I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre swimming pool
(better known as the money well) into a rainwater tank. It's inground
and made of very thick and solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done. From what I
have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on the pool now appears to
be the right power to supply the house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.

Wayne wrote:
I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre swimming pool
(better known as the money well) into a rainwater tank. It's inground
and made of very thick and solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done. From what I
have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on the pool now appears to
be the right power to supply the house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.

Not sure this is a good idea. How will you treat the water? The same
system that filters and chlorinates the water in the pool does not make
it potable. I think it's a legionaire's
disease/mosquito/cryptosporidium/giardia breeding ground waiting to
happen.

louie wrote:
Not sure this is a good idea. How will you treat the water? The same
system that filters and chlorinates the water in the pool does not make
it potable. I think it's a legionaire's
disease/mosquito/cryptosporidium/giardia breeding ground waiting to
happen.

Hi Louie
I had thought of that as well. My idea was to have a concrete lid built
onto it, with a well sealed access point for cleaning and sludge
removal, along with a filtering system on the inlet points. That is
what the water authorities reccomend on normal tanks. So provided it is
sealed the mosquitos won't be an issue. As to the rest, any info would
be good.

The filter system on it currently is a sand system, so there'd be no
chemicals involved.

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

louie wrote:
Not sure this is a good idea. How will you treat the water? The same
system that filters and chlorinates the water in the pool does not make
it potable. I think it's a legionaire's
disease/mosquito/cryptosporidium/giardia breeding ground waiting to
happen.

Hi Louie
I had thought of that as well. My idea was to have a concrete lid built
onto it, with a well sealed access point for cleaning and sludge
removal, along with a filtering system on the inlet points. That is
what the water authorities reccomend on normal tanks. So provided it is
sealed the mosquitos won't be an issue. As to the rest, any info would
be good.

The filter system on it currently is a sand system, so there'd be no
chemicals involved.


Take $100,000 and one gallon of gas. Mix well. Ignite.

You will have the same result as messing with this idea.

Unless you are just thinking of a way to make a swamp, a sewer, or holding
tank for irrigation water.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
Take $100,000 and one gallon of gas. Mix well. Ignite.

You will have the same result as messing with this idea.

Unless you are just thinking of a way to make a swamp, a sewer, or holding
tank for irrigation water.

Steve

Hi Steve
Okay you'll have to work on the theory that I'm a dummy here, because
never having looked at anything like this before, there are going to be
a lot of theories and situations I have no knowledge on.
Can you explain to me your thinking on this please.
Wayne

Steve B wrote:

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

louie wrote:
Not sure this is a good idea. How will you treat the water? The same
system that filters and chlorinates the water in the pool does not make
it potable. I think it's a legionaire's
disease/mosquito/cryptosporidium/giardia breeding ground waiting to
happen.

Hi Louie
I had thought of that as well. My idea was to have a concrete lid built
onto it, with a well sealed access point for cleaning and sludge
removal, along with a filtering system on the inlet points. That is
what the water authorities reccomend on normal tanks. So provided it is
sealed the mosquitos won't be an issue. As to the rest, any info would
be good.

The filter system on it currently is a sand system, so there'd be no
chemicals involved.


Take $100,000 and one gallon of gas. Mix well. Ignite.

You will have the same result as messing with this idea.

Unless you are just thinking of a way to make a swamp, a sewer, or holding
tank for irrigation water.

Steve

I'm sorry to say (ok, not so sorry) that you are way, way off base
there. Large rainwater collection tanks are very common in many parts of
the world and work just fine. Indeed I seem to recall This Old House did
a project in Bermuda and spent most of one episode covering the
rainwater tanks that provide the bulk of the domestic water there.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

I'm sorry to say (ok, not so sorry) that you are way, way off base
there. Large rainwater collection tanks are very common in many parts of
the world and work just fine. Indeed I seem to recall This Old House did
a project in Bermuda and spent most of one episode covering the
rainwater tanks that provide the bulk of the domestic water there.

Pete C.

G'day Pete
Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at their online site to see if
there is some sort of transcript on these systems.
Being in Australia, I haven't seen that show, although it's probably on
cable somewhere.
Cheers
Wayne

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve B wrote:
Take $100,000 and one gallon of gas. Mix well. Ignite.

You will have the same result as messing with this idea.

Unless you are just thinking of a way to make a swamp, a sewer, or
holding
tank for irrigation water.

