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-   -   Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater? (https://www.diybanter.com/home-repair/169393-can-i-put-timer-basic-gas-water-heater.html)

peter July 16th 06 09:31 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?



HeatMan July 16th 06 10:22 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having

a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Yep.

I did it once and it cost (at that time) more money than you could have
possible saved over the life of the tank.



EXT July 16th 06 11:50 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having
a bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat.


That is NOT a bare copper wire, it is a capillary tube that conducts a
liquid that is heated in the pilot light and uses the pressure to operate
the valve.



Larry Jaques July 17th 06 03:50 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:22:23 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"HeatMan" quickly quoth:


"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having

a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Yep.

I did it once and it cost (at that time) more money than you could have
possible saved over the life of the tank.


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat. Alternatively, you could use a standard lamp timer
with a relay for the same purpose. Piece of cake, but you're right,
it might not save a lot of money.

(What's your reason for doing this, Peter?)


--
I am beginning to learn that it is the sweet, simple things of life
which are the real ones after all. --Laura Ingalls Wilder (1867-1957)

Mark Lloyd July 17th 06 04:12 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:22:23 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"HeatMan" quickly quoth:


"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having

a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Yep.

I did it once and it cost (at that time) more money than you could have
possible saved over the life of the tank.


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat. Alternatively, you could use a standard lamp timer
with a relay for the same purpose. Piece of cake, but you're right,
it might not save a lot of money.

(What's your reason for doing this, Peter?)


If you want to do this, an appliance module is not the best choice.
Use a "universal module" which can be set to act as just a relay. No
external relay needed. Note that this module can be a power source as
well. Be sure to read the instructions.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Pete C. July 17th 06 04:21 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:22:23 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"HeatMan" quickly quoth:


"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having
a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Yep.

I did it once and it cost (at that time) more money than you could have
possible saved over the life of the tank.


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat. Alternatively, you could use a standard lamp timer
with a relay for the same purpose. Piece of cake, but you're right,
it might not save a lot of money.

(What's your reason for doing this, Peter?)


If you want to do this, an appliance module is not the best choice.
Use a "universal module" which can be set to act as just a relay. No
external relay needed. Note that this module can be a power source as
well. Be sure to read the instructions.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


Apparently you all don't read very well. The OP's question was regarding
a water heater, not a furnace / boiler, and worse yet it was a non
electric gas fired unit that used a capillary tube type thermostat
mechanism.

The only way to put a timer on this unit is basically to replace the
entire thermostat and gas valve unit with electrically controlled ones
i.e. buy a new water heater of the appropriate type.

Pete C.

Edwin Pawlowski July 17th 06 04:23 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by
having
a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat.


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat. Alternatively, you could use a standard lamp timer
with a relay for the same purpose. Piece of cake, but you're right,
it might not save a lot of money.

(What's your reason for doing this, Peter?)


If you want to do this, an appliance module is not the best choice.
Use a "universal module" which can be set to act as just a relay. No
external relay needed. Note that this module can be a power source as
well. Be sure to read the instructions.


How do you do it on a unit that has no electricity going to it? I'd like to
see the wiring diagram.



Larry Jaques July 17th 06 04:28 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:12:51 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark
Lloyd quickly quoth:

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:50:47 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat.


If you want to do this, an appliance module is not the best choice.
Use a "universal module" which can be set to act as just a relay. No
external relay needed. Note that this module can be a power source as
well. Be sure to read the instructions.


Excellent. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into those.


--
Simplicity doesn't mean to live in misery and poverty. You have what you
need and you don't want what you don't need. --Charan Singh (1916-1990)

Don Young July 17th 06 04:42 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having
a bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat.


That is NOT a bare copper wire, it is a capillary tube that conducts a
liquid that is heated in the pilot light and uses the pressure to operate
the valve.

It could be either a tube for pressure operation or the outer conductor of a
coaxial wire pair. The wires are used for thermocouple type sensors and
electromagnet operation of the pilot section of the valve. Both types were
common at one time.

Don Young



[email protected] July 17th 06 05:32 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
A "hack" method would be to get a heavy duty RC servo, couple that to
the thermostat such that when energized the servo would spin the
thermostat knob to pilot light only, then spin the knob back to the
appropriate heat setting when desired.

Obviously one would need a way to energize the servo, but that should
be a simple task. (via the parallel port of a PC comes to mind) AFA
energy savings, (if that is your intent) it may be minimal. A well
insulated hater heater in a conditioned space (basement) does not lose
much heat over a 24 hour period. Any heat that is lost helps maintain
temp in the area.

Anyway good luck with whatever you want to do.


lp13-30 July 17th 06 06:32 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
Do a search for "Qwaterback" made by Paragon. As a previous poster
mentioned, it is a servo type thing that mounts to the thermostat, that
turns it up/down in response to the timer. I picked one up (new in the
box) at a yard sale some time back, and gave it to a friend since my w/h
is electric. For some reason, the instructions specifically say not to
use it on a propane unit, which is what he has, so he did not use it.
Next time I talk to him, I'll ask if he still has it. Larry


Tony Hwang July 17th 06 06:33 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
peter wrote:
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by having a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Hi,
What does it suppose to accomplish?

