My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me re-plumbed
the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper? Is one
preferred over the other?

Zootal wrote:
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me re-plumbed
the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper? Is one
preferred over the other?

For durability, I doubt there is much difference. Copper will corode
and CPVC won't but...

For ease of maintenance and making changes, it is CPVC hands down.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
ups.com...

Zootal wrote:
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me
re-plumbed
the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper? Is one
preferred over the other?

For durability, I doubt there is much difference. Copper will corode
and CPVC won't but...

For ease of maintenance and making changes, it is CPVC hands down.

Harry K


I've always used copper. Very durable and strong. If I have to change
something, I solder them together, ready to go, no waiting for glue to dry.
However, gluing is admittedly faster and easier then soldering, and modern
pvc glues dry in full strength in a few hours. How strong is cpvc? I'm
afraid I'll accidently hit the pipe and break it, or twisting it when I
thread a fitting on and break it. I keep thinking of PVC, which is
relatively brittle.

Well plastic wouldnt get ripped off!

My dad used to rent homes in phoenix, he had to go all plastic since
tenants would steal the copper pipes and everything else of value out
of the homes....

with todays high copper prices people are finding their gutters
downspouts and other copper stuff has grown feet and left the
building

Plastic is safe at least for now

The blue stuff is ready in a minute or so.

Hmmm...learn something new every day. Full pressure in a few minutes?



Again, only if it has been out in the sun a long time. People build
lawn furniture out of PVC

I've seen PVC chairs collapse. But it didn't break - it was just too thin,
and could not hold the weight.

"Zootal" wrote in message
news
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me
re-plumbed the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper?
Is one preferred over the other?


PVC gets brittle in time especially in sun light ( you should always paint
it) definitely never use it for air lines regardless of what any body says.
Now CPVC I have never used for water but have used it for chemical lines,
I'm not sure if it gets brittle over time. Myself I'll stick with copper but
there are situations plastic is better ( pools, chemical lines, waste from
soda machines ) This is pretty interesting
http://www.ppfahome.org/cpvc/faqcpvc.html

"Zootal" wrote in message
...

I've always used copper. Very durable and strong. If I have to change
something, I solder them together, ready to go, no waiting for glue to
dry. However, gluing is admittedly faster and easier then soldering, and
modern pvc glues dry in full strength in a few hours. How strong is cpvc?
I'm afraid I'll accidently hit the pipe and break it, or twisting it when
I thread a fitting on and break it. I keep thinking of PVC, which is
relatively brittle.


I've always used copper as well. In saying that however, I just had to
re-route water lines and install and aerator etc.... I found the selection
of copper fittings to be rather poor and the prices were outrageous. Have
you priced a 10' stick of 3/4 Type L recently? $34! And the fittings
are all running a few bucks on up (each). So I could definitely see the
advantages of CPVC given what appeared to be a better selection of fittings
and much, much cheaper. For the odd bit I do, I'll prolly stick with Cu
but if I were outfitting a whole house, I'd sure be looking at plastic!
Cheers,
cc

ps. I prolly just like copper cause of the torch and such.....just don't
get the same effect with a little stick with glue on it

I've been planning to re-plumb most of an old house we bought in my
home town for vacations, using pex products. My investigation so far
hasn't revealed much in the way of negatives about pex pipe. The Lowes
around here are stocking a good selection of Zurn brand pex pipe,
fittings and tools. BTW, Zurn now has a new tool, and new crimp rings,
so one needs only the one (expensive) tool to do 4 sizes of tubing.
The new tool is the kind that pinches an ear on the crimp ring, as
opposed to the tools that surround and squeeze the entire ring. That
means that it can be a bit smaller, and thus fit into some tighter
spaces. Ease of installation, resistance to freezing, and manifold
type of installation seem to be pluses to me. If anyone has had bad
luck with pex, I'm probably not the only one who would like to hear of
it. I'm getting ready to puchase the tools and supplies pretty soon.
Home Depot seems completely unaware of pex plumbing, and Menards home
centers do carry pex (Durapex), but perhaps not as complete a set as
that of Lowes. Thanks for any input.

