I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

On May 2, 2:33 am, The Space Boss wrote:
I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. This creates reduced
water volume. Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

And hopefully your house doesn't get cold enough for the pipes to
freeze.

Brian

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 2, 2:33 am, The Space Boss wrote:
I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. This creates reduced
water volume. Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

And hopefully your house doesn't get cold enough for the pipes to
freeze.

Brian

They may be referring to PEX. It looks like stiff rubber hose and it cuts
labor time substantially from what I see. No threading, soldering or gluing.
The PEX is cut to size with a plier type cutter and clamped with a squeeze
type clamping tool. Looks very easy for do-it-yourselfers but the clamping
tool is very expensive.

On May 2, 6:26�am, "jerryl" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 2, 2:33 am, The Space Boss wrote:
I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. *It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. *This creates reduced
water volume. *Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

And hopefully your house doesn't get cold enough for the pipes to
freeze.

Brian

They may be referring to PEX. * It looks like stiff rubber hose and it cuts
labor time substantially from what I see. No threading, soldering or gluing.
The PEX is cut to size with a plier type cutter *and clamped with a squeeze
type clamping tool. Looks very easy for do-it-yourselfers but the clamping
tool is very expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

PEX is great. water stays warmer in pex, its flexible, easier to
install, ONE LINE to each fixture will all valves on a manifold, no
buried connections in walls. its been used in europe for a long time.
when we redo our bath PEX will replace the copper, with a dedicated
line to each fixture. no more scalds if someone flushes the toilet.

"The Space Boss" wrote in message
ups.com...
I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.


I some cases plastic or the garden hose type PEX is superior due to soil
conditions copper will deteriorate. Butt 99% of the time copper is best plus
rodents can not chew threw it, witch has happened . Copper prices arte
extremely high, the plastic type pipeing system are all about saving Money
& time for you and the contractor. PRICE , QUALITY, TIME any two not all
three.

On May 2, 6:11 am, "Sacramento Dave" wrote:
"The Space Boss" wrote in oglegroups.com...

I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

I some cases plastic or the garden hose type PEX is superior due to soil
conditions copper will deteriorate. Butt 99% of the time copper is best plus
rodents can not chew threw it, witch has happened . Copper prices arte
extremely high, the plastic type pipeing system are all about saving Money
& time for you and the contractor. PRICE , QUALITY, TIME any two not all
three.


Butt 99% of the time copper is best plus
rodents can not chew threw it, witch has happened . Copper prices arte
extremely high, the plastic type pipeing system are all about saving
Money
& time for you and the contractor. PRICE , QUALITY, TIME any two not
all
three.


I would agree with Dave's comments

Just did a re-pipe (1930 2 story, 2 bath, kitchen & laundry) with a
PEX / copper hybrid system.

After researching it for a LONG time & then finally taking the
plunge .........I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the
choices & options.

All the "easy / straight" runs from the meter to my "utility
basement" & sprinkler valve manifolds we done in copper.

From the cold & hot valved manifolds in the "basement" to each fixture
hot & cold were done in continuous PEX runs (red & blue)

I did a very careful demolition & prep for the installation since I
didn't want to damage the decorative plaster in the "public areas" of
the house

The flexiblilty of the PEX (more than soft copper, less than a garden
hose) allowed the PEX to be easily (relatively) snaked through
crawlspace & walls.
The 90 deg sweeps up to fixture angle stops were pretty easy as well.

No fittings except at manifolds & fixtures.

The installation was a breeze, we used the expander system not the
crimp ring..............no leaks! (yet?)

I did (do) have some concerns........rodents, chlorine & nails

but the PEX was so much faster, easier & less damaging to my house
that I went with it.
I'm very happy (so far) but we'll see.

If I had a blank slate ( a new or completely gutted home) I think I
might stick with copper but the benefits of PEX are pretty
enticing ......

The home run manifold system is pretty cool

oh.....one last comment, a PEX system seems to be much quieter than
copper, the new copper Iines (great flow!) are pretty noisy (flow not
water hammer)

cheers
Bob

When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. This creates reduced
water volume. Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

Naww..Never use CPVC for a "real" house..maybe for mobile home replacement..

The "new" plastic is called PEX. I'd use it over copper any day as long as
the plumber knows how to install it.
I do. Do a Google search for Aquapex or Wirsbo.
Its great stuff. Had it put in our last two custom homes. Easy to work
with..No soldered joints. No air hammers or pipe noise.

