I have been reading for hours on line and then I found this site :-) I
need help with terminology, wire guages needed and a bit of how to.
This is long so only the brave please continue.

The house was built in 1900 and half of it was rewired before I bought
it. I am putting in a a second kitchen so my divorced daughter can have
her own space and we don't tear each others hair out. The back part
where I want to put in the kitchen has the old wiring with ceramic
tubes in the joists. They make pretty good whistles if you blow just
right :-)

The new power supply to the house is about 10-12 feet away from the new
kitchen room and it has a master shut off for the house and the wiring
is covered in conduit. Is this the Panel or the sub panel?

I need to install a new box with breakers for this kitchen inside the
house. How do I add up the Amps needed in order to buy the breaker?
There will be an oven, separate stove top, microwave, dishwasher,
garbage disposal, 2 ceiling fans w/lights with ceramic heaters, 2
indoor lights, 2 outdoor lights, fridge ( is that 110?), airvent
extraction fan, thermostat for the underfloor heating and 9 x 110 power
outlets for kitchen appliances a TV and plug in electric heaters (there
is now forced air in the back of the house) a washer and a dryer. I
think the amps are different for all of these and does it depend on the
watt consumption?

Should I run all of the wiring in conduit or just the 220 wiring? Only
the stove top, oven and dryer are 220 right?
What guage wire should I run for the lighting, outlets, 220, is the
fridge line a different guage. I should use outdoor wiring for the
outside light ? What guage?

I got a quote for $2500 and that's probably very good but I can't
afford it so I was planning on installing all the wiring up to the new
breaker panel and then asking an electrician to hook it up to the
mains. That sounds scary to me

For the plumbing I there was a old sink back there and I pulled up the
floor and it's got galvanized pipe and cast iron drains going into the
main drain. I think this was the original kitchen part of the house.
Is there an adapter that will let me connect black plastic drain into
the cast iron drain? Is there an adapter that will let me connect to
the galvanized supply lines for hot and cold.? What kind of pipe
should I use for these new lines? Should I run a separate drain from
each of the sink and the dishwasher to the main drain or can they go in
the same drain from the wall over to the main drain? Is there any kind
of a valve I can put in that will help with water pressure so when I
have the dishwasher on I can still use the sink? Do I need a separate
ventless thing for each of the sink and the dishwasher or can they
share one? Do I need any drain valves to prevent "backwash"? I was
planning on adding a garden tap off the cold water supply into the
kitchen is there anything special you have to do to make sure it
doesn't act as a cold conductor and freeze all the pipes? The walls
are wood siding like a shed so it gets cold in there. Can I take the
outside tap directly off the sink line near the wall or should I use a
three way supply to each of these 1. sink, 2. dishwasher, 3. outside
tap from the existing supply line? Are there any questions I forgot to
ask?

Lots of questions and yes I know I am certifiable. Please respond.

you could get her a job on a different shift from yours and just share
the kitchen.
you need to update the electrical service and update the 100 year old
knob and tube wiring, as you already know. see electrical faq at:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/




Mulan wrote:
I have been reading for hours on line and then I found this site :-) I
need help with terminology, wire guages needed and a bit of how to.
This is long so only the brave please continue.

The house was built in 1900 and half of it was rewired before I bought
it. I am putting in a a second kitchen so my divorced daughter can have
her own space and we don't tear each others hair out. The back part
where I want to put in the kitchen has the old wiring with ceramic
tubes in the joists. They make pretty good whistles if you blow just
right :-)

The new power supply to the house is about 10-12 feet away from the new
kitchen room and it has a master shut off for the house and the wiring
is covered in conduit. Is this the Panel or the sub panel?

I need to install a new box with breakers for this kitchen inside the
house. How do I add up the Amps needed in order to buy the breaker?
There will be an oven, separate stove top, microwave, dishwasher,
garbage disposal, 2 ceiling fans w/lights with ceramic heaters, 2
indoor lights, 2 outdoor lights, fridge ( is that 110?), airvent
extraction fan, thermostat for the underfloor heating and 9 x 110 power
outlets for kitchen appliances a TV and plug in electric heaters (there
is now forced air in the back of the house) a washer and a dryer. I
think the amps are different for all of these and does it depend on the
watt consumption?

