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Default Screwgun Recommendation

I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil no
longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any parts
available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun. Harbor
Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99 is
tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some pros
talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and getting
new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a Ridgid R6000
from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a lifetime warranty
(VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either of these? Thanks.

Mike D.


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"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any parts
available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun. Harbor
Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99 is
tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some pros
talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and getting
new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a Ridgid R6000
from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a lifetime warranty
(VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either of these?
Thanks.

Good luck registering the Ridgid. Ridgid refused mine because the HD
receipt wasn't adequate.
Don't know what the hell they wanted as I chose not to fight this one.


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Default Screwgun Recommendation

I have one of the great Skil's too if we are talking the same model. It is
automatic locking so when you don't give it power it locks the front
automatically and you can use it as manual screwdriver. Too bad the
batteries are so expensive and don't last.


"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any parts
available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun. Harbor
Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99 is
tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some pros
talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and getting
new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a Ridgid R6000
from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a lifetime warranty
(VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either of these?
Thanks.

Mike D.



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Default Screwgun Recommendation


Mike Dobony wrote:
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil no
longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any parts
available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun. Harbor
Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99 is
tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some pros
talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and getting
new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a Ridgid R6000
from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a lifetime warranty
(VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either of these? Thanks.

Mike D.


Check out the Senco Duraspin line on Amazon.com. The box store types
aren't in the same ballpark. A Senco will probably last you many times
longer than the cheapoes and their service and parts are great. And
they come with a no hassle warranty. HTH

Joe

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Default Screwgun Recommendation


"Art" wrote in message
ink.net...
I have one of the great Skil's too if we are talking the same model. It
is automatic locking so when you don't give it power it locks the front
automatically and you can use it as manual screwdriver. Too bad the
batteries are so expensive and don't last.


No, we are not talking about the same model. Mine is a professional
screwgun for screwing in drywall and decking.


"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any
parts available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun.
Harbor Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99
is tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some
pros talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and
getting new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a
Ridgid R6000 from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a
lifetime warranty (VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with
either of these? Thanks.

Mike D.





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Default Screwgun Recommendation


"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great
except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no
longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any parts
available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun.
Harbor
Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99 is
tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some pros
talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and
getting
new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a Ridgid R6000
from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a lifetime warranty
(VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either of these?
Thanks.

Mike D.


Check out the Senco Duraspin line on Amazon.com. The box store types
aren't in the same ballpark. A Senco will probably last you many times
longer than the cheapoes and their service and parts are great. And
they come with a no hassle warranty. HTH

Joe


I don't see any that use uncollated screws. The collated screws are VERY
expensive compared to the loose screws and do not have the variety of styles
and sizes available in loose boxed screws (trim screws for instance or pan
head).


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"DanG" wrote in message
...
If you really like the Skil brand gun you have, try here for the part:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/noframes.cgi/skil/6906_TYPE_2


That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any
parts available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun.
Harbor Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99
is tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some
pros talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and
getting new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a
Ridgid R6000 from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a
lifetime warranty (VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either
of these? Thanks.

Mike D.







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Default Screwgun Recommendation

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:03:47 GMT, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:


"DanG" wrote in message
...
If you really like the Skil brand gun you have, try here for the part:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/noframes.cgi/skil/6906_TYPE_2


That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?

I think they have metal lathes!

I bumped into a machine shop around here and auto parts stores have
names, and the yellow pages.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
...
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place. Unfortunately Skil
no longer makes any screwgun and needless to say they do not have any
parts available for this screwgun. I am therefore looking for a new gun.
Harbor Freight's gun looks exactly like the DeWalt screwgun and at $39.99
is tempting to get with the 2 year extended warranty (I overheard some
pros talking about buying the HF roofing guns and extended warranty and
getting new ones all the time on HF). My other tempting option is a
Ridgid R6000 from Home Depot because when I register it I can get a
lifetime warranty (VERY tempting). Anybody have any experience with either
of these? Thanks.

Mike D.





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"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:03:47 GMT, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:


"DanG" wrote in message
...
If you really like the Skil brand gun you have, try here for the part:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/noframes.cgi/skil/6906_TYPE_2


That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I
had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it
work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller
than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?

I think they have metal lathes!

I bumped into a machine shop around here and auto parts stores have
names, and the yellow pages.


