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Default how to protect pipes if no heat?

In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But what
keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


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"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.

The underground pipes don't freeze because (hopefully), they're installed
below the frost line - the depth at which the ground freezes in your area.


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If you have a water heater and you won't be present, you should
probably drain that device too.

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:04:26 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.

The underground pipes don't freeze because (hopefully), they're installed
below the frost line - the depth at which the ground freezes in your area.

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On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:59:36 GMT, "peter" wrote:

In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But what
keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?



When we lost power for a long time, I was told to open cabinet doors.
The house heat would transfer to the pipes easier, and with proper
insulation, water wouldn't freeze for a while. Now this is advice I
was given.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com

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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.



How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets




The underground pipes don't freeze because (hopefully), they're installed
below the frost line - the depth at which the ground freezes in your area.




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wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.



How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets


The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the pipes.


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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.



How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets


The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the pipes.


And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.

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wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating.
But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main
valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.


How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets


The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the pipes.


And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.


Worked fine for me in two houses. One house had a valve right by the
shutoff, and I opened that as well. This house doesn't have such a valve.

What's your issue with the method? What do you suggest?


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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating.
But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main
valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.


How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets

The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the pipes.


And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.


Worked fine for me in two houses. One house had a valve right by the
shutoff, and I opened that as well. This house doesn't have such a valve.

What's your issue with the method? What do you suggest?




Well, you got very lucky. How cold did it actually get in the house?
If all you do is open all the faucets, get the water running, and turn
off the main valve, the pipes will still be full of water. How can
you thiink water will be out of the pipes from just doing that?

The system needs to be drained by turning off the water, opening all
the faucets, then opening a drain valve somewhere at the lowest point
in the sytem. The toilets then need to be flushed and some antifreexe
poured in them, plus all the drains, like bathtub, sinks, etc.

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wrote in message
ps.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from
freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central
heating.
But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a
slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main
valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.


How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the
main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in
the
toilets

The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the
pipes.

And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.


Worked fine for me in two houses. One house had a valve right by the
shutoff, and I opened that as well. This house doesn't have such a valve.

What's your issue with the method? What do you suggest?




Well, you got very lucky. How cold did it actually get in the house?
If all you do is open all the faucets, get the water running, and turn
off the main valve, the pipes will still be full of water. How can
you thiink water will be out of the pipes from just doing that?

The system needs to be drained by turning off the water, opening all
the faucets, then opening a drain valve somewhere at the lowest point
in the sytem. The toilets then need to be flushed and some antifreexe
poured in them, plus all the drains, like bathtub, sinks, etc.


Temp: Hovered below 20 degrees for 4 days in both cases.

Lowest point: Correct. But, some residue isn't going to bust the pipes. Have
you ever frozen soup in glass jars? The method involves leaving an inch of
space at the top, and NOT tightening the lids until after the freezing is
complete. In pipes, as long as the valves are open and there's some room for
expansion, you're not likely to have problems. Obviously, this will depend
to an extent on whether or not the house has any strange bends in the pipe
installation (mine didn't).




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peter wrote:
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?


The best way ... basically same as a cottage, drain the system (switch
off that now empty electric water heater), put antifreeze in the
toilet(s). FWIW, my water tanks are in the basement and have drains on
the bottom ... can't imagine a tank that doesn't have some means of
draining ... e.g. for replacement. A short length of garden hose to the
floor drain and I can drain the system ... which I've done to install
new copper lines in the basement.

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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from
freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central
heating.
But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a
slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main
valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.


How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the
main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in
the
toilets

The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the
pipes.

And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.


Worked fine for me in two houses. One house had a valve right by the
shutoff, and I opened that as well. This house doesn't have such a valve.

What's your issue with the method? What do you suggest?




Well, you got very lucky. How cold did it actually get in the house?
If all you do is open all the faucets, get the water running, and turn
off the main valve, the pipes will still be full of water. How can
you thiink water will be out of the pipes from just doing that?

The system needs to be drained by turning off the water, opening all
the faucets, then opening a drain valve somewhere at the lowest point
in the sytem. The toilets then need to be flushed and some antifreexe
poured in them, plus all the drains, like bathtub, sinks, etc.