Should I run all of the wiring in conduit or just the 220 wiring? Only
the stove top, oven and dryer are 220 right?
What guage wire should I run for the lighting, outlets, 220, is the
fridge line a different guage. I should use outdoor wiring for the
outside light ? What guage?

I got a quote for $2500 and that's probably very good but I can't
afford it so I was planning on installing all the wiring up to the new
breaker panel and then asking an electrician to hook it up to the
mains. That sounds scary to me

For the plumbing I there was a old sink back there and I pulled up the
floor and it's got galvanized pipe and cast iron drains going into the
main drain. I think this was the original kitchen part of the house.
Is there an adapter that will let me connect black plastic drain into
the cast iron drain? Is there an adapter that will let me connect to
the galvanized supply lines for hot and cold.? What kind of pipe
should I use for these new lines? Should I run a separate drain from
each of the sink and the dishwasher to the main drain or can they go in
the same drain from the wall over to the main drain? Is there any kind
of a valve I can put in that will help with water pressure so when I
have the dishwasher on I can still use the sink? Do I need a separate
ventless thing for each of the sink and the dishwasher or can they
share one? Do I need any drain valves to prevent "backwash"? I was
planning on adding a garden tap off the cold water supply into the
kitchen is there anything special you have to do to make sure it
doesn't act as a cold conductor and freeze all the pipes? The walls
are wood siding like a shed so it gets cold in there. Can I take the
outside tap directly off the sink line near the wall or should I use a
three way supply to each of these 1. sink, 2. dishwasher, 3. outside
tap from the existing supply line? Are there any questions I forgot to
ask?

Lots of questions and yes I know I am certifiable. Please respond.

WOW that's a great site I think I just got another 10 hours of reading
ahead of me. Thanks, I hope it has all the answers. :-)

LOL - different shift was funny. I work from home and she went back to
university so she won't be making minimum wage for the rest of her life
- hence she's moving in with me and I like my hair just the way it is
:-)

How about the plumbing questions anyone?

"Knob and tube" LOL sounds well .....never mind

buffalobill wrote:
you could get her a job on a different shift from yours and just share
the kitchen.
you need to update the electrical service and update the 100 year old
knob and tube wiring, as you already know. see electrical faq at:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/




Mulan wrote:
I have been reading for hours on line and then I found this site :-) I
need help with terminology, wire guages needed and a bit of how to.
This is long so only the brave please continue.

The house was built in 1900 and half of it was rewired before I bought
it. I am putting in a a second kitchen so my divorced daughter can have
her own space and we don't tear each others hair out. The back part
where I want to put in the kitchen has the old wiring with ceramic
tubes in the joists. They make pretty good whistles if you blow just
right :-)

The new power supply to the house is about 10-12 feet away from the new
kitchen room and it has a master shut off for the house and the wiring
is covered in conduit. Is this the Panel or the sub panel?

I need to install a new box with breakers for this kitchen inside the
house. How do I add up the Amps needed in order to buy the breaker?
There will be an oven, separate stove top, microwave, dishwasher,
garbage disposal, 2 ceiling fans w/lights with ceramic heaters, 2
indoor lights, 2 outdoor lights, fridge ( is that 110?), airvent
extraction fan, thermostat for the underfloor heating and 9 x 110 power
outlets for kitchen appliances a TV and plug in electric heaters (there
is now forced air in the back of the house) a washer and a dryer. I
think the amps are different for all of these and does it depend on the
watt consumption?

Should I run all of the wiring in conduit or just the 220 wiring? Only
the stove top, oven and dryer are 220 right?
What guage wire should I run for the lighting, outlets, 220, is the
fridge line a different guage. I should use outdoor wiring for the
outside light ? What guage?

