OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should
I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

Jeff

That is a serious problem, a disaster waiting to happen.

I would dig around the deck, if you can, to see if the pipe travels anywhere
away from the deck.

Or, if you don't want to spend the time, or cannot access the area, install
a replacement pipe where you can open a space through the wall and across
the ground to a suitable location to discharge the water. This should bypass
the old pipe since you cannot access it. Keep the slope steady, rigid pipe
such as ABS or PVC, whatever is available for drains in your area is easier
to install sloping than flexible piping.


wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should
I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

Jeff

In article . com, wrote:

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles,

Either a major leak in the drainage tile that the sump drains into, or that
tile is [improperly] connected directly to the tiles that drain into the sump.

is that unusual / a concern,

Yes, and yes.

and how should I go about fixing it if required?

Extend the discharge pipe from the sump pump as far away from the house as you
can -- but make sure it has a continuous downward slope, and is able to drain
completely so it won't freeze up during the winter.

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

If the water's coming back that quickly, the pump is cycling much more often
than it should. That's obviously going to shorten its life substantially, so
you should get this fixed promptly. And of course if you ever have a really
heavy rainfall, it may be unable to keep up with the water. It's imperative to
get that discharged as far away from the house as practical/possible.

It's also prudent to have a backup pump with an alternate power source -- for
example, a battery-powered pump such as the Basement Watchdog, or one with a
battery backup such as Ace In The Hole. There are also water-powered backup
sump pumps available (as long as you're on a municipal water supply, and not a
well).

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mar 21, 3:44 pm, "EXT" wrote:
That is a serious problem, a disaster waiting to happen.

I would dig around the deck, if you can, to see if the pipe travels anywhere
away from the deck.
Question - what would this show me? If the water is immediately
draining back thru the drain tiles, wouldn't that mean the problem is
occuring near the foundation, which is under the deck? Just trying to
understand your diagnosis of the issue.

Or, if you don't want to spend the time, or cannot access the area, install
a replacement pipe where you can open a space through the wall and across
the ground to a suitable location to discharge the water. This should bypass
the old pipe since you cannot access it. Keep the slope steady, rigid pipe
such as ABS or PVC, whatever is available for drains in your area is easier
to install sloping than flexible piping.

Unfortunately it won't be that easy, because the area where the sump
is housed is completely surrounded by deck (it curves around the
house). I'm thinking that I will have to pry up boards, possibly
destroying them, to get to that area. That's probably the plan
anyway, but it would be nice to have a better idea of what might be
going on down there before I cause all of this destruction to get to
it.

In general, can you explain to me what you are thinking is going on?
Saying that it is a disaster waiting to happen, but with no
explaination is causing me a lot of anxiety but not really much to
help me understand it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the help, but
I just need a bit more info.

By the way, it certainly worries me (a lot of sleepless nights), but I
also know its been doing this for quite a while, and during some
pretty serious storms. For all I know, the issue could have been
going on for the entire 28 years since the home was built. As far as
I know - there is no sign of flooding.

Thanks,
Jeff

On 21 Mar 2007 12:32:40 -0700, wrote:

OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I've been trying to figure out why only a second or two after I drink
some water, I have to pee. Doesn't it hsve to go into the blood
stream and then the kidneys and bladder first?

Actually I'm not positive what is happening at your house, but I think
the same principle applies. If your sump is filling, there's water in
the dirt. More water falls on top and pushes the water at the bottom
of the dirt out, into the sump.

It's sort of like the speed of electricity, which is the speed of
light. (or the speed of light through copper, whatever that means)

I used to ask myself, are there electrons racing through the wire at
the speed of light? Seemed hard to believe. But what it is is the
impulse. If you apply a voltage at one end of the wire, the voltage
reaches the other end at the speed of light. But none of the
electrons move more than a teeny bit. But while one is moving, they
all are.

Or imagine a bunch of marbles, in a channel so they don't move out of
a straight line. Say the channel is a mile long, and it's full of
marbles, and they are all touching the ones next to them. If you push
the marble at one end, the marble at the other end, a mile away, moves
immediately, or almost so. EVen though each marble isn't moving very
fast or very far.

