We have an admiral AC unit. It's pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
plug. I assumed the wall socket was grounded as it is 3 prong, but the
manual says have an electrician very that. My mother is an old widow
and doesn't have alot of money. Is there a way I can determine this ?
The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch if I recall correctly, then it makes a noise and the green
light is back on and you can run the unit. The test and reset switchs
are on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to trip when
it's not running. She has been using it since last summer and it seems
to work fine otherwise. The manual however seems to indicate it
shouldn't trip.

surf wrote:
We have an admiral AC unit. It's pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
plug. I assumed the wall socket was grounded as it is 3 prong, but the
manual says have an electrician very that. My mother is an old widow
and doesn't have alot of money. Is there a way I can determine this ?
The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch if I recall correctly, then it makes a noise and the
green light is back on and you can run the unit. The test and reset
switchs are on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to
trip when it's not running. She has been using it since last summer
and it seems to work fine otherwise. The manual however seems to
indicate it shouldn't trip.

That sounds like your AC is plugged into a GFI. Normally I would not
suggest doing that, in part due to exactly what you are seeing.

Where is the A/C located? Is it in a kitchen or bath?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"surf" wrote in message
ups.com...

We have an admiral AC unit. It's pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
plug. I assumed the wall socket was grounded as it is 3 prong, but the
manual says have an electrician very that. My mother is an old widow
and doesn't have alot of money. Is there a way I can determine this ?
The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch if I recall correctly, then it makes a noise and the green
light is back on and you can run the unit. The test and reset switchs
are on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to trip when
it's not running. She has been using it since last summer and it seems
to work fine otherwise. The manual however seems to indicate it
shouldn't trip.

From the description, you have a GFCI receptacle. It is needed for certain
uses, normally outdoor, kitchen, bathrooms where electric appliances are
used near water. They sometimes trip out with appliances, even if there is
not a ground fault.

To answer your first question, if it is that type of receptacle, yes, it is
grounded. You can buy inexpensive plug in test unit that will tell you that
it is grounded.

The tripping you are getting my be from another receptacle, downstream, on
the same circuit. In my house, the bathrooms and an outside receptacle were
all protected by the same GFCI, If you have a similar situation, the
problem may well be at another location. With a little investigation on
your part, you may be able to find the problem and eliminate it without an
electrician. First, find out what all is on that circuit. With a helper,
plug a light in and have someone shut the breaker off to see if the light
goes out. Then find out what other receptacles are on that circuit the same
way. Could be mom has a defective hair dryer plugged in someplace and it
tripping it.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
surf wrote:
...AC ... pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
...assumed the wall socket was grounded ...can determine this ?

The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch ...on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to
trip when it's not running. ...

That sounds like your AC is plugged into a GFI. Normally I would not
suggest doing that, in part due to exactly what you are seeing.

Where is the A/C located? Is it in a kitchen or bath?
....

Agree it sounds like it's in an external GFCI unit. To OP, reason
asked about the kitchen bath is that GFCI is req'd by new code for
them. An A/C is heavy load and GFCIs are very sensitive so I'm
guessing it's tripping it occasionally when it tries to restart before
the compressor has been off long or when something else on the circuit
may be on at the same time.

To check the outlet, remove the socket from the wall (carefully or
better turn the breaker off first) and see if the third wire is
connected to the ground terminal of the plug. One could also go to the
service panel and remove the cover and see if there's a ground wire on
corresponding to that breaker (again, of course, turn the whole panel
off first).

There are some plug-in-the-wall circuit testers but I have to honestly
say I've never used one and don't know just how reliable they are for
testing for the ground connection.

In general, though, if the house is mid-60s or later, chances are good
(and better the newer, pretty rapidly) it was wired w/ ground
initially. 50s or earlier, chances diminish rapidly the other way
unless it has been upgraded.

Joseph Meehan wrote:

surf wrote:

We have an admiral AC unit. It's pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
plug. I assumed the wall socket was grounded as it is 3 prong, but the
manual says have an electrician very that. My mother is an old widow
and doesn't have alot of money. Is there a way I can determine this ?
The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch if I recall correctly, then it makes a noise and the
green light is back on and you can run the unit. The test and reset
switchs are on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to
trip when it's not running. She has been using it since last summer
and it seems to work fine otherwise. The manual however seems to
indicate it shouldn't trip.


That sounds like your AC is plugged into a GFI. Normally I would not
suggest doing that, in part due to exactly what you are seeing.

Where is the A/C located? Is it in a kitchen or bath?


