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Default Metal fence post questions

At Home Depot today I saw these fence post holders that you pound into the
ground. They go 30.5 inches deep, and taper from about an inch across at the
bottom to 4 inches across at the top. A 4x4 post is held onto the top by a
bracket that appears to be about 5 inches deep.

My concerns:
1) The width of the thing is only 4 inches at the top. Is this wide enough
to not tilt or lean over when you put a 6 foot tall fence, spaced at 8 feet?
2) The entire weight of the fence is held by the 4x4 post sitting in a
bracket that is only 5-6 inches tall, or in other words any lateral force
applied to the post due to wind shear, kids climbing on the fence, etc. is
supported by the end of the post in this bracket - it just doesn't seem to
me to be strong enough.

Anyone ever used these, have any comments about them? Are they strong enough
to support a 6 foot tall wood fence with posts at 8 feet intervals?


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Default Metal fence post questions

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:57:58 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

At Home Depot today I saw these fence post holders that you pound into the
ground. They go 30.5 inches deep, and taper from about an inch across at the
bottom to 4 inches across at the top. A 4x4 post is held onto the top by a
bracket that appears to be about 5 inches deep.

My concerns:
1) The width of the thing is only 4 inches at the top. Is this wide enough
to not tilt or lean over when you put a 6 foot tall fence, spaced at 8 feet?
2) The entire weight of the fence is held by the 4x4 post sitting in a
bracket that is only 5-6 inches tall, or in other words any lateral force
applied to the post due to wind shear, kids climbing on the fence, etc. is
supported by the end of the post in this bracket - it just doesn't seem to
me to be strong enough.

Anyone ever used these, have any comments about them? Are they strong enough
to support a 6 foot tall wood fence with posts at 8 feet intervals?


Probably.
It should hold anything that a 4x4 post driven 30 inches into the
ground would. If it fails it will be either the entire bracket
tilting in the dirt, or the post snapping off above the bracket.
The post-to-bracket connection isn't going anywhere.


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Default Metal fence post questions


"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:57:58 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:

At Home Depot today I saw these fence post holders that you pound into the
ground. They go 30.5 inches deep, and taper from about an inch across at
the
bottom to 4 inches across at the top. A 4x4 post is held onto the top by a
bracket that appears to be about 5 inches deep.

My concerns:
1) The width of the thing is only 4 inches at the top. Is this wide enough
to not tilt or lean over when you put a 6 foot tall fence, spaced at 8
feet?
2) The entire weight of the fence is held by the 4x4 post sitting in a
bracket that is only 5-6 inches tall, or in other words any lateral force
applied to the post due to wind shear, kids climbing on the fence, etc. is
supported by the end of the post in this bracket - it just doesn't seem to
me to be strong enough.

Anyone ever used these, have any comments about them? Are they strong
enough
to support a 6 foot tall wood fence with posts at 8 feet intervals?


Probably.
It should hold anything that a 4x4 post driven 30 inches into the
ground would. If it fails it will be either the entire bracket
tilting in the dirt, or the post snapping off above the bracket.
The post-to-bracket connection isn't going anywhere.


What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?
Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket? It's a pinch bracket, no
holes actually get drilled in the post. It would have to squeeze the post
pretty tight to hold it in place. There is going to be a lot of pressure at
that point, but a 4x4 is pretty strong. OTOH, there is only 4-6 inches of
post in the bracket, instead of 2+ feet of post in a hole. I have no
experience with this thing, so not sure how well it would work. Mail box,
yes, 2 foot picket fence, sure, 6 foot fence? Hmm.

Oh, and any suggestions on how to drive them into the ground and have them
end up level? It would not take much to end up with posts that lean. I'm
tempted to pick up a half dozen and see how they work. If they do, great, I
saved a lot of trouble. If they don't, I've wasted 80 bucks or so - these
things are not cheap


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Default Metal fence post questions


What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?
Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket? It's a pinch bracket, no
holes actually get drilled in the post. It would have to squeeze the post
pretty tight to hold it in place. There is going to be a lot of pressure
at that point, but a 4x4 is pretty strong. OTOH, there is only 4-6 inches
of post in the bracket, instead of 2+ feet of post in a hole. I have no
experience with this thing, so not sure how well it would work. Mail box,
yes, 2 foot picket fence, sure, 6 foot fence? Hmm.

