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Pulling wire in the walls



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 14th 07, 04:06 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,079
Default Pulling wire in the walls

One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?

In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and drops
down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the studs going
up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without major destruction
of the wall? For all I know it could be threaded through the studs (or
worse in front of the studs as was done in a few spots). I guess you could
use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is pretty heavily shielded and
it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.

If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.


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  #2  
Old February 14th 07, 04:19 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,906
Default Pulling wire in the walls

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?

In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and
drops down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the
studs going up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without
major destruction of the wall? For all I know it could be threaded
through the studs (or worse in front of the studs as was done in a few
spots). I guess you could use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is
pretty heavily shielded and it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.

If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.



Depressing news: In my previous house, built in the 1940s, the Romex was
stapled every which way. Goodbye, walls, at least for the part I rewired.
But, when we got estimates for redoing the kitchen, 3 electricians said they
were comfortable snaking new wires in existing walls, even though it meant
the wires couldn't be fastened to the studs. How they expected to do this, I
have no idea.


  #3  
Old February 14th 07, 04:44 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,179
Default Pulling wire in the walls

On Feb 13, 11:06 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?


If you are replacing your romex because it has no grounds, there are
2 ways to fix this without snaking new wires. You can put a GFI
outlet on the first outlet of the circuit, which then protects
anything downstream of the outlet, or you can protect the entire
circuit with a GFCI breaker. In most jurisdictions, code permits this.
You are protected against shocks.

  #4  
Old February 14th 07, 04:51 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 1,079
Default Pulling wire in the walls


"Mikepier" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Feb 13, 11:06 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out
of
the wall?


If you are replacing your romex because it has no grounds, there are
2 ways to fix this without snaking new wires. You can put a GFI
outlet on the first outlet of the circuit, which then protects
anything downstream of the outlet, or you can protect the entire
circuit with a GFCI breaker. In most jurisdictions, code permits this.
You are protected against shocks.


Well I guess that's an option. In that case I'd only have to do the outlets
and the panel.

Both responses that I've heard so far, yours included, tell me that I'd
either get used to GFCI outlets or break out the crowbar and start knocking
holes. If it comes to knocking holes, I'm replacing the whole drywall sheet
and putting up the insulation might as well kill 2 birds with one stone.
I'll also probably halt my painting, no sense painting the walls if I have
to rip it out anyway.

I so much want to do this the "right" way, and not fall back on GFCI
outlets - but time and money talks.


  #5  
Old February 14th 07, 05:02 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,906
Default Pulling wire in the walls

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?

In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and
drops down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the
studs going up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without
major destruction of the wall? For all I know it could be threaded
through the studs (or worse in front of the studs as was done in a few
spots). I guess you could use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is
pretty heavily shielded and it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.

If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.



Sheetrock is cheap, and the insulation will pay for itself quickly. As you
said, time's the issue. But, with home projects I've never done before, I
find that once I figure out how to do things efficiently, the second room
usually goes quicker than the first. Usually.


  #6  
Old February 14th 07, 05:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 5,180
Default Pulling wire in the walls


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?

In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and

drops
down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the studs

going
up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without major

destruction
of the wall? For all I know it could be threaded through the studs (or
worse in front of the studs as was done in a few spots). I guess you

could
use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is pretty heavily shielded

and
it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.

If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.


If the wire comes from the attic, go up there and determine where
it drops into the walls. If that cooresponds to the same stud space
as the outlet, you can drill a new hole near the old one, and run a
wire puller down to the box, and pull a new wire. Or, you can use
a flex drill to drill from a box hole in the wall up into the attic or
down into the basement. One way or another, it probably can be
done without trashing walls. Things like insulation can make it more
difficult.

Bob


  #7  
Old February 14th 07, 08:01 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 281
Default Pulling wire in the walls


"Bob F" wrote in message
. ..


If the wire comes from the attic, go up there and determine where
it drops into the walls. If that cooresponds to the same stud space
as the outlet, you can drill a new hole near the old one, and run a
wire puller down to the box, and pull a new wire. Or, you can use
a flex drill to drill from a box hole in the wall up into the attic or
down into the basement. One way or another, it probably can be
done without trashing walls. Things like insulation can make it more
difficult.

