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#1
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Drywall sag
If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if
mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. |
#2
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. USG recommends 5/8" gyp bd be supported by joists 16" O.C. if the gyp bd sheets are parallel to the joists and by joists 24" O.C. if the sheets are perpendicular to the joists. TB |
#3
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw Ceiling joists at 48" are way too far apart, even for 5/8" ....if you want the ceiling to look flat IMO even 5/8 is a stretch at 24" .....I would use 1/2 with joists at 16 cheers Bob PS the drywall / plywood combo will cut very easily with a jig saw |
#4
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Drywall sag
BobK207 wrote: Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw Ceiling joists at 48" are way too far apart, even for 5/8" ....if you want the ceiling to look flat IMO even 5/8 is a stretch at 24" .....I would use 1/2 with joists at 16 cheers Bob PS the drywall / plywood combo will cut very easily with a jig saw I'd be curious to know where any building code allows 48" as routine ceiling joist spacing, whether in a basement or anywhere else. I'm betting you don't have a building permit. |
#5
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Drywall sag
"Eigenvector" wrote in message ... If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? Yes, it will look like crap I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. No, it is not I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. One method looks like crap and you have verified that. The other method is correct. Your choice, do it right or a second half assed job. You can get away with 2 x 3. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. That certainly narrow down the options. 1/4 plywood is not going to help much anyway. That too may sag at 48" spans. That gravity thing is not going away. |
#6
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote:
.. I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. .. No were I have ever seen. Without seeing exactly what you are working with I can only suggest you need to get that down to 24" or better yet 16". I would go for 16" -- Joseph Meehan Dia 's Muire duit |
#7
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Drywall sag
Now you know why furring stock is used as strapping.
Lay it out to make full use of the tapered drywall edges on 16" centers. |
#8
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Drywall sag
wrote in message ups.com... BobK207 wrote: Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw Ceiling joists at 48" are way too far apart, even for 5/8" ....if you want the ceiling to look flat IMO even 5/8 is a stretch at 24" .....I would use 1/2 with joists at 16 cheers Bob PS the drywall / plywood combo will cut very easily with a jig saw I'd be curious to know where any building code allows 48" as routine ceiling joist spacing, whether in a basement or anywhere else. I'm betting you don't have a building permit. Not required, I'm repairing existing work - I asked first. But thanks for playing. As for 48" separation, I've seen a lot of houses with this kind of joist separation. Perhaps its peculiar to my house construction, pier and post foundation, but certainly not unique. |
#9
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Drywall sag
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... "Eigenvector" wrote in message ... If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? Yes, it will look like crap I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. No, it is not I see this in a lot of houses where I live, especially in downstairs garages. The roof joists are all 24". I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. One method looks like crap and you have verified that. The other method is correct. Your choice, do it right or a second half assed job. You can get away with 2 x 3. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. That certainly narrow down the options. 1/4 plywood is not going to help much anyway. That too may sag at 48" spans. That gravity thing is not going away. That sucks. That adds a hell of a lot more work that has to be done. Attaching the studs to the existing joists itself is going to be a trick Nothing for it then but to do it right. |
#10
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Drywall sag
yes,
s "Eigenvector" wrote in message ... If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? |
#11
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Drywall sag
How about screwing 3 46" 2x3s or lighter steel studs to the drywall before
screwing the drywall edges to the joists on 4' centers? Nick |
#12
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. Time to buy a chopsaw. Cut each joist 1/8 - 1/4" long and test fit. Pare the ends until it fits. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. Cheap circular saw or jigsaw with 2 x 4 guide fence. Two more options: Hang 2 x 4s across the joists, 24" apart. Possible downside is this will lower your ceiling 2". That, or a cathedral ceiling. |
#13
