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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8 sheets
of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends are
butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9 inside
90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two approximately
120-degree inside corners.

I'm going to be looking for someone put on the outside corner metals &
tape/mud/sand. For the typical contractor, is this a job that can be
completed in a weekend? I know it will depend on the crew size but
I'm not sure what a crew of any size can get done in a day.

Thanks,
Kevin

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?


" wrote in message
ups.com...
I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8 sheets
of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends are
butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9 inside
90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two approximately
120-degree inside corners.

I'm going to be looking for someone put on the outside corner metals &
tape/mud/sand. For the typical contractor, is this a job that can be
completed in a weekend? I know it will depend on the crew size but
I'm not sure what a crew of any size can get done in a day.

Thanks,
Kevin


I couldn't tell you how many man-hours is needed to do this job, but it is
not likely it can be finished in two days because of the drying time.
Usually the first coat of joint compound dries faster than the next two
coats. At a minimum I think 3 days would be required because of that.

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?


"Drywall finishers work on weekends in OP's area?"

If they want the job they do. :-)





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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

Typical quality requires 3 coats. 12 hours dry time each coat.
Setting compound can be used on the first coat. Most finishers I
know would have zero interest in a weekend job.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




" wrote in message
ups.com...

"Drywall finishers work on weekends in OP's area?"

If they want the job they do. :-)





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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

DanG wrote:
Typical quality requires 3 coats. 12 hours dry time each coat.
Setting compound can be used on the first coat. Most finishers I
know would have zero interest in a weekend job.


Area differences I suppose. There are plenty of hungry guys around
here that work weekends. I've also used union guys. A few buddies
would show up bright and early each weekend morning, knock the living
crap out of the taping and spackling and knock off around 1 PM. They
were "moonlighting" on the weekends and that was their only free time.

R

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?


"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
| DanG wrote:
| Typical quality requires 3 coats. 12 hours dry time each coat.
| Setting compound can be used on the first coat. Most finishers I
| know would have zero interest in a weekend job.
|
| Area differences I suppose. There are plenty of hungry guys around
| here that work weekends. I've also used union guys. A few buddies
| would show up bright and early each weekend morning, knock the living
| crap out of the taping and spackling and knock off around 1 PM. They
| were "moonlighting" on the weekends and that was their only free time.
|
| R
|

union guys moon lighting
isn't that against union policy?
where are the dues?


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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?


" wrote in message
ups.com...
|I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8 sheets
| of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends are
| butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9 inside
| 90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two approximately
| 120-degree inside corners.


drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
green board (moisture resistant) is better.

blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could have
been completed in a few hours.



|
| I'm going to be looking for someone put on the outside corner metals &
| tape/mud/sand. For the typical contractor, is this a job that can be
| completed in a weekend? I know it will depend on the crew size but
| I'm not sure what a crew of any size can get done in a day.
|
| Thanks,
| Kevin


not enough drying time to finish in 1 weekend unless they work all
night.
|


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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

Got my first quote today. $750 to tape/mud/sand all the joints and
corners. The installer said it would take about 3 days to complete.
One full day to get the first coat on everything and get the corners.
Two more days at about 2-3 hours per day to put the rest of the coats
on and finish it. Sounds reasonable to me.

I guess I'll be comparing to my other quotes when I get them in about
a week. But, how does the initial $750 sound for about 1150 square
feet? High, low, or average?

Thanks,
Kevin



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On Mar 22, 10:18 am, " wrote:
Got my first quote today. $750 to tape/mud/sand all the joints and
corners. The installer said it would take about 3 days to complete.
One full day to get the first coat on everything and get the corners.
Two more days at about 2-3 hours per day to put the rest of the coats
on and finish it. Sounds reasonable to me.

I guess I'll be comparing to my other quotes when I get them in about
a week. But, how does the initial $750 sound for about 1150 square
feet? High, low, or average?

Thanks,
Kevin


Don't ask questions like that unless you're of the belief that all
contractor's are of equal quality, charge the same amount, estimate
the same way and there are no differences in labor and material costs
anywhere in the world. In order, the correct answers a they're
not, they don't, they may or may not depending on the trade (probably
not), there are huge differences and you never mentioned where you
were.

I personally believe it is pointless to ask what prices "should be" on
Usenet. If the single best estimator/contractor in the world applies
all of their mighty powers and provides you with the PERFECT number
etched in stone, it might as well be written in invisible ink on
toilet paper for the amount of weight that will carry with the
contractors in your area. Unless someone sees the job and gives you a
firm number, and, most importantly, is prepared to do the work in
agreement with your schedule, the number is 100% useless.

If you need to satisfy your curiosity, by all means get an additional
estimate or two.

R

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

On Mar 21, 5:41 am, "3G" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

oups.com...| DanG wrote:

| Typical quality requires 3 coats. 12 hours dry time each coat.
| Setting compound can be used on the first coat. Most finishers I
| know would have zero interest in a weekend job.
|
| Area differences I suppose. There are plenty of hungry guys around
| here that work weekends. I've also used union guys. A few buddies
| would show up bright and early each weekend morning, knock the living
| crap out of the taping and spackling and knock off around 1 PM. They
| were "moonlighting" on the weekends and that was their only free time.
|

union guys moon lighting
isn't that against union policy?
where are the dues?