Temp: Hovered below 20 degrees for 4 days in both cases.

Lowest point: Correct. But, some residue isn't going to bust the pipes. Have
you ever frozen soup in glass jars? The method involves leaving an inch of
space at the top, and NOT tightening the lids until after the freezing is
complete. In pipes, as long as the valves are open and there's some room for
expansion, you're not likely to have problems. Obviously, this will depend
to an extent on whether or not the house has any strange bends in the pipe
installation (mine didn't).




20 degrees inside the house or outside? If it's 20 outside, no big
surprise the pipes didn't freeze. If it's 20 inside, I would be very
suprised if they didn't freeze and burst. A 20 or 30 foot section of
pipe isn;t a wide mouth jar. And if it's just a matter of leaving a
faucet open for expansion, what does "strange bends" have to do with it?

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wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days
during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from
freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central
heating.
But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a
slow
drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the
main
valve
to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.


How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the
main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting?
The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in
the
toilets

The idea is to leave as little residual water as possible in the
pipes.

And how does turning on the water full blast and then shutting of
the
main valve leave little residual water in the pipes? The pipes
are
going to still be just about full of water and will certainly freeze
and burst. To prevent freezing, they need to be DRAINED.


Worked fine for me in two houses. One house had a valve right by the
shutoff, and I opened that as well. This house doesn't have such a
valve.

What's your issue with the method? What do you suggest?



Well, you got very lucky. How cold did it actually get in the house?
If all you do is open all the faucets, get the water running, and turn
off the main valve, the pipes will still be full of water. How can
you thiink water will be out of the pipes from just doing that?

The system needs to be drained by turning off the water, opening all
the faucets, then opening a drain valve somewhere at the lowest point
in the sytem. The toilets then need to be flushed and some antifreexe
poured in them, plus all the drains, like bathtub, sinks, etc.


Temp: Hovered below 20 degrees for 4 days in both cases.

Lowest point: Correct. But, some residue isn't going to bust the pipes.
Have
you ever frozen soup in glass jars? The method involves leaving an inch
of
space at the top, and NOT tightening the lids until after the freezing is
complete. In pipes, as long as the valves are open and there's some room
for
expansion, you're not likely to have problems. Obviously, this will
depend
to an extent on whether or not the house has any strange bends in the
pipe
installation (mine didn't).




20 degrees inside the house or outside? If it's 20 outside, no big
surprise the pipes didn't freeze. If it's 20 inside, I would be very
suprised if they didn't freeze and burst. A 20 or 30 foot section of
pipe isn;t a wide mouth jar. And if it's just a matter of leaving a
faucet open for expansion, what does "strange bends" have to do with it?


20 degrees inside. As far as the rest, I'm not up for a recreational
argument just now. If you think my pipes burst and I simply didn't notice,
so be it.


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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

20 degrees inside. As far as the rest, I'm not up for a recreational
argument just now. If you think my pipes burst and I simply didn't notice,
so be it.




Here's some references about how to winterize a home that will be
without heat:


http://www.askthebuilder.com/386_Hom...our_Home.shtml
The water that is in your northern home's water lines needs to be
drained. Water that freezes in supply lines or traps in drainage lines
can cause them to crack. Go to the lowest fixture in the house that has
hot and cold water. Open those valves. Go to every plumbing fixture in
the home and open all valves and flush all toilets. This will allow
gravity to pull the water down through the system. Closed valves create
vacuums that prevent water from draining.


http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tvpr...216641,00.html
Drain the water heater and all toilets, toilet tanks, and pipes, making
sure there is no water left standing in low-lying loops of pipe. Put
non-toxic antifreeze (used in boats and RVs) in the toilet bowls (a
third to a half gallon each will do) to keep the liquid sealed between
the sewer or septic system and the air in the house. Same for the P
traps in the sinks, and drains, which will require only two cups or so
of antifreeze. Run the dishwasher dry and put a third gallon of
antifreeze in it, then run it for part of a cycle to circulate the
antifreeze through the pump. I put a bit more in the dishwasher for
good measure, and use the


http://www.doityourself.com/stry/winterize
How to Winterize a Vacation Home

Water System
Shut off water systems by turning off the pump or shutting the valve if
on city water. Drain the pressure tank.
Open all faucets.
Break a union close to the valve so water will drain out clear to the
shut-off valve.
Drain pump and run a second or two to be sure all water is out of lines
from the pump.
Flush toilets and dip all water out of the flush tank.
Be sure to drain flexible spray hoses in showers and sinks.
Drain water softeners so water will drain back from soft water pipes
and controls. Brine tank will probably not freeze.
Drain water heaters.