Bates

I replaced most of my old rusty galvanized pipes under the crawl space
with oversized copper pipe when prices for copper hit rock bottom just
a few years back. But, I also used pex tubing for my radiant floor
system around the same date, due to concerns about concrete/copper
chemical reactions. Pex won't collect so much calcium/magnesium on the
interior of the pipe I understand either, so for long term plumbing
like the radiant floor, I had no choice.

I found the pex to be relatively easy to work with because fewer joints
are required. The tubing can bend around wide corners, and squeaking
is a thing of the past with this material. Be careful not to pinch the
hose when bending, or a weak spot will develop. If necessary, a little
heat will make the Pex rebound to new though. I used stainless steel
hose clamps and brass fitings for connections with the pex and haven't
found any problems. Heat the Pex slightly, and it will fit over the
barbed fitings, and then when cool fits pretty tight anyway. The new
fittings probably are better, but it's not a big deal. The only
problem with Pex that I've heard of is under very high temperature
situations. If your solar water flows through at temperatures above
180F, I'd be worried about a meltdown, but I run 140F through my system
all the time without concern. Copper won't face this high temp
problem, so I'd probably use copper for solar panel and hot water
heater connections.

As for using PVC or anything related to that inside the house, I
wouldn't do it. Outside, for irrigation lines, and maybe even for the
main water line leading to the house, yes, but a burst water pipe in
the wrong place is a real expensive nightmare to be avoided at almost
any cost. PVC degrades much faster in sunlight, but it does dry out
even in the dark, and becomes brittle over time regardless, and so
shouldn't be used inside the house. I still used soft copper tubing
for a recent water main to house connection. Even though it's buried
two feet down, I still worry that seismic or shovel action could crack
PVC.

If you can afford copper it, get oversized type L pipes though. I ran
type L 1-1/2" copper cold water and 3/4" hot water copper pipes under
my crawl space. The mainfold for the radiant floor system was 2" pipe.
I don't like water softeners, and I don't want calcium build-up to be
a problem in my lifetime in the main lines of the house system. It
also helps reduce water hammer and other strange sounds...But, given
copper prices today, PEX is the way to go most everywhere, except the
garden.

Bates wrote:
I've been planning to re-plumb most of an old house we bought in my
home town for vacations, using pex products. My investigation so far
hasn't revealed much in the way of negatives about pex pipe. The Lowes
around here are stocking a good selection of Zurn brand pex pipe,
fittings and tools. BTW, Zurn now has a new tool, and new crimp rings,
so one needs only the one (expensive) tool to do 4 sizes of tubing.
The new tool is the kind that pinches an ear on the crimp ring, as
opposed to the tools that surround and squeeze the entire ring. That
means that it can be a bit smaller, and thus fit into some tighter
spaces. Ease of installation, resistance to freezing, and manifold
type of installation seem to be pluses to me. If anyone has had bad
luck with pex, I'm probably not the only one who would like to hear of
it. I'm getting ready to puchase the tools and supplies pretty soon.
Home Depot seems completely unaware of pex plumbing, and Menards home
centers do carry pex (Durapex), but perhaps not as complete a set as
that of Lowes. Thanks for any input.

Bates

I forgot to add--No, copper will not corrode. There are some houses
with copper lines that are over a hundred years old and still working
fine. The Gothic cathedrals of Europe have copper roofs that are
nearly a thousand years old. It does however allow for build-up of
mineral deposits inside the hot water tubing, that can be a nuisance in
maybe 50 years or so, depending upon how bad your local water supply
is. Use plastic, copper hangers with brass screws, or wrap electrical
tape around the pipe if steel straps are used, as copper will produce
electrolysis and corrode other metals when in direct contact with them.

For durability, I doubt there is much difference. Copper will corode
and CPVC won't but...

For ease of maintenance and making changes, it is CPVC hands down.

"Alan" wrote in message
ps.com...
I forgot to add--No, copper will not corrode. There are some houses
with copper lines that are over a hundred years old and still working
fine. The Gothic cathedrals of Europe have copper roofs that are
nearly a thousand years old.

Certain water supplies have had a corrosive effect on copper. This is
mostly in the south western states. People have had problems after 20 years.

Seen the price of copper, lately?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Harry K" wrote in message
ups.com...

Zootal wrote:
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me
re-plumbed
the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper? Is
one
preferred over the other?

For durability, I doubt there is much difference. Copper will corode
and CPVC won't but...