HeyBub July 17th 06 03:48 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

How do you do it on a unit that has no electricity going to it? I'd
like to see the wiring diagram.


Electrically-operated valve to the main gas supply should do it.



Grandpa July 17th 06 04:27 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
HeyBub wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

How do you do it on a unit that has no electricity going to it? I'd
like to see the wiring diagram.



Electrically-operated valve to the main gas supply should do it.


But then you'd need an electrically activated pilot light - additional
expense.

--
Grandpa

What is that dripping from my fingers?
Why it looks like time.

[email protected] July 17th 06 04:35 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
probably easier to add more insulation since timer only effects standby
loses.

minize standby loses by superinsulating


MDT at Paragon Home Inspections, LLC July 17th 06 05:07 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
"Gas water heater timers".... boy, those go back a *ways*.

These were availaible from at least two different manufacturers, AMF
used to make such a device called a "QWATERBACK" - I remembered the
name (took a couple of days) - and GOOGLE found one still in the box,
on eBay, if anyone is wondering what they looked like:

http://tinyurl.com/jeztl

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

I have no idea how - or if - this device was effective or safe.

Or if it would be considered an acceptable modification by your WH's
manufacturer.

Or by your local building department.

Or your insurance company.

My guess would be that the answer is to all three is no , and if I
found one of these during an inspection I'd recommend it's
disconnection unless all three approvals could be confirmed - and even
then, how would you find a "qualified person" to perform an
inspection or repair of such an installation?

Michael Thomas
Paragon Home Inspection, LLC
Chicago, IL
mdtATparagoninspectsDOTcom
847-475-5668


Mark Lloyd July 17th 06 06:49 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:48:15 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

How do you do it on a unit that has no electricity going to it? I'd
like to see the wiring diagram.


Electrically-operated valve to the main gas supply should do it.


And how does the timer relight the pilot after reconnecting the gas?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

[email protected] July 18th 06 12:03 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
my old water heater developed a leak inside that put out the pilot. i
truned off the gas and water, near 24 hours later i turned on the water
long enough for a shower, the water was nice and hot.

a couple hours later in installed the new tank.

turning the burner off isnt going to save much at all


HeatMan July 18th 06 01:44 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by

having
a bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat.


That is NOT a bare copper wire, it is a capillary tube that conducts a
liquid that is heated in the pilot light and uses the pressure to operate
the valve.


Wrong.

Good thought, though.

The Flame at the tip makes two different metals generate a very small amount
of electricity, in the milli-volt range. That electrical current is enough
to hold the pilot solenoid open. It won't open the pilot solenoid, that's
why you have to push the button when lighting the pilot.




HeatMan July 18th 06 01:45 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:22:23 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"HeatMan" quickly quoth:


"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by

having
a
bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat. The same way some air conditioner works. It also uses a

manual
pilot light (you have to light the pilot light manually if the gas was
turned off and on).

Is it possible to add a timer to this kind of water heater?


Yep.

I did it once and it cost (at that time) more money than you could have
possible saved over the life of the tank.


Nowadays you could do it with your computer and some X-10 gear. Run a
relay from the X-10 appliance module to interrupt the power-on line
from the tstat. Alternatively, you could use a standard lamp timer
with a relay for the same purpose. Piece of cake, but you're right,
it might not save a lot of money.

I beleive the WH he's talking about is the standard tank-type unit that uses
no electricity to operate.


(What's your reason for doing this, Peter?)


--
I am beginning to learn that it is the sweet, simple things of life
which are the real ones after all. --Laura Ingalls Wilder (1867-1957)




HeatMan July 18th 06 01:46 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
Spark igniter...

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:48:15 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

How do you do it on a unit that has no electricity going to it? I'd
like to see the wiring diagram.


Electrically-operated valve to the main gas supply should do it.


And how does the timer relight the pilot after reconnecting the gas?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin




m Ransley July 18th 06 01:46 AM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
Even if you could do it you will save little, you will only reheat
whatever heat it needs to getwarm again, to realy save get a gas
tankless water heater like Rinnai, Takagi or Bosch.


Mark Lloyd July 18th 06 04:28 PM

Can I put a timer on a basic gas water heater?
 
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:44:19 -0400, "HeatMan"
wrote:


"EXT" wrote in message
tanews.com...

"peter" wrote in message
news:vuwug.5313$Ss2.4793@trnddc01...
I have a gas water heater that doesn't use electricity. It works by

having
a bare copper wire conduct temperature out of the water tank into the
thermostat.


That is NOT a bare copper wire, it is a capillary tube that conducts a
liquid that is heated in the pilot light and uses the pressure to operate
the valve.


Wrong.

Good thought, though.

The Flame at the tip makes two different metals generate a very small amount
of electricity, in the milli-volt range. That electrical current is enough
to hold the pilot solenoid open. It won't open the pilot solenoid, that's
why you have to push the button when lighting the pilot.


The current is generated by a difference in temperature. A difference
that won't be there when the pilot has been off and needs to be
relighted. You need to hold the button down until the end of the
thermocouple (the one in the flame) warms up enough for it to generate
enough current.


--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin


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