Finding a reputable one who will do a small job like this and not charge
half the price of a new gun is difficult. The charge for setup is more than
the cost of the machining. What I need to find is more of a hobbist, not a
business.



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Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

Not if they can get away with out

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?



I have a 1/4 million in capital equipment, how much should I charge?


Seriously, unless you have a friend.......








I think they

have metal lathes!

I bumped into a machine shop around here and auto parts stores have
names, and the yellow pages.
--
______________________________

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Default Screwgun Recommendation

According to Mike Dobony :

"DanG" wrote in message
...
If you really like the Skil brand gun you have, try here for the part:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/noframes.cgi/skil/6906_TYPE_2


That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.


Something like that you can probably do while holding the bit
in a drill against a grinding wheel and go slowly, dip the end
in water frequently.

In other cases, you might be able to drive the shank out
of the body far enough to work using a flat end punch and
a decent hammer. If it falls out, glue it back in with
epoxy.

Aha - look half way down http://www.wihatools.com/700_BitHolders.htm

there you go.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Screwgun Recommendation

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:41 GMT, yourname wrote:


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

Not if they can get away with out


So, the OP should go there and only be willing to pay a reasonable
price, and see if they'll do it. You don't get anywhere if you don't
ask. He had sense enough to ask this ng for ideas. He should ask a
mahcine shop guy.

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?


This was partly rhetorical. A guy who isn't busy or wants to be a
nice guy will charge what he thinks it is worth to the customer if he
won't feel put upon doing so.

I have a 1/4 million in capital equipment, how much should I charge?


Welll you shouldn't charge 10,000 dollars. You can't expect to make a
year's interest in 10 or 20 minutes.

Seriously, unless you have a friend.......


If you have all this machinery, you don't go to other machine shops
and you only know how much you would charge. I've always assumed that
things I never bought before cost a lot of money, and I'm often wrong.
This included foam rubber, lucite, and welding. The welding guys have
thousands of dollars of equipement and a whole shop they own or rent
and both of them wanted very little to do a welding job that took at
least 20 minutes when one did it. (I priced the welding at one shop
next to the place I expected to order the part, but when the time came
had it done near where I live.)








I think they

have metal lathes!

I bumped into a machine shop around here and auto parts stores have
names, and the yellow pages.
--
______________________________




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"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Mike Dobony :

"DanG" wrote in message
...
If you really like the Skil brand gun you have, try here for the part:
http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/noframes.cgi/skil/6906_TYPE_2


That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I
had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it
work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller
than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder
turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF
I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.


Something like that you can probably do while holding the bit
in a drill against a grinding wheel and go slowly, dip the end
in water frequently.


If you can get a piece of hardened rod down .070+-.005 on the full length of
0.650" on such a setup AND keep it round you are a master machinist! And
NOT water, but cutting oil or coolant, NEVER water! You are NOT a master
machinist!

In other cases, you might be able to drive the shank out
of the body far enough to work using a flat end punch and
a decent hammer. If it falls out, glue it back in with
epoxy.


The wall is too thin on that type of bit holder. It must be a single piece
of metal to be able to machine it to those dimensions and still last.

Aha - look half way down http://www.wihatools.com/700_BitHolders.htm


There I am with the same thing as the DeWalt, PLUS shipping and handling!
From the picture I can tell that the diameter is too large!

there you go.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.



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"mm" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:41 GMT, yourname wrote:


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

Not if they can get away with out


So, the OP should go there and only be willing to pay a reasonable
price, and see if they'll do it. You don't get anywhere if you don't
ask. He had sense enough to ask this ng for ideas. He should ask a
mahcine shop guy.


I WORKED in a machine shop. A friend is the only option until I have the
space and extra money to set up my own hobby machine shop. The lathe in
question for the smallest size that would do this job, but not other
wished-for projects is about $700 unless I can find one in an estate sale.

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?


This was partly rhetorical. A guy who isn't busy or wants to be a
nice guy will charge what he thinks it is worth to the customer if he
won't feel put upon doing so.

I have a 1/4 million in capital equipment, how much should I charge?


Welll you shouldn't charge 10,000 dollars. You can't expect to make a
year's interest in 10 or 20 minutes.

Seriously, unless you have a friend.......