For ease of maintenance and making changes, it is CPVC hands down.

Harry K

I have seen corroded copper.

If copper doesn't corrode, why do we have to sandscreen and wirebrush
it before we sweat?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Alan" wrote in message
ps.com...
I forgot to add--No, copper will not corrode.

My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me
re-plumbed the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to
copper? Is one preferred over the other?

I chose CPVC piping when I plumbed our house a couple of years ago.

I decided against copper because we have acidic water that can cause
pinhole leaks in the pipe over time. It also takes a bit of skill and
practice to solder copper fittings, and there's always a small risk of
starting a house fire with the torch. Copper pipe is also rather expensive
these days.

PEX was my second choice, but very few stores in my area stocked it. If I
needed to make an emergency repair or small addition, I may not be able to
find the pipe or fittings nearby. PEX also required a special crimping tool
that was rather expensive at the time.

In the end, I chose CPVC pipe. It won't corrode like copper, and doesn't
require any special tools to install. It's inexpensive, and widely
available at any home center or local hardware store. It's quick to
install, and very easy to work with.

Anthony

The builders use that plastic stuff because it's cheaper, and even a
Mexican can install it. Other than that, it has no real advantage over
copper. The slight flexability of copper may make it advantageous in
some circumstances. Both are fairly reliable, but I have my doubts
about threads on anything plastic. Obviously copper will cost more. I
would probably not mix the two types in a house.

On 9 Aug 2006 18:48:46 -0700, "Harry K"
wrote:


Zootal wrote:
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me re-plumbed
the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper? Is one
preferred over the other?

For durability, I doubt there is much difference. Copper will corode
and CPVC won't but...


But copper wont crack when someone bumps into it, CPVC will.
Copper wont sag between the hangers, CPVC does.
Copper dont shatter when a screw on fitting is over tightened, CPVC
does.
Copper dont make the hot water taste like plastic, CPVC does.

For ease of maintenance and making changes, it is CPVC hands down.


I dont consider waiting hours for the glue to dry to be "ease of
maintenance". Soldering is more work, but the pipes can be used a few
minutes after soldering. CPVC needs hours to dry securely and until
them, No Water".


Harry K

Zootal wrote:

The blue stuff is ready in a minute or so.

Hmmm...learn something new every day. Full pressure in a few minutes?


Yes, and not just the blue stuff. A big advantage of PVC/CPVC is the
ease of repair and modification. It is flexible enough that given a
few feet either side of the patch it can be cut and a new fitting
inserted. Can't do that with copper (easily).




Again, only if it has been out in the sun a long time. People build
lawn furniture out of PVC

I've seen PVC chairs collapse. But it didn't break - it was just too thin,
and could not hold the weight.

They were using the wrong schedule PVC then.

Harry K

" wrote in news:1155177742.860452.12310
@q16g2000cwq.googlegroups.com:

Well plastic wouldnt get ripped off!

My dad used to rent homes in phoenix, he had to go all plastic since
tenants would steal the copper pipes and everything else of value out
of the homes....

Yeah, and the liberal judges overlook it, because all landlords are evil!!


with todays high copper prices people are finding their gutters
downspouts and other copper stuff has grown feet and left the
building

Plastic is safe at least for now

wrote in message
ups.com...
The builders use that plastic stuff because it's cheaper, and even a
Mexican can install it. Other than that, it has no real advantage over
copper. The slight flexability of copper may make it advantageous in
some circumstances. Both are fairly reliable, but I have my doubts
about threads on anything plastic. Obviously copper will cost more. I
would probably not mix the two types in a house.


The garden hose piping or also called PEX. is exactly as you said I'll
leave out the Mex. stuff , it's nothing but low end crap a money maker for
the contractor no real; skill to install it just drill a go.

"Zootal" wrote in message
news
My house has cpvc water pipes - the person who owned it before me
re-plumbed the house and this is what he used. Is this superior to copper?
Is one preferred over the other?


As far as drain lines go, nothing's better than plastic. (other than the
need to provide more support than you would for copper/iron).

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:13:15 -0500, wrote:

U/V damaged white PVC gerts brittle but that is
usually after about 10 years in the Florida sun. People use PVC pipe
for guides on boat trailers and boat lifts here in South Florida. If
it was as brittle as you say it would snap off the fist time the wind
caught your boat. That is not what happens.

