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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.


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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:32 -0600, wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.



Clean water isn't that good a conductor. Wet people are, though.
What surprises me is that the bulb didn't blow up from
thermal stress. FInd out for me what he was using as a bulb,
will ya?

I suspect that, in a non-metallic and/or ungrounded tub,
you'd have a hard time electrocuting yourself, anyway.

The voltage supply the voltage drain are, after all,
right next to each other in whatever device you
drop in the tub. why would the electricity want to
make a side-trip through you? You have to touch
two things at different potentials to get electrocuted.

--Goedjn

(and yet, I don't plan to test my theory...)

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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:11:06 GMT, Tom Horne, Electrician wrote:


wrote:
We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.



It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;

actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.


to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?



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Default Electricity in a filled bathub


It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;

actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.



3/100 = 30/1000


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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

Goedjn wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:32 -0600, wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend
told me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He
replaced it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the
tub when he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on.
The problem, he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back
in the house the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble
light was under water except the bulb which was floating and still
lit. He said he immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut
because he was afraid a screw would go down). How can this be? Why
did a breaker not trip? He said the socket of the light was filled
with water too, because he took it apart to dry it out. He said his
electric drill was also under water, but not plugged in. He took
that apart too.



Clean water isn't that good a conductor. Wet people are, though.
What surprises me is that the bulb didn't blow up from
thermal stress. FInd out for me what he was using as a bulb,
will ya?

I suspect that, in a non-metallic and/or ungrounded tub,
you'd have a hard time electrocuting yourself, anyway.

The voltage supply the voltage drain are, after all,
right next to each other in whatever device you
drop in the tub. why would the electricity want to
make a side-trip through you? You have to touch
two things at different potentials to get electrocuted.

--Goedjn

(and yet, I don't plan to test my theory...)


Electricity follows the path of least resistance.
YOU would BE the path of lowest resistance between any two points in the
tub. Note I'm not talking about "distance", I'm talking about resistance.
Submerged in water, you don't have to "touch" anything because the water
is "touching" every exposed part of your body. The source of the
electricity will find your body part closest to it. Electricity would exit
your body at the point closest to any ground point or point of lower
potential.
Even in an ungrounded tub, it would still be extremely dangerous. You
would -think- electricity would flow from the hot to the neutral of the plug
and you'd be safe, but that's not so either. Stray fields would fill the
tub and, agreed, most of the electricity would flow the half inch or so from
hot to neutral in the plug, light, whatever is in the water, but ... the
stray fields are the killers.
It would require fieldt theory to explain that fully and I sure don't
remember enough of it to even begin!

I think someone said that 300 mA or 0.3A was needed to electrocute you. Or
was it 130 mA? Anyway, the correct description is pretty well accepted to
be 42V ac and per person, it is a highly variable figure. 24Vac can be felt
easily and be very dangerous to some people. Others can take a hundred mA
or so; it's a huge variation depending on a lot of bodily specifications.
Almost any current which goes through a muscle is enough to cause the
muscle to contract during the cycles. Or, worse, it may cause only part of
a given muscle to contract. That includes the heart. Amps can flow from
finger to finger of the same hand without necessarily causing any heart
issues. But a milliamp from left to right arm can cause death, depending on
the body's chemical content and condition of the heart, if it lasts long
enough. So, time also becomes a variable. Your heart will respond to
shocks that you can't necessarily feel, in fact.

Anyway, yeah, no sense in testing the theories, and I'd love to know how
those numbers were derived!! G

I DO know that a radio dropped into a dairy watering tank -can-, not -will-,
blow a fuse: I did it as a kid back on the farm. The cattle all backed
away from the splash, but nothing else happened; luckily!

I've also had the experience of the stancion faucets losing their ground and
becoming electrified. The cows put up an AWFUL fuss about not being able to
drink. Out of about 90 of them, only one had any trouble come milking time;
she was too stressed to let the milk flow into the last chambers. But, she
lived to a ripe old dogfood age. Sounds cruel, but that's farm life.

