Hi,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, poured-concrete foundation.

The kitchen is in the back on the East side. Under the sink is
the usual P-traps etc which direct flow into a near-horozontal
copper pipe (maybe 2 " dia.) running thru the wall.

In the basement under the pipe is a window. I built a spare
bedrrom down there 20 years ago. To the left of the window
is a closet inside of which is the elec. svc. panel and,
a few inches from the edge of the window, a cast iron soil pipe
(vertical, lead/oakum joints) running thru the floor.

I just found water on the floor of the bedroom. The top of the
window was soaked. Either the top of the soil pipe or, more
likely, the juncture between the copper pipe and the soil pipe
is leaking. I can't see the leak (yet), but there's nothing
else in the immediate area to leak. Unless there's several
feet of flow path from the kitchen sink supply over to the
area of the copper drain pipe (doesn't sound likely, but
I cant see).

I've got fans down there to dry things out. I guess in the
morn I'll run water thru the drain to hopefully confirm the
leak is from the drain, 'tho it's in the wall and I won't
be able to see it.

Don't really know what to do. How does one nail down the
source of the leak and fix? Rip the sink cabinets out,
tear the plaster wall apart?

I had to cut maybe 6' of soil pipe out last year and
replace with pvc, but it was horozontal and chock full
of crud. Vertical cast iron soil pipe is supposed to
last like 100 years? How likely is it to fail in
56 years? How likely the copper pipe (in the kitchen
wall) to fail?

Any help sizing this up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

plan to update the copper drain with plastic.
copper + iron = galvanic action [corrosion].
any horizontal drain pipes will collect sediment.
check the waste pipe above: it may be leaking rainwater where it passes
up thru roof.


Puddin' Man wrote:
Hi,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, poured-concrete foundation.

The kitchen is in the back on the East side. Under the sink is
the usual P-traps etc which direct flow into a near-horozontal
copper pipe (maybe 2 " dia.) running thru the wall.

In the basement under the pipe is a window. I built a spare
bedrrom down there 20 years ago. To the left of the window
is a closet inside of which is the elec. svc. panel and,
a few inches from the edge of the window, a cast iron soil pipe
(vertical, lead/oakum joints) running thru the floor.

I just found water on the floor of the bedroom. The top of the
window was soaked. Either the top of the soil pipe or, more
likely, the juncture between the copper pipe and the soil pipe
is leaking. I can't see the leak (yet), but there's nothing
else in the immediate area to leak. Unless there's several
feet of flow path from the kitchen sink supply over to the
area of the copper drain pipe (doesn't sound likely, but
I cant see).

I've got fans down there to dry things out. I guess in the
morn I'll run water thru the drain to hopefully confirm the
leak is from the drain, 'tho it's in the wall and I won't
be able to see it.

Don't really know what to do. How does one nail down the
source of the leak and fix? Rip the sink cabinets out,
tear the plaster wall apart?

I had to cut maybe 6' of soil pipe out last year and
replace with pvc, but it was horozontal and chock full
of crud. Vertical cast iron soil pipe is supposed to
last like 100 years? How likely is it to fail in
56 years? How likely the copper pipe (in the kitchen
wall) to fail?

Any help sizing this up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Puddin' Man wrote:
Hi,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, poured-concrete foundation.

The kitchen is in the back on the East side. Under the sink is
the usual P-traps etc which direct flow into a near-horozontal
copper pipe (maybe 2 " dia.) running thru the wall.

In the basement under the pipe is a window. I built a spare
bedrrom down there 20 years ago. To the left of the window
is a closet inside of which is the elec. svc. panel and,
a few inches from the edge of the window, a cast iron soil pipe
(vertical, lead/oakum joints) running thru the floor.

I just found water on the floor of the bedroom. The top of the
window was soaked. Either the top of the soil pipe or, more
likely, the juncture between the copper pipe and the soil pipe
is leaking. I can't see the leak (yet), but there's nothing
else in the immediate area to leak. Unless there's several
feet of flow path from the kitchen sink supply over to the
area of the copper drain pipe (doesn't sound likely, but
I cant see).

I've got fans down there to dry things out. I guess in the
morn I'll run water thru the drain to hopefully confirm the
leak is from the drain, 'tho it's in the wall and I won't
be able to see it.

Don't really know what to do. How does one nail down the
source of the leak and fix? Rip the sink cabinets out,
tear the plaster wall apart?

I had to cut maybe 6' of soil pipe out last year and
replace with pvc, but it was horozontal and chock full
of crud. Vertical cast iron soil pipe is supposed to
last like 100 years? How likely is it to fail in
56 years? How likely the copper pipe (in the kitchen
wall) to fail?

Any help sizing this up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Copper in DWV service only has a life of 40-50 years.
The harsh soaps and chemicals eat thru it until it
looks like lace curtain.

Where the copper enters the CI stack, there should
be some kind of hub you may be able to attach a
Fernco coupling to and extend with 2" PVC.
That would avoid disturbing the stack at all.

See if you can make a run dropped below the
ceiling without duplicating the old run.

Kitchen traps connected to a 2" waste line
were often permitted without a vent connection,
so don't be surprised if there isn't a vent.