Oh, and any suggestions on how to drive them into the ground and have them
end up level? It would not take much to end up with posts that lean. I'm
tempted to pick up a half dozen and see how they work. If they do, great,
I saved a lot of trouble. If they don't, I've wasted 80 bucks or so -
these things are not cheap


I even thought of sinking them in cement. They would last a few hundred
years that way . If the bracket that holds the 4x4 was taller, say 8 or 10
inches or more, I'd think this was a great idea. But 4-5 incheas of bracket
to hold the post? That is where I'm uncertain.


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Default Metal fence post questions


Ook wrote:
What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?
Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket? It's a pinch bracket, no
holes actually get drilled in the post. It would have to squeeze the post
pretty tight to hold it in place. There is going to be a lot of pressure
at that point, but a 4x4 is pretty strong. OTOH, there is only 4-6 inches
of post in the bracket, instead of 2+ feet of post in a hole. I have no
experience with this thing, so not sure how well it would work. Mail box,
yes, 2 foot picket fence, sure, 6 foot fence? Hmm.

Oh, and any suggestions on how to drive them into the ground and have them
end up level? It would not take much to end up with posts that lean. I'm
tempted to pick up a half dozen and see how they work. If they do, great,
I saved a lot of trouble. If they don't, I've wasted 80 bucks or so -
these things are not cheap


I even thought of sinking them in cement. They would last a few hundred
years that way . If the bracket that holds the 4x4 was taller, say 8 or 10
inches or more, I'd think this was a great idea. But 4-5 incheas of bracket
to hold the post? That is where I'm uncertain.



check with the mfr for answers to your concerns


buy one or two & do some experiements with them

OTOH, there is only 4-6 inches
of post in the bracket, instead of 2+ feet of post in a hole.


steel is much stronger than wood or dirt, I wouldn't trust the pinch
connection, I'd had some screws

I even thought of sinking them in cement. They would last a few hundred
years that way .


wood into the concrete or the bracket into concrete????

untreated wood into concrete ~10 to 20 years depending on location &
environment

If the bracket that holds the 4x4 was taller, say 8 or 10
inches or more, I'd think this was a great idea. But 4-5 incheas of bracket
to hold the post? That is where I'm uncertain.


A deeper socket would be better but they must have done some tests?????

cheers
Bob



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Default Metal fence post questions


untreated wood into concrete ~10 to 20 years depending on location &
environment


Around here - rain all the time - I keep hearing 10 years from locals. I'm
planning to be here for longer then that, don't want to have to dig them out
and replace them in 10 years.

A deeper socket would be better but they must have done some tests?????


Maybe, maybe not. It's possible they did some tests and this is the next
best thing since sliced bread. It's also possible they did some preliminary
tests and just dumped the things on the market. So, take a 100 foot run of
fence. Imagine the posts being held by a 4-5 inch tall pinch bracket.
Imagine a 20mph wind blowing. I can just see the entire fence blowing over.

I really like this idea, so I'm researching it to see if it's viable.

buy one or two & do some experiements with them


Yeah, I will probalby do this. I'm hoping someone here has actually used the
things so I don't waste $20-$30 in case they are not useable for a 6 foot
tall fence.


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Default Metal fence post questions

Ook,

Why do you have to have the bracket/footings level? Put them into the
ground as the manufacturer recommends. Level the 4X4s if you want a level
fence top.

Dave M.


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Default Metal fence post questions


Ook wrote:
untreated wood into concrete ~10 to 20 years depending on location &
environment


Around here - rain all the time - I keep hearing 10 years from locals. I'm
planning to be here for longer then that, don't want to have to dig them out
and replace them in 10 years.

A deeper socket would be better but they must have done some tests?????


Maybe, maybe not. It's possible they did some tests and this is the next
best thing since sliced bread. It's also possible they did some preliminary
tests and just dumped the things on the market. So, take a 100 foot run of
fence. Imagine the posts being held by a 4-5 inch tall pinch bracket.
Imagine a 20mph wind blowing. I can just see the entire fence blowing over.

I really like this idea, so I'm researching it to see if it's viable.

buy one or two & do some experiements with them


Yeah, I will probalby do this. I'm hoping someone here has actually used the
things so I don't waste $20-$30 in case they are not useable for a 6 foot
tall fence.


