I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

wrote:
I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

probably the carbon pile lightning arrestor

you could offer to pay the phone company directly to fix the problem,
it will assure good workmanship and give you someone to complain too if
the repair doesnt fix it


how much $ is it worth

wrote:
wrote:
I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

probably the carbon pile lightning arrestor

you could offer to pay the phone company directly to fix the problem,
it will assure good workmanship and give you someone to complain too if
the repair doesnt fix it


how much $ is it worth
Thanks for telling me what it probably is. The phone company came out
about 6 years ago and said it couldn't be fixed. It lasted 6 years the
last time I fixed it. Now it's acting
up again.

A creative SNEAKY solution

If DSL is available in your area get it, so much faster than dial up
Plus talk on phone at same time. Around ghere its down to 20 bucks a
month

Best is phone comany will do complete upgrade free!

They need service to work so you remain a subscriber

wrote:
A creative SNEAKY solution

If DSL is available in your area get it, so much faster than dial up
Plus talk on phone at same time. Around ghere its down to 20 bucks a
month

Best is phone comany will do complete upgrade free!

They need service to work so you remain a subscriber

I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
wrote:
I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

probably the carbon pile lightning arrestor

you could offer to pay the phone company directly to fix the problem,
it will assure good workmanship and give you someone to complain too if
the repair doesnt fix it


how much $ is it worth
Thanks for telling me what it probably is. The phone company came out
about 6 years ago and said it couldn't be fixed. It lasted 6 years the
last time I fixed it. Now it's acting
up again.

That fixture is (effectively) your network interface and that should be
their problem.
They haven't used that technology in 30 years. Lean on them to replace it.

--
herb

Herb Stein wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
wrote:
I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

probably the carbon pile lightning arrestor

you could offer to pay the phone company directly to fix the problem,
it will assure good workmanship and give you someone to complain too if
the repair doesnt fix it


how much $ is it worth
Thanks for telling me what it probably is. The phone company came out
about 6 years ago and said it couldn't be fixed. It lasted 6 years the
last time I fixed it. Now it's acting
up again.

That fixture is (effectively) your network interface and that should be
their problem.
They haven't used that technology in 30 years. Lean on them to replace it.

--
herb


How do you get a small rodent or animal out of your A/C duct? Started
hearing it last night and it stopped. Now I can hear it again and soon
when it dies it will stink. We have
C/A and you can hear it at the vent cover. My cat won't stay away from
the vent. He
knows. This is a bit off topic but since I have you here and you
probably know whats
involved in gaining access to this critter.

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
A creative SNEAKY solution

If DSL is available in your area get it, so much faster than dial up
Plus talk on phone at same time. Around ghere its down to 20 bucks a
month

Best is phone comany will do complete upgrade free!

They need service to work so you remain a subscriber

I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.


The noise in the house wire will spoil the DSL speed anyway.

A telephone "punch board" is not much maybe $50 to 100 depending on how many
lines it needs to handle but you don't need to rewire all 8 apartments. You
only need to find your wire and bypass that POS telco box.

Have the phone company identify your line at the outside of the building.
Cut it right there and splice in a wire directly leading to your jacks. Cut
the other end of the abandoned wire inside your apartment leaving as little
as possible remaining connected. Better yet, wire in a completely new jack
connected to that wire only. Use quality wire and short run and you will
see improvement right away.

If you buy the wireline protection on your phone bill (or whatever they call
the inside wire service plan) then they will troubleshoot and fix your noise
for free. Mind you, they will not replace the old telco box either (or do
anything to the other 7 or more lines). They will take the easy and
reliable method I just explained.

In article . com,
wrote:

I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what.

The device is a protector dating to the early 1920s. That type was replaced
by a newer model in the early 1940s. It certainly qualifies as an ANTIQUE
protector. It is telco property. The protector is a grandfathered "demarc"
(demarcation point) - *NOT* a SNID (Standard Network Interface Device).

They are held in the junction box with a nut on each end.
If I tap on them or move them some it clears up the line.

That is a common issue when they are causing trouble or about to go open.