Where did you get that idea? The union is not interested in
preventing their guys from working to earn money. If the guy is
sitting on a bench they still have a family and expenses. If you call
up the union hall or make a visit, they'll help you out.

R

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On Mar 21, 5:48 am, "3G" wrote:
" wrote in message

|I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8 sheets
| of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends are
| butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9 inside
| 90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two approximately
| 120-degree inside corners.

drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
green board (moisture resistant) is better.


Mold will grow just fine on either one, so I don't think you're
referring to that. If the basement has such significant moisture
problems that greenboard might be indicated, it would be far
preferable to deal with the moisture problem before finishing the
basement.

blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could have
been completed in a few hours.


1400 SF of skimcoat plaster in a few hours? Not even close unless you
have a small army on hand. If it were that fast, no one would use
drywall, tape and spackle.

1400 SF of skimcoat plaster would be much slower than 3 or 4 hundred
linear feet of tapered edge taping and spackling, and a bit of bead
work. If the OP's contractor isn't resistant to using setting type
compound they could skip all of the drying time.

R

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?


"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...
| On Mar 21, 5:48 am, "3G" wrote:
| " wrote in message
|
| |I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8
sheets
| | of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends
are
| | butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9
inside
| | 90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two
approximately
| | 120-degree inside corners.
|
| drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
| green board (moisture resistant) is better.
|
| Mold will grow just fine on either one, so I don't think you're
| referring to that.

nope
the moisture will peel the paint off regular drywall
you never use regular drywall in a basement......not here anyway.

If the basement has such significant moisture
| problems that greenboard might be indicated,

now you see the light at the end of the tunnel.


it would be far
| preferable to deal with the moisture problem before finishing the
| basement.


concrete emitts moisture for years and years

|
| blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could
have
| been completed in a few hours.
|
| 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster in a few hours? Not even close unless you
| have a small army on hand.


are you kiddin me
1400 sf
we would be home by 3pm

3 hours to hang and 5 hours to plaster
and only 3 guys
damn we must be good.


If it were that fast, no one would use,
| drywall, tape and spackle.

only the cheap *******s do use drywall/tape/compound
and home owners who don't know any better.

|
| 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster would be much slower than 3 or 4 hundred
| linear feet of tapered edge taping and spackling, and a bit of bead
| work. If the OP's contractor isn't resistant to using setting type
| compound they could skip all of the drying time.
|
| R
whats the R for................retard
|


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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

3G wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...
| On Mar 21, 5:48 am, "3G" wrote:
| " wrote in message
|
| |I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8
sheets
| | of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered ends
are
| | butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9
inside
| | 90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two
approximately
| | 120-degree inside corners.
|
| drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
| green board (moisture resistant) is better.
|
| Mold will grow just fine on either one, so I don't think you're
| referring to that.

nope
the moisture will peel the paint off regular drywall
you never use regular drywall in a basement......not here anyway.

If the basement has such significant moisture
| problems that greenboard might be indicated,

now you see the light at the end of the tunnel.


it would be far
| preferable to deal with the moisture problem before finishing the
| basement.


concrete emitts moisture for years and years


Let's see, I'm advising to take care of the moisture problem before
finishing the basement and not rely on greenboard for protection, you
argue against taking care of the moisture problem because concrete
gives off moisture for years and years.

Beside being an excellent example of frontier gibberish, you have no
idea what you are talking about. Concrete does not release moisture
for years. Moisture _may_ pass through the concrete, but there is
only a limited amount of moisture in concrete mix.

| blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could
have
| been completed in a few hours.
|
| 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster in a few hours? Not even close unless you
| have a small army on hand.


are you kiddin me
1400 sf
we would be home by 3pm

3 hours to hang and 5 hours to plaster
and only 3 guys
damn we must be good.


I really must apologize. I am standing in the presence of greatness.
Less than a week ago you were telling us about the plasterer you
_hired_ using _nails_ to tack up board on metal stud, and now you've
graduated into Super Plasterer. I stand in awe of your learning
ability.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...6c6b4bc41ce 7

I can hardly wait until next week's installment where you explain your
technique for reattaching severed limbs. I guess you watch this show
a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM

If it were that fast, no one would use,
| drywall, tape and spackle.

only the cheap *******s do use drywall/tape/compound
and home owners who don't know any better.


Feel better?

| 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster would be much slower than 3 or 4 hundred
| linear feet of tapered edge taping and spackling, and a bit of bead
| work. If the OP's contractor isn't resistant to using setting type
| compound they could skip all of the drying time.
|
| R
whats the R for................retard
|


No, it stands for Rico, just like it says above. Thanks for asking.

And learn to quote correctly, ya maroon.

R



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Default How Long to Talk / Type / Argue with a moron?