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote: "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... "Eigenvector" wrote in message ... If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? Yes, it will look like crap I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. No, it is not I see this in a lot of houses where I live, especially in downstairs garages. The roof joists are all 24". I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. One method looks like crap and you have verified that. The other method is correct. Your choice, do it right or a second half assed job. You can get away with 2 x 3. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. That certainly narrow down the options. 1/4 plywood is not going to help much anyway. That too may sag at 48" spans. That gravity thing is not going away. That sucks. That adds a hell of a lot more work that has to be done. Attaching the studs to the existing joists itself is going to be a trick Nothing for it then but to do it right. I'm thinking that some mis-communication is going on here........support members for drywall or even plywood would be difficult to get to perform at 48" oc that's just too far for the sheet material to span unless, in the case of plywood, it was really thick maybe we need a better description of the exisitng condition & the project objective You mention what seems to be a post & pier foundation system? what size are these "ceiling joists" that are at 48" oc? are these really "support beams" for the floor joists above? I may have given poor advice based my lack of understanding of the situation cheers Bob |
#14
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Drywall sag
"Father Haskell" wrote in message ups.com... Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. Time to buy a chopsaw. Cut each joist 1/8 - 1/4" long and test fit. Pare the ends until it fits. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. Cheap circular saw or jigsaw with 2 x 4 guide fence. Two more options: Hang 2 x 4s across the joists, 24" apart. Possible downside is this will lower your ceiling 2". That, or a cathedral ceiling. A 1x4 may work as well. I was actually thinking of cutting 48" 2x4 spans and mounting them between the joists at 16" spacings. It's a heck of a lot of cutting and physically mounting the 2x4s to the joists will be an issue (not insurmountable though). I'm not in a hurry so I can take my time. Anyways, I got what I needed from you all, thanks again for the options and the responses. |
#15
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote:
If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. Maybe you're trying to solve the wrong problem. Forget the drywall - it's too heavy. Perhaps ceiling tiles - they're 48" and should be quite easy to install flush with your joists. |
#16
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? Let me suggest resilent channel (metal) at 16" centre perpendicular to the joists. Then you can use 1/2 " drywall attached using drywall screws. And the channel will reduce noise/vibration transmission between the two areas ... if that's a consideration. |
#17
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Drywall sag
"Eigenvector" wrote in message That sucks. That adds a hell of a lot more work that has to be done. Attaching the studs to the existing joists itself is going to be a trick Nothing for it then but to do it right. I'd buy a cheap Harbor Freight nail gun and a $99 miter saw. It won't be all that bad, especially if the dimension between existing studs are consistent. It would be easier yet to put them on top of the joist, but you lose a lot of headroom that way. |
#18
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Drywall sag
Eigenvector wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... BobK207 wrote: Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw Ceiling joists at 48" are way too far apart, even for 5/8" ....if you want the ceiling to look flat IMO even 5/8 is a stretch at 24" .....I would use 1/2 with joists at 16 cheers Bob PS the drywall / plywood combo will cut very easily with a jig saw I'd be curious to know where any building code allows 48" as routine ceiling joist spacing, whether in a basement or anywhere else. I'm betting you don't have a building permit. Not required, I'm repairing existing work - I asked first. But thanks for playing. As for 48" separation, I've seen a lot of houses with this kind of joist separation. Perhaps its peculiar to my house construction, pier and post foundation, but certainly not unique. It is not pier and post, it is post and beam. Yes it is common in some parts of the country and it is for the bottom floor. The posts are usually on 8 foot center and the beams are 4 feet apart. Beams are often double 2x8's or double 2x10's. It is used for crawl spaces because who would want to live in that kind of room? Sounds like a basement that was put in after the house was constructed with a crawl space. Or, are you talking about old type of post and beam construction with very large beams and longer distances between posts? In any case, the minimum you need are 2x4's between beams with the 2x4's spaced on 16 inch centers. Or use a drop ceiling, not drywall. |
#19
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Drywall sag
"Eigenvector" wrote in message ... "Father Haskell" wrote in message ups.com... Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? I'm not seeing too much information about that around, even though I'm pretty sure 48" is pretty standard framing for a basement. I made the mistake of putting 1/2" up the first time - bad bad mistake that cost me dearly. But 5/8" isn't that much more. The idea of installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, especially since it will introduce more margins for error unless I'm a demon for measurements. Time to buy a chopsaw. Cut each joist 1/8 - 1/4" long and test fit. Pare the ends until it fits. I am also considering the idea of using plywood backing over the joists as a way to give the drywall a larger surface to attach to - even if it isn't structural it will still remove any sagging. But that option has the detraction of reducing my headroom by 1/4" or more. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but it all adds up - not to mention it will make adding lighting fixtures a huge pain in the ass since you can't cut plywood with a drywall saw. Cheap circular saw or jigsaw with 2 x 4 guide fence. Two more options: Hang 2 x 4s across the joists, 24" apart. Possible downside is this will lower your ceiling 2". That, or a cathedral ceiling. A 1x4 may work as well. I was actually thinking of cutting 48" 2x4 spans and mounting them between the joists at 16" spacings. It's a heck of a lot of cutting and physically mounting the 2x4s to the joists will be an issue (not insurmountable though). I'm not in a hurry so I can take my time. Anyways, I got what I needed from you all, thanks again for the options and the responses. Don't even consider 1x4's for this. 2x4's on 16" centers is the method that will be most successful. You could install them with metal brackets if you don't like accurate cutting and nailing but if you get set up properly it should not be a difficult job to just cut and nail. Don't forget to check the evenness of the existing joists. If they are not reasonably straight and even (level is not very important) you would want to use a guide string and shims as needed. Don Young Don Young |
#20
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Drywall sag
bowgus wrote:
Eigenvector wrote: If I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart, will 5/8" drywall sag if mounted on it? Let me suggest resilent channel (metal) at 16" centre perpendicular to the joists. Then you can use 1/2 " drywall attached using drywall screws. And the channel will reduce noise/vibration transmission between the two areas ... if that's a consideration. The channels are designed to span 24" max, not 48" - so they'll sag too. I thought of a suspended drywall ceiling, but the main runners couldn't handle 48" spans either. |
#21
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Drywall sag
I have ceiling joists that are 48" apart
installing 2x4's between the studs isn't my idea of a fun time, Could you screw 1/2" drywall to the subfloor "between" the beams? Then either wrap each beam with drywall, or wrap them with lumber and stain (assuming the beams aren't attractive enough to leave exposed). Accent the beams instead of hiding them. Just watch the length of the screws so you don't have screws coming up through the floor. Of course, this approach would make it difficult to run wiring, piping, insulation, etc. Alternatively, how far do the beams span? Maybe you could add a joist or two "parallel" to the beams instead of short segments between beams. The beams support the floor, so the new joists only need to be sized like ceiling joists to hold up the drywall. So, depending on the span, you could probably use a single 2x4 or 2x6 between the beams (I'd probably opt for two joists for a 16" OC spacing). unless I'm a demon for measurements. If you must run 2x4 blocking between the beams, mark out 16" spacing along the two end beams, then snap chalk lines across the bottoms of the beams so you'll know where the blocking needs to go. Then take a few measurements at various places to find out what the largest distance is. Then use a power miter saw and a stop block to cut several blocks an inch or so longer than the longest you'll need. Now grab a handful of the blocks, and go to one of the bays between the beams. Hold one end of the block against the side of one beam, and mark the exact length you'll need to cut the block. Write a number 1 on this block, and a number one on the side of the beam so you know where this block belongs. Move to the next chalkline, and repeat the procedure, this time writing 2 on the block and beam. Repeat for the rest of the bay. Take the blocks back to the miter saw and cut them all to the lengths you marked. Now you should have blocks ready to nail up in that bay. They should be a snug fit, so tap them in with a hammer, centering over the chalkline. You can toenail them in by hand if you don't have an air nailer, or use a screwgun and 3" deck screws. By marking the blocks in position, you'll avoid measuring errors and can accomodate fluctuations in the spacing between the beams. You can cut the blocks with a circular saw or even a handsaw if you don't have a power miter saw. But this sounds like a good excuse to buy a new toy. Worst case, you could probably rent a miter saw from a tool rental store. Have fun! Anthony |
#22
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Drywall sag
The channels are designed to span 24" max, not 48" - so they'll sag too. I thought of a suspended drywall ceiling, but the main runners couldn't handle 48" spans either. Sure, but you could use wire ... well, maybe something like steel coathanger "hangers" ... at the midpoint (24") attached to the subfloor above. I have suspended ceiling in part of my basement (that ugly 2' x 4' fiberglass stuff ... was a rush job ... I've got to strap (1x3s) and put in drywall one of these days). It's suspended using steel wire ... multiple loops. |
#23
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Drywall sag
"bowgus" wrote in message ps.com... The channels are designed to span 24" max, not 48" - so they'll sag too. I thought of a suspended drywall ceiling, but the main runners couldn't handle 48" spans either. Sure, but you could use wire ... well, maybe something like steel coathanger "hangers" ... at the midpoint (24") attached to the subfloor above. I have suspended ceiling in part of my basement (that ugly 2' x 4' fiberglass stuff ... was a rush job ... I've got to strap (1x3s) and put in drywall one of these days). It's suspended using steel wire ... multiple loops. Sounds like its getting too complicated for a simple solution job. Hanging 2x4's between the joists using nails is so much more simple and elegant than messing around with wire hangers, false ceilings (I can't stand false ceilings), or anything else. I had the solution when I wrote the question, but sometimes you block out that solution in your mind when you want to believe a simpler solution exists - in some far off mythical plane. |
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