The OP clearly stated that the test and reset switches were on the PLUG,
like the one's I see used on hair dryers in recent years.

If it IS a CFCI plug, and the receptical it's plugged into DOES have a
ground which gets connected to the case of the AC through a ground
conductor in the cord, it's entirely possible that after running the AC
a while condensation occuring inside the unit could create leakage to
ground and trip the GFCI.

Even if the receptical doesn't have a valid ground, it's still possible
that condensation and dripping water outside could cause enough leakage
to trip the GFCI.

Methinks that problem is going to be a bitch to find and correct, and
hiring professional help to do that will prolly cost a lot more than if
the OP just purchases a new window AC for his mom.

If it was me, and there was an equipment grounding conductor in the AC's
power cord, I'd just verify that the receptical was properly grounded
and then chop off that GFCI plug and replace it with a standard grounded
plug. But that's me, and I'm not suggesting the OP does it, 'cause his
skills are as yet undefined.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."

According to Joseph Meehan :
surf wrote:
We have an admiral AC unit. It's pluged into a 3 prong wall socket
plug. I assumed the wall socket was grounded as it is 3 prong, but the
manual says have an electrician very that. My mother is an old widow
and doesn't have alot of money. Is there a way I can determine this ?
The unit resets itself after a couple of days, that is it shuts off,
the green light on the plug turns off and you have to hit the test and
reset switch if I recall correctly, then it makes a noise and the
green light is back on and you can run the unit. The test and reset
switchs are on the plug that goes into the wall socket. It seems to
trip when it's not running. She has been using it since last summer
and it seems to work fine otherwise. The manual however seems to
indicate it shouldn't trip.

That sounds like your AC is plugged into a GFI. Normally I would not
suggest doing that, in part due to exactly what you are seeing.

The wording above implies that the GFI is _part_ of the A/C (a GFI
plug). Has anybody seen one of these? I haven't seen one on an
A/C (but on other devices certainly). This may be common in
"portable" A/Cs that rely on ducting to vent the hot air rather
than "thru-the-wall" mounted units.

Which implies that either the AC itself is periodically
throwing (probably minor) ground faults or the GFI is getting
tired/broken. If it trips when the unit isn't running, a ground
fault is likely condensation moisture in the unit (eg: on the
switch).

This is likely _entirely_ independent of whether the third prong
is really grounded or not.

Where is the A/C located? Is it in a kitchen or bath?

That'd suggest moisture problems in the unit. Checking to
ensure that the unit is "sloped" properly towards the drain
is a good idea. Also check to make sure that air flow
inside the unit thru where the wires/switches/controls are
isn't restricted.

The OP wants to test the ground. It probably has no bearing
on the GFI issue. But if the OP still wants to test it,
a cheap neon bulb tester between the ground socket and the hot
side of the outlet (mostly likely the narrow blade side) will
light up as a first approximation of a useful ground, and only
costs a few dollars.

I say "first approximation". If it lights up, it's almost
definately good enough to trip the GFI on a fault in the AC.
But it may not be good enough to trip the breaker if the
fault occurs ahead of the GFI (or the GFI refuses to trip).
Testing that isn't for the inexperienced (or those not
possessing much more expensive test gear).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to dpb :

There are some plug-in-the-wall circuit testers but I have to honestly
say I've never used one and don't know just how reliable they are for
testing for the ground connection.

Three-light plug or neon testers are sufficient to tell you
that a ground _exists_ (in the former, the two green lights but not
the red one light up), but not how "good" the ground it is. If
they light up appropriately, the ground is almost guaranteed to be
good enough to trip a GFCI. But it's nowhere near a certainty that
a hot-ground short would trip the breaker.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Jeff Wisnia :
Methinks that problem is going to be a bitch to find and correct, and
hiring professional help to do that will prolly cost a lot more than if
the OP just purchases a new window AC for his mom.

It might just need a good cleaning.

If it was me, and there was an equipment grounding conductor in the AC's
power cord, I'd just verify that the receptical was properly grounded
and then chop off that GFCI plug and replace it with a standard grounded
plug. But that's me, and I'm not suggesting the OP does it, 'cause his
skills are as yet undefined.

That'd be a very last resort. I don't like mysterious ground faults,
and if the ground is the slightest bit dubious (not able to sink well
over 20A), this is a disaster waiting to happen if there's no GFCI.

If I was convinced the GFCI was going bad, I'd hack off the GFCI
plug and replace it with a regular plug. _Then_ either put a GFCI
outlet in place of the existing receptacle, or, get a (short!)
large-gauge wire GFCI extension cord or GFCI'd power bar and plug
the A/C into that.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Edwin Pawlowski :

From the description, you have a GFCI receptacle.