If you have all this machinery, you don't go to other machine shops
and you only know how much you would charge. I've always assumed that
things I never bought before cost a lot of money, and I'm often wrong.
This included foam rubber, lucite, and welding. The welding guys have
thousands of dollars of equipement and a whole shop they own or rent
and both of them wanted very little to do a welding job that took at
least 20 minutes when one did it. (I priced the welding at one shop
next to the place I expected to order the part, but when the time came
had it done near where I live.)








I think they

have metal lathes!

I bumped into a machine shop around here and auto parts stores have
names, and the yellow pages.
--
______________________________




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Default Screwgun Recommendation

Mike Dobony wrote:
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great except
that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place.


Do you want torque adjustment or depth adjustment? Milwaukee makes both.

Chris
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"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Mike Dobony wrote:
I have an old, but great condition Skil Screwgun model 6906. Great
except that the bit holder no longer holds the bit in place.


Do you want torque adjustment or depth adjustment? Milwaukee makes both.

Chris



Depth adjust. I didn't have time to mess with this and needed it right away
so I went ahead and bought the Ridgid.


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"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
t...

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:53:41 GMT, yourname wrote:


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

Not if they can get away with out


So, the OP should go there and only be willing to pay a reasonable
price, and see if they'll do it. You don't get anywhere if you don't
ask. He had sense enough to ask this ng for ideas. He should ask a
mahcine shop guy.


I WORKED in a machine shop. A friend is the only option until I have the
space and extra money to set up my own hobby machine shop. The lathe in
question for the smallest size that would do this job, but not other
wished-for projects is about $700 unless I can find one in an estate sale.


Also, when should I ask the machine shop guy? When I loose the price of the
gun anyway by taking off work to locate a machine shop that would do this
for a reasonable price? I DON'T have any vacation time. I also need it by
today, by this morning! Therefore I bought the Ridgid yesterday because of
the low torque of the Harbor Freight gun.

Mike D.




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According to Mike Dobony :

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
Something like that you can probably do while holding the bit
in a drill against a grinding wheel and go slowly, dip the end
in water frequently.


If you can get a piece of hardened rod down .070+-.005 on the full length of
0.650" on such a setup AND keep it round you are a master machinist! And
NOT water, but cutting oil or coolant, NEVER water! You are NOT a master
machinist!


If you're using a grinder, water is just fine. The idea is to
keep it cool.

Aha - look half way down http://www.wihatools.com/700_BitHolders.htm


There I am with the same thing as the DeWalt, PLUS shipping and handling!
From the picture I can tell that the diameter is too large!


Uh, no, take a look at the shank lengths. It's 1/4" hex stock, _not_
the outer diameter. #71433 would have probably done you, #71435
definately would.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:09:01 GMT, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:

That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I
had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it
work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller
than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.


Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?


If all you need is a bit like the Harbor Freight one referenced, I
will do that for you. How many do you want done?

NO charge. You pay freight.

Email me off line and we will work it out.

camperkn at yahoo dot com
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"Camperken" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:09:01 GMT, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:

That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I
had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it
work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller
than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder
turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF
I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.

Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?


If all you need is a bit like the Harbor Freight one referenced, I
will do that for you. How many do you want done?


???????????????? Harbor Freight does NOT have the bit I need. I was asking
about the screwgun they have.

NO charge. You pay freight.

Email me off line and we will work it out.

camperkn at yahoo dot com



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"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Mike Dobony :

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
Something like that you can probably do while holding the bit
in a drill against a grinding wheel and go slowly, dip the end
in water frequently.


If you can get a piece of hardened rod down .070+-.005 on the full length
of
0.650" on such a setup AND keep it round you are a master machinist! And
NOT water, but cutting oil or coolant, NEVER water! You are NOT a master
machinist!


If you're using a grinder, water is just fine. The idea is to
keep it cool.


You are no machinist. The water does more than keep it cool. It needs a
lubricant and the water does not do a very good job of lubrication. Oil or
coolant keeps the part from becoming brittle.

Aha - look half way down http://www.wihatools.com/700_BitHolders.htm


There I am with the same thing as the DeWalt, PLUS shipping and handling!
From the picture I can tell that the diameter is too large!


