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State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 5th 06, 09:59 PM posted to alt.home.repair
RBM
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Posts: 1,690
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were exactly
as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to give me
the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The essence of
the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the
house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that
are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want certified
electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they have an
issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They take a number of
factors in to determine if they will insure a house with this type of
wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


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  #2  
Old December 5th 06, 10:24 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 591
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were
exactly as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to
give me the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The
essence of the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T
wiring in the house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for
the loads that are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want
certified electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this
determination, depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building.
Clearly they have an issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age.
They take a number of factors in to determine if they will insure a house
with this type of wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


Sounds very reasonable to me.


  #3  
Old December 5th 06, 10:45 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 17
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

RBM (remove this) wrote:
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were exactly
as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to give me
the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The essence of
the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the
house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that
are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want certified
electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they have an
issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They take a number of
factors in to determine if they will insure a house with this type of
wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


State Farm Insures our home and never did the agent ask about knob and
tube wiring. Our home is 80 years old and we do have k&t, but only for
three ceiling lights and two outdoor porch lights. The remaining
electric is up to date. But never did State Farm ask about our wiring.
We live in a very small town if that makes a difference. Many old homes
around.

-Felder

  #4  
Old December 5th 06, 11:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 6,205
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

Just so you know the K&T insurance issue is true heres a paste from
another board discussing it. I have NO connection with anything there,
and put some of this up as a reference to insurance rules today!

As you can see insurance has become picky recently....


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Posted by Jerry_in_OC_MD (My Page) on Tue, Nov 8, 05 at 16:55


We had the home inspection on the 1920 "Dutch Colonial Revival" that we

are in the process of purchasing.
The Inspector had a lot of concerns about the knob and tube wiring in
the house. Some, but not all of the electric is updated. He recommended

that we (or preferably the seller) have the wiring inspected and safety

tested by an licensed electrician before we take possession of the
house.


He mentioned that it might be tough to get a homeowners policy with the

electric in it's current state. Has anyone else had difficulty getting
an insurance policy for their home because of knob-and-tube?


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Posted by homemaker (My Page) on Tue, Nov 8, 05 at 18:11


Here in Ontario, if you have an existing policy, most insurers will
cover a newly purchased home with knob & tube wiring, and give you
30-60 days to disconnect and replace it.
This is a fairly recent change, for a couple of years, it was nigh on
impossible to get insurance for any house with knob & tube unless it
was with a high risk company.


First time home buyers are having more luck these days, but it often
means wearing out your dialing finger. Having an electrical certificate

stating that the wiring is safe and adequate and also advising what
percentage of the wiring is knob & tube may help.


If you have home insurance now, check with your current broker to see
how your company deals with knob & tube issues.


Hope this helps.


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Posted by joed (My Page) on Tue, Nov 8, 05 at 19:00


Here in Ontario I know of at least one person who was forced to replace

their K&T or their insurance would not renew.


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Posted by homemaker (My Page) on Tue, Nov 8, 05 at 21:49


I should have been clearer. Most insurers here will not take on a home
with knob & tube, or keep an existing property with K & T unless it is
disconnected and replaced within 30-60 days.
The only exceptions I know of have been elderly folks who really don't
use much power and tend to have no computers, VCR's, microwaves, and
who live much more simply than those of us with all kinds of fancy
appliances and toys. Electrician's letters advising that the wiring is
safe and adequate for the senior have satisfied many insurance
companies. Makes it tough for those buying the house if it's sold
though.


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Posted by bas157 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 8, 05 at 22:06


When I bought my house, USAA (insurance company) wanted to see the home

inspection report, which pictured some knob and tube wiring. They
wanted it replaced until I showed them better pictures which clearly
show the wiring was just a few pieces and the knobs, obviously hooked
up.


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Posted by kennf (My Page) on Wed, Nov 9, 05 at 14:21


Other than insurance, the other problem with K&T is that you aren't
supposed to insulate over it. So if you want to insulate the attic
better than 1920s standards, you may be out of luck.