The phone company told me 8 years ago it's the
buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.

Nonsense. It is the PHONE COMPANY's responsibility to repair your line.
Harass them until they do. After x-period of time with no satisfaction, file
a complaint with your state's public utility commission. Inform your telco
that you have done so. They'll fix it then.

Can these things be bought?

No. The outdated protector should be replaced and an official Network
Interface installed. Keep at them and/or complain to the P.U.C. Good luck!
--

JR

wrote:
wrote:
A creative SNEAKY solution

If DSL is available in your area get it, so much faster than dial up
Plus talk on phone at same time. Around ghere its down to 20 bucks a
month

Best is phone comany will do complete upgrade free!

They need service to work so you remain a subscriber

I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.

did you try pricing DSL from another company? Like AOL has deals with
local phone companies for low cost DSL bundled with AOL.

you might try shopping around a bit.

since its been 8 years the phone companys policies may have changed in
regards to the interface.

around here every service call gets a new NID, so they can troubleshoot
your service when your not home

Herb Stein wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
wrote:
I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what. They
are held in the junction box with a nut on each end. If I tap on them
or move them some it clears up the line. The phone company told me 8
years ago it's the buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.
He won't do it since I am the only one that has problems with it. Sad
but true I still use dial up and when there is noise on the line the
internet won't work. Does anyone know this junction box i'm talking
about? Can these things be bought? Thanks

probably the carbon pile lightning arrestor

you could offer to pay the phone company directly to fix the problem,
it will assure good workmanship and give you someone to complain too if
the repair doesnt fix it


how much $ is it worth
Thanks for telling me what it probably is. The phone company came out
about 6 years ago and said it couldn't be fixed. It lasted 6 years the
last time I fixed it. Now it's acting
up again.

That fixture is (effectively) your network interface and that should be
their problem.
They haven't used that technology in 30 years. Lean on them to replace it.

--
herb


It's likely that the fixture *used* to be their network interface and
they cheated and installed a new NI on the exterior of the building
effectively orphaning their old crap and calling it "inside wiring".
Find the new NI outside and rewire your circuit directly to it bypassing
the abandoned junk.

Pete C.

wrote:
I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.

Is this what you have described?
http://www.inwap.com/inwap/chez/Phoneline.jpg

If so, this 30+ year old (obsolete) technology should be removed.
Best is to run a clean Cat5 wire from their new Network Interface
Device (NID) to a junction inside where all existing phone lines can
connect. Or even better, where possible, run a new Cat 5 wire to that
phone wall jack.

BTW, you wire must enter building within something like six inches of
the NID. Don't forget to create a drip loop before enters building.

This above obsolete device earths a phone line for transient
protection. That function (using superior technology) is now inside
the NID. Furthermore, this obsolete device will make DSL not possible.

Nothing magic about that obsolete protector. As it fails, it will
even create noise on POTS phones. Cut it out. Bypass it with new Cat5
wires that are even sold in Home Depot and Lowes).

Anything inside a building up to where your wire plugs into customer
side of that NID is your responsibility. And new wires must be Cat5 or
better. That obsolete transient protector is your responsibility.

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
wrote:

I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what.

The device is a protector dating to the early 1920s. That type was
replaced
by a newer model in the early 1940s. It certainly qualifies as an ANTIQUE
protector. It is telco property. The protector is a grandfathered
"demarc"
(demarcation point) - *NOT* a SNID (Standard Network Interface Device).

They are held in the junction box with a nut on each end.
If I tap on them or move them some it clears up the line.

That is a common issue when they are causing trouble or about to go open.

The phone company told me 8 years ago it's the
buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.

Nonsense. It is the PHONE COMPANY's responsibility to repair your line.
Harass them until they do. After x-period of time with no satisfaction,
file
a complaint with your state's public utility commission. Inform your
telco
that you have done so. They'll fix it then.

I think I've already mentioned that. The phone company has the
responsibility to replace it.

Can these things be bought?