I have to smile. Here in NM, PVC lasts about 8-12 months exposed!

The garden hose isn't the same material as PEX. Use Google to find the
PEX vendors and learn about the stuff, it's not a third-world product,
but is extensively used in radiant floor heating and in Europe. It is
what is used in many new houses now, not that this recommends its use
elsewhere. I'm curious about the CVPVC. I wouldn't use PVC inside my
house though, that's for sure. I realize that people put plastic
everywhere these days, but the long term outlook for lots of it doesn't
look good to me. As for the pinhole problems in copper, I can see from
comments posted that certain water conditions apparently are a problem,
but fortunately this isn't the case in my area. But, a lot of type M
copper is simply too thin, and I would not be surprised if the grade of
copper is the real problem in some of the cases mentioned. I dug up
recently a length of 1" copper in my garden, a part of a 40 year old
irrigation system for pumping water from the San Joaquin River, was
found to be in such excellent condition, that I may put it back into
service. If it had been plastic, my shovel would have cracked it
during removal. As for the pipe sizing issue, I'll agree that delivery
pressure and volume issues have to be considered and tested for the job
to be done right.



Sacramento Dave wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
The builders use that plastic stuff because it's cheaper, and even a
Mexican can install it. Other than that, it has no real advantage over
copper. The slight flexability of copper may make it advantageous in
some circumstances. Both are fairly reliable, but I have my doubts
about threads on anything plastic. Obviously copper will cost more. I
would probably not mix the two types in a house.


The garden hose piping or also called PEX. is exactly as you said I'll
leave out the Mex. stuff , it's nothing but low end crap a money maker for
the contractor no real; skill to install it just drill a go.

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
news

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:13:15 -0500, wrote:

U/V damaged white PVC gerts brittle but that is
usually after about 10 years in the Florida sun. People use PVC pipe
for guides on boat trailers and boat lifts here in South Florida. If
it was as brittle as you say it would snap off the fist time the wind
caught your boat. That is not what happens.

I have to smile. Here in NM, PVC lasts about 8-12 months exposed!


I lived in Las Vegas for 15 years. PVC would last about 1 summer in the sun,
and then that was it.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:16:33 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:


I have to smile. Here in NM, PVC lasts about 8-12 months exposed!
How do they plumb swimming pools?

Beats me. Never looked. Most pools are below ground so I'd imagine the
piping is below ground.
I'm really going from my own experience of where I've left a couple sticks
of the stuff outside in the weather and within 10 months or so, it was
pretty brown (from white).

wrote in message
...

I guess it's a good thing the sun doesn't shine in Florida because
most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white
PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.

Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us
that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense.
That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer
capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to many
others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here. With
that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in the
plastic's demise as well.
Cheers,
cc

wrote:

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:13:15 -0500, wrote:

But copper wont crack when someone bumps into it, CPVC will.
Copper wont sag between the hangers, CPVC does.
Copper dont shatter when a screw on fitting is over tightened, CPVC
does.
Copper dont make the hot water taste like plastic, CPVC does.

Your union rep teach you that?

You can take a piece of CPVC pipe and pound it flat with a hammer and
not shatter it. U/V damaged white PVC gerts brittle but that is
usually after about 10 years in the Florida sun. People use PVC pipe
for guides on boat trailers and boat lifts here in South Florida. If
it was as brittle as you say it would snap off the fist time the wind
caught your boat. That is not what happens.

I'm in Arizona, and the PVC pipe I've seen turns brittle a lot earlier
than ten years, unless it's covered with white latex paint, and even
PVC conduit made to be UV resistant starts showing brown-purple spots
after a year. About the only PVC that seems impervious to sunlight
here is the kind used for siding and rain gutters.

Why isn't CPVC used more for plumbing? It seems like the perfect pipe
to me, except when for resistance against gophers gnawing on it.

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

I guess it's a good thing the sun doesn't shine in Florida because
most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white
PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.

Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us
that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense.
That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer
capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to
many others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here.
With that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in
the plastic's demise as well.
Cheers,
cc

Naw, PVC is broken down by UV exposure. You are probably right, at 5800
feet the amount of UV reaching the pipe is much more than it is at sea
level - anyone who mountain climbs knows this. I've got 2nd degree burns
from not respecting how much more UV exposure you get at the top of even a
moderately tall mountain.