Pop`





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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

AZ Nomad wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:11:06 GMT, Tom Horne, Electrician wrote:



wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.




It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;


actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.



to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?



Godd arguments for GFCIs, huh?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:41:49 -0500, Mike Lewis wrote:



It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;

actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.



3/100 = 30/1000


no ****!

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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:43:49 +0000, Pop` wrote:

Goedjn wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:32 -0600, wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend
told me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He
replaced it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the
tub when he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on.
The problem, he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back
in the house the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble
light was under water except the bulb which was floating and still
lit. He said he immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut
because he was afraid a screw would go down). How can this be? Why
did a breaker not trip? He said the socket of the light was filled
with water too, because he took it apart to dry it out. He said his
electric drill was also under water, but not plugged in. He took
that apart too.



Clean water isn't that good a conductor. Wet people are, though.
What surprises me is that the bulb didn't blow up from
thermal stress. FInd out for me what he was using as a bulb,
will ya?

I suspect that, in a non-metallic and/or ungrounded tub,
you'd have a hard time electrocuting yourself, anyway.

The voltage supply the voltage drain are, after all,
right next to each other in whatever device you
drop in the tub. why would the electricity want to
make a side-trip through you? You have to touch
two things at different potentials to get electrocuted.

--Goedjn

(and yet, I don't plan to test my theory...)


Electricity follows the path of least resistance.
YOU would BE the path of lowest resistance between any two points in the
tub. Note I'm not talking about "distance", I'm talking about resistance.
Submerged in water, you don't have to "touch" anything because the water
is "touching" every exposed part of your body. The source of the
electricity will find your body part closest to it. Electricity would exit
your body at the point closest to any ground point or point of lower
potential.
Even in an ungrounded tub, it would still be extremely dangerous. You
would -think- electricity would flow from the hot to the neutral of the plug
and you'd be safe, but that's not so either. Stray fields would fill the
tub and, agreed, most of the electricity would flow the half inch or so from
hot to neutral in the plug, light, whatever is in the water, but ... the
stray fields are the killers.
It would require fieldt theory to explain that fully and I sure don't
remember enough of it to even begin!

I think someone said that 300 mA or 0.3A was needed to electrocute you. Or
was it 130 mA? Anyway, the correct description is pretty well accepted to
be 42V ac and per person, it is a highly variable figure. 24Vac can be felt
easily and be very dangerous to some people. Others can take a hundred mA
or so; it's a huge variation depending on a lot of bodily specifications.


Human body has its own resistance so its not so easy to get a large
current flowing through it. Tis of course requires a large force.

Almost any current which goes through a muscle is enough to cause the
muscle to contract during the cycles. Or, worse, it may cause only part
of a given muscle to contract. That includes the heart. Amps can
flow from finger to finger of the same hand without necessarily causing
any heart issues. But a milliamp from left to right arm can cause
death, depending on the body's chemical content and condition of the
heart, if it lasts long enough. So, time also becomes a variable. Your
heart will respond to shocks that you can't necessarily feel, in fact.





This is true. During open heart surgery, the surgeon will not simply
remove any extra skin or anything he find there, but try to tuck it away
in place. Removing the skin or anything can cause the electrical signal
of the heart to be different. That is a very small change. So definitely
the heart can respond to things you can't feel.


Anyway, yeah, no sense in testing the theories, and I'd love to know how
those numbers were derived!! G

I DO know that a radio dropped into a dairy watering tank -can-, not -will-,
blow a fuse: I did it as a kid back on the farm. The cattle all backed
away from the splash, but nothing else happened; luckily!

I've also had the experience of the stancion faucets losing their ground and
becoming electrified. The cows put up an AWFUL fuss about not being able to
drink. Out of about 90 of them, only one had any trouble come milking time;
she was too stressed to let the milk flow into the last chambers. But, she
lived to a ripe old dogfood age. Sounds cruel, but that's farm life.