At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should

If it gets too bad, I guess your sump pump won't work at all, even
though it will seem to be working.

I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

This may nevef happen to you,but my pipe isn't leaking and it happened
to me. I lived here for 22 years, and one time it rained so much that
the sump overflowed, even the pump was going full blast. Even though
part way into it I was there watching, there was almost nothing I
could do. I didn't have a way to pump any more water. I couldn't
stop it with my hands. I just noted that it had almost stopped
raining, and it couldn't keep going too long after that.

(I could have plugged in the wet-dry vac and start vacuuming, but I
get lethargic in this kind of crisis. And the water had stopped
advancing, so I figured that everything that would get wet, had gotten
wet already.)

Jeff

wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

Can you stick a digital camera under there and get a better look at it?

Even better look when the pump is running and see if you can see water
spraying out somewhere on the pipe run. Those sump pumps usually discharge
with quite a bit of force. A big leak might be visable.


So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should
I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

Jeff

On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

To verify this, hold the float up to force the pump to run for a while
to see if the flow from the drain tiles diminishes.

You can tweak the floats to take this into account to some degree.
You will have the pump shut down when the sump appears to be quite
full, but the drain tile "reservoir" will in fact be mostly empty.

In article . com, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

That's not what's going on. Back up and re-read the original post: he said the
pump kicks on before the water ever rises up that high -- therefore, what's
coming back into the sump is the water he just pumped out.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 12:32:40 -0700, fwithers07 wrote:

OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should
I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

Jeff


I want to be clear here. Are you saying that the water flows in through
the drain tiles at a certain rate. Then after the pump kicks on, a few
seconds later water is flowing through the drain tiles at a much faster
rate? Which you think is the exhaust water flowing back in???

If so, I would get a pitcher and fill it with water and food coloring. A
heavy dose of coloring. Then dump it into the pit. Then watch what color
comes back in through the tiles.

Then you know for sure.

On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article . com, "cavedweller" wrote:



On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

That's not what's going on. Back up and re-read the original post: he said the
pump kicks on before the water ever rises up that high -- therefore, what's
coming back into the sump is the water he just pumped out.

I quoted it.

It tells me that the floats are set so that the pump comes on before
the sump is full.

I presume his "back thru" means into the sump.

He asserts also that it's NOT coming back down the discharge pipe but
if he's so sure about the 50% number, I wonder. Could it be there's
no check valve in the discharge?

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 21, 3:44 pm, "EXT" wrote:
That is a serious problem, a disaster waiting to happen.

I would dig around the deck, if you can, to see if the pipe travels
anywhere
away from the deck.
Question - what would this show me? If the water is immediately
draining back thru the drain tiles, wouldn't that mean the problem is
occuring near the foundation, which is under the deck? Just trying to
understand your diagnosis of the issue.

It is simple really, I cannot imagine anyone stupid enough to intentionally
drain a sump pump back into the foundation weeping pipes so that the water
just runs in a circle. So there most likely is a pipe that drains away from
where it comes out the wall. This will drain to some location away from your
house but the outlet may be plugged. The pipe near the foundation may be
sheared off, split or detatched allowing the water to short circuit back to
the sump.

Or, if you don't want to spend the time, or cannot access the area,
install
a replacement pipe where you can open a space through the wall and across
the ground to a suitable location to discharge the water. This should
bypass
the old pipe since you cannot access it. Keep the slope steady, rigid
pipe
such as ABS or PVC, whatever is available for drains in your area is
easier
to install sloping than flexible piping.

Unfortunately it won't be that easy, because the area where the sump
is housed is completely surrounded by deck (it curves around the
house). I'm thinking that I will have to pry up boards, possibly
destroying them, to get to that area. That's probably the plan
anyway, but it would be nice to have a better idea of what might be
going on down there before I cause all of this destruction to get to
it.