Looks very easy for do-it-yourselfers but the clamping tool is very
expensive.

It rents for $ 10/day at Home Depot

In article 3Gw_h.158524$aG1.2963@pd7urf3no,
says...
Looks very easy for do-it-yourselfers but the clamping tool is very
expensive.

It rents for $ 10/day at Home Depot


Or buy it for $130, use it as long as you need it, and surplus it on
eBay for almost what you paid for it.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Infrared Photography Gallery:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/photo/ir.html

On May 3, 8:13 pm, "Rudy" wrote:
When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. This creates reduced
water volume. Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

Naww..Never use CPVC for a "real" house..maybe for mobile home replacement..

The "new" plastic is called PEX. I'd use it over copper any day as long as
the plumber knows how to install it.
I do. Do a Google search for Aquapex or Wirsbo.
Its great stuff. Had it put in our last two custom homes. Easy to work
with..No soldered joints. No air hammers or pipe noise.

Again, Rudy, what happens if somehow you had a rodent chewed through
the PEX? And how long does PEX last? ANd what of water pressure? Is
there any chance it could rupture under too much pressure? And what of
attic installation? If it gets 105 in the desert, the attic of a house
could really bake. Could it not exceed the 200 degrees?

Again, Rudy, what happens if somehow you had a rodent chewed through the
PEX?

What if an asteroid crashed thru the roof and hit the pipe ?

And how long does PEX last?

The Wirsbo PEX is cross-linked polyethylene with an oxygen infusion barrier.
It has been used in Europe for 30 years, with more than 4 billion feet of
installed tubing performing without a single incidence of product failure.
500 million feet of that is in North America alone. Samples of the tubing
have been under high temperature and pressure continuously since 1973, with
no sign of decreased performance. Tests, both by Wirsbo and independent
sources, predict that the Wirsbo PEX tubing should have a system life in
excess of 100 years

And what of water pressure? Is there any chance it could rupture under too
much pressure?

Wirsbo PEX tubing currently holds the unofficial world record for long-term
testing at elevated temperature and pressure -- 26 years at 203° F at 151
psi, and still going. When the test is completed, the record will be
official.

And what of attic installation? If it gets 105 in the desert, the attic of
a house
could really bake. Could it not exceed the 200 degrees?

No..our house was in the Sonoran desert where the OAT EXCEEDED 105 oF. The
PEX was plumbed thru the attic spaces. No problems after 8 1/2 years and
BTW, see above, Home plumbing is NEVER anywhere near 150 PSI..more like 70
# or less.

On May 3, 11:23 pm, "Rudy" wrote:
Again, Rudy, what happens if somehow you had a rodent chewed through the
PEX?

What if an asteroid crashed thru the roof and hit the pipe ?

And how long does PEX last?

The Wirsbo PEX is cross-linked polyethylene with an oxygen infusion barrier.
It has been used in Europe for 30 years, with more than 4 billion feet of
installed tubing performing without a single incidence of product failure.
500 million feet of that is in North America alone. Samples of the tubing
have been under high temperature and pressure continuously since 1973, with
no sign of decreased performance. Tests, both by Wirsbo and independent
sources, predict that the Wirsbo PEX tubing should have a system life in
excess of 100 years

And what of water pressure? Is there any chance it could rupture under too
much pressure?

Wirsbo PEX tubing currently holds the unofficial world record for long-term
testing at elevated temperature and pressure -- 26 years at 203° F at 151
psi, and still going. When the test is completed, the record will be
official.

And what of attic installation? If it gets 105 in the desert, the attic of
a house
could really bake. Could it not exceed the 200 degrees?

No..our house was in the Sonoran desert where the OAT EXCEEDED 105 oF. The
PEX was plumbed thru the attic spaces. No problems after 8 1/2 years and
BTW, see above, Home plumbing is NEVER anywhere near 150 PSI..more like 70
# or less.

Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated. So you think if I ever
need to get my 1966 home re-plumed, I should NOT insist on copper???

PVC is superior t metallic pipes in all respects- no corrosion and
should last longer than the house.


On May 2, 2:33 am, The Space Boss wrote:
I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

In article ,
wrote:
Or buy it for $130, use it as long as you need it, and surplus it on
eBay for almost what you paid for it.

