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Ether Jones
 
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Default penetrating primer ?


Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.

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Norminn
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

Ether Jones wrote:

Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.

If the wood was weathered, it should have been sanded down to new wood.
Did you use shellac-based primer? Dries fast.
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Ether Jones
 
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Default penetrating primer ?


Norminn wrote:
Ether Jones wrote:

Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.

If the wood was weathered, it should have been sanded down to new wood.
Did you use shellac-based primer? Dries fast.


I'm looking for a penetrating primer - one that will soak into the wood
like a deck stain does... not just lay on the surface. Does such a
thing even exist?

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Banty
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

In article . com, Ether Jones
says...


Norminn wrote:
Ether Jones wrote:

Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.

If the wood was weathered, it should have been sanded down to new wood.
Did you use shellac-based primer? Dries fast.


I'm looking for a penetrating primer - one that will soak into the wood
like a deck stain does... not just lay on the surface. Does such a
thing even exist?


Possibly not - if a primer is formulated to bind to the surface and make a
paintable surface, the need for that quality would prevent creating a
formulation that would allow penetration as well. In order to penetrate, it
can't be stopped on its way by binding to what its passing.

I'm not a paint expert, but I'm a materials engineer, and this strikes me as be
one of those kind of problems which have an inherent tradeoff. But I may be
wrong...

Banty


--

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Norminn
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

Ether Jones wrote:
Norminn wrote:

Ether Jones wrote:


Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.


If the wood was weathered, it should have been sanded down to new wood.
Did you use shellac-based primer? Dries fast.



I'm looking for a penetrating primer - one that will soak into the wood
like a deck stain does... not just lay on the surface. Does such a
thing even exist?


Any good primer should adhere if the surface is prepped right. Failure
of the paint is easier outdoors, of course, and all surfaces of the wood
need to be covered in order to slow that down, including ends and
underside. Might be time to replace the wood and paint it properly
before installing it. Easier said than done )

The "sticky" primer stumps me - I've used alkyd, water-based and
shellac-based - the only one that approaches sticky was the shellac
based, because it dries faster and brushing too much could make it seem
sticky. You can thin a primer, according to the amount stated on the
label, but most are better not thinned. Was yours an old batch?

Outdoors, wood that isn't finished on all sides can absorb moisture
through the end grain fastest, and through the underside. The moisture
then makes the paint loosen. Oil primer is probably more compatible
with raw wood because wood always has a bit of oil in it, some more than
others (redwood, cedar).


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Tom The Great
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

On 8 Jun 2006 12:11:24 -0700, "Ether Jones"
wrote:


Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin, like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.


Is it possble, that the wood isn't up to grade for painting?

I have some boards on my deck that unless completely sealed top and
bottom, they swell and contract and oil based sealants still flake off
on NON-traffic surfaces in two years.

later,

tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com


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Nospam
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

Moisture will seep into the treads from anywhere exposed opening no matter
how small (such as where the treads are nailed). Once water get into the
treads, the sun will then bake the treads forcing the moisture to the
surface, and thereby cracking/blistering/peeling the paint (including
primer).

Robert



"NickySantoro" wrote in message
...
On 9 Jun 2006 20:12:13 -0700, "Ether Jones"
wrote:


Norminn wrote:
Ether Jones wrote:

Last summer I removed the treads from my exposed porch stairs, scraped
and wire-brushed them down to bare wood, let them dry in the sun for
several days, then painted them with an oil-based primer, and when
that
cured, I applied a topcoat of latex labelled for use on exterior porch
horizontal surfaces.

Already this year, the paint (and primer) is flaking off in large
chunks. These stairs are exposed to sun and rain.

When I was applying the primer, I noticed that it was very "sticky",
almost like glue. At the time, I thought "man this stuff is great;
it's never gonna come off".

Now I'm wondering if perhaps a primer should instead be very thin,
like
a stain, so that it soaks into the wood and gets a good toehold, and
provides a suitable chemical surface for tenacious adhesion of the
topcoat.

Is there such a product? Need brand name and product name.

If the wood was weathered, it should have been sanded down to new wood.
Did you use shellac-based primer? Dries fast.


I'm looking for a penetrating primer - one that will soak into the wood
like a deck stain does... not just lay on the surface. Does such a
thing even exist?

Two things...
I suspect there was some contamination it that original primer. Do
you recall the brand?
This product has served me well. All the majors make an equivalent.
Benjamin Moore Fresh Start® Moorwhite® Penetrating Alkyd Primer 100
FWIW
YMMV



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Ether Jones
 
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Default penetrating primer ?


Nospam wrote:
Moisture will seep into the treads from anywhere exposed opening no matter
how small (such as where the treads are nailed). Once water get into the
treads, the sun will then bake the treads forcing the moisture to the
surface, and thereby cracking/blistering/peeling the paint (including
primer).


The "toner" deck stain I use on my deck soaks very deeply into the wood
and does not peel, even though I treat only the exposed side of the
wood. My deck is a southern exposure and gets merciless sun and rain
and snow, and high foot traffic.

So I guess what I'm looking for (for my painted porch steps) is a
primer that soaks in like that, AND provides a chemically suitable
surface for tenacious topcoat bonding.

It wasn't my idea to paint the porch. The previous owners painted it.
It is a large wrap-around so there's no way I'm gonna strip the whole
thing or replace all the boards. I'm pretty much stuck with paint.

The unexposed low-traffic areas are doing fine; it's just the
breezeway area (which gets lots of rain and foot traffic) and the three
sets of exposed steps (which get sun, rain, and heavy foot traffic)
that won't hold the paint.

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RicodJour
 
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Default penetrating primer ?

Ether Jones wrote:
Nospam wrote:
Moisture will seep into the treads from anywhere exposed opening no matter
how small (such as where the treads are nailed). Once water get into the
treads, the sun will then bake the treads forcing the moisture to the
surface, and thereby cracking/blistering/peeling the paint (including
primer).


The "toner" deck stain I use on my deck soaks very deeply into the wood
and does not peel, even though I treat only the exposed side of the
wood. My deck is a southern exposure and gets merciless sun and rain
and snow, and high foot traffic.


Stain doesn't peel. It wears/washes away. You could use a solid body
stain on your porch, but you'd still have lots of preparation to do.

R

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