within 25 miles BTW, it may not apply in your locatioin, but looking for a septic tank might be as easy as looking for the greenest/better growing lawn grass... -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
#16
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No Septic Tank?
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:41:19 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube. The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and parking areas. Steve I did own a home once with a dual septic tank system. I would have never guessed one was in the front yard... -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
#17
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
"David Martel" wrote in message nk.net... Steve, Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field but a leach field must have a tank. ....a leach field _SHOULD_ have a tank..." What somebody did to cut corners is anybody's guess, I guess... .... I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube. The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and parking areas. Did you just purchase this property? If so: Wasn't it necessary for previous owner to disclose the condition prior to purchase? Didn't do an inspection prior to purchase? Can't ask prior owner what the deal is now even if others are "no"? -- |
#18
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No Septic Tank?
"Steve B" wrote in message ... "Toller" wrote in message ... I took two metal dowsing rods Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Would they find cement or clay pipe? |
#19
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No Septic Tank?
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:56:27 GMT, "Toller" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message ... "Toller" wrote in message ... I took two metal dowsing rods Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Would they find cement or clay pipe? What about snipping the ends off the tie-wires? Anything dramatic, let us know!. It could put _call_before_you_dig_ out of business. -- Oren ...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo.. |
#20
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No Septic Tank?
In article ,
Oren wrote: Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Steve And not a septic? If the tank is non-metallic, I think you need a crystal pendulum to find it. The good news is that this will also tell you if it is a boy tank or a girl tank. -- --Tim Smith |
#21
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No Septic Tank?
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:30:39 -0700, "Steve B" wrote: "Toller" wrote in message ... I took two metal dowsing rods Are the dowsing rods metal, or do they locate metal? They are made out of rebar tie wire, and they will find any kind of pipe. They will also find metal objects as small as a tin can lid.. Steve And not a septic? I almost took you up on the offer to demonstrate within 25 miles BTW, it may not apply in your locatioin, but looking for a septic tank might be as easy as looking for the greenest/better growing lawn grass... -- Oren We are leaving for Utah for two weeks in the morning. Any time after that, I would be happy to meet you and give you a demonstration. It is a method that works, and saves a lot of time and money looking for pipes. Steve |
#22
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No Septic Tank?
"dpb" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: "David Martel" wrote in message nk.net... Steve, Are you sure you have a septic system? You may have a line dropping raw sewage into a nearby river. What you describe sounds like a leach field but a leach field must have a tank. ...a leach field _SHOULD_ have a tank..." What somebody did to cut corners is anybody's guess, I guess... ... I do see some digging, though. I'm going to call the septic guy and have him come and assess the situation, and maybe run a camera down the tube. The whole purpose of this is to make sure the septic system is in good shape before I bring in a bunch of sand and gravel to level the driveway and parking areas. Did you just purchase this property? If so: Wasn't it necessary for previous owner to disclose the condition prior to purchase? Didn't do an inspection prior to purchase? Can't ask prior owner what the deal is now even if others are "no"? I am going up to the property tomorrow. In this mountainous area, almost anything goes. I am going to go to the office where the records SHOULD be, and say I'm considering putting in a driveway, and want to know if they have any drawings. We are the third owners of the cabin, and original drawings, plans, and notes are unavailable. We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point 50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of infiltration from the septic systems. The system was designed and put in by a team of doctors, the original owners of the properties. It is currently maintained and monitored by a doctor. But, still, it's not 100% legal, so we try to attract as little bureaucracy as possible to our little corner of Paradise. I'm going to do some more digging to see if I can get more clues. Being post 5 way bypass surgery with an artificial aortic valve, digging in hard soil is not one of my most favorite activities any more. Steve |
#23
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No Septic Tank?
On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote:
Would they find cement or clay pipe? The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead "the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily recognizable by drilling contractors" http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm |
#24
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No Septic Tank?
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#25
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
.... We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point 50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of infiltration from the septic systems. ... That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea just to ensure conditions... -- |
#26
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No Septic Tank?
"dpb" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: ... We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point 50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of infiltration from the septic systems. ... That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea just to ensure conditions... -- How does that work when all of the houses are lower than the spring? Steve |
#27
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No Septic Tank?
"mike" wrote in message ups.com... On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote: Would they find cement or clay pipe? The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead "the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily recognizable by drilling contractors" http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm Ah, yes. Scientific facts that contradict reality. Some people have made careers out of it, like AlGore. It is not difficult to understand how people who are educated beyond their capacity can sit around and write papers on things they don't have a clue about. They're trained to do just that. Or paid for it. Bring me any premise, and I can provide an expert witness to refute it. It happens hundreds of times a day in our legal system. (Remember the "Dream Team"?) There are MILLIONS of examples of the scientific community taking a stand on something, only to find out they were full of hooey. Or their grants were taken away, then the next year, they came out with a totally different "finding". Coffee is good for you. Coffee is bad for you. Coffee is good and bad for you. Coffee doesn't make any difference. Which one is it? It depends on the day of the week, and which opinion is popular, and who you pay for the report. As I said, I offered Oren a free demonstration when I get back in town. It's kind of like God. You believe in it or you don't. Who's right? Everyone. Steve |
#28
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No Septic Tank?
In article , "Steve B" wrote:
"mike" wrote in message oups.com... On Jun 16, 3:56 pm, "Toller" wrote: Would they find cement or clay pipe? The National Ground Water Association dismisses the idea of water dowsing as "totally without scientific merit" and recommends instead "the use of proven hydrogeological and geophysical techniques for groundwater reconnaissance when its presence is not easily recognizable by drilling contractors" http://www.ngwa.org/ngwainwashington/isswitch.cfm Ah, yes. Scientific facts that contradict reality. [snip] As I said, I offered Oren a free demonstration when I get back in town. Never mind Oren -- demonstrate it to James Randi, and win a million dollars. http://randi.org/research/index.html -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#29
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No Septic Tank?
Steve B wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: ... We are on a self-installed water system, and have a couple of other gray areas that we do not want to draw attention to. The spring is at a point 50' higher than the highest property, so there's not a chance of infiltration from the septic systems. ... That's a reasonable bet, but certainly not ironclad. In mountainous territory particularly, there _can_ be distant causes of head other than local terrain. Periodic testing if not done now wouldn't be a bad idea just to ensure conditions... -- How does that work when all of the houses are lower than the spring? Simplest is the case of the crest you're on being an intermediate and there's a hydrologic underground connection from the higher peak... Ever wonder how the spring is fed if it's the highest point around? -- |
#30
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No Septic Tank?
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