Pop`




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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:43:49 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:

Goedjn wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:32 -0600, wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend
told me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He
replaced it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the
tub when he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on.
The problem, he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back
in the house the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble
light was under water except the bulb which was floating and still
lit. He said he immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut
because he was afraid a screw would go down). How can this be? Why
did a breaker not trip? He said the socket of the light was filled
with water too, because he took it apart to dry it out. He said his
electric drill was also under water, but not plugged in. He took
that apart too.



Clean water isn't that good a conductor. Wet people are, though.
What surprises me is that the bulb didn't blow up from
thermal stress. FInd out for me what he was using as a bulb,
will ya?

I suspect that, in a non-metallic and/or ungrounded tub,
you'd have a hard time electrocuting yourself, anyway.

The voltage supply the voltage drain are, after all,
right next to each other in whatever device you
drop in the tub. why would the electricity want to
make a side-trip through you? You have to touch
two things at different potentials to get electrocuted.

--Goedjn

(and yet, I don't plan to test my theory...)


Electricity follows the path of least resistance.


"Get out of by body, you stupid electrons! I have more resistance than
that wire over there."

An oversimplification, not true. Electricity follows ALL possible
paths.

YOU would BE the path of lowest resistance between any two points in the
tub. Note I'm not talking about "distance", I'm talking about resistance.
Submerged in water, you don't have to "touch" anything because the water
is "touching" every exposed part of your body. The source of the
electricity will find your body part closest to it. Electricity would exit
your body at the point closest to any ground point or point of lower
potential.
Even in an ungrounded tub, it would still be extremely dangerous. You
would -think- electricity would flow from the hot to the neutral of the plug
and you'd be safe, but that's not so either. Stray fields would fill the
tub and, agreed, most of the electricity would flow the half inch or so from
hot to neutral in the plug, light, whatever is in the water, but ... the
stray fields are the killers.
It would require fieldt theory to explain that fully and I sure don't
remember enough of it to even begin!

I think someone said that 300 mA or 0.3A was needed to electrocute you. Or
was it 130 mA?


I heard 30mA.

The fact that there's 40A flowing through that path of least
resistance, doesn't mean there's not 40mA flowing through some
different path (like through you).

"I can't be dead! I'm not the path of least resistance."

Anyway, the correct description is pretty well accepted to
be 42V ac and per person, it is a highly variable figure. 24Vac can be felt
easily and be very dangerous to some people. Others can take a hundred mA
or so;


Did you mean to mix up current and voltage?

it's a huge variation depending on a lot of bodily specifications.
Almost any current which goes through a muscle is enough to cause the
muscle to contract during the cycles. Or, worse, it may cause only part of
a given muscle to contract. That includes the heart. Amps can flow from
finger to finger of the same hand without necessarily causing any heart
issues. But a milliamp from left to right arm can cause death, depending on
the body's chemical content and condition of the heart, if it lasts long
enough. So, time also becomes a variable. Your heart will respond to
shocks that you can't necessarily feel, in fact.

Anyway, yeah, no sense in testing the theories, and I'd love to know how
those numbers were derived!! G

I DO know that a radio dropped into a dairy watering tank -can-, not -will-,
blow a fuse: I did it as a kid back on the farm. The cattle all backed
away from the splash, but nothing else happened; luckily!

I've also had the experience of the stancion faucets losing their ground and
becoming electrified. The cows put up an AWFUL fuss about not being able to
drink. Out of about 90 of them, only one had any trouble come milking time;
she was too stressed to let the milk flow into the last chambers. But, she
lived to a ripe old dogfood age. Sounds cruel, but that's farm life.

Pop`




--
39 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:35:45 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:11:06 GMT, Tom Horne, Electrician wrote:


wrote:
We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.



It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;

actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.


Yes, it's three hundredths (ignoring inappropriate use of ' character)
of an ampere although I'd usually call it 30 milliamperes (30mA).


to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?