Steve

Hi Steve
Okay you'll have to work on the theory that I'm a dummy here, because
never having looked at anything like this before, there are going to be
a lot of theories and situations I have no knowledge on.
Can you explain to me your thinking on this please.
Wayne


Just keep it simple.

What do you intend to use the water for?
What size of a management program would be required to store and maintain
that quality of water?
Is it worth the cost of building a storage facility when there is water
available from other cheap sources?

Steve

Steve B wrote:
Just keep it simple.

What do you intend to use the water for?
What size of a management program would be required to store and maintain
that quality of water?
Is it worth the cost of building a storage facility when there is water
available from other cheap sources?

Steve

The intention is to use it for showering, washing, flushing toilets
etc, we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
Management program? This is a two storey house..... not getting you
there.
The pool is built, full, and simply needs a well fitted cover, yep
there will be cost there, but I'm working those out as we go.
I don't know where you are Steve, but here in Sydney Australia, we are
under very tight water regulations, and it looks like they are going to
put the price of water up tremendously very soon. Our reservoir here is
currently at around 42% of capacity, and is going down not up.
Cheers
Wayne

louie writes:

The same
system that filters and chlorinates the water in the pool does not make
it potable.

Properly maintained pool water is sterile. The problem is, it is not
always properly maintained.

"Wayne" wrote

The intention is to use it for showering, washing, flushing toilets
etc, we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
Management program? This is a two storey house..... not getting you
there.
The pool is built, full, and simply needs a well fitted cover, yep
there will be cost there, but I'm working those out as we go.
I don't know where you are Steve, but here in Sydney Australia, we are
under very tight water regulations, and it looks like they are going to
put the price of water up tremendously very soon. Our reservoir here is
currently at around 42% of capacity, and is going down not up.
Cheers
Wayne


If it were just that simple. Storing XX,000 gallons of water, and keeping
it safe to use is not a small task.

Even though you say you will only use the water for showering, etc., you can
ingest protozoans that are in the water by simply getting them on your lips
during showering. Protozoans that cause dysentery and that are difficult to
treat, even with modern medicine. Some incidents have been fatal.

Your questioning of the term "management program" indicates that you have
not done a lot of homework on this. What you propose is plausible. It's
doable. But you aren't going to be able to just use your swimming pool as a
water reservoir without some "management program", just as you can't simply
swim in your pool without a "management program" that involves monitoring
and treating the water. And such a simple solution as you propose of adding
a tight fitting cover is not going to be anything that is close to easy.

Good luck in your adventure.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
If it were just that simple. Storing XX,000 gallons of water, and keeping
it safe to use is not a small task.
Even though you say you will only use the water for showering, etc., you can
ingest protozoans that are in the water by simply getting them on your lips
during showering. Protozoans that cause dysentery and that are difficult to
treat, even with modern medicine. Some incidents have been fatal.
***Wayne: - Precisely why I am asking these questions, obviously there
are those of you out there who have some of the answers.
Your questioning of the term "management program" indicates that you have
not done a lot of homework on this.
***Wayne - Which is exactly why all these questions, did you think
these were just random thoughts?
What you propose is plausible. It's
doable. But you aren't going to be able to just use your swimming pool as a
water reservoir without some "management program", just as you can't simply
swim in your pool without a "management program" that involves monitoring
and treating the water. And such a simple solution as you propose of adding
a tight fitting cover is not going to be anything that is close to easy.
***Wayne - I'm not looking for a simple solution, if there is a
management program neccessary, then that is what will have to be
implemented.
I truly do appreciate your concern over our health, but have to remind
you that up until two years ago, I lived in the country and lived in a
home serviced by a 500 litre tank. Never had a problem with any
diseases, and it tasted better and more pure than any "town water" I
have ever tasted.
Steve I'm 47 years old, not prone to idylles, simply a better solution
to a problem.
If you aren't going to help with specifics, please leave it to those
who will, there are others on here that have offered possible solutions
and suggestions.

Committed to finding out whether this is an economical, sensible way to
go.
Wayne

Wayne wrote:
Sorry I meant 5000 litre not 500.

wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Sorry I meant 5000 litre not 500.

Its a interesting idea. theres the cost of the cover, the filter and
pumps to get the water in the house and the cost of power to keep the
water pumps and filters working.


fi;ltering for toliets etc can be kinda crude, showeing demands much
better.

so assume you have this big tank, and are using water.

how will you replenish the tank?