Uh, no, take a look at the shank lengths. It's 1/4" hex stock, _not_
the outer diameter. #71433 would have probably done you, #71435
definately would.
--


I am not talking about the hex part, but the cylindrical part that the bit
sits in. The diameter is too large. The OUTER diameter is why I can't use
the DeWalt bit holder. The OUTER diameter needs to be turned down ABOVE the
hex.



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On Tue, 1 May 2007 16:37:37 -0500, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:


"Camperken" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:09:01 GMT, "Mike Dobony"
wrote:

That has every part of the gun EXCEPT the specialized tool holder. If I
had
a metal lathe and carbide cutting tip I could turn down the shaft of a
DeWalt bit holder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/h4639) and make it
work.
The problem is that the seal at the end of the drill portion is smaller
than
a standard tool holder. Just above the hex shank I need the holder
turned
down from about 0.450" to 0.370" for about 0.650", a simple operation IF
I
had a metal lathe. I can find lots of bit holders that are the right
length, but they are too thick to fit in the gun.

Don't machine shops do that sort of thing for people who hire them?

If it is really just one setup and one operation, how much would they
charge?

If all you need is a bit like the Harbor Freight one referenced, I
will do that for you. How many do you want done?


???????????????? Harbor Freight does NOT have the bit I need. I was asking
about the screwgun they have.


My mistake. The machining offer stands.

Email me off line and we will work it out.

camperkn at yahoo dot com






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According to Mike Dobony :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Mike Dobony :

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
Something like that you can probably do while holding the bit
in a drill against a grinding wheel and go slowly, dip the end
in water frequently.

If you can get a piece of hardened rod down .070+-.005 on the full length
of
0.650" on such a setup AND keep it round you are a master machinist! And
NOT water, but cutting oil or coolant, NEVER water! You are NOT a master
machinist!


If you're using a grinder, water is just fine. The idea is to
keep it cool.


You are no machinist. The water does more than keep it cool. It needs a
lubricant and the water does not do a very good job of lubrication. Oil or
coolant keeps the part from becoming brittle.

Aha - look half way down http://www.wihatools.com/700_BitHolders.htm


There I am with the same thing as the DeWalt, PLUS shipping and handling!
From the picture I can tell that the diameter is too large!


Uh, no, take a look at the shank lengths. It's 1/4" hex stock, _not_
the outer diameter. #71433 would have probably done you, #71435
definately would.
--


I am not talking about the hex part, but the cylindrical part that the bit
sits in. The diameter is too large. The OUTER diameter is why I can't use
the DeWalt bit holder. The OUTER diameter needs to be turned down ABOVE the
hex.


Maybe I'm missing something, but if the hex is long enough to clear
the housing entirely, why do you care how big the outer diameter
is?
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Mike Dobony wrote:
"Chris Lewis" wrote...
If you're using a grinder, water is just fine. The idea is to
keep it cool.


You are no machinist. The water does more than keep it cool. It needs a
lubricant and the water does not do a very good job of lubrication. Oil or
coolant keeps the part from becoming brittle.


I can picture how cooling would prevent brittleness. I can't imagine how
lubrication could prevent brittleness.

--
Postulate a God who's so smart He designed things we won't discover for the
next ten years, but who's so incredibly stupid He couldn't think up the
theory of evolution. Duhhhhhhhh. "Damn, Darwin, what a great idea!"
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According to clifto :
Mike Dobony wrote:
"Chris Lewis" wrote...
If you're using a grinder, water is just fine. The idea is to
keep it cool.


You are no machinist. The water does more than keep it cool. It needs a
lubricant and the water does not do a very good job of lubrication. Oil or
coolant keeps the part from becoming brittle.


I can picture how cooling would prevent brittleness. I can't imagine how
lubrication could prevent brittleness.


Mike's gotten confused. You don't use lubricants with grinding wheels.
Grinding wheels should be used on dry metal, they rely on both the
abrasion and instantaneous melting (the sparks) to cut. With hardened
steel or carbide, the melting does more of the cutting than the abrasion
does.

If you're sharpening a chisel on a grinder, you'll often need to
keep a cup of water around. The idea being that you need to keep the
edge of the blade from getting too hot ("burning") by periodically
dipping the chisel in the water. If it gets too hot, the hardened steel
of the blade detempers and gets soft - you end up softening the chisel
so it won't keep an edge. You either have to regrind the chisel
to remove the softened spot, retemper it, toss it out, or retire it
to opening paint cans and chopping thru nails.