Often repairs are not easy and require a lot of changes and tearing down to
just get to the problem. That is the way it always seems to work, so this
may be an opportunity to make any repairs or upgrades to your deck. If there
is a way to bypass the deck you may want to look into the possibility. At
least see which is the least work.

In general, can you explain to me what you are thinking is going on?
Saying that it is a disaster waiting to happen, but with no
explaination is causing me a lot of anxiety but not really much to
help me understand it. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the help, but
I just need a bit more info.

The disaster is the water is just running in circles, with possibly some
going elswhere, and the bulk returning through the foundation drainage. In a
major storm, which happens more often now than before, the pump will not be
able to accommodate the volume of water if most of it simple runs back into
the sump. The result will be a flood, maybe small, possibly major.

By the way, it certainly worries me (a lot of sleepless nights), but I
also know its been doing this for quite a while, and during some
pretty serious storms. For all I know, the issue could have been
going on for the entire 28 years since the home was built. As far as
I know - there is no sign of flooding.

I am certain this has not been happening for the past 28 years, something
has happened to the discharge pipe under the deck that needs fixing.
Possibly it started small and now is leaking much more water. Look into it.


Thanks,
Jeff

On Mar 22, 6:33 am, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:



In article . com, "cavedweller" wrote:

On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

That's not what's going on. Back up and re-read the original post: he said the
pump kicks on before the water ever rises up that high -- therefore, what's
coming back into the sump is the water he just pumped out.

I quoted it.

It tells me that the floats are set so that the pump comes on before
the sump is full.

I presume his "back thru" means into the sump.

He asserts also that it's NOT coming back down the discharge pipe but
if he's so sure about the 50% number, I wonder. Could it be there's
no check valve in the discharge?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You may have quoted it but obviously didn't understand it.

Per his words the drain tile line into the sump are above the highest
sump water level. He sees the backflow coming 'from the drain tile"
not the pump discharge line.

Harry K

On Mar 21, 12:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

My first assumption is that the drainage pipe is broken and maybe most
of the water is leaking back into the foundation. But how would it
make it so quickly from the pipe back into the drain tiles and into
the well? I'm talking maybe a second or so delay between the ejection
starting and the water flowing back in the well thru the drainage
pipes. It doesn't make sense to me, so I must be missing something.

I know everyone's first suggestion would be - check the drainage to
ensure the pipe is intact. I'd LOVE to, trust me. Problem is that
its under my deck, which is too low to be accesable. Peeking under
there, I can see the pipe come out of the house and to into a 5 or 6"
diameter pipe going vertically into the ground about 2 feet from the
house. My assumption is that it goes to a drain tile or some farther
place in the yard from there, but I have no way to confirm this.

So my questions are - what is likely causing the water to rush back in
so quickly thru the tiles, is that unusual / a concern, and how should
I go about fixing it if required?

Any input would be appreciated. This thing is making me super
nervous, though we've yet to have a flood in the year we've lived in
this 28 year-old house.

Jeff

Okay, others have said pretty much the same thing but here goes again.

The '5 or 6" verticle pipe is acting as a drywell apparently and being
only 2 ft away from the foundation is either directly in a perimeter
drain gravel bed or has made it's own channel feeding directly into
it. If you can get a camera down into it somehow you can see if maybe
it is broken/collapsed or whatever. If the pipe is intact to the
bottom and shows no connection to a pipe leading away from the house
the only solution I can see is to abandon what is there and reroute
the drain line. That should be possible without tearing up the
deck.

I really don't see much hope of being able to fix the problem using
the same installation even if you did dig it up - that discharge needs
to be a lot further away from the house.

Harry K

On Mar 22, 10:40 am, "Harry K" wrote:
On Mar 22, 6:33 am, "cavedweller" wrote:



On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article . com, "cavedweller" wrote:

On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

That's not what's going on. Back up and re-read the original post: he said the
pump kicks on before the water ever rises up that high -- therefore, what's
coming back into the sump is the water he just pumped out.

I quoted it.