I got a quote for $2500 and that's probably very good but I can't
afford it so I was planning on installing all the wiring up to the new
breaker panel and then asking an electrician to hook it up to the
mains. That sounds scary to me

For the plumbing I there was a old sink back there and I pulled up the
floor and it's got galvanized pipe and cast iron drains going into the
main drain. I think this was the original kitchen part of the house.
Is there an adapter that will let me connect black plastic drain into
the cast iron drain? Is there an adapter that will let me connect to
the galvanized supply lines for hot and cold.? What kind of pipe
should I use for these new lines? Should I run a separate drain from
each of the sink and the dishwasher to the main drain or can they go in
the same drain from the wall over to the main drain? Is there any kind
of a valve I can put in that will help with water pressure so when I
have the dishwasher on I can still use the sink? Do I need a separate
ventless thing for each of the sink and the dishwasher or can they
share one? Do I need any drain valves to prevent "backwash"? I was
planning on adding a garden tap off the cold water supply into the
kitchen is there anything special you have to do to make sure it
doesn't act as a cold conductor and freeze all the pipes? The walls
are wood siding like a shed so it gets cold in there. Can I take the
outside tap directly off the sink line near the wall or should I use a
three way supply to each of these 1. sink, 2. dishwasher, 3. outside
tap from the existing supply line? Are there any questions I forgot to
ask?

Lots of questions and yes I know I am certifiable. Please respond.

Hi,

In my opinion it appears that you are - and I mean this as a
constructive comment - in WAY over your head.

As regards the pluming your results may or may not work properly, but
at least the actual chance that your efforts will injure or kill
yourself, your daughter or some subsequent occupant of the house are
likely small.

The electrical however is another matter, it ALL has to be done right
to be safe, and if it's "unsafe", there's a good chance any
resulting "accidents" will produce fatalities.

If you are determined to proceeded with this effort one important
preliminary step is to determine from you local building department
what portions of such work may be done by a homeowner, and what portion
if any MUST be done by a licensed electricians, plumbers and members of
other trades, and how you apply for the required permits to perform
this work. The building department may also be able to provide you
with a "checklist" of common mistakes they discover when inspecting
such projects, and a list of provisions different from the national
codes which have adopted by your town or city.

Let me say though - as someone who has actually done such work
themselves and inspects such work done by homeowners and contractors -
that when an average homeowner undertakes major renovations and
expansions of electrical, plumbing, HVAC and structural components
themselves their chances of getting it "right" the first time are
close to zero. (For that matter, many contractors are still not getting
it "right" after decades in the business. If you doubt either,
spend a bit of of time poking around on the message boards at a place
like inspectionnews.com).

That it's NOT just a matter of reading the codes, buying the parts, and
hooking things up - that you really have to understand WHY the codes
specify the things they do - how their provisions ACTULLY relate to
safety and functionality.

But most of all, you have to be able to think in terms of the big
picture.

For example, have you investigated the zoning and code requirements for
adding what amounts to a "in-law" apartment to your house? In most
communities there are underlying "life-safety" issues: minimum
square footages, ventilation and light requirements, emergence egress
standards and so on which need to be considered before you even start
thinking about laying out electrical, pluming or HVAC systems.

Acquiring and retaining this knowledge - hundreds and sometimes
thousands of "minor" details are involved in a major project - is
far from straightforward even for people with extensive experience in
the "trades", for example the efforts of a skilled practitioner of
one trade attempting to duplicate the work they have observed performed
by another (for instance a plumber attempting to wire their own home,
or an electrician attempting to plumb a building) are a notorious
source of problems, and every experienced home inspector has had the
experience of looking at substandard and even overtly dangerous work
done by intelligent homeowners with construction experience proud of
their efforts and surprised (and sometimes outraged) that not only did
they fail to get it "right", but that an overworked municipal
inspector - who can usually devote only a few minutes to each
inspection - has passed it!

So for someone with limited experience in construction - especially
when performing rehab work such as you are proposing, which presents a
host of special problems - well.... it's VERY difficult to get ALL
this right.... not impossible, but IMO not likely, either.

And the possible results of doing some of this stuff in
"reasonable" looking ways that are not right can be really, really
scary.

Michael Thomas
Paragon Home Inspection, LLC
Chicago, IL
mdtATparagoninspectsDOTcom

"Mulan" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have been reading for hours on line and then I found this site :-) I
need help with terminology, wire guages needed and a bit of how to.
This is long so only the brave please continue.