"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
| 3G wrote:
| "RicodJour" wrote in message
| ps.com...
| | On Mar 21, 5:48 am, "3G" wrote:
| | " wrote in message
| |
| | |I finished about 1400 sq. ft. of my basement with about 46 4x8
| sheets
| | | of drywall. All the sheets are standing up so the tapered
ends
| are
| | | butted together. Each seam is about 7 feet long. There are 9
| inside
| | | 90-degree corners, 5 outside 90-degree corners and two
| approximately
| | | 120-degree inside corners.
| |
| | drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
| | green board (moisture resistant) is better.
| |
| | Mold will grow just fine on either one, so I don't think you're
| | referring to that.
|
| nope
| the moisture will peel the paint off regular drywall
| you never use regular drywall in a basement......not here anyway.
|
| If the basement has such significant moisture
| | problems that greenboard might be indicated,
|
| now you see the light at the end of the tunnel.
|
|
| it would be far
| | preferable to deal with the moisture problem before finishing the
| | basement.
|
|
| concrete emitts moisture for years and years
|
| Let's see, I'm advising to take care of the moisture problem before
| finishing the basement and not rely on greenboard for protection, you
| argue against taking care of the moisture problem because concrete
| gives off moisture for years and years.


a dehumidifier..........no brainer!


|
| Beside being an excellent example of frontier gibberish, you have no
| idea what you are talking about.

correction
you have no idea what I am talking about
I will type slower next time..............sorry


Concrete does not release moisture
| for years.

actually it does release moisture for years
it takes aprox. 100 years for concrete to fully cure.
read up on it





Moisture _may_ pass through the concrete, but there is
| only a limited amount of moisture in concrete mix.
|
| | blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could
| have
| | been completed in a few hours.
| |
| | 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster in a few hours? Not even close unless
you
| | have a small army on hand.
|
|
| are you kiddin me
| 1400 sf
| we would be home by 3pm
|
| 3 hours to hang and 5 hours to plaster
| and only 3 guys
| damn we must be good.
|
| I really must apologize. I am standing in the presence of greatness.

now you uderstand
finally


| Less than a week ago you were telling us about the plasterer you
| _hired_ using _nails_ to tack up board on metal stud,


that is correct
I hired an incompetant plasterer to do a job for me and they made a mess
everywhere.
I can't do every job
sometimes I sub the work out.


and now you've
| graduated into Super Plasterer.

graduated years ago.............................many.............. ..many
years ago.


I stand in awe of your learning
| ability.

thats what the shop teacher told me many years ago.


|
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...6c6b4bc41ce 7
|
| I can hardly wait until next week's installment where you explain your
| technique for reattaching severed limbs.


I opted to sub that job out
I do have limits you know.


I guess you watch this show
| a lot:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM


I never watch tv.................too busy with work.


|
| If it were that fast, no one would use,
| | drywall, tape and spackle.
|
| only the cheap *******s do use drywall/tape/compound
| and home owners who don't know any better.
|
| Feel better?

a little
how bout you?


|
| | 1400 SF of skimcoat plaster would be much slower than 3 or 4
hundred
| | linear feet of tapered edge taping and spackling, and a bit of
bead
| | work. If the OP's contractor isn't resistant to using setting
type
| | compound they could skip all of the drying time.
| |
| | R
| whats the R for................retard
| |
|
| yes, it stands for Retardo, just like it says on my lunch box. Thanks
for asking.
|
| And learn to quote correctly, ya maroon.

I just love "maroons" with coffee.


what the hell do you know Retardo
you think "spackle" is used for taping drywall.
oh boy, oh boy, oh boy




|
| R
|


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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

Listen, Roger, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
Are ya "winning"?

You're giving some sketchy advice, based on your prejudices, which are
in turn based on faulty information. Do me a favor, show this thread
to your father - he's still working with you, right? - and see if
you're making him proud.

Concrete gets harder and stronger as the decades pass and the curing
does continue, but concrete does not have an unlimited amount of
moisture to give off. Cement undergoes a chemical reaction, binds the
water it needs, and releases the excess. The excess water does not
stick around for 100 years slowly releasing it. There is not enough
moisture released after the first couple or three months to
appreciably affect a basement's moisture level. If there is a
basement moisture problem, the water is coming from a source other
than the concrete foundation walls. If there is a basement moisture
problem, you deal with it before finishing off the basement.
Suggesting a dehumidifier is similar suggesting using an IV to add
blood to compensate for the bleeding. Might work in the short term,
bad idea in the long term.

The fact that you hired a plasterer that used nails at all on a metal
stud job, and wrote about it as an acceptable method, calls your
knowledge into question, on both technical and hiring grounds.

My vernacular in referring to taping and spackling, is partially a
regional thing - that's how it was referred to when I started in
construction, and partially an idiomatic thing - like bandaid. I'm
sure while you're standing there bleeding on the floor, you yell out,
"Someone get me a self-adhesive bandage!"

In any event, this thread is about the OP's needs. Your comment that
only cheap homeowners use drywall is insulting to him and off-base for
the reasons I've already mentioned. Your suggestion to go with
plaster veneer would cost more - depending on the area, maybe 30 to 50
percent more - and it can't be put on the existing drywall anyway.
You answered the question, "Do I really need to put premium gas in my
Honda?" with "Honda's suck. You should sell it and get a Lexus."
Excellent advice. I'm sure the OP appreciates it.

BTW, you may want to correct your web site about your design
capabilities - it's misleading.
"Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
state - must sign off on the plans. You know that - say that. You
shouldn't offer things you can't provide.

Here's an example of one site's wording:
"Do some building departments require engineer {or architect} sealed
building plans to obtain a building permit? Yes. This means that a
licensed engineer {or architect} for your state has to review {insert
company name here}'s building plans to assure that they comply with
your state's building requirements. Once the engineer {or architect}
reviews the plans and no changes are needed, he or she applies his
engineering {or architect's} stamp and his signature to the plans.
This means he takes responsibility for the design not the building
department. If there are needed changes, the engineer {or architect}
usually faxes {insert company name here} notes and sketches that we
need to incorporate or change in the plans."