Wayne
Okay let's take this step by step.
The cover will cost X amount of money which I'm prepared to do, the
filter already exists and is a sand filter, and will cost the same
amount as running this as a swimming pool.
My theory is that as it is adequate as a pool filter, it should be
adequate to filter for showering, washing and toilet flushing, and we
use spring water for drinking and cooking and have done for the last
couple of years.
As to "are you using water", I was considering using alcohol, but as
it's currently full of WATER, and the cost of 55,000 litres of even the
cheapest alcohol in Australia would come to about $120000 dollars, I
figured water was the best way to go.
Therefore, we will use the traditional method of allowing the skies to
administer the additional liquid to the said tank.
For god's sake read the previous posts or don't bother.

On 9 Jun 2006 16:39:02 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre swimming pool
(better known as the money well) into a rainwater tank. It's inground
and made of very thick and solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done. From what I
have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on the pool now appears to
be the right power to supply the house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.


I don't see why it wouldn't work Wayne. The way we have been pushed
rain water tanks over the past few years, i am surprised that I have
not heard of the idea before. There are many older houses around
Sydney that have underground storage tanks and that is really all that
you are proposing. It would be easy to channel rainwater into it and
the standard pump would be adequate to get the water out of it. You
may want to think about a smaller, elevated intermediate tank with a
float valve to act a s a buffer between the pool and the house.

How about talking to someone like Dural Irrigation for some ideas.

http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/on...vigationID=301

Now if I can only convince the better half that we don't need the
pool....

Good luck.

Avery wrote:
I don't see why it wouldn't work Wayne. The way we have been pushed
rain water tanks over the past few years, i am surprised that I have
not heard of the idea before. There are many older houses around
Sydney that have underground storage tanks and that is really all that
you are proposing. It would be easy to channel rainwater into it and
the standard pump would be adequate to get the water out of it. You
may want to think about a smaller, elevated intermediate tank with a
float valve to act a s a buffer between the pool and the house.

How about talking to someone like Dural Irrigation for some ideas.

http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/on...vigationID=301

Now if I can only convince the better half that we don't need the
pool....

Good luck.

Avery wrote:
I don't see why it wouldn't work Wayne. The way we have been pushed
rain water tanks over the past few years, i am surprised that I have
not heard of the idea before. There are many older houses around
Sydney that have underground storage tanks and that is really all that
you are proposing. It would be easy to channel rainwater into it and
the standard pump would be adequate to get the water out of it. You
may want to think about a smaller, elevated intermediate tank with a
float valve to act a s a buffer between the pool and the house.

How about talking to someone like Dural Irrigation for some ideas.

http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/on...vigationID=301

Now if I can only convince the better half that we don't need the
pool....

Good luck.
Hi Avery
I have sent a query to another irrigation specialist, but will give
Dural a go as well, the more the merrier I say. I dont know that this
has been tried before, but I'm determined that either this will happen
or it will become a hole filled with dirt. No more money drain for me
mate!
Thanks for the lead. I'll keep posting here to keep things up to date.
Wayne

teabird wrote:
I spent about 5 years in Alice Springs in the 70's so I have an
affinity for you blokes Down Under!

Here are a few thoughts regarding your project:

1) Here in the States, we are over regulated and paranoid about safety.
We have come to expect any job to be over-engineered and complex, or
it won't work. We have come to fear even the smallest risk to our
health and spend excessively to reduce that risk. It sounds like you
don't have these burdens.

2) How will you design and build a cover for the pool? I imagine a
solid concrete, reinforced slab over the pool; but then again, see #1
above I'm sure there is a simpler way.

3) Can you capture enough rainwater to supply your needs? Your roof is
the obvious choice, and any other source may add to the filter burden.


4) I saw the TOH episodes in Bermuda. The whole community was served
by rainwater caught in basins acres and acres large. It goes to show
that catching and storing rainwater is a feasible method on any scale.
It sounds like you can supplemant your rainwater with well water if
needed. You will have to tie both plumbing systems together somehow.

Good luck with the project,

James
Hi James
Yep you are probably right about us not having the same burdens as
regards safety, but I guess in a lot of ways we're a fairly hardy bunch
out here. No offence intended but we've survived a lot.

My idea was to create a suspended grid of galvinised iron to support a
structure of compressed concrete to create a lid (and a decent sized
area to use as an entertainment area) allowing for an access point in
case it has to be dredged for sludge.

Collecting water shouldn't be a problem so long as it rains, I already
have ample points to gather from, the pool is currently ready to
overflow from recent downfalls. And yes I have considered the fact that
it could push the lid off, and have devised (in my head) a system to
stop that happening. That was something that came to mind fairly early
in the process.