I've seen them but never used them. I was under the impression they
where sold for "repair" not new construction.

I would be concerned about the long term strength & stiffness of the
wood / bracket connection.

I suggest you visit http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/

They have a great deal of information about wood & the design of wooden
structures.

I assume you're interested in the best perfroming, longest lasting
wooden fence at a reasonable cost.

IMO perhaps these brackets are not the best use of resources from the
point of view of post longevity & fence strength / stiffness I'm not a
huge fan of wood posts into the earth but some effort put into post
hole prep might be more cost effective than these brackets.

If you're designing a fence for longevity you need to take a look at
the entire system. As soon as any part of the fence starts to fail,
you go into repair / maint mode.

Things to consider

Treated posts ,
stainless fasteners,

post hole prepped for drainage

continuous (ie spliced double) top rail will give you some moment /
load transfer from section to section so the whole thing works together

some sort of bottom horizontal board worked into the desgin so rot /
termites only effect on board per section rather than 16

May solution to a 75 year old wood frame / stucco fence (no wood left
at this point stucco only) on a concrete footing .........

A CMU wall

cheers
Bob

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What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?

Not really. Anything that would snap the post off above the bracket
would snap the post off at ground level were you to just plant posts.

Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket? It's a pinch bracket, no
holes actually get drilled in the post. It would have to squeeze the post
pretty tight to hold it in place. There is going to be a lot of pressure at


Nope. It seems like a bad connection, but as long as the collar is
deeper than it is wide, the post can't roll out of it without
breaking completely. And you shouldn't have any significant
uplift forces, (sans pig, or stubborn dog) so that fact that
the post can lift out isn't important. It's essentially
the same type of connection as the short metal tube on a
collapsable fiberglass tent-pole. It's just held in by a
rubber band, but in the direction of stress, it's stronger
than the pole.


that point, but a 4x4 is pretty strong. OTOH, there is only 4-6 inches of
post in the bracket, instead of 2+ feet of post in a hole. I have no
experience with this thing, so not sure how well it would work. Mail box,
yes, 2 foot picket fence, sure, 6 foot fence? Hmm.

Oh, and any suggestions on how to drive them into the ground and have them
end up level? It would not take much to end up with posts that lean. I'm
tempted to pick up a half dozen and see how they work. If they do, great, I
saved a lot of trouble. If they don't, I've wasted 80 bucks or so - these
things are not cheap


Start them off straight, and they should go in straight unless you hit
a pretty big rock. And you're not driving one through rock no matter
what you do.

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Default Metal fence post questions

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:21:01 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:


What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?
Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket?


I think the most likely failure would be the bracket coming loose in
the ground. It may go 30 inches deep but isn't it like a sword, just
a flat piece of metal?

I thought these things were for mailboxes, or repairs.



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Default Metal fence post questions


"mm" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:21:01 -0700, "Ook" Ook Don't send me any
freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin'
spam wrote:


What about the post snapping off above the bracket? Is this a real danger?
Or rather, the post coming loose in the bracket?


I think the most likely failure would be the bracket coming loose in
the ground. It may go 30 inches deep but isn't it like a sword, just
a flat piece of metal?

I thought these things were for mailboxes, or repairs.


It's crossed - two pieces perpendicular to each other. Tapered, maybe 1" at
the bottom. 4" at the top. The box they come in shows mail boxes and picket
fences, and larger fences. I vote for mailboxes and picket fences, they
would work very well for that.


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Default Metal fence post questions

That thing is for a mail box post.

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...
At Home Depot today I saw these fence post holders that you pound into the
ground. They go 30.5 inches deep, and taper from about an inch across at
the bottom to 4 inches across at the top. A 4x4 post is held onto the top
by a bracket that appears to be about 5 inches deep.

My concerns:
1) The width of the thing is only 4 inches at the top. Is this wide enough
to not tilt or lean over when you put a 6 foot tall fence, spaced at 8
feet?
2) The entire weight of the fence is held by the 4x4 post sitting in a
bracket that is only 5-6 inches tall, or in other words any lateral force
applied to the post due to wind shear, kids climbing on the fence, etc. is
supported by the end of the post in this bracket - it just doesn't seem to
me to be strong enough.

Anyone ever used these, have any comments about them? Are they strong
enough to support a 6 foot tall wood fence with posts at 8 feet intervals?




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