See? That's not misleading at all.

R

PS I took the liberty of crossposting this to a couple of related
newsgroups. For those other groups, the full thread can be found
he http://tinyurl.com/yumsg3

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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

On Mar 21, 4:48 am, "3G" wrote:
"
drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
green board (moisture resistant) is better.

blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could have
been completed in a few hours.


moisture resistant drywall in a basement because concrete gives off
moisture? What planet are you from? I'm with Rico all the way!

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RicodJour wrote:
Listen, Roger, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
Are ya "winning"?

You're giving some sketchy advice, based on your prejudices, which are
in turn based on faulty information. Do me a favor, show this thread
to your father - he's still working with you, right? - and see if
you're making him proud.

Concrete gets harder and stronger as the decades pass and the curing
does continue, but concrete does not have an unlimited amount of
moisture to give off. Cement undergoes a chemical reaction, binds the
water it needs, and releases the excess. The excess water does not
stick around for 100 years slowly releasing it. There is not enough
moisture released after the first couple or three months to
appreciably affect a basement's moisture level. If there is a
basement moisture problem, the water is coming from a source other
than the concrete foundation walls. If there is a basement moisture
problem, you deal with it before finishing off the basement.
Suggesting a dehumidifier is similar suggesting using an IV to add
blood to compensate for the bleeding. Might work in the short term,
bad idea in the long term.

The fact that you hired a plasterer that used nails at all on a metal
stud job, and wrote about it as an acceptable method, calls your
knowledge into question, on both technical and hiring grounds.

My vernacular in referring to taping and spackling, is partially a
regional thing - that's how it was referred to when I started in
construction, and partially an idiomatic thing - like bandaid. I'm
sure while you're standing there bleeding on the floor, you yell out,
"Someone get me a self-adhesive bandage!"

In any event, this thread is about the OP's needs. Your comment that
only cheap homeowners use drywall is insulting to him and off-base for
the reasons I've already mentioned. Your suggestion to go with
plaster veneer would cost more - depending on the area, maybe 30 to 50
percent more - and it can't be put on the existing drywall anyway.
You answered the question, "Do I really need to put premium gas in my
Honda?" with "Honda's suck. You should sell it and get a Lexus."
Excellent advice. I'm sure the OP appreciates it.

BTW, you may want to correct your web site about your design
capabilities - it's misleading.
"Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
state - must sign off on the plans. You know that - say that. You
shouldn't offer things you can't provide.

Here's an example of one site's wording:
"Do some building departments require engineer {or architect} sealed
building plans to obtain a building permit? Yes. This means that a
licensed engineer {or architect} for your state has to review {insert
company name here}'s building plans to assure that they comply with
your state's building requirements. Once the engineer {or architect}
reviews the plans and no changes are needed, he or she applies his
engineering {or architect's} stamp and his signature to the plans.
This means he takes responsibility for the design not the building
department. If there are needed changes, the engineer {or architect}
usually faxes {insert company name here} notes and sketches that we
need to incorporate or change in the plans."

See? That's not misleading at all.


Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...

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"3D Peruna" wrote in message
...
RicodJour wrote:
Listen, Roger, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
Are ya "winning"?

You're giving some sketchy advice, based on your prejudices, which are
in turn based on faulty information. Do me a favor, show this thread
to your father - he's still working with you, right? - and see if
you're making him proud.

Concrete gets harder and stronger as the decades pass and the curing
does continue, but concrete does not have an unlimited amount of
moisture to give off. Cement undergoes a chemical reaction, binds the
water it needs, and releases the excess. The excess water does not
stick around for 100 years slowly releasing it. There is not enough
moisture released after the first couple or three months to
appreciably affect a basement's moisture level. If there is a
basement moisture problem, the water is coming from a source other
than the concrete foundation walls. If there is a basement moisture
problem, you deal with it before finishing off the basement.
Suggesting a dehumidifier is similar suggesting using an IV to add
blood to compensate for the bleeding. Might work in the short term,
bad idea in the long term.

The fact that you hired a plasterer that used nails at all on a metal
stud job, and wrote about it as an acceptable method, calls your
knowledge into question, on both technical and hiring grounds.

My vernacular in referring to taping and spackling, is partially a
regional thing - that's how it was referred to when I started in
construction, and partially an idiomatic thing - like bandaid. I'm
sure while you're standing there bleeding on the floor, you yell out,
"Someone get me a self-adhesive bandage!"

In any event, this thread is about the OP's needs. Your comment that
only cheap homeowners use drywall is insulting to him and off-base for
the reasons I've already mentioned. Your suggestion to go with
plaster veneer would cost more - depending on the area, maybe 30 to 50
percent more - and it can't be put on the existing drywall anyway.
You answered the question, "Do I really need to put premium gas in my
Honda?" with "Honda's suck. You should sell it and get a Lexus."
Excellent advice. I'm sure the OP appreciates it.

BTW, you may want to correct your web site about your design
capabilities - it's misleading.
"Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
state - must sign off on the plans. You know that - say that. You
shouldn't offer things you can't provide.