Interesting. While checking eBay to see what those tools are going for,
I noticed this "buy it now" listing, for a tool that handles all three
sizes, and is only $40 new.

I wonder if it is any good?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEX-Crimp-Tool-3...QitemZ26011371
2841QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42133QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://tinyurl.com/342jck



--
--Tim Smith

On May 2, 3:09 am, wrote:
On May 2, 2:33 am, The Space Boss wrote:

I was talking to a plumber and he told me that new houses being built
no longer use copper plumbing. In fact, he told me that the "plastic
type" pipes (I forget what the material actually is) is actually
superior to copper.

Is this true? It seems to me that copper would stand up better against
the elements "freezing, etc" than Plastic would.

Please advise.

When I put the addition on our house in the late 80's I used the white
1/2" CPVC pipe and have regretted using it since. It was easier to
assembly, just glue, no soldering but if you look in the end of the
pipe the wall thickness is bigger than copper. This creates reduced
water volume. Our shower in the addition is about 3/4 strength that
it should be, toilet takes longer to fill, etc.

Stick to copper.

And hopefully your house doesn't get cold enough for the pipes to
freeze.

Brian

Brian-

The inside diameters of

1/2" CPVC . 602"
1/2" copper type L .545"
1/2" copper type M .569"

flow through the CPVC should easily be equal or better than 1/2"
copper

Even in nominal 3/4 size, the inside diameters are about equal
between CPVC & copper

Unless you've got a really long run to that shower, 1/2 CPVC should
supply it just fine.

I wondering if there might be another cause?

cheers
Bob

On May 4, 12:23 am, The Space Boss wrote:
On May 3, 11:23 pm, "Rudy" wrote:



Again, Rudy, what happens if somehow you had a rodent chewed through the
PEX?

What if an asteroid crashed thru the roof and hit the pipe ?

And how long does PEX last?

The Wirsbo PEX is cross-linked polyethylene with an oxygen infusion barrier.
It has been used in Europe for 30 years, with more than 4 billion feet of
installed tubing performing without a single incidence of product failure.
500 million feet of that is in North America alone. Samples of the tubing
have been under high temperature and pressure continuously since 1973, with
no sign of decreased performance. Tests, both by Wirsbo and independent
sources, predict that the Wirsbo PEX tubing should have a system life in
excess of 100 years

And what of water pressure? Is there any chance it could rupture under too
much pressure?

Wirsbo PEX tubing currently holds the unofficial world record for long-term
testing at elevated temperature and pressure -- 26 years at 203° F at 151
psi, and still going. When the test is completed, the record will be
official.

And what of attic installation? If it gets 105 in the desert, the attic of
a house
could really bake. Could it not exceed the 200 degrees?

No..our house was in the Sonoran desert where the OAT EXCEEDED 105 oF. The
PEX was plumbed thru the attic spaces. No problems after 8 1/2 years and
BTW, see above, Home plumbing is NEVER anywhere near 150 PSI..more like 70
# or less.

Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated. So you think if I ever
need to get my 1966 home re-plumed, I should NOT insist on copper???

SB-

I assume your 1966 home was plumbed with copper?

If so, unless you've got water chemistry (usually well water) that
eats copper, that copper piping in your home will a very, very long
time.

My parents house (1959, SoCal) was plumbed with copper & no problems
so far. I just re-piped with PEX removing the original 1930 galv
steel. The water in my area must be particularly easy on pipes.

If your home ever needs re-pipe (& I doubt it will) Type L copper
or PEX would both be good choices

cheers
Bob

Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated. So you think if I ever
need to get my 1966 home re-plumed, I should NOT insist on copper???

Copper is fine too. I just prefer the ease, savings and other 'plusses' of
PEX

PVC is superior t metallic pipes in all respects- no corrosion and
should last longer than the house.

IIRC, PVC is NOT code for inside homes

On Mon, 07 May 2007 05:29:23 GMT, "Rudy"
wrote:


PVC is superior t metallic pipes in all respects- no corrosion and
should last longer than the house.

IIRC, PVC is NOT code for inside homes


Depends on who's code. It's legal most places, except that
(I think) you're supposed to use CPVC for hot water, and most
people therefore use it for everything, because they can't
be bothered to keep track.