The house was built in 1900 and half of it was rewired before I bought
it. I am putting in a a second kitchen so my divorced daughter can have
her own space and we don't tear each others hair out. The back part
where I want to put in the kitchen has the old wiring with ceramic
tubes in the joists. They make pretty good whistles if you blow just
right :-)

The new power supply to the house is about 10-12 feet away from the new
kitchen room and it has a master shut off for the house and the wiring
is covered in conduit. Is this the Panel or the sub panel?

I need to install a new box with breakers for this kitchen inside the
house. How do I add up the Amps needed in order to buy the breaker?
There will be an oven, separate stove top, microwave, dishwasher,
garbage disposal, 2 ceiling fans w/lights with ceramic heaters, 2
indoor lights, 2 outdoor lights, fridge ( is that 110?), airvent
extraction fan, thermostat for the underfloor heating and 9 x 110 power
outlets for kitchen appliances a TV and plug in electric heaters (there
is now forced air in the back of the house) a washer and a dryer. I
think the amps are different for all of these and does it depend on the
watt consumption?

Should I run all of the wiring in conduit or just the 220 wiring? Only
the stove top, oven and dryer are 220 right?
What guage wire should I run for the lighting, outlets, 220, is the
fridge line a different guage. I should use outdoor wiring for the
outside light ? What guage?

I got a quote for $2500 and that's probably very good but I can't
afford it so I was planning on installing all the wiring up to the new
breaker panel and then asking an electrician to hook it up to the
mains. That sounds scary to me

For the plumbing I there was a old sink back there and I pulled up the
floor and it's got galvanized pipe and cast iron drains going into the
main drain. I think this was the original kitchen part of the house.
Is there an adapter that will let me connect black plastic drain into
the cast iron drain? Is there an adapter that will let me connect to
the galvanized supply lines for hot and cold.? What kind of pipe
should I use for these new lines? Should I run a separate drain from
each of the sink and the dishwasher to the main drain or can they go in
the same drain from the wall over to the main drain? Is there any kind
of a valve I can put in that will help with water pressure so when I
have the dishwasher on I can still use the sink? Do I need a separate
ventless thing for each of the sink and the dishwasher or can they
share one? Do I need any drain valves to prevent "backwash"? I was
planning on adding a garden tap off the cold water supply into the
kitchen is there anything special you have to do to make sure it
doesn't act as a cold conductor and freeze all the pipes? The walls
are wood siding like a shed so it gets cold in there. Can I take the
outside tap directly off the sink line near the wall or should I use a
three way supply to each of these 1. sink, 2. dishwasher, 3. outside
tap from the existing supply line? Are there any questions I forgot to
ask?

Lots of questions and yes I know I am certifiable. Please respond.

The site that buffalobill referred you to is great, but I agree with MDT.
You are in over your head. If you can't afford to hire it done turn key;
ask if you can hire an electrician as a consultant. Let him tell you what
to do, and you do the work. The truth is it will be more trouble to the
electrician than your fee will be worth, but if you ask enough of them,
you'll find one that is willing.

Randy R. Cox

Rule number one in general for kitchens... There are NEVER enough outlets
and outlets get easily overloaded.

So the idea is a separate 20 amp outlet on its own 20 amp breaker for each
appliance. And MANY counter top outlets with each outlet on its own 20 amp
breaker.

In theory a kitchen could have say 15 separate outlets each on its own 20
amp breaker.

Go to the store and look at all the kitchen appliances which can be
purchased. Many have heating elements which use a lot of amperage. And you
plug two of these into one outlet or one of these and a microwave into same
outlet and the breaker might trip.

Then lets put the microwave over here... Next week, let's move the microwave
over there next to the deep fryer... Next week something else..

Then also counter top appliances which don't use much amperage, but have
many in same area. Like can opener, radio, clock, blender, etc. And these
can be located anywhere and moved around. So for that reason, I think it is
best that each counter top outlet be a fourplex (4 outlets).

So think about this stuff in advance, then get a breaker panel which will
have enought slots for all those breakers. I have a 40 slot breaker panel
myself. (Rule number two is there is never enough slots available in a
breaker panel.)