Actually, a GFCI _plug_ on the A/C cord.

It is needed for certain
uses, normally outdoor, kitchen, bathrooms where electric appliances are
used near water. They sometimes trip out with appliances, even if there is
not a ground fault.

There does not seem to be much evidence of that happening with appliances
unless they really do have a fault.

To answer your first question, if it is that type of receptacle, yes, it is
grounded.

Uh, not really. GFCI outlets are a legal substitute for grounding
with old circuits that have no ground. The GFCI doesn't create one -
it provides alternate protection.

If the house was constructed prior to about the mid-late 60s,
it probably doesn't have a ground (or at least, not a very good one).

Since this isn't a GFCI receptacle, the only "downstream" is the A/C
itself.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

Three-light plug or neon testers are sufficient to tell you
that a ground _exists_ (in the former, the two green lights but not
the red one light up), but not how "good" the ground it is. If
they light up appropriately, the ground is almost guaranteed to be
good enough to trip a GFCI. But it's nowhere near a certainty that
a hot-ground short would trip the breaker.

So how do you test how good the ground is?
Connect a hair dryer across hot and ground (instead of neutral) and see if
it works just as well? Obviously this test would not work on a GFCI
receptacle.

According to peter :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

Three-light plug or neon testers are sufficient to tell you
that a ground _exists_ (in the former, the two green lights but not
the red one light up), but not how "good" the ground it is. If
they light up appropriately, the ground is almost guaranteed to be
good enough to trip a GFCI. But it's nowhere near a certainty that
a hot-ground short would trip the breaker.

So how do you test how good the ground is?
Connect a hair dryer across hot and ground (instead of neutral) and see if
it works just as well? Obviously this test would not work on a GFCI
receptacle.

That'd work, but a 100W lightbulb on a pigtail, looking for full
brightness is a bit safer and somewhat easier to judge the result.

Either way, pull it out _immediately_ if it's noticably dim or begins to
flicker, and keep your eyes and nose open for smoke.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to surf :

I didn't realize this was this complicated.

It isn't, really. Main problem is that we can't _see_ the
situation, and we have to grill you for details you didn't
think to include.

That unit was plugged into a different type of wall plug that has the
slits going horizontal instead of vertical.

That means the old unit was 240 volts (almost a 100% certainty).
You _cannot_ use the circuit for the new A/C as it is now. It'd
go boom!

You _could_ get the 240V circuit converted to 120V. It's
easy - many of us here could do it in 20 minutes for about
$1-3 in parts (a new receptacle).

However, given your apparent level of expertise, you should hire
someone to do this. It involves replacing the receptacle with a
standard 120V one, and making a slight change in the breaker panel.

If you can find a electrician _nearby_ willing to do this for
less than $150 or $200, I'd jump at the opportunity if I were you. Most
electricians wouldn't find a job that small worth their travel time.

Handymen would do it for less, but I'd be worried that they wouldn't
know anymore on how to do it than you...

If you have a _good_ DIY friend familiar with electrical work,
a case of beer might do it, but who knows how much they know?

She has been running it alot and it seemed to work OK except I guess it
trips every few days when it's not on. Iooked at the manual more
closely, it's says if the unit is more than 7.5 amps and 115 volts it
needs it's own circuit, but it's on the circuit with the small TV,
cordless phone, and bathroom. It says 11 amp/115 volts on the side of
the unit. If it remains this way, is there a possible serious problem
or what could happen ?

Very remote possibility. If the A/C cycles while she's using a hair
dryer, it should trip the breaker. Repeated trips may lead to a risk
of fire.

The breaker isn't tripping. It's remotely possible something else
on that circuit is triggering the GFCI, despite not being "downstream"
of the GFCI.

Converting that 240V circuit would give you the dedicated 120V circuit
you should have for the A/C and better isolate the GFCI from everything else.

This should be done whether or not the A/C turns out to be going bad
and needs to be replaced.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

peter posted for all of us...
I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message

Three-light plug or neon testers are sufficient to tell you
that a ground _exists_ (in the former, the two green lights but not
the red one light up), but not how "good" the ground it is. If
they light up appropriately, the ground is almost guaranteed to be
good enough to trip a GFCI. But it's nowhere near a certainty that
a hot-ground short would trip the breaker.

So how do you test how good the ground is?
Connect a hair dryer across hot and ground (instead of neutral) and see if
it works just as well? Obviously this test would not work on a GFCI
receptacle.



Ideal Sure-test
--
Tekkie