Bob



I've always wondered about fishing wires through existing walls. Code says
the wire should be attached to the studs and near the boxes. Is there an
exemption for remodel work? Just curious.
Cheers,
cc


  #8  
Old February 14th 07, 01:05 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 10
Default Pulling wire in the walls

A good way is to go on the roof and pull your shingle up and drill your hole
from here. Also use a piece of furnace chain to attach to the wire it will
hang straight down. Two tips I have used many times over the years as well
as using a coat for a drill bit next to a baseboard to locate a receptacle
box from the basement for TV wires
"Bob F" wrote in message
. ..

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out
of
the wall?

In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and

drops
down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the studs

going
up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without major

destruction
of the wall? For all I know it could be threaded through the studs (or
worse in front of the studs as was done in a few spots). I guess you

could
use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is pretty heavily shielded

and
it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.

If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.


If the wire comes from the attic, go up there and determine where
it drops into the walls. If that cooresponds to the same stud space
as the outlet, you can drill a new hole near the old one, and run a
wire puller down to the box, and pull a new wire. Or, you can use
a flex drill to drill from a box hole in the wall up into the attic or
down into the basement. One way or another, it probably can be
done without trashing walls. Things like insulation can make it more
difficult.

Bob




  #9  
Old February 14th 07, 01:28 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 6,205
Default Pulling wire in the walls

On Feb 14, 8:05´┐Żam, "Larry and a Cat named Dub"
wrote:
A good way is to go on the roof and pull your shingle up and drill your hole
from here. Also use a piece of furnace chain to attach to the wire it will
hang straight down. Two tips I have used many times over the years as well
as using a coat for a drill bit next to a baseboard to locate a receptacle
box *from the basement for TV wires"Bob F" wrote in message

. ..





"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? *I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out
of
the wall?


In my house it looks reasonable that the Romex goes from the attic and

drops
down to the outlets, so in this case it would be stapled to the studs

going
up - but what's the easiest way to determine that without major

destruction
of the wall? *For all I know it could be threaded through the studs (or
worse in front of the studs as was done in a few spots). *I guess you

could
use a stud finder or the like, but old Romex is pretty heavily shielded

and
it'd be easy to lose the run among the studs.


If I'm looking at demolishing the wall, I might as well remove the entire
wall in one sheet - at least then I can put up insulation while I'm there
and clean out the buggies.


If the wire comes from the attic, go up there and determine where
it drops into the walls. If that cooresponds to the same stud space
as the outlet, you can drill a new hole near the old one, and run a
wire puller down to the box, and pull a new wire. Or, you can use
a flex drill to drill from a box hole in the wall up into the attic or
down into the basement. One way or another, it probably can be
done without trashing walls. Things like insulation can make it more
difficult.


Bob- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Well having been thru this myself

Had a outlet that the incoming wire was dead, never did figure out
where it came from plaster walls no obvios signs a real mess.

I just ran new line, left old line in box capped of with tiny note
capped off line appears dead, dont know what breaker its on. so you
run a new line connect it to whatevers convenient of the same gauge

I had a box with a outlet hot neutral reverse wires too short box too
small to pigtail Removed outlet left wires with wire nuts, installed
blank cover.

Added new outlet a foot away feed from convenient nearby receptable in
basement.

Obviously you cant attach wires to studs buried in walls its old work,
make CERTAIN romex is attached firmly to box, I found a home once
where ome jerk saved money didnt use any cable clamps

The short review is abandon the existing outlet, remove receptable,
wire nut wires, perhaps note which breaker inside box for future
owner. Install blank cover!

Install new outlet nearby, get book wiring simplified.

Buy electricians bit up to 6 feet longer longer with extensions drill
down from attic or up from new hole cut in wall, run new romex. I
leave a central attic workbox for additions, makes life easy when we
really need outlet over here! Bit has hole in end to attach string to
then pull wire

Its challenging but FUN to snake wires thru walls No DEMO needed!

  #10  
Old February 14th 07, 02:38 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 6,380
Default Pulling wire in the walls

In article , "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson" wrote:

I've always wondered about fishing wires through existing walls. Code says
the wire should be attached to the studs and near the boxes. Is there an
exemption for remodel work? Just curious.


"Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where... the
cable is fished between access points through concealed spaces in finished
buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable."
[2005 NEC, Article 334.30(B)(1)]

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
 




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