It tells me that the floats are set so that the pump comes on before
the sump is full.

I presume his "back thru" means into the sump.

He asserts also that it's NOT coming back down the discharge pipe but
if he's so sure about the 50% number, I wonder. Could it be there's
no check valve in the discharge?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You may have quoted it but obviously didn't understand it.

I understood it well enough that I believe he could have his float set
so that the pump comes on too soon, and shuts of too early.


Per his words the drain tile line into the sump are above the highest
sump water level.

He sees the backflow coming 'from the drain tile" not the pump discharge line.


I know what he says. I'll suggest that your "backflow" might really
be continuing inflow. I'm also suggesting that he might possibly be
mistaken and that the surge after the pump stops is really coming from
the discharge line.

I have a perimeter drain situation where, at the wrong time of year,
the pump will cycle ever 30 seconds in my sump if I let it. I
therefore set the float so that the perimeter tile fills (sump level
mostly covering the outlet) and then the pump empties the tile and
shuts off as the sump level drops just below the tile inlet.

So I leave a few gallons in the bottom of the sump. Who cares?

In my case, I know what the pitch of the tile feed to the sump is and
how it relates to the level of the perimeter drains. I also know
where my pump discharge goes. These are two things that neither the
OP nor any of the responders knows for sure. That's why I suggested
he try resetting the float to see what happens.

Of course, unless he checks back in we'll all just have to continue to
speculate and theorize.

On Mar 22, 4:18 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .com, "cavedweller" wrote:



On Mar 22, 10:40 am, "Harry K" wrote:
On Mar 22, 6:33 am, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article . com,
"cavedweller" wrote:


Yes, I can see that you quoted it. I can also see that you didn't read, or
didn't understand, what you quoted.

OK, so what do you know that I don't? My assumptions (bad idea, I
know) are that this is a conventional concrete or plastic sump with
inlet(s) around its perimeter near the top and that the pump is either
a pedestal type with an adjustable float or perhaps a submersible
(without much adjustment on the float).

Water is pumped from the bottom of the sump and is discharged
somewhere. Per the OP, the depth of water in the sump (he called it a
well) never rises to the level of the inlets before the pump turns
on. With any significant amount of inflow, that would tell me that
the pump cycles a lot.


It should tell you something else, too.

And that would be? Seriously, unless you know the original poster and
have particular insights into his problem that he hasn't explained, I
don't know what you mean.

My experience is that rainfall has very little immediate influence on
the amount of water flowing into my basement sump from footing
drains. My own situation is worse in the spring when the snow is
melting and the ground is thawing and the flow from the footing drains
is pretty heavy for some weeks.

In article .com, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 22, 10:40 am, "Harry K" wrote:
On Mar 22, 6:33 am, "cavedweller" wrote:

On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article . com,
"cavedweller" wrote:

On Mar 21, 2:32 pm, wrote:
OK, I think something is wrong with the way my sump drains and I'm
looking for confirmation and ideas on how to fix it.

So my pump is mounted at the bottom of the well, with the float
triggering before the waterline gets up to the pipes from which the
drain tiles drain into the well. (all seems correct there so far).
My problem is that, as soon as the pump triggers and drains the well,
I see maybe 50% of that amount of water drain immediately back thru
the tiles (NOT back down the ejection pipe). This is not normal, is
it?

Well, it can be.

The drain tiles around the house hold a fair amount of water, while
the sump itself holds very little. When you pump the sump dry, there
might still be a lot of water in the tiles that finds its way
immediately into the sump.

That's not what's going on. Back up and re-read the original post: he
said the
pump kicks on before the water ever rises up that high -- therefore,
what's
coming back into the sump is the water he just pumped out.

I quoted it.

Yes, I can see that you quoted it. I can also see that you didn't read, or
didn't understand, what you quoted.

It tells me that the floats are set so that the pump comes on before
the sump is full.

It should tell you something else, too.

I presume his "back thru" means into the sump.