--
39 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:51:41 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:41:49 -0500, Mike Lewis wrote:



It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;
actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.



3/100 = 30/1000


no ****!


And 30,000uA (microamperes).

Don't ask how many microamperes are in a kilovolt :-)
--
39 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams


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In article , Goedjn wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:48:32 -0600, wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.


Clean water isn't that good a conductor. Wet people are, though.
What surprises me is that the bulb didn't blow up from
thermal stress. FInd out for me what he was using as a bulb,
will ya?


If the bulb was not yet really hot when the water hit it, I suspect it's
not that unusual for it to survive. Also, the really hot part would be
the top, which would stay above the water.

I'm not that surprised - but I also would not be surprised if the bulb
broke the next time soneone does this.

- Don Klipstein )
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In article et, Tom
Horne, Electrician wrote:
wrote:
We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.


It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;
to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?


30 milliamperes is 3 hundredths of an ampere.

- Don Klipstein )
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:32:09 -0600, Sam E wrote:


On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:34:57 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:


In article et, Tom
Horne, Electrician wrote:
wrote:
We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.

It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;
to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?


30 milliamperes is 3 hundredths of an ampere.

- Don Klipstein )


Three tenths of an ampere could kill 10 people in parallel


Or an unlimited number of people in series. :-p


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According to Mark Lloyd :
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:43:49 GMT, "Pop`"
wrote:


I think someone said that 300 mA or 0.3A was needed to electrocute you. Or
was it 130 mA?


I heard 30mA.


Anything over about 15ma can be lethal thru external skin contact,
depending on the circumstances.

But it depends. People have been killed by a couple of
microamps. Open heart surgery, ground loop through some (defective)
equipment. That's why hospitals are anal about grounding.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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According to Tom Horne, Electrician :

It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;
to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?


It should ;-) But 30ma is three hundredths of an amp. 3/10s
of an amp is 300ma ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default Electricity in a filled bathub

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 03:42:25 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:32:09 -0600, Sam E wrote:


On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 02:34:57 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:


In article et, Tom
Horne, Electrician wrote:
wrote:
We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.

It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;
to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous
trip. Does that answer your question?

30 milliamperes is 3 hundredths of an ampere.

- Don Klipstein )


Three tenths of an ampere could kill 10 people in parallel


Or an unlimited number of people in series. :-p


True, the same current flows through every part of a series circuit.
--
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http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams
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Default Electricity in a filled bathub


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
et...
AZ Nomad wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:11:06 GMT, Tom Horne, Electrician
wrote:



wrote:

We have all heard the horrors of tossing a toaster or other appliance
in a filled bathtub. Well, I dont understand this now. A friend told
me that he had to replace the shower valve in his tub. He replaced
it, leaving his tools and a plugged in trouble light in the tub when
he went out to the pump house to turn the water back on. The problem,
he never turned the tub faucets off. When he got back in the house
the tub was almost ready to overflow. and the trouble light was under
water except the bulb which was floating and still lit. He said he
immediately unplugged it. (the drain was shut because he was afraid a
screw would go down). How can this be? Why did a breaker not trip?
He said the socket of the light was filled with water too, because he
took it apart to dry it out. He said his electric drill was also
under water, but not plugged in. He took that apart too.



It takes around thirty milliamperes; that's three tenths of an ampere;


actually, it's three hundredth's of an ampere.



to kill, sixteen amperes to trip the breaker on overload, and up to
seventy five amperes to trip it magnetically via it's instantaneous trip.
Does that answer your question?



Godd arguments for GFCIs, huh?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


In this whole thread Jeff, you seem to be the only one that mentions a GFCI
device. Amazing. I believe they trip at 5 ma discrepancy of current flow
from hot to neutral to any current not accounted for from hot to nuetral.. I
have seen industrial GFI's that are rated at 15 ma.

Indeed, that is why GFCI is needed in a wr area.

Bob



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