No. The outdated protector should be replaced and an official Network
Interface installed. Keep at them and/or complain to the P.U.C. Good
luck!
--

JR

--
Herb

"w_tom" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.

Is this what you have described?
http://www.inwap.com/inwap/chez/Phoneline.jpg

If so, this 30+ year old (obsolete) technology should be removed.
Best is to run a clean Cat5 wire from their new Network Interface
Device (NID) to a junction inside where all existing phone lines can
connect. Or even better, where possible, run a new Cat 5 wire to that
phone wall jack.

BTW, you wire must enter building within something like six inches of
the NID. Don't forget to create a drip loop before enters building.

This above obsolete device earths a phone line for transient
protection. That function (using superior technology) is now inside
the NID. Furthermore, this obsolete device will make DSL not possible.

Nothing magic about that obsolete protector. As it fails, it will
even create noise on POTS phones. Cut it out. Bypass it with new Cat5
wires that are even sold in Home Depot and Lowes).

Anything inside a building up to where your wire plugs into customer
side of that NID is your responsibility. And new wires must be Cat5 or
better. That obsolete transient protector is your responsibility.

It is a RENTAL. The wires don't belong to the OP. He needs to lean on
landlord to get it replaced. Sounds like all the inside phone wiring needs
to get replace. Yeah, likely telco has placed a new demarc box on an outside
wall, and is just using the old inside demarc as a junction panel.

aem sends...

Good advice. It is the telephone company problem. Do not bypass this
device! It protects you against a lightning surge.

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

I live in a historic 8-plex built in 1937. Sometimes I have a noisy
line and the problem is in the junction box in the basement of the
building. The phone company has no parts for this box. For 8 apartments
it has 16 of these things that are about 5" long and a little bigger
around than a pencil. I don't know if they are capacitors or what.

The device is a protector dating to the early 1920s. That type was replaced
by a newer model in the early 1940s. It certainly qualifies as an ANTIQUE
protector. It is telco property. The protector is a grandfathered "demarc"
(demarcation point) - *NOT* a SNID (Standard Network Interface Device).

They are held in the junction box with a nut on each end.
If I tap on them or move them some it clears up the line.

That is a common issue when they are causing trouble or about to go open.

The phone company told me 8 years ago it's the
buildings owner responsibility to replace this box.

Nonsense. It is the PHONE COMPANY's responsibility to repair your line.
Harass them until they do. After x-period of time with no satisfaction, file
a complaint with your state's public utility commission. Inform your telco
that you have done so. They'll fix it then.

Can these things be bought?

No. The outdated protector should be replaced and an official Network
Interface installed. Keep at them and/or complain to the P.U.C. Good luck!
--

JR

The telephone company 'provided for free' surge protector is inside a
grey box call an NID or Network Interface. One side of that box is
labeled customer interface. Interior wire that plugs into that side of
box and all wires inside the house are responsibility of the home
owner. Phone company will do nothing to those wires except if hired to
fix or modify those wires for maybe $70 per call. Or if telco has been
paid a monthly service contract.

Anything after that NID is responsibility of the homeowner. FCC Part
68 defines this demarcation point - a point that should be no more than
30 cm beyond where interior wire exits the building.

An obsolete protector that is creating noise is responsibility of the
building owner and should be removed. It's function has been replaced
by a superior device inside NID.

wrote:
Good advice. It is the telephone company problem. Do not bypass this
device! It protects you against a lightning surge.

In article .com,
"w_tom" wrote:

An obsolete protector that is creating noise is responsibility
of the building owner

This is incorrect. Telco protectors are the responsibility of the telco.

and should be removed.

This is also incorrect and potentially dangerous. Without circuit protection,
the phone line and any equipment connected to it are vulnerable to voltage
surge damage and/or destruction.

It's function has been replaced
by a superior device inside NID.

If manipulating the obsolete protector "cleared-up" his trouble temporarily,
it has NOT been replaced - it is still being used.