He asserts also that it's NOT coming back down the discharge pipe but
if he's so sure about the 50% number, I wonder. Could it be there's
no check valve in the discharge?- Hide quoted text -

You may have quoted it but obviously didn't understand it.

I understood it well enough that I believe he could have his float set
so that the pump comes on too soon, and shuts of too early.


Per his words the drain tile line into the sump are above the highest
sump water level.

He sees the backflow coming 'from the drain tile" not the pump discharge line.


I know what he says. I'll suggest that your "backflow" might really
be continuing inflow. I'm also suggesting that he might possibly be
mistaken and that the surge after the pump stops is really coming from
the discharge line.

If the water level in the sump is below the tiles, it's going to be
immediately obvious at a glance where the surge is coming from.

I have a perimeter drain situation where, at the wrong time of year,
the pump will cycle ever 30 seconds in my sump if I let it. I
therefore set the float so that the perimeter tile fills (sump level
mostly covering the outlet) and then the pump empties the tile and
shuts off as the sump level drops just below the tile inlet.

So I leave a few gallons in the bottom of the sump. Who cares?

In my case, I know what the pitch of the tile feed to the sump is and
how it relates to the level of the perimeter drains. I also know
where my pump discharge goes. These are two things that neither the
OP nor any of the responders knows for sure. That's why I suggested
he try resetting the float to see what happens.

Of course, unless he checks back in we'll all just have to continue to
speculate and theorize.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:

The disaster is the water is just running in circles, with possibly some
going elswhere, and the bulk returning through the foundation drainage. In a
major storm, which happens more often now than before, the pump will not be
able to accommodate the volume of water if most of it simple runs back into
the sump. The result will be a flood, maybe small, possibly major.

The disaster waiting to happen isn't just that -- it's also the fact that the
pump is running far more than it should, and may give out without warning,
leaving him with *no* pump, when even a modest rainfall could leave him with a
flooded basement. Hence my earlier advice to get a backup pump.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article . com, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 22, 4:18 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .com,
"cavedweller" wrote:



On Mar 22, 10:40 am, "Harry K" wrote:
On Mar 22, 6:33 am, "cavedweller" wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:29 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article . com,
"cavedweller" wrote:


Yes, I can see that you quoted it. I can also see that you didn't read, or
didn't understand, what you quoted.

OK, so what do you know that I don't? My assumptions (bad idea, I
know) are that this is a conventional concrete or plastic sump with
inlet(s) around its perimeter near the top and that the pump is either
a pedestal type with an adjustable float or perhaps a submersible
(without much adjustment on the float).

Yep, my assumptions too, although the type of pump and float are not really
relevant to the problem.

Water is pumped from the bottom of the sump and is discharged
somewhere. Per the OP, the depth of water in the sump (he called it a
well) never rises to the level of the inlets before the pump turns
on.

You're failing to understand the significance of this fact.

With any significant amount of inflow, that would tell me that
the pump cycles a lot.

I'm quite confident that the OP's pump cycles a lot, even *without* any
significant inflow -- because he's pumping the same water over and over and
over.


It should tell you something else, too.

And that would be? Seriously, unless you know the original poster and
have particular insights into his problem that he hasn't explained, I
don't know what you mean.

What I mean is this: since the water level in the sump never rises to the
level of the drainage tiles, it is _completely_impossible_ that there is any
significant amount of water stored in the tiles.

And *that* means that when he sees a sudden inrush of water into the sump pit
just after his pump shuts off, the water that's coming in is the same water
that it just pumped out.

His discharge pipe is probably broken, or a fitting came apart, just outside
the foundation.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Mar 22, 5:07 pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:

What I mean is this: since the water level in the sump never rises to the
level of the drainage tiles, it is _completely_impossible_ that there is any
significant amount of water stored in the tiles.

And *that* means that when he sees a sudden inrush of water into the sump pit
just after his pump shuts off, the water that's coming in is the same water
that it just pumped out.

His discharge pipe is probably broken, or a fitting came apart, just outside
the foundation.

Well, I sure hope the OP comes back with a full report after all
this. 8-)