Here's an example of one site's wording:
"Do some building departments require engineer {or architect} sealed
building plans to obtain a building permit? Yes. This means that a
licensed engineer {or architect} for your state has to review {insert
company name here}'s building plans to assure that they comply with
your state's building requirements. Once the engineer {or architect}
reviews the plans and no changes are needed, he or she applies his
engineering {or architect's} stamp and his signature to the plans.
This means he takes responsibility for the design not the building
department. If there are needed changes, the engineer {or architect}
usually faxes {insert company name here} notes and sketches that we
need to incorporate or change in the plans."

See? That's not misleading at all.


Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Completely illegal here too. (Ontario)
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca




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"Michael Bulatovich" wrote in message
...

"3D Peruna" wrote in message
...
RicodJour wrote:


"Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
state - must sign off on the plans. You know that - say that. You
shouldn't offer things you can't provide.


[snip]

Here's an example of one site's wording:


[snip]

See? That's not misleading at all.


Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Completely illegal here too. (Ontario)


Sigh!!!!!


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"3D Peruna" wrote
Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Its all a matter of wording.
Just cause YOU call it *reviewing* doesn't make it so.
I know plenty of architects and engineers that have boilerplate sheets made
up with stuff like standard details of headers, footing steel, sill
sections, etc. that simply date and stamp them and sell them to the
homeowner or others for a few hundred bux. The homeowner or builder includes
them with the rest of the permit package and everyone's happy. When the code
changed in 1992 requiring architects and/or engineers to stamp ALL plans
submitted for permit this created a finacial boon for all of them.
Architects and engineers design less than 5% of all the homes in SW FL but
they make money off of ALL of them, by law.


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Don,

I think we had this conversation a couple of years ago; if you are not a"
licensed design professional", i.e. a P.E. or R.A., then you're a draftsman
or cad operator; nothing more as far as the laws of most states are
concerned. I think the day of the unlicensed "designer" is nearing an end,
if it hasn't already ended.

Tom
"Don" wrote in message
...
"3D Peruna" wrote
Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Its all a matter of wording.
Just cause YOU call it *reviewing* doesn't make it so.
I know plenty of architects and engineers that have boilerplate sheets
made up with stuff like standard details of headers, footing steel, sill
sections, etc. that simply date and stamp them and sell them to the
homeowner or others for a few hundred bux. The homeowner or builder
includes them with the rest of the permit package and everyone's happy.
When the code changed in 1992 requiring architects and/or engineers to
stamp ALL plans submitted for permit this created a finacial boon for all
of them. Architects and engineers design less than 5% of all the homes in
SW FL but they make money off of ALL of them, by law.



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In the city and county I lived in (Cape Coral, Lee County) there was no
business classification for *designer*.
The closest classification was Interior Designer.
Nor is there a classification for CAD anything.
Things may be different now as its been 2 years or more since I checked into
it.
Calling yourself a *desgner* in public in FL can get you nailed big time.


"Tom Cular" wrote in message
news:XvgNh.2040$yo3.964@trnddc04...
Don,

I think we had this conversation a couple of years ago; if you are not a"
licensed design professional", i.e. a P.E. or R.A., then you're a
draftsman or cad operator; nothing more as far as the laws of most states
are concerned. I think the day of the unlicensed "designer" is nearing an
end, if it hasn't already ended.

Tom
"Don" wrote in message
...
"3D Peruna" wrote
Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Its all a matter of wording.
Just cause YOU call it *reviewing* doesn't make it so.
I know plenty of architects and engineers that have boilerplate sheets
made up with stuff like standard details of headers, footing steel, sill
sections, etc. that simply date and stamp them and sell them to the
homeowner or others for a few hundred bux. The homeowner or builder
includes them with the rest of the permit package and everyone's happy.
When the code changed in 1992 requiring architects and/or engineers to
stamp ALL plans submitted for permit this created a finacial boon for all
of them. Architects and engineers design less than 5% of all the homes in
SW FL but they make money off of ALL of them, by law.





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"marson" wrote in message
ups.com...
| On Mar 21, 4:48 am, "3G" wrote:
| "
| drywall (not moisture resistant) in the basement?
| green board (moisture resistant) is better.
|
| blueboard with plaster would have been the best choice and could
have
| been completed in a few hours.
|
|
| moisture resistant drywall in a basement because concrete gives off
| moisture? What planet are you from?

I'm with Rico all the way!

of course you are, holding hands, skipping and swinging your arms like
little kids.
|




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"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Listen, Retardo, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
| Are ya "whining"?
|
| You're giving some sketchy advice, based on your prejudices, which are
| in turn based on faulty information.


| You answered the question, "Do I really need to put premium gas in my
| Honda?" with "Honda's suck. You should sell it and get a Lexus."
| Excellent advice. I'm sure the OP appreciates it.


what the.......who the.............yahhhhh right.


|
| BTW, you may want to correct your web site about your design
| capabilities - it's misleading.

like every other advertisement in the world.



| "Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
| In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
| state - must sign off on the plans.

you are incorrect.........again
haven't needed an architect or engineer stamp or license for years.
and YES I design additions, kitchens, bathrooms, whole houses,etc.
they DO pass town halls aproval and do every week.

You know that - say that. You
| shouldn't offer things you can't provide.

