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boiler ignition problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 20th 06, 04:07 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 259
Default boiler ignition problem

I am having an intermittent problem with the boiler for my hot water
heating system. The boiler is a Peerless, uses natural gas. The
ignitor control is a White-Rodgers 50E47-150. What happens is I
notice the house is kind of cold, see that the temperature is well
below what the thermostat is set to, and go down to look. The
circulating pump is running but the boiler is cold. The red light is
flashing on the ignition control module. According to the
troubleshooting guide for the control unit, this indicates the fault is
likely outside the module itself. However, turning off power to the
system and turning it back on again makes it restart and then it works
fine for a while (like a couple days). When the system fails, I don't
know whether it is because of a failed start or it is shutting down
prematurely while running, although it always starts OK after the power
off/on.

I am thinking that the ignitor must be OK since it works whenever I am
watching, and it would either work or not work at all. Perhaps the
flame sensor is not consistent? Problem with the gas valve? Any
suggestions welcome as to things to test or guesses as to what the
problem most likely is. Thanks, -- H

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  #2  
Old December 20th 06, 05:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 747
Default boiler ignition problem

Heathcliff wrote:
I am having an intermittent problem with the boiler for my hot water
heating system. The boiler is a Peerless, uses natural gas. The
ignitor control is a White-Rodgers 50E47-150. What happens is I
notice the house is kind of cold, see that the temperature is well
below what the thermostat is set to, and go down to look. The
circulating pump is running but the boiler is cold. The red light is
flashing on the ignition control module. According to the
troubleshooting guide for the control unit, this indicates the fault is
likely outside the module itself. However, turning off power to the
system and turning it back on again makes it restart and then it works
fine for a while (like a couple days). When the system fails, I don't
know whether it is because of a failed start or it is shutting down
prematurely while running, although it always starts OK after the power
off/on.

I am thinking that the ignitor must be OK since it works whenever I am
watching, and it would either work or not work at all. Perhaps the
flame sensor is not consistent? Problem with the gas valve? Any
suggestions welcome as to things to test or guesses as to what the
problem most likely is. Thanks, -- H


I would clean the flame probe first. Very fine steel wool or the
like. Dust any particles off afterward.

Less likely is an intermittent board itself.

Jim
  #3  
Old December 20th 06, 06:13 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 561
Default boiler ignition problem


Heathcliff wrote:
I am having an intermittent problem with the boiler for my hot water
heating system. The boiler is a Peerless, uses natural gas. The
ignitor control is a White-Rodgers 50E47-150. What happens is I
notice the house is kind of cold, see that the temperature is well
below what the thermostat is set to, and go down to look. The
circulating pump is running but the boiler is cold. The red light is
flashing on the ignition control module. According to the
troubleshooting guide for the control unit, this indicates the fault is
likely outside the module itself. However, turning off power to the
system and turning it back on again makes it restart and then it works
fine for a while (like a couple days). When the system fails, I don't
know whether it is because of a failed start or it is shutting down
prematurely while running, although it always starts OK after the power
off/on.

I am thinking that the ignitor must be OK since it works whenever I am
watching, and it would either work or not work at all. Perhaps the
flame sensor is not consistent? Problem with the gas valve? Any
suggestions welcome as to things to test or guesses as to what the
problem most likely is. Thanks, -- H


Without observing a failure and/or serious diagnostic tools, you'll
just keep chasing it.
Cheap easy-to-replace stuff comes first to mind, as does checking the
circuit board for bad solder joints.

Another item to check is the size of the pilot flame, and the little
holes (jets) that go from the pilot to the burner proper. Sometimes the
pilot flame is a skosh too small and it won't reach the main gas jets,
and sometimes the gas jets that go between the pilot/ignitor and the
main burner plug/corrode.

I believe even in a 'pilotless' system, the ignitor lights a small gas
jet, then that gas jet lights off the burner proper.

Be aware that messing with it, you may booger something up that could
cause a hazard, or require a service call/parts replacement. If there
were to be a fire, your homeowners insurance could be affected if it
was caused by the furnace after you worked on it.

Dave

  #4  
Old December 20th 06, 06:52 PM posted to alt.home.repair
Sev
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Posts: 160
Default boiler ignition problem


I'm wondering if the problem is something else entirely, like air in
the system. I realise that sounds odd, but I saw a system fail just
like this recently- and though I didn't get a chance to talk to
plumber who set it straight, I did see he had installed air purge valve.

  #5  
Old January 10th 07, 07:33 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 259
Default boiler ignition problem


Speedy Jim wrote:
Heathcliff wrote:
I am having an intermittent problem with the boiler for my hot water
heating system. The boiler is a Peerless, uses natural gas. The
ignitor control is a White-Rodgers 50E47-150. What happens is I
notice the house is kind of cold, see that the temperature is well
below what the thermostat is set to, and go down to look. The
circulating pump is running but the boiler is cold. The red light is
flashing on the ignition control module. According to the
troubleshooting guide for the control unit, this indicates the fault is
likely outside the module itself. However, turning off power to the
system and turning it back on again makes it restart and then it works
fine for a while (like a couple days). When the system fails, I don't
know whether it is because of a failed start or it is shutting down
prematurely while running, although it always starts OK after the power
off/on.

I am thinking that the ignitor must be OK since it works whenever I am
watching, and it would either work or not work at all. Perhaps the
flame sensor is not consistent? Problem with the gas valve? Any
suggestions welcome as to things to test or guesses as to what the
problem most likely is. Thanks, -- H


I would clean the flame probe first. Very fine steel wool or the
like. Dust any particles off afterward.

Less likely is an intermittent board itself.

Jim


Here is an update. As usual Speedy was spot on. I finally was able to
observe the boiler failing when the off/on procedure stopped working.
The ignitor would go on, flame would go on, but then shut off after a
couple seconds. That confirmed for me that the flame sensor was not
working. I tried cleaning it off with steel wool but to no effect.
Then I took it in to my local HVAC parts store (in a mild panic as the
house got cold) where they told me (a) they have no replacement for it
in stock, and even finding out where to get one might take a couple
days, and (b) it tested OK for continuity, I just need to do a lot more
cleaning. So I took it home and spent about 15 minutes really going at
it with the steel wool. After that it worked. Didn't realize how much
elbow grease was required.

Side note: as I was returning from the parts store, when I got out of
the car dang if the darn thing didn't catch on something and the wire
pulled out from the sensor. Some bad words were spoken. I cleaned off
the end of the wire and managed to jam it back in, good enough for it
to work, this is the second day with no problems yet (fingers crossed).

Further question: I would still like to have a spare on hand for this,
but apparently this model is discontinued from the manufacturer
(White-Rodgers) and they have no suggestion as to a substitute. Does
anyone know how interchangeable these flame sensors are? It is your
basic metal rod, about three inches long and maybe 3/32 in. thick,
emerging from a ceramic body, with a wire coming out the other end. I
noticed an ad on Ebay for a similar-looking model, the ad claims it can
be trimmed and bent to suit. That makes it sound like they are not so
precisely spec'ed. -- H

 




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