I'd be happy to look at any credible references that support your
position that all you have to do is open faucets and shut off the main
water valve.

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I'd be happy to look at any credible references that support your
position that all you have to do is open faucets and shut off the main
water valve.


Next time I'm without heat for a few days, you can stop by and watch the
pipes not burst.

The antifreeze is a good idea, but I just didn't do it.

As far as references, what did you do before there was an internet? Do you
ever believe peoples' experiences if you don't have a web link?




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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
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I'd be happy to look at any credible references that support your
position that all you have to do is open faucets and shut off the main
water valve.


Next time I'm without heat for a few days, you can stop by and watch the
pipes not burst.


Being without heat for a few days and having no pipes freeze doesn't
prove anything. It can take a couple of days for a house to lose heat
to begin with. That's very different from a house that's without heat
for a week when it's 15 degrees outside.




The antifreeze is a good idea, but I just didn't do it.

As far as references, what did you do before there was an internet? Do you
ever believe peoples' experiences if you don't have a web link?



Just as I thought, no references, just bad advice. It's like saying,
I leave my car at the convenience store, with the engine running, and
it's never been stolen, so that's good practice.

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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
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I'd be happy to look at any credible references that support your
position that all you have to do is open faucets and shut off the main
water valve.


Next time I'm without heat for a few days, you can stop by and watch the
pipes not burst.


Being without heat for a few days and having no pipes freeze doesn't
prove anything. It can take a couple of days for a house to lose heat
to begin with. That's very different from a house that's without heat
for a week when it's 15 degrees outside.



Read slowly:

20 (TWENTY) degrees Fahrenheit

Inside the house

Duration: 4 days.

I'm sorry you were forced at gunpoint to empty the dishwasher this morning.


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"peter" wrote in message
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In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?


Ask your water utility. We do not know whether
you are in Wisconsin or Mississippi.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


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"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...

In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during
freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?


Ask your water utility. We do not know whether
you are in Wisconsin or Mississippi.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)



What about Saskatchewan?


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Anyone that interested in proving a point is hiding some sort of
benevolent agenda. "Don't listen to anyone else or the internet,
listen to me" screams 'control issue'.

But, I'm not a psychologist...so this is just my experience, I'm not
going to come back and start arguing that you're a "control freak"
simply because it's good form as I'm not a professional experienced in
fixing control freaks.



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wrote in message
oups.com...
Anyone that interested in proving a point is hiding some sort of
benevolent agenda. "Don't listen to anyone else or the internet,
listen to me" screams 'control issue'.

But, I'm not a psychologist...so this is just my experience, I'm not
going to come back and start arguing that you're a "control freak"
simply because it's good form as I'm not a professional experienced in
fixing control freaks.


What????? :-) I'm not telling anyone NOT to garner advice on the web. I'm
saying it's not a good idea to ignore actual experience. This is the damage
done by the web: Fear of experimentation, failure to consider why a
non-standard technique may work, and a complete distrust of personal
experience. How did some people gather knowledge before the web existed and
there were no links to so-called experts, many of whom are no more "expert"
than you or I?


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it was directed at the opposite side of the argument...

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wrote in message
ps.com...
it was directed at the opposite side of the argument...


It was hard to tell, but that was me. Doing too many things at once.


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In article .com,
says...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
news:YYUch.3052$bW2.358@trndny04...
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?

Leave each faucet dripping, or turn off water main?

I'm trying to compile a disaster todo list.

BTW, normally pipes inside houses are kept warm by central heating. But
what keeps the pipes under the streets from freezing?


If you're there to keep an eye on things, leave the faucets on a slow drip.
If you're gone, turn them on full blast and then shut off the main valve to
the house. Last, flush all toilets.



How is turning on the faucets full blast and then shutting of the main
valve going to prevent his pipes from freezing and bursting? The
solution if the place is going to be left unattended and possibly
without power, is to drain the water system and put antifreeze in the
toilets


Depending on the layout of the house, his method could work fairly well.
If you turn off the water with all the faucets open, the upstairs
plumbing will drain through the downstairs faucets. If you then flush
all the toilets, they're usually the lowest fixture in each bathroom, so
they'll drain much of the remaining water in the system. Especially if
you flush each toilet again to make sure there's no water left in the
tank.

But I'd still worry in a hard freeze, this method doesn't clear the
water out of the toilet traps or other drain traps, it doesn't drain the
water heater, and it doesn't drain all the pipes in the walls. It
really is best to drain the whole system from a low-point drain valve if
you have one.

--
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On 4 Dec 2006 08:00:55 -0800, wrote:



http://www.askthebuilder.com/386_Hom...our_Home.shtml
The water that is in your northern home's water lines needs to be
drained. Water that freezes in supply lines or traps in drainage lines
can cause them to crack. Go to the lowest fixture in the house that has
hot and cold water.


This is a little strange, or poorly put. You should go to the lowest
fixture that has hot water, and the lowest that has cold water.

In my cases and most cases that is the same fixture (if wwe don't
count toilets) but if it is isn't, do it my way.

Open those valves. Go to every plumbing fixture in
the home and open all valves and flush all toilets. This will allow
gravity to pull the water down through the system.


Hmmm. valve open or closed?

Closed valves create
vacuums that prevent water from draining.


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On 4 Dec 2006 07:41:57 -0800, "bowgus" wrote:


peter wrote:
In the unfortunate event of losing electric power for days during freezing
weather, what is the best way to prevent water pipes from freezing?


The best way ... basically same as a cottage, drain the system (switch
off that now empty electric water heater)


Backwards. You have to switch it off BEFORE you empty it. If it
runs without water covering the elements, it will quickly burn them
out. Less than 5 minutes I think. Maybe less than one?

, put antifreeze in the
toilet(s). FWIW, my water tanks are in the basement and have drains on
the bottom ... can't imagine a tank that doesn't have some means of
draining ... e.g. for replacement. A short length of garden hose to the
floor drain and I can drain the system ... which I've done to install
new copper lines in the basement.


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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
it was directed at the opposite side of the argument...


It was hard to tell, but that was me. Doing too many things at once.


" Anyone that interested in proving a point is hiding some sort of
benevolent agenda. "Don't listen to anyone else or the internet,
listen to me" screams 'control issue'. "


It's hard for me to tell what he's talking about too, because I never
said don't listen to anyone else, or the internet. In fact, I provided
several internet links to useful information and even asked for links
to information that said otherwise.

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wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
it was directed at the opposite side of the argument...


It was hard to tell, but that was me. Doing too many things at once.


" Anyone that interested in proving a point is hiding some sort of
benevolent agenda. "Don't listen to anyone else or the internet,
listen to me" screams 'control issue'. "


It's hard for me to tell what he's talking about too, because I never
said don't listen to anyone else, or the internet. In fact, I provided
several internet links to useful information and even asked for links
to information that said otherwise.


From what I can see, you implied that what worked for me actually did NOT
work.




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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...
it was directed at the opposite side of the argument...


It was hard to tell, but that was me. Doing too many things at once.


" Anyone that interested in proving a point is hiding some sort of
benevolent agenda. "Don't listen to anyone else or the internet,
listen to me" screams 'control issue'. "


It's hard for me to tell what he's talking about too, because I never
said don't listen to anyone else, or the internet. In fact, I provided
several internet links to useful information and even asked for links
to information that said otherwise.


From what I can see, you implied that what worked for me actually did NOT
work.



What I said was opening all the faucets and then just turning off the
main valve without draining the water from the system was not the
correct and accepted way to winterize a house subjected to freezing
temps. And I provided supporting links. Could someone do it that
way and not have the pipes burst? Sure. The pipes also may not have
burst had you done nothing. Or you could now have a weakened pipe
with a bulge somewhere in a wall.

Could someone not change their engine oil for 50K miles and still have
it work OK? Or could someone live in a house with an incorrectly
vented gas heater and not die of CO? Sure, but does that doesn't make
it an OK and acceptable practice.

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