Thanks for not dismissing the whole idea, I still think it has its
merits regardless of those who have suggested otherwise.
Cheers
Wayne

Wayne wrote:
teabird wrote:
I spent about 5 years in Alice Springs in the 70's so I have an
affinity for you blokes Down Under!

Here are a few thoughts regarding your project:

1) Here in the States, we are over regulated and paranoid about safety.
We have come to expect any job to be over-engineered and complex, or
it won't work. We have come to fear even the smallest risk to our
health and spend excessively to reduce that risk. It sounds like you
don't have these burdens.

2) How will you design and build a cover for the pool? I imagine a
solid concrete, reinforced slab over the pool; but then again, see #1
above I'm sure there is a simpler way.

3) Can you capture enough rainwater to supply your needs? Your roof is
the obvious choice, and any other source may add to the filter burden.


4) I saw the TOH episodes in Bermuda. The whole community was served
by rainwater caught in basins acres and acres large. It goes to show
that catching and storing rainwater is a feasible method on any scale.
It sounds like you can supplemant your rainwater with well water if
needed. You will have to tie both plumbing systems together somehow.

Good luck with the project,

James
Hi James
Yep you are probably right about us not having the same burdens as
regards safety, but I guess in a lot of ways we're a fairly hardy bunch
out here. No offence intended but we've survived a lot.

My idea was to create a suspended grid of galvinised iron to support a
structure of compressed concrete to create a lid (and a decent sized
area to use as an entertainment area) allowing for an access point in
case it has to be dredged for sludge.

Collecting water shouldn't be a problem so long as it rains, I already
have ample points to gather from, the pool is currently ready to
overflow from recent downfalls. And yes I have considered the fact that
it could push the lid off, and have devised (in my head) a system to
stop that happening. That was something that came to mind fairly early
in the process.

Thanks for not dismissing the whole idea, I still think it has its
merits regardless of those who have suggested otherwise.
Cheers
Wayne

Its too bad theres not some way to have your cake and eat it too. a
removable cover for occasional swimming use seasonally and rain water
storage at off times?

dont know enough about your part of the world to know if thats
feasible..

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Sorry I meant 5000 litre not 500.

Its a interesting idea. theres the cost of the cover, the filter and
pumps to get the water in the house and the cost of power to keep the
water pumps and filters working.


fi;ltering for toliets etc can be kinda crude, showeing demands much
better.

so assume you have this big tank, and are using water.

how will you replenish the tank?

Wayne
Okay let's take this step by step.
The cover will cost X amount of money which I'm prepared to do, the
filter already exists and is a sand filter, and will cost the same
amount as running this as a swimming pool.
My theory is that as it is adequate as a pool filter, it should be
adequate to filter for showering, washing and toilet flushing, and we
use spring water for drinking and cooking and have done for the last
couple of years.
As to "are you using water", I was considering using alcohol, but as
it's currently full of WATER, and the cost of 55,000 litres of even the
cheapest alcohol in Australia would come to about $120000 dollars, I
figured water was the best way to go.
Therefore, we will use the traditional method of allowing the skies to
administer the additional liquid to the said tank.
For god's sake read the previous posts or don't bother.


There is one word in your post that I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.

That word is "should."

That "should" work.

When it comes to health issues, should is not acceptable.

Steve

"Wayne" wrote

My idea was to create a suspended grid of galvinised iron to support a
structure of compressed concrete to create a lid (and a decent sized
area to use as an entertainment area) allowing for an access point in
case it has to be dredged for sludge.
Cheers
Wayne


You'll be using water that has to have sludge removed from it?

My, you ARE a hearty bunch.

Steve

Steve B wrote:

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Wayne wrote:
Sorry I meant 5000 litre not 500.

Its a interesting idea. theres the cost of the cover, the filter and
pumps to get the water in the house and the cost of power to keep the
water pumps and filters working.


fi;ltering for toliets etc can be kinda crude, showeing demands much
better.

so assume you have this big tank, and are using water.

how will you replenish the tank?