I can provide far more experiences than you ever will.
and I do sell plans to other states around the USA
everywhere else...............I don't care.
BTW
the plans page you were on has made over $35,000 since 2001
just the 1 page......................................
wow, I guess it is misleading!

thanks for the pep talk
I'm ready again..........lets go.

snipped your stupid tinyurl

I didn't realize that you were artie boy disguised Retardo........he he
he


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"3D Peruna" wrote in message
...
| RicodJour wrote:
| snipped the story book romance



| Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
| reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the
states
| I'm registered in...
|

then move
you live in a corrupted state


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"Michael Bulatovich" wrote in message
...
|
| "3D Peruna" wrote in message
| ...
| RicodJour wrote:
| snipped

|
| Completely illegal here too. (Ontario)

wow............that hurts
with all the legal porn in that damn country
unstamped plans are illegal
your countries moral standards are way off base.
not to mention the largest terrorists groups in North America.
The only great thing that comes from canada is their "ginger ale".
oh wait.......thats from the USA.
we just make canada look good as usual.

| --
|
|
| MichaelB
| www.michaelbulatovich.ca
|
|


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"Don" wrote in message
...
| In the city and county I lived in (Cape Coral, Lee County) there was
no
| business classification for *designer*.
| The closest classification was Interior Designer.
| Nor is there a classification for CAD anything.
| Things may be different now as its been 2 years or more since I
checked into
| it.
| Calling yourself a *desgner* in public in FL can get you nailed big
time.

thats because designers in FL make pills.
hence the term "designer drugs"

|
|
| "Tom Cular" wrote in message
| news:XvgNh.2040$yo3.964@trnddc04...
| Don,
|
| I think we had this conversation a couple of years ago; if you are
not a"
| licensed design professional", i.e. a P.E. or R.A., then you're a
| draftsman or cad operator; nothing more as far as the laws of most
states
| are concerned. I think the day of the unlicensed "designer" is
nearing an
| end, if it hasn't already ended.
|
| Tom
| "Don" wrote in message
| ...
| "3D Peruna" wrote
| Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or
the
| reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the
states
| I'm registered in...
|
| Its all a matter of wording.
| Just cause YOU call it *reviewing* doesn't make it so.
| I know plenty of architects and engineers that have boilerplate
sheets
| made up with stuff like standard details of headers, footing steel,
sill
| sections, etc. that simply date and stamp them and sell them to the
| homeowner or others for a few hundred bux. The homeowner or builder
| includes them with the rest of the permit package and everyone's
happy.
| When the code changed in 1992 requiring architects and/or engineers
to
| stamp ALL plans submitted for permit this created a finacial boon
for all
| of them. Architects and engineers design less than 5% of all the
homes in
| SW FL but they make money off of ALL of them, by law.
|
|
|
|
|


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How do your comments have anything to do with the original topic.
Take your rants elsewhere.



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3G wrote:
"3D Peruna" wrote in message
...
| RicodJour wrote:
| snipped the story book romance



| Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
| reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the
states
| I'm registered in...
|

then move
you live in a corrupted state


To a different corrupted state...

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On Mar 24, 11:44 am, 3D Peruna wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
Listen, Roger, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing here?
Are ya "winning"?


You're giving some sketchy advice, based on your prejudices, which are
in turn based on faulty information. Do me a favor, show this thread
to your father - he's still working with you, right? - and see if
you're making him proud.


Concrete gets harder and stronger as the decades pass and the curing
does continue, but concrete does not have an unlimited amount of
moisture to give off. Cement undergoes a chemical reaction, binds the
water it needs, and releases the excess. The excess water does not
stick around for 100 years slowly releasing it. There is not enough
moisture released after the first couple or three months to
appreciably affect a basement's moisture level. If there is a
basement moisture problem, the water is coming from a source other
than the concrete foundation walls. If there is a basement moisture
problem, you deal with it before finishing off the basement.
Suggesting a dehumidifier is similar suggesting using an IV to add
blood to compensate for the bleeding. Might work in the short term,
bad idea in the long term.


The fact that you hired a plasterer that used nails at all on a metal
stud job, and wrote about it as an acceptable method, calls your
knowledge into question, on both technical and hiring grounds.


My vernacular in referring to taping and spackling, is partially a
regional thing - that's how it was referred to when I started in
construction, and partially an idiomatic thing - like bandaid. I'm
sure while you're standing there bleeding on the floor, you yell out,
"Someone get me a self-adhesive bandage!"


In any event, this thread is about the OP's needs. Your comment that
only cheap homeowners use drywall is insulting to him and off-base for
the reasons I've already mentioned. Your suggestion to go with
plaster veneer would cost more - depending on the area, maybe 30 to 50
percent more - and it can't be put on the existing drywall anyway.
You answered the question, "Do I really need to put premium gas in my
Honda?" with "Honda's suck. You should sell it and get a Lexus."
Excellent advice. I'm sure the OP appreciates it.


BTW, you may want to correct your web site about your design
capabilities - it's misleading.
"Plans pass town hall approval for permit in most states"
In most states a licensed architect or engineer - licensed in that
state - must sign off on the plans. You know that - say that. You
shouldn't offer things you can't provide.


Here's an example of one site's wording:
"Do some building departments require engineer {or architect} sealed
building plans to obtain a building permit? Yes. This means that a
licensed engineer {or architect} for your state has to review {insert
company name here}'s building plans to assure that they comply with
your state's building requirements. Once the engineer {or architect}
reviews the plans and no changes are needed, he or she applies his
engineering {or architect's} stamp and his signature to the plans.
This means he takes responsibility for the design not the building
department. If there are needed changes, the engineer {or architect}
usually faxes {insert company name here} notes and sketches that we
need to incorporate or change in the plans."