If/when the telco replaces the old protector, they should install a Standard
Network Interface Device that usually includes a NEW protector. At that time,
the old, abandoned equipment SHOULD (note "should") be removed. Some
less-than-enthusiastic technicians simply abandon the old stuff "in place".
(They leave it mounted but it is disconnected.)
--

JR

In article .com,
" wrote:

around here every service call gets a new NID

Every service call? I can assure you that does NOT happen, particularly if
there ALREADY IS one.

On "every" service call where a NID is NOT present, we are SUPPOSED to install
one. Compliance with this requirement is sometimes poor, particularly if
there is no trouble with the old protector, the customer subscribes to an
inside wire maintenance plan (no charge for any visit) and/or the wind chill
is -40F.
--

JR

In article .com,
"w_tom" wrote:

wrote:
I know I should have DSL. It's about twice that expensive here for DSL.

Is this what you have described?
http://www.inwap.com/inwap/chez/Phoneline.jpg

If so, this 30+ year old (obsolete) technology should be removed.

Only if there is protection elsewhere.

Best is to run a clean Cat5 wire from their new Network Interface
Device (NID) to a junction inside where all existing phone lines can
connect. Or even better, where possible, run a new Cat 5 wire to that
phone wall jack.

Assuming a NID exists, and there are HUNDREDS of thousands of "grandfathered"
services that have not been upgraded, this is good advice.

BTW, you wire must enter building within something
like six inches of the NID.

This is incorrect. Any wire leaving a NID is CUSTOMER property. You can use
bailing wire and coat hangars if you like - and run it in ANY manner you like.

Don't forget to create a drip loop before enters building.

Good advice. If drilling IN from the outside, slant the bit UPWARDS to
prevent water from following the wire.

This above obsolete device earths a phone line for transient
protection. That function (using superior technology) is now inside
the NID. Furthermore, this obsolete device will make DSL not possible.

Nonsense. A properly functioning, old protector works PERFECTLY with DSL.

Nothing magic about that obsolete protector. As it fails, it will
even create noise on POTS phones.

This is EXTREMELY rare. Virtually ALL protectors cause NO trouble and quite
literally DO NOTHING until they close to ground with a large surge.

Cut it out.

Ensure there is protection elsewhere if you do.

new wires must be Cat5 or better.

Wrong. You can run POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) and DSL (Digital
Subscriber Line possibly slightly degraded) on bailing wire and coat hangars,
provided they are properly connected and insulated from each other and a
ground source.

I have always marveled that much new construction installs Category 5e Cable
to the phone jacks for POTS use. Cat 5 wire connected to a "Cat 2-1/2"
network is overkill. Cat 5 wire is NOT required for POTS - its for data. Old
phone wire works just fine for DSL, too. You'll notice DSL travels over a
flat phone cord that runs between the telephone outlet and the DSL modem. It
does NOT need data-rated cable.

That obsolete transient protector is your responsibility.

Wrong. It belongs to, and is the responsibility of, the telco.
--

JR

In article ,
"ameijers" wrote:

It is a RENTAL. The wires don't belong to the OP. He needs to lean on
landlord to get it replaced.

The telco considers their customer to be the "owner" of the wire. If there is
billable trouble with the wire in the rental, the CUSTOMER is billed - NOT the
landlord. It would be up to the customer to be reimbursed by the landlord for
any charges incurred.

It's VERY likely that the landlord will tell his tenant to "pound sand" and to
take care of the problem himself by dealing with the telco.
--

JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
"ameijers" wrote:

It is a RENTAL. The wires don't belong to the OP. He needs to lean on
landlord to get it replaced.

The telco considers their customer to be the "owner" of the wire. If there is
billable trouble with the wire in the rental, the CUSTOMER is billed - NOT the
landlord. It would be up to the customer to be reimbursed by the landlord for
any charges incurred.

It's VERY likely that the landlord will tell his tenant to "pound sand" and to
take care of the problem himself by dealing with the telco.
--

JR

I ordered DLS from Bellsouth. I told them it probably wouldn't work
well without replacing the ghetto junction box. They said if it had to
be replaced they would pay for it. I got DSL now and they replaced the
box. It's working great so far.