It's my limited understanding that the PVC is worn out by the UV radiation
reacting with the chlorine in the pipe - something that CPVC as much of due
to how it's processed. But I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I
know that PEX is, PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few
others.

I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I know that PEX is,
PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few others.

The grey PVC pipe they make for electrical conduit has UV inhibitors. It is
designed for outside use and holds up nicely.

I guess the reason they don't bother putting the UV inhibitor in normal
plumbing pipe, is because it usually doesn't sit out in the sun. Most of
the time it's buried underground or under a floor in insulation.

Anthony

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:44:55 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

I guess it's a good thing the sun doesn't shine in Florida because
most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white
PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.

Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us
that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense.
That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer
capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to
many others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here.
With that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in
the plastic's demise as well.
Cheers,
cc

Naw, PVC is broken down by UV exposure. You are probably right, at 5800
feet the amount of UV reaching the pipe is much more than it is at sea
level - anyone who mountain climbs knows this. I've got 2nd degree burns
from not respecting how much more UV exposure you get at the top of even a
moderately tall mountain.

It's my limited understanding that the PVC is worn out by the UV radiation
reacting with the chlorine in the pipe - something that CPVC as much of due
to how it's processed. But I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I
know that PEX is, PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few
others.


Simple solution. Put all plastic pipe inside of copper pipe, use the
next size up in the copper. Like 1/2" cpvc inside 3/4" copper.
Oh, wait a minute, soldering the copper would melt the cpvc. You have
to use steel pipe instead.

wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:44:55 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

I guess it's a good thing the sun doesn't shine in Florida because
most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white
PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.
Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us
that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense.
That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer
capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to
many others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here.
With that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in
the plastic's demise as well.
Cheers,
cc

Naw, PVC is broken down by UV exposure. You are probably right, at 5800
feet the amount of UV reaching the pipe is much more than it is at sea
level - anyone who mountain climbs knows this. I've got 2nd degree burns
from not respecting how much more UV exposure you get at the top of even a
moderately tall mountain.

It's my limited understanding that the PVC is worn out by the UV radiation
reacting with the chlorine in the pipe - something that CPVC as much of due
to how it's processed. But I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I
know that PEX is, PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few
others.


Simple solution. Put all plastic pipe inside of copper pipe, use the
next size up in the copper. Like 1/2" cpvc inside 3/4" copper.
Oh, wait a minute, soldering the copper would melt the cpvc. You have
to use steel pipe instead.


You're a hoot! But why would you solder the copper
pipe?

George E. Cawthon wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:44:55 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...

I guess it's a good thing the sun doesn't shine in Florida because
most people with a well have pipes outside and they are always white
PVC. Explodig pipe is not a huge problem.
Yeah, all the well pipes here are underground. It's the altitude for us
that does it. At 5800 ft above sea level, the sun is pretty intense.
That's why a number of folks refer to Albuquerque as the "skin cancer
capital of the world". I've lived in a number of places, travelled to
many others, and have never felt the sun more intense than it is here.
With that comes extreme dryness as well so that may be playing a part in
the plastic's demise as well.
Cheers,
cc

Naw, PVC is broken down by UV exposure. You are probably right, at 5800
feet the amount of UV reaching the pipe is much more than it is at sea
level - anyone who mountain climbs knows this. I've got 2nd degree burns
from not respecting how much more UV exposure you get at the top of even a
moderately tall mountain.

It's my limited understanding that the PVC is worn out by the UV radiation
reacting with the chlorine in the pipe - something that CPVC as much of due
to how it's processed. But I think all plastic is harmed by UV radiation, I
know that PEX is, PVC certainly is, nylon not so much, and I'm sure a few
others.


Simple solution. Put all plastic pipe inside of copper pipe, use the
next size up in the copper. Like 1/2" cpvc inside 3/4" copper.
Oh, wait a minute, soldering the copper would melt the cpvc. You have
to use steel pipe instead.


You're a hoot! But why would you solder the copper
pipe?

Why to keep all those dangerouse emissions the CPVC puts out from
escaping of course.

Harry K