Note with high speed grinders (eg: dremels, bench grinders) you _don't_
put the coolant on the wheel. You periodically cool the work by dipping
it.

My idea was to use a grinder to turn down part of the body of a
hex bit holder because he didn't have access to a metal lathe. Yes,
it's quite tricky, but it can be done - eg: by placing the hex
bit holder into a drill, starting the drill, and holding it against
a bench grinder wheel. The grinder will heat up the bit holder. Periodic
dipping in water will prevent it getting too hot. Softening it isn't
likely a big problem, but causing it to get too hot might loosen it
on the hex shank.

If you use a lubricant on a grinding wheel, at best you'll slow its
cutting down. More likely, you'll foul the wheel, spray gooey gunk
all over the place, and perhaps start a fire (depending on what the
lubricant is).

When you're cutting metal with edged tools (eg: lathe or milling machine),
the metal is being cut, not melted. The cutting tool is going _much_ slower.
Depending on the material, depth of cut, etc, sometimes you need a lubricant
to prevent the metal or tool bit from overheating and detempering/burning.

Lubricants do dual function - by lubricating the cutting action, they
reduce heat production. They also provide a direct cooling function by
transferring what heat is produced away from the work.

You may not be able to turn down the body of a hex bit holder on a lathe
using regular tool bits. The body is hardened at least somewhat (otherwise
it'd simply break in use), and many will simply be too hard to cut with
regular lathe bits (perhaps only with carbide bits). If a hacksaw or
file won't cut it, you'll have a real problem with a lathe.

Generally speaking, once metal is hard enough that a hacksaw or file
won't cut it, only a grinding wheel will touch it.

And BTW: different materials use different lubricant/coolants. IIRC,
cast iron works well with straight water. Steel is most often done with
Dromus, which is bought as a concentrate and diluted 10:1 with water before
use. [I'd have to pull my machinist references out to find out what's in
Dromus]. Lard (yes, lard) is good with some materials. "Sulfurous oil"
with others. Etc.

There are a few lubricants that work with almost everything - these
are usually commercially-made mixtures.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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According to Chris Lewis :
According to clifto :


I can picture how cooling would prevent brittleness. I can't imagine how
lubrication could prevent brittleness.


Mike's gotten confused. You don't use lubricants with grinding wheels.
Grinding wheels should be used on dry metal, they rely on both the
abrasion and instantaneous melting (the sparks) to cut. With hardened
steel or carbide, the melting does more of the cutting than the abrasion
does.


The picky may notice that there are _some_ grinding setups designed
to be cooled with a continuous stream of water. These are low speed
grinders (up to 200RPM or so) _mostly_ used for sharpening woodworking
tools - allows you to fine grind for long periods of time without overheating
and detempering the metal - in contrast with a standard bench grinder
that's usually running at 3600RPM with silicon dioxide (hard!) wheels
that will burn a chisel quite fast if you're not careful. Wet grinders
are not suitable for general metal shaping.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Chris Lcan picture how cooling would prevent brittleness. I can't
imagine how
lubrication could prevent brittleness.


Mike's gotten confused. You don't use lubricants with grinding wheels.
Grinding wheels should be used on dry metal, they rely on both the
abrasion and instantaneous melting (the sparks) to cut. With hardened
steel or carbide, the melting does more of the cutting than the abrasion
does.



nope

While you don't see it in the average shop, there are plenty of wet high
speed grinding processes. Full flood coolant on a surface grinder or
cylindrical grinder. Taking a part out to dip it in water is not a
production oriented process


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Default Screwgun Recommendation

According to yourname :
Chris Lcan picture how cooling would prevent brittleness. I can't
imagine how
lubrication could prevent brittleness.


Mike's gotten confused. You don't use lubricants with grinding wheels.
Grinding wheels should be used on dry metal, they rely on both the
abrasion and instantaneous melting (the sparks) to cut. With hardened
steel or carbide, the melting does more of the cutting than the abrasion
does.


While you don't see it in the average shop, there are plenty of wet high
speed grinding processes. Full flood coolant on a surface grinder or
cylindrical grinder. Taking a part out to dip it in water is not a
production oriented process


I think it's save to omit high speed production grinding systems
from what a guy who can't afford to have a metal lathe - the
context of the original thread.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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