See? That's not misleading at all.


Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Really? I thought a arch/eng could stamp plans under 2 circumstances:
either the plans were designed under the arch/eng's supervision or as
long as the arch/eng reviewed the plans to ensure that they met code,
were structurally sufficient, etc. Granted, that might take nearly as
long as the design but I thought it was okay as long as an actual
review was made (i.e. they just don't stamp them without checking
code). I mean, it is possible/likely that you find a set of plans on
the internet for $500 and pay $5000 to have them reviewed. But it
would be legal cause the stamper reviewed EVERYTHING and therefore
could ensure code complaince.


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"Pat" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 24, 11:44 am, 3D Peruna wrote:
RicodJour wrote: Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan
Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Really? I thought a arch/eng could stamp plans under 2 circumstances:
either the plans were designed under the arch/eng's supervision or as
long as the arch/eng reviewed the plans to ensure that they met code,
were structurally sufficient, etc. Granted, that might take nearly as
long as the design but I thought it was okay as long as an actual
review was made (i.e. they just don't stamp them without checking
code). I mean, it is possible/likely that you find a set of plans on
the internet for $500 and pay $5000 to have them reviewed. But it
would be legal cause the stamper reviewed EVERYTHING and therefore
could ensure code complaince.


Only the first 'circumstance' is legal in Ontario. Review for code
compliance is not the only type of responsibility that the stamp signifies.
It is also for "responsible control" of the design. There are all kinds of
aspects of a design which are not necessarily EXPLICITLY cited in drawings
but which can make or break a project. The designer is responsible for them,
but someone reviewing for code compliance may not appreciate them because
the documents do not describe them. By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.

(There is a new condition here after recent legislation that permits me to
stamp drawings for code compliance if another ***architect*** takes
responsibility for the rest. I can't stamp the drawings of non-architects at
all, although I'm asked to again and again because I'm a 'little guy' who
presumably would throw away 26 years of work for a G-note.)
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca


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Michael Bulatovich wrote:

By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.


You meant to say the law, not your association, right?
The desires of your association and the letter of the law are not
necessarily the same.
Or are they?

R

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"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
Michael Bulatovich wrote:

By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me
to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.


You meant to say the law, not your association, right?
The desires of your association and the letter of the law are not
necessarily the same.
Or are they?


Yes they are. It's the governing body. If I don't comply, I'm out with Don,
only poorer and with less hair.




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Michael Bulatovich wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
Michael Bulatovich wrote:

By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me
to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.


You meant to say the law, not your association, right?
The desires of your association and the letter of the law are not
necessarily the same.
Or are they?


Yes they are. It's the governing body. If I don't comply, I'm out with Don,
only poorer and with less hair.


Yetis have less hair.

When you mentioned association, I thought you were talking about the
cocktails and bow ties association of architects.

R

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On Mar 26, 7:25 am, "Michael Bulatovich" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Mar 24, 11:44 am, 3D Peruna wrote:
RicodJour wrote: Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan
Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Really? I thought a arch/eng could stamp plans under 2 circumstances:
either the plans were designed under the arch/eng's supervision or as
long as the arch/eng reviewed the plans to ensure that they met code,
were structurally sufficient, etc. Granted, that might take nearly as
long as the design but I thought it was okay as long as an actual
review was made (i.e. they just don't stamp them without checking
code). I mean, it is possible/likely that you find a set of plans on
the internet for $500 and pay $5000 to have them reviewed. But it
would be legal cause the stamper reviewed EVERYTHING and therefore
could ensure code complaince.


Only the first 'circumstance' is legal in Ontario. Review for code
compliance is not the only type of responsibility that the stamp signifies.
It is also for "responsible control" of the design. There are all kinds of
aspects of a design which are not necessarily EXPLICITLY cited in drawings
but which can make or break a project. The designer is responsible for them,
but someone reviewing for code compliance may not appreciate them because
the documents do not describe them. By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.

(There is a new condition here after recent legislation that permits me to
stamp drawings for code compliance if another ***architect*** takes
responsibility for the rest. I can't stamp the drawings of non-architects at
all, although I'm asked to again and again because I'm a 'little guy' who
presumably would throw away 26 years of work for a G-note.)
--

MichaelBwww.michaelbulatovich.ca


I deal with funding all day and therefore whenever I see a regulation
I like to push and probe it a little and see what it really
encompasses. So let me pose a hypothetical. I am not trying to be a
PITA, I'm just curious about that reg because I believe it is an
unobtainable prohibition.

Let's say you are putting an addition on a older building -- all
concrete, steel, asbestos, etc. etc. You have the As Builts but the
original architect is dead and buried. But he did a good job and gave
you great drawings with incredible details.

So you figure you want to punch a few holes through the building,
bring in some mechanicals and a couple of doorways. So you need to be
concerned with the structural elements of the exisiting building -- is
it structurally sound, etc. etc. Plus you'll be doing some rehab over
there so you need to bring portions of that building up to code -- say
new interior walls, new HVAC, new electrical, ADA, and maybe a new
elevator.