Wayne
Okay let's take this step by step.
The cover will cost X amount of money which I'm prepared to do, the
filter already exists and is a sand filter, and will cost the same
amount as running this as a swimming pool.
My theory is that as it is adequate as a pool filter, it should be
adequate to filter for showering, washing and toilet flushing, and we
use spring water for drinking and cooking and have done for the last
couple of years.
As to "are you using water", I was considering using alcohol, but as
it's currently full of WATER, and the cost of 55,000 litres of even the
cheapest alcohol in Australia would come to about $120000 dollars, I
figured water was the best way to go.
Therefore, we will use the traditional method of allowing the skies to
administer the additional liquid to the said tank.
For god's sake read the previous posts or don't bother.


There is one word in your post that I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.

That word is "should."

That "should" work.

When it comes to health issues, should is not acceptable.

Steve

Then substitute "does" as in "does work" since exactly what the OP is
proposing is commonly done in many parts of the world, even in some
areas of the US.

Pete C.

Wayne wrote:
I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre
swimming pool (better known as the money well) into a
rainwater tank. It's inground and made of very thick and
solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done.
From what I have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on
the pool now appears to be the right power to supply the
house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.

That's basically a cistern you're contemplating making. Look it
up on Google. Not advisable.

Pop

wrote:

Its too bad theres not some way to have your cake and eat it too. a
removable cover for occasional swimming use seasonally and rain water
storage at off times?

dont know enough about your part of the world to know if thats
feasible..

That may be feasible, but I don't know that I'd be happy about the
possibility of the grandkids peeing in it in the summer....... but an
interesting thought I must say!
Cheers hallerb

Steve B wrote:
There is one word in your post that I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.

That word is "should."

That "should" work.

When it comes to health issues, should is not acceptable.


I couldn't agree more Steve, health is funnily enough at the top of the
heap of my many questions in regard to this whole issue.
But you are suggesting that the entire thing should be scrapped because
you simply don't know whether or not it is going to be an issue, you
feel it is, then it must be so.

For the last two hundred and some years, Australians (and funnily
enough the rest of the world) have been living with tank water, dam
water, creek water and so on. I'm sorry Steve but you strike me as a
person who is living in an over regulated and closed minded society.
If you can show me something to definitively deny the possibility this
will work, I'll listen, otherwise allow other to give good rhetoric on
the idea.

Steve B wrote:
You'll be using water that has to have sludge removed from it?

My, you ARE a hearty bunch.

Steve
Ever looked in the bottom of a rainwater tank?
Generally you will have a certain amount of silt from the roof. After a
few years, you need to clean it out, in the interests of clean clear
water, not health although I wouldn't want to drink the stuff.

Pop wrote:
Wayne wrote:
I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre
swimming pool (better known as the money well) into a
rainwater tank. It's inground and made of very thick and
solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done.
From what I have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on
the pool now appears to be the right power to supply the
house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.

That's basically a cistern you're contemplating making. Look it
up on Google. Not advisable.

Pop

Hi Pop
Looked it up on Google, and got a huge amount of cistern manufacturers
ads and how to fit one to a toilet etc. nothing definitive.
Can you shine any light on your recomendation please.

I'm hearing a lot of people here saying it can't be done, but so far
not one convincing reason it isn't a reasonable idea.

Try a google search on "underground rainwater tank" and you will find
there are literally hundreds of companies selling them.

I have the tank, I need a top, and some good advice on what CAN be done
to make it work, I'd rather not hear any more on how it CAN"T be done.
It's pretty obvious it will work.

So please those of you who are dedicated to making things happen please
keep posting.

Pop wrote:
Wayne wrote:
I'm considering the idea of converting our 55,000 litre
swimming pool (better known as the money well) into a
rainwater tank. It's inground and made of very thick and
solid concrete, with no leaks.
Has anybody out there done this or heard of it being done.
From what I have read, it seems feasible, and the pump on
the pool now appears to be the right power to supply the
house.

Any and all hints and tips would be appreciated.

That's basically a cistern you're contemplating making. Look it
up on Google. Not advisable.

Pop

Hi Pop
Looked it up on Google, and got a huge amount of cistern manufacturers
ads and how to fit one to a toilet etc. nothing definitive.
Can you shine any light on your recomendation please.

I'm hearing a lot of people here saying it can't be done, but so far
not one convincing reason it isn't a reasonable idea.

Try a google search on "underground rainwater tank" and you will find
there are literally hundreds of companies selling them.

I have the tank, I need a top, and some good advice on what CAN be done
to make it work, I'd rather not hear any more on how it CAN"T be done.
It's pretty obvious it will work.

So please those of you who are dedicated to making things happen please
keep posting.

Just as a idea, a roll away cover, true you cant dance on it, but no
one could fall in. Add a really good filter and chlorinate or otherwise
treat the water.

