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single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 10th 06, 09:40 AM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!

Part B:
The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
breaker?

Thank you for your time,
William

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  #2  
Old September 10th 06, 01:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair
RBM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,690
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

You can't exceed 80%, so you could use 30 amp wire. A wall thermostat or
switch needs to disconnect both hot legs


" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!

Part B:
The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
breaker?

Thank you for your time,
William



  #3  
Old September 10th 06, 04:16 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 168
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater


" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!


120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.


  #4  
Old September 10th 06, 04:34 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater


peter wrote:
" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!


120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.


Greetings,

I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
the other must be as well.

Please explain.

Thanks,
William

  #5  
Old September 10th 06, 04:41 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 94
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater




" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!

Part B:
The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
breaker?

Thank you for your time,
William


RBM (remove this) wrote:
You can't exceed 80%, so you could use 30 amp wire. A wall thermostat or
switch needs to disconnect both hot legs


Greetings,

You cannot exceed 80% of the wire rating or of the breaker rating? I
thought it was of the breaker rating? And my real question is: are
baseboard heaters considered intermittent loads?

Thanks,
William

  #6  
Old September 10th 06, 05:09 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,619
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater


" wrote in message
oups.com...

peter wrote:
" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!


120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and
touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative
to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.


Greetings,

I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
the other must be as well.

Do it if you want to; it is neither legal nor safe.
With a switch off, there is to be no voltage at a device. With a single
pole switch, someone working on the heater will be very surprised.
Your heaters could easily be on for hours at a time. Do you think that is
intermittent?

Do what you what, but don't hope that people will tell you it is okay.


  #7  
Old September 10th 06, 05:38 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

wrote:
peter wrote:
" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!

120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V relative to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.


Greetings,

I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
the other must be as well.

Please explain.

Thanks,
William


What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.

Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
even with the switch turned off.
  #8  
Old September 10th 06, 05:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

Rich256 wrote:
wrote:
peter wrote:
" wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!
120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and
touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by
the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V
relative to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.


Greetings,

I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
the other must be as well.

Please explain.

Thanks,
William


What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.

Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
even with the switch turned off.


My mind was somewhere else on that last statement!!! Thinking of the
outside of a socket I guess.
  #9  
Old September 10th 06, 06:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,834
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater


" wrote in message
The baseboard heaters are 2000W. If I put 2 of them on the same 20A
circuit I am at 83% of the rated breaker capacity (I am using standard
Siemens breakers). Do I really need to put each one on its own
breaker?


Yes, 83 % is too high.



You cannot exceed 80% of the wire rating or of the breaker rating? I
thought it was of the breaker rating?



If the wire is properly matched, it works out to both.

And my real question is: are
baseboard heaters considered intermittent loads?


What is intermittent about a heating element that maybe on from a few
minutes to hours at a time?

I'm glad I'm not your tenant. You seem to want to cheap out on this and
potentially cause a serious safety situation. Use the right double pole
switch, use the right wiring.


  #10  
Old September 10th 06, 06:08 PM posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,303
Default single or double pole switch for 240V baseboard heater

Rich256 wrote:

wrote:

peter wrote:

" wrote in message
oups.com...

Greetings,

Part A:
I have 240V baseboard heaters with the termostat inside the heater. I
want to put wall switches in the same place as the light switches so
that I can turn off the heaters when I leave the room without getting
down on the ground to adjust the thermostat. I know that a single pole
switch will work but I wanted to know if there was any reason the code
required a double pole switch? Thanks!

120V circuit has a neutral and a hot; if you stand in a bath tub and
touch
the two wires one by one, you will get shocked by the hot, and not by
the
neutral

240V circuit has no neutral; it has two hots (each one is 120V
relative to
ground). If you touch the two wires one by one, you get shocked twice.

If you switch off only one hot, then the heater wiring is still carrying
120V. This is potentially dangerous.



Greetings,

I fail to understand why it is dangerous for the wire to be carrying
120V into the heater. So what? The (optional add-in) integrated
thermostat only breaks one pole. Are you saying it is dangerous?
Based on your posting alone it appears that if one is dangerous then
the other must be as well.

Please explain.

Thanks,
William


What you are saying is true but I expect code requires a double pole.
Someone working on the unit would not depend on the thermostat to remove
all power but would most likely expect it to be removed by the switch.

Kind of like power to a lamp with a non polarized plug being plugged
into a switchable socket. It is possible for the lamp to have voltage
even with the switch turned off.


I take it you meant to say, "even with the switch ON THE LAMP turned off"

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"
 




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