Now there's now way your new work is done "stand along" because you're
tying in to an existing building. You need to show certain elements
of that building. So what you are saying is that the law says you
cannot rely at all on the old drawings and then confirm the details,
and check for code compliance as part of stamping plans for the new
building and the reno. Instead, you must go out, take your own
measurements, make your own determinations as to what the materials
are, somehow find buried pipes, etc. so that you can show them on your
plans? That may be the law, but that doesn't make sense. In this
case, relying on the old dead guy will probably give you much better
info than you could find without his plans. Seems like there has be
some discretion there. No? I mean, you have control of your new
design, but you have no control of the design of the building that is
already built but you have to show parts of it on your plans.

Just wondering.

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"Pat" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 26, 7:25 am, "Michael Bulatovich" wrote:
"Pat" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Mar 24, 11:44 am, 3D Peruna wrote:
RicodJour wrote: Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan
Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the
states
I'm registered in...


Really? I thought a arch/eng could stamp plans under 2 circumstances:
either the plans were designed under the arch/eng's supervision or as
long as the arch/eng reviewed the plans to ensure that they met code,
were structurally sufficient, etc. Granted, that might take nearly as
long as the design but I thought it was okay as long as an actual
review was made (i.e. they just don't stamp them without checking
code). I mean, it is possible/likely that you find a set of plans on
the internet for $500 and pay $5000 to have them reviewed. But it
would be legal cause the stamper reviewed EVERYTHING and therefore
could ensure code complaince.


Only the first 'circumstance' is legal in Ontario. Review for code
compliance is not the only type of responsibility that the stamp
signifies.
It is also for "responsible control" of the design. There are all kinds
of
aspects of a design which are not necessarily EXPLICITLY cited in
drawings
but which can make or break a project. The designer is responsible for
them,
but someone reviewing for code compliance may not appreciate them because
the documents do not describe them. By putting the stamp on the drawings
I'm taking responsibility for the whole show, and my association wants me
to
be sure that I've thought about all of it.

(There is a new condition here after recent legislation that permits me
to
stamp drawings for code compliance if another ***architect*** takes
responsibility for the rest. I can't stamp the drawings of non-architects
at
all, although I'm asked to again and again because I'm a 'little guy' who
presumably would throw away 26 years of work for a G-note.)
--

MichaelBwww.michaelbulatovich.ca


I deal with funding all day and therefore whenever I see a regulation
I like to push and probe it a little and see what it really
encompasses. So let me pose a hypothetical. I am not trying to be a
PITA, I'm just curious about that reg because I believe it is an
unobtainable prohibition.

Let's say you are putting an addition on a older building -- all
concrete, steel, asbestos, etc. etc. You have the As Builts but the
original architect is dead and buried. But he did a good job and gave
you great drawings with incredible details.

So you figure you want to punch a few holes through the building,
bring in some mechanicals and a couple of doorways. So you need to be
concerned with the structural elements of the exisiting building -- is
it structurally sound, etc. etc. Plus you'll be doing some rehab over
there so you need to bring portions of that building up to code -- say
new interior walls, new HVAC, new electrical, ADA, and maybe a new
elevator.

Now there's now way your new work is done "stand along" because you're
tying in to an existing building. You need to show certain elements
of that building. So what you are saying is that the law says you
cannot rely at all on the old drawings and then confirm the details,
and check for code compliance as part of stamping plans for the new
building and the reno. Instead, you must go out, take your own
measurements, make your own determinations as to what the materials
are, somehow find buried pipes, etc. so that you can show them on your
plans? That may be the law, but that doesn't make sense. In this
case, relying on the old dead guy will probably give you much better
info than you could find without his plans. Seems like there has be
some discretion there. No? I mean, you have control of your new
design, but you have no control of the design of the building that is
already built but you have to show parts of it on your plans.

Just wondering.

I am doing just that on a job. I have plans from 1905 and remodeling from
1931. I have to depend on those drawings (and they appear to be accurate)
because there is a restaurant in the space that can not shut down till
August for the remodeling, so all hidden work must be trusted to be correct.
I'm sure we will find some discrepancies, but no major ones. The City has
accepted the plans with attached sections of the originals.
EDS


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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

In a previous post 3D Peruna wrote...
Not misleading, but illegal in most states. "Plan Stamping" or the
reviewing of plans prepared by others is not legal in any of the states
I'm registered in...


Same for me. Documents must be prepared under direct supervision of the
design professional who places his/her seal on the documents.

I don't stamp house plans that I have reviewed unless I redraw them.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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Default How Long to Tape / Mud / Sand Drywall ?

In a previous post Don wrote...
Its all a matter of wording.
Just cause YOU call it *reviewing* doesn't make it so.
I know plenty of architects and engineers that have boilerplate sheets made
up with stuff like standard details of headers, footing steel, sill
sections, etc. that simply date and stamp them and sell them to the
homeowner or others for a few hundred bux. The homeowner or builder includes
them with the rest of the permit package and everyone's happy. When the code
changed in 1992 requiring architects and/or engineers to stamp ALL plans
submitted for permit this created a finacial boon for all of them.
Architects and engineers design less than 5% of all the homes in SW FL but
they make money off of ALL of them, by law.


Now I think that is wrong! If a set of house plans meets the prescriptive
requirements of IRC then no design professional should have to seal the
drawings. That's they way it is here in Kitsap County and in most
jurisdictions in Washington State.

Of course in seismic zone D2, it's not very easy to design a house to meet
the prescriptive requirements unless you happen to like houses with small
rooms and not very many windows.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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