Someone mentioned peeing in the water.

Everyone should realize all water has been used befoire It just gets
reprocessed!

For toilets no trouble

for clothes washing who cares as long as the water doesnt soil the
clothes

showering is akin to drinking the water, of course ever go swimming in
a lake? drink well water? etc etc.

how much $ are you willing to spend on filtration?

"Wayne" wrote

If you can show me something to definitively deny the possibility this
will work, I'll listen, otherwise allow other to give good rhetoric on
the idea.


It's a simple thing, Wayne. Make it. Spend some money on it. See if it
will work. I could be wrong.

I own properties in three states in the United States. On two of the
properties, the need for temporary water is an issue. One two acre parcel
is between Dolan Springs, AZ, and Meadview AZ. The only way to get water is
to haul it yourself.

Our cabin is in rural Utah in the Wasatch Mountains. It has a spring fed
system in the summer, and that is monitored by a licensed M.D. who has one
of the lots. We have a relatively expensive filtration system on it. For
about five months a year, the system is shut off due to sub freezing
temperatures. When we go up there during the winter, we have to haul our
own water in. We never leave any extra water there because "things" start
to grow in standing water.

I am not totally inexperienced to living on "wild water."

What you are proposing is not outlandish. BUT, when you get to the 55,000
liter size that you are contemplating, housing it in a holding device that
is not designed for the purpose, and not being able to totally seal the
thing from elements, I begin to find some reasons that would make a
reasonable man conclude that you might have problems.

You yourself have already proffered the idea for a way to remove "sludge".
You must anticipate the water degrading.

You may be able to do this, and it may work for you. IF IT WERE ME, I would
use a container designed to hold water for long periods of time, and I would
learn and understand the downsides of unsanitary water. And by unsanitary
water, I mean any water that comes from a source not regulated by health
department laws.

I know that Indians used to drink out of creeks and rivers and lakes. In
your land, the Aborigines probably still drink "wild water" and don't have
ill effects. Maybe even you have a tolerance to it after years of rural
living.

What you are considering is costly. If you are not right, you will be
throwing a lot of money away, and you may get very sick. And if you are
right, you will have the satisfaction of a job well done.

Enough rhetoric?

Steve

"Wayne" wrote

Try a google search on "underground rainwater tank" and you will find
there are literally hundreds of companies selling them.


I don't know if you noticed, but those tanks are not made of porous plaster.

Steve

wrote:
Just as a idea, a roll away cover, true you cant dance on it, but no
one could fall in. Add a really good filter and chlorinate or otherwise
treat the water.

Someone mentioned peeing in the water.

Everyone should realize all water has been used befoire It just gets
reprocessed!

For toilets no trouble

for clothes washing who cares as long as the water doesnt soil the
clothes

showering is akin to drinking the water, of course ever go swimming in
a lake? drink well water? etc etc.

how much $ are you willing to spend on filtration?

Hi Hallerb
That would probably be an answer if we were'nt also looking to get back
a large piece of our backyard.

You're right about the need to make sure it is well filtered, and
according to at least on tank specialist, he's pretty much sure that
the sand filter already installed will be fine, although I may need to
give it a good backflush regularly. No problem I do that now.
As to drinking lake, creek, tank and well water, I have done many times
over the years when out camping, but usually after confirming the
source was okay.
When you get right down to it, what is a dam other than a large lake.
Yes they do treat the water prior to delivery, but I reckon it tastes
like crap which is why we have bottled water on hand.

We're getting there, I think it's just a matter of working out the
numerous details.
Wayne

Wayne wrote:
wrote:
Just as a idea, a roll away cover, true you cant dance on it, but no
one could fall in. Add a really good filter and chlorinate or otherwise
treat the water.

Someone mentioned peeing in the water.

Everyone should realize all water has been used befoire It just gets
reprocessed!

For toilets no trouble

for clothes washing who cares as long as the water doesnt soil the
clothes

showering is akin to drinking the water, of course ever go swimming in
a lake? drink well water? etc etc.

how much $ are you willing to spend on filtration?

Hi Hallerb
That would probably be an answer if we were'nt also looking to get back
a large piece of our backyard.

You're right about the need to make sure it is well filtered, and
according to at least on tank specialist, he's pretty much sure that
the sand filter already installed will be fine, although I may need to
give it a good backflush regularly. No problem I do that now.
As to drinking lake, creek, tank and well water, I have done many times
over the years when out camping, but usually after confirming the
source was okay.
When you get right down to it, what is a dam other than a large lake.
Yes they do treat the water prior to delivery, but I reckon it tastes
like crap which is why we have bottled water on hand.