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Posted by Vermonster (My Page) on Wed, Nov 9, 05 at 14:45


We were unable to get homeowners insurance with knob and tube
energized. Agreed to de-energize circuit and update. Policy is through
Vermont Mutual.
VT


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Posted by NancyLouise (My Page) on Thu, Nov 10, 05 at 8:01


We have a 100 year old home. When we recently switched insurance
companies, during the inspection one of the first questions the
inspector asked was if there was any K & T wiring. Luckily there
wasn't. It is a very real safety concern. I believe it may be more
difficult to get insurance because of it. Perhaps you can have monies
taken off the asking price of the home to get the home's wiring up to
code. It can't hurt to ask. NancyLouise


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Posted by Mom1993 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 10, 05 at 15:00


We own a 1920's house, had all original K&T wiring. Amica (who we have
used for 15 years) wouldn't insure the house - Fireman's fund would. We

are replacing almost all of the original electrical...Good luck!


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Posted by athomein1914 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 11, 05 at 20:36


Our house was almost entirely knob & tube when purchased and we had no
trouble insuring. (Allstate)
We've since rewired to code and insulated the attic. There was zero
insulation when we purchased our home.


Another insurance issue we've run into is insuring for replacement of
the historic home we have as opposed to a flat rate per square foot. I
find there is tremendous variation among insurance companies, and among

policies, and every so often I call around to update myself and my
home. You can insure beyond the "standard" to protect your
not-so-standard home.


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Posted by terryr (My Page) on Sun, Nov 13, 05 at 16:44


We have Grange Insurance on an 1896 house. They didn't ask us about
knob & tube, only about fuses vs. circuit breaker. We had 90 days to
upgrade to a CB.


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Posted by Bella_Design (My Page) on Mon, Nov 14, 05 at 23:23


I have a 1918 house in TN. It has some K&T in it as well. The main
breaker had two 100 amp fuses in it and was able to insure it with the
condition that I replace the fuse box with a circuit breaker, but none
of the wiring was a problem. The thing I had the most problem with was
that it is partially asbestos sided. Try Erie Insurance if they are
available in your area.

  #5  
Old December 5th 06, 11:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 6,205
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

Beyond the issue of wether and at what cost someone CAN get homeowners
insurance.........

Wonder what percentage of shoppers would just ignore the home to avoid
the issue? for many buyers it may well scare them away?

my realtor said 90% of buyers TODAY want a home in move in condition,
later they will modify as needed. plus most purchase the most expensive
home they can afford leaving little money for things like rewiring.

all things to think about when one decides to sell a home.....

Of course the OP home is really low cost but it will be interesting to
see how the selling goes.....

I wish him only the best.

  #6  
Old December 6th 06, 12:12 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 930
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring


wrote:
Beyond the issue of wether and at what cost someone CAN get homeowners
insurance.........

Wonder what percentage of shoppers would just ignore the home to avoid
the issue? for many buyers it may well scare them away?

my realtor said 90% of buyers TODAY want a home in move in condition,
later they will modify as needed. plus most purchase the most expensive
home they can afford leaving little money for things like rewiring.

all things to think about when one decides to sell a home.....

Of course the OP home is really low cost but it will be interesting to
see how the selling goes.....

I wish him only the best.






Wonder what percentage of shoppers would just ignore the home to avoid
the issue? for many buyers it may well scare them away?


Depends on the market & the buyers.....a house in my neighborhood
(about 1700 sqft 3bd/2ba)

has been "re-done" inside & out (supposedly) by the previous two
owners...it sold for $862k

I assumed that ALL the K&T had been replaced and ALL the drain & fresh
water plumbing had bee replaced...

wrong! Two weeks after move in, I kept seeing plumbing trucks
there.....the new bath drain plumbing had been just atttached to the
old stuff

bottom line..... in spite of the high price they stll needed to have
the drain plumbing replaced AND a new house to sewer connection...they
also replaced the fresh water supply (street to house)

They wanted an old house with the charm factor so that in spite of any
comments on the inspection report they still bought the place (after a
short bidding war)



while I was in the basement giving them my 2cents on their plumbing
situation I noticed that only the kitchen & new bedroom had new NM
.....I was shocked to see the rest of the house is still K&T!

luckily my new neighbors are DINK's so they have $'s for rework when
they need it

I have K&T in my house as well but the wire is in amazifng shape...I
recently moved an outlet & pulled the wire from the wall just check the
condition. The stuff looked & felt great....nothing like the
condition one sees in a swtich box.