Bore a hole thru the floor under the sink
if that looks like a good way to make the run.

Jim

On 23 Nov 2006 18:47:03 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

plan to update the copper drain with plastic.

Sounds good ...

copper + iron = galvanic action [corrosion].
any horizontal drain pipes will collect sediment.

And no easy way to clear it (to my knowledge).

Come to think of it, I did snake the copper pipe
some months ago ... flow was constricted.

check the waste pipe above: it may be leaking rainwater where it passes
up thru roof.

I forgot that this drop is roof vented. The vent should have
a rain deflector or somesuch?

Thx,
Puddin'


Puddin' Man wrote:
Hi,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, poured-concrete foundation.

The kitchen is in the back on the East side. Under the sink is
the usual P-traps etc which direct flow into a near-horozontal
copper pipe (maybe 2 " dia.) running thru the wall.

In the basement under the pipe is a window. I built a spare
bedrrom down there 20 years ago. To the left of the window
is a closet inside of which is the elec. svc. panel and,
a few inches from the edge of the window, a cast iron soil pipe
(vertical, lead/oakum joints) running thru the floor.

I just found water on the floor of the bedroom. The top of the
window was soaked. Either the top of the soil pipe or, more
likely, the juncture between the copper pipe and the soil pipe
is leaking. I can't see the leak (yet), but there's nothing
else in the immediate area to leak. Unless there's several
feet of flow path from the kitchen sink supply over to the
area of the copper drain pipe (doesn't sound likely, but
I cant see).

I've got fans down there to dry things out. I guess in the
morn I'll run water thru the drain to hopefully confirm the
leak is from the drain, 'tho it's in the wall and I won't
be able to see it.

Don't really know what to do. How does one nail down the
source of the leak and fix? Rip the sink cabinets out,
tear the plaster wall apart?

I had to cut maybe 6' of soil pipe out last year and
replace with pvc, but it was horozontal and chock full
of crud. Vertical cast iron soil pipe is supposed to
last like 100 years? How likely is it to fail in
56 years? How likely the copper pipe (in the kitchen
wall) to fail?

Any help sizing this up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 02:47:43 GMT, Speedy Jim wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
Hi,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in the midwest, built in
'54, poured-concrete foundation.

The kitchen is in the back on the East side. Under the sink is
the usual P-traps etc which direct flow into a near-horozontal
copper pipe (maybe 2 " dia.) running thru the wall.

In the basement under the pipe is a window. I built a spare
bedrrom down there 20 years ago. To the left of the window
is a closet inside of which is the elec. svc. panel and,
a few inches from the edge of the window, a cast iron soil pipe
(vertical, lead/oakum joints) running thru the floor.

I just found water on the floor of the bedroom. The top of the
window was soaked. Either the top of the soil pipe or, more
likely, the juncture between the copper pipe and the soil pipe
is leaking. I can't see the leak (yet), but there's nothing
else in the immediate area to leak. Unless there's several
feet of flow path from the kitchen sink supply over to the
area of the copper drain pipe (doesn't sound likely, but
I cant see).

I've got fans down there to dry things out. I guess in the
morn I'll run water thru the drain to hopefully confirm the
leak is from the drain, 'tho it's in the wall and I won't
be able to see it.

Don't really know what to do. How does one nail down the
source of the leak and fix? Rip the sink cabinets out,
tear the plaster wall apart?

I had to cut maybe 6' of soil pipe out last year and
replace with pvc, but it was horozontal and chock full
of crud. Vertical cast iron soil pipe is supposed to
last like 100 years? How likely is it to fail in
56 years? How likely the copper pipe (in the kitchen
wall) to fail?

Any help sizing this up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...

Copper in DWV service only has a life of 40-50 years.
The harsh soaps and chemicals eat thru it until it
looks like lace curtain.

So the copper was more-or-less duw to fail ...

Where the copper enters the CI stack, there should
be some kind of hub you may be able to attach a
Fernco coupling to and extend with 2" PVC.
That would avoid disturbing the stack at all.

The stack is roof-vented. So there's maybe a
90 degree joint where copper meets iron?
Yeah, if I gotta go thru the kitchen (ceramic)
tiles (I dunno how), PVC would be preferable.

See if you can make a run dropped below the
ceiling without duplicating the old run.

And just leave the old copper stuff in place?
Doubt there's room, all kinds of wiring, etc
above the basement suspended ceiling. Also,
I dunno how to tap into the cast iron (lead/oakum).

Kitchen traps connected to a 2" waste line
were often permitted without a vent connection,
so don't be surprised if there isn't a vent.

There's a roof vent: I shoulda remembered.

Bore a hole thru the floor under the sink
if that looks like a good way to make the run.

It now looks like I'll hafta go thru kitchen wall,
deal with the copper/iron juncture somehow. But
I'll look closer tomorrow.

Damn, I hate it when they put stuff's gonna fail
in the walls (inaccessable). Guess what they
installed was about the best available, 'tho.

Thanks,
Puddin'

Pease pudding hot,
Pease pudding cold,
Pease pudding in the pot
Nine days old ...