We're getting there, I think it's just a matter of working out the
numerous details.
Wayne

If your showering in it or using it for other purposes like washing
dishes you MUST chlorinate or otherwise disenfect it properly.

You might check with your local weater service about the quality of
rain water in your area. Around here coal fired power plants put way
too much of ??? dont remember but it made the news recently....

anyhow chemical power plants etc might be a issue espically if the
stuff will tend to accumulate in your tank over time?

before you do this get some professional advice!!! from your local
area.

bermuda and this old house has been mentioned here. do realize they are
in the middle of the ocean so less chance of downwind stuff poisioning
the water.

look at the energy and chemical costs to do what your planning...

On 10 Jun 2006 16:49:44 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:


I couldn't agree more Steve, health is funnily enough at the top of the
heap of my many questions in regard to this whole issue.

UV light is a very effective sterilizer. One solution is to have an
intermediate holding tank sized to your personal water consumption and
sterilize only that tank's water.

As for the pool water there is a lot of research already done, and
published material available, that will maintain clarity in relatively
large (aquarium) tanks of water and yet be biologically benign. Maybe
that's the way to go. Establish an ecologically balanced dark cave
(minimal sized) community. That will keep in check the
microorganisms. Any life threatening contamination or conditions will
be immediately obvious should that community fail to thrive.

wrote:
Wayne wrote:
wrote:
Just as a idea, a roll away cover, true you cant dance on it, but no
one could fall in. Add a really good filter and chlorinate or otherwise
treat the water.

Someone mentioned peeing in the water.

Everyone should realize all water has been used befoire It just gets
reprocessed!

For toilets no trouble

for clothes washing who cares as long as the water doesnt soil the
clothes

showering is akin to drinking the water, of course ever go swimming in
a lake? drink well water? etc etc.

how much $ are you willing to spend on filtration?

Hi Hallerb
That would probably be an answer if we were'nt also looking to get back
a large piece of our backyard.

You're right about the need to make sure it is well filtered, and
according to at least on tank specialist, he's pretty much sure that
the sand filter already installed will be fine, although I may need to
give it a good backflush regularly. No problem I do that now.
As to drinking lake, creek, tank and well water, I have done many times
over the years when out camping, but usually after confirming the
source was okay.
When you get right down to it, what is a dam other than a large lake.
Yes they do treat the water prior to delivery, but I reckon it tastes
like crap which is why we have bottled water on hand.

We're getting there, I think it's just a matter of working out the
numerous details.
Wayne

If your showering in it or using it for other purposes like washing
dishes you MUST chlorinate or otherwise disenfect it properly.

You might check with your local weater service about the quality of
rain water in your area. Around here coal fired power plants put way
too much of ??? dont remember but it made the news recently....

anyhow chemical power plants etc might be a issue espically if the
stuff will tend to accumulate in your tank over time?

before you do this get some professional advice!!! from your local
area.

bermuda and this old house has been mentioned here. do realize they are
in the middle of the ocean so less chance of downwind stuff poisioning
the water.

look at the energy and chemical costs to do what your planning...

Hi Hallerb
I'm waiting for reports from both the Water Board, and the local
meteorological service on water quality, that should be back to me this
week.

Also from a couple of irrigation/storage services.

I'll let you know what comes of that.
Cheers
Wayne

Steve B wrote:
"Wayne" wrote

If you can show me something to definitively deny the possibility this
will work, I'll listen, otherwise allow other to give good rhetoric on
the idea.


It's a simple thing, Wayne. Make it. Spend some money on it. See if it
will work. I could be wrong.

I own properties in three states in the United States. On two of the
properties, the need for temporary water is an issue. One two acre parcel
is between Dolan Springs, AZ, and Meadview AZ. The only way to get water is
to haul it yourself.

Our cabin is in rural Utah in the Wasatch Mountains. It has a spring fed
system in the summer, and that is monitored by a licensed M.D. who has one
of the lots. We have a relatively expensive filtration system on it. For
about five months a year, the system is shut off due to sub freezing
temperatures. When we go up there during the winter, we have to haul our
own water in. We never leave any extra water there because "things" start
to grow in standing water.

I am not totally inexperienced to living on "wild water."