My goal is to remove all & replace with THHN/THWN in flex or emt.
Already have a modern Square D QO main panel & subs...so its just a
matter of time.



cheers
Bob

  #7  
Old December 6th 06, 12:17 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 296
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

I have stae farm and a 1935 house. No electrical inspection- in fact
no interior inspection at all


wrote:
RBM (remove this) wrote:
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were exactly
as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to give me
the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The essence of
the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the
house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that
are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want certified
electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they have an
issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They take a number of
factors in to determine if they will insure a house with this type of
wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


State Farm Insures our home and never did the agent ask about knob and
tube wiring. Our home is 80 years old and we do have k&t, but only for
three ceiling lights and two outdoor porch lights. The remaining
electric is up to date. But never did State Farm ask about our wiring.
We live in a very small town if that makes a difference. Many old homes
around.

-Felder


  #8  
Old December 6th 06, 12:17 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 296
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

I have stae farm and a 1935 house. No electrical inspection- in fact
no interior inspection at all


wrote:
RBM (remove this) wrote:
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were exactly
as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to give me
the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The essence of
the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the
house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that
are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want certified
electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they have an
issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They take a number of
factors in to determine if they will insure a house with this type of
wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


State Farm Insures our home and never did the agent ask about knob and
tube wiring. Our home is 80 years old and we do have k&t, but only for
three ceiling lights and two outdoor porch lights. The remaining
electric is up to date. But never did State Farm ask about our wiring.
We live in a very small town if that makes a difference. Many old homes
around.

-Felder


  #9  
Old December 6th 06, 12:17 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 296
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

I have stae farm and a 1935 house. No electrical inspection- in fact
no interior inspection at all


wrote:
RBM (remove this) wrote:
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that company
deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave me were exactly
as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were not willing to give me
the specific documents they read to me regarding this issue. The essence of
the document is that they want to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the
house, the condition of the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that
are on the wiring. There are notes indicating that they want certified
electrical inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they have an
issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They take a number of
factors in to determine if they will insure a house with this type of
wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


State Farm Insures our home and never did the agent ask about knob and
tube wiring. Our home is 80 years old and we do have k&t, but only for
three ceiling lights and two outdoor porch lights. The remaining
electric is up to date. But never did State Farm ask about our wiring.
We live in a very small town if that makes a difference. Many old homes
around.

-Felder


  #10  
Old December 6th 06, 01:18 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 229
Default State Farm Insurance vs knob & tube wiring

RBM wrote:
I contacted a State Farm Insurance agent today to find out how that
company deals with homes that have K&T wiring. The replies they gave
me were exactly as I would have expected. Unfortunately, they were
not willing to give me the specific documents they read to me
regarding this issue. The essence of the document is that they want
to know the percentage of K&T wiring in the house, the condition of
the K&T, and if it is adequate for the loads that are on the wiring.
There are notes indicating that they want certified electrical
inspectors or licensed electricians to make this determination,
depending upon the percentage of K&T in the building. Clearly they
have an issue with K&T , and the issue is primarily its age. They
take a number of factors in to determine if they will insure a house
with this type of wiring, but there is NO blanket denial due to K&T


What do you want? That wiring is very old, but that in itself does not
mean not safe. It was put in when codes were a lot weaker and when demands
on wiring was far less than today. What they are asking for is exactly what
any homeowner, perspective buyer or resident should want to know. Sounds
like they got it right.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit



 




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