What you are proposing is not outlandish. BUT, when you get to the 55,000
liter size that you are contemplating, housing it in a holding device that
is not designed for the purpose, and not being able to totally seal the
thing from elements, I begin to find some reasons that would make a
reasonable man conclude that you might have problems.

You yourself have already proffered the idea for a way to remove "sludge".
You must anticipate the water degrading.

You may be able to do this, and it may work for you. IF IT WERE ME, I would
use a container designed to hold water for long periods of time, and I would
learn and understand the downsides of unsanitary water. And by unsanitary
water, I mean any water that comes from a source not regulated by health
department laws.

I know that Indians used to drink out of creeks and rivers and lakes. In
your land, the Aborigines probably still drink "wild water" and don't have
ill effects. Maybe even you have a tolerance to it after years of rural
living.

What you are considering is costly. If you are not right, you will be
throwing a lot of money away, and you may get very sick. And if you are
right, you will have the satisfaction of a job well done.

Enough rhetoric?

Steve
Hi Steve
Wonderful rhetoric mate, much appreciated.
I have mentioned elsewhere on here that I'm waiting for information
from the local water authority, and I will let you know what the result
of that is.
I've worked out that I can fairly easily seal the top, although it will
be costly, so a lot is going to ride on the answers I get back as to
what is neccessary to assure water quality, and also the ability of the
existing pump to get it up to the top floor.

The bottom line on this might end up with me emptying it punching some
holes in it to avoid it lifting out of the ground, and filling it in,
but I won't make that decision until I've worked out if it may be worth
it.
Cheers
Wayne

"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve B wrote:
"Wayne" wrote

I wonder what a human-rated water storage bladder that size would cost?

I think maybe I'd consider such a converted pool for storage of outside-use
water and include a drafting standpipe for fire department use, but I'd be
real hesitant to use it for potable water.

aem sends...

ameijers wrote:
"Wayne" wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve B wrote:
"Wayne" wrote

I wonder what a human-rated water storage bladder that size would cost?

I think maybe I'd consider such a converted pool for storage of outside-use
water and include a drafting standpipe for fire department use, but I'd be
real hesitant to use it for potable water.

aem sends...

An interesting idea, might be worth looking into.
If I can't use this for potable water in the end, I'll be hooking it
for at least the toilets and washing machine I think.

2) How will you design and build a cover for the pool? I imagine a
solid concrete, reinforced slab over the pool; but then again, see #1
above I'm sure there is a simpler way.

Build the cistern cover as a raft, or just build a regular
gable-roof, or even a complete shed over it.

3) Can you capture enough rainwater to supply your needs? Your roof is
the obvious choice, and any other source may add to the filter burden.


4) I saw the TOH episodes in Bermuda. The whole community was served
by rainwater caught in basins acres and acres large. It goes to show
that catching and storing rainwater is a feasible method on any scale.
It sounds like you can supplemant your rainwater with well water if
needed. You will have to tie both plumbing systems together somehow.

The best way to do that is to just pump well-water into the
cistern with a 2" or bigger air-gap, to prevent backflow.

There should not be any plumbed connection, or you
risk cistern-water ending up in your well, which will
screw up the well.

thanks its a novel idea, you might consider ading a vinyl liner to the
pool, which would minimize leak potential

Goedjn wrote:
2) How will you design and build a cover for the pool? I imagine a
solid concrete, reinforced slab over the pool; but then again, see #1
above I'm sure there is a simpler way.

Build the cistern cover as a raft, or just build a regular
gable-roof, or even a complete shed over it.

3) Can you capture enough rainwater to supply your needs? Your roof is
the obvious choice, and any other source may add to the filter burden.


4) I saw the TOH episodes in Bermuda. The whole community was served
by rainwater caught in basins acres and acres large. It goes to show
that catching and storing rainwater is a feasible method on any scale.
It sounds like you can supplemant your rainwater with well water if
needed. You will have to tie both plumbing systems together somehow.

The best way to do that is to just pump well-water into the
cistern with a 2" or bigger air-gap, to prevent backflow.

There should not be any plumbed connection, or you
risk cistern-water ending up in your well, which will
screw up the well.

Raft system is what I"m looking at, probably reinforced cement
sheeting. It can be properly sealed all the way around, and provide a
good flat surface to walk around on so long as we build a good sturdy
structure to hold it.

Provided we have enough rain, we shouldn't have any real issues with
capturing water. It's currently almost at the point of overflowing as
we've had a lot of rain. I